(2012 Scott sez: It’s another 2-in-1 set, although this a rarity where both versions are pretty good. The second one was written in 2009 so I won’t have anything to add to it. But first up, the version written live after the show…)
The Netcop Rant for Spring Stampede 1999
Live from Tacoma, Washington
Your hosts are the Usual Idiots.
Opening match: Blitzkrieg v. Juventud Guerrera.
Blitz has Al Snow's old Avatar costume tonight. Awesome opener, with the boys trading mat stuff and Juvy getting the first highspot with the tope con hilo. Blitz retaliates with his own tope, but Juvy dropkicks him in mid-air, and he takes a nasty fall to the floor. Juvy goes for the Driver, but they go into a complex reversal sequence that ends with Juvy hitting an inverted DDT for two. Juvy takes Blitz to the top and tries an inverted suplex off the top, but they fuck it up. Blitz goes for the sky twister, but Juvy moves. Then Juvy gets the MOTHERFUCKING KICKASS FINISHER TO END ALL FINISHERS, a Juvy Driver off the TOP ROPE! Wow. Wow. Wow. ****1/4 (I think I enjoyed that one.)
Hardcore Hak v. Bam Bam Bigelow.
They both bring plunder to the ring, and we get right into the garbage wrestling as Hak puts Bigelow on the table in the aisle and dives off the stagecoach, putting Bigelow through the table. Pretty impressive spot. We head to the ring and they hit each other with weapons. And, uh, yeah, that's about it. Good for what it was, but that's about it. ***1/2 (I’m pretty sure “good for what it was” doesn’t warrant ***1/2)
Scotty Riggs v. Mikey Whipwreck.
Hey, Scotty has a gimmick! He's the Narcissist II. This is your pretty standard 1st hour Thunder match. Mikey is doing some nice bumping, however. Scotty is SO Val Venis/Rick Martel/Rick Rude here, doing hip gyrations and being Mr. Arrogant. Crowd responds with a spontaneous "boring" chant. Loud one too. The FLYING FOREARM OF DOOM from Riggs finishes it. Yawn. ** (He should have stuck with being a pirate.)
Gonnad v. Disco Inferno.
Disco has the Urban Cowboy look today. Huge heel heat for Disco as he uses a modified version of the rolling clothesline and the crotch shake. Funny stuff. Standard 1st hour Nitro match follows. Rest, stall, dance, you know the routine. Gonnad hits Disco's own Chartbuster on him for the pin. Bleh. *1/2
Okay, the two matches I had budgeting to suck have sucked, so we're within budget.
Cruiserweight title match: Rey Mysterio Jr. v. Billy Kidman.
Great gymnastic sequence to start. Rey takes the BUMP WITH CHEESE AND BACON, getting backdropped to the floor and landing right on his side. Kidman hits a pescado for good measure. Kidman drops him on his throat and legdrops him over the railing. Rey smacks his head on the stairs on a flying headscissors on the floor. He gets in the ring and hits another couple of highspots to work the kinks out. I dunno, they just seem to be going through the motions here, doing an exhibition of spots. Kidman hits a shooting star press off the apron, mis-called by Tenay and corrected by Tony. Pretty boring resting sequence. Kidman hits a Pedigree but Rey pops up. Rey gets his killer bulldog for two. Kidman does his finishing sequence, but Rey pops up before the SSP and hits the top rope rana for the anticlimactic pin. The Nitro match was WAY better and the crowd response here showed it. **1/2
The Vanilla Midgets v. Raven & Saturn.
The Flock pulls out a ton of cool double-teams on Benoit to start. Raven gets triple-teamed by the Horsemen outside the ring and the Midgets work over Raven. Arn is jawing with the fans the whole time. Guess which team Charles Robinson favors. Fans completely turn on the Horsemen, booing them mercilessly. Well, I'll take heel heat over no heat. Saturn gets the hot tag and decks Anderson, which is a good sign for his healing. Malenko is just being a motherfucker here. Saturn goes for the DVD, but Benoit gets a german suplex, but a pier-six breaks out. Malenko gets the Cloverleaf on Saturn, but he escapes and hits the DVD. Benoit makes the save. Wild stuff. Saturn gets caught in the corner and double-teamed. Crowd is chanting "Horsemen suck" at various intervals. Malenko is being a mega-jerk, something he's very good at. Raven gets the hot tag (big pop) and cleans house. Big babyface reaction for the DROP TOEHOLD OF DOOM. Saturn goes for the tabledive on Malenko, but misses and goes through the table. Back in the ring, Raven gets the Evenflow on Malenko, and Arn casually walks into the ring (despite mild protests from Charles Robinson) and places a chair on top of Raven. Chris hits the swan dive onto the chair, sacrificing himself and doing a major bladejob for fun, and Malenko rolls on top for the pin. Wow, great match. ****1/2 (Every time I see Benoit doing that stuff now, I cringe a little more.)
US title tournament finals: Scott Steiner v. Booker T.
Scott walks around the ring drawing cheap heat before we start. If Ahmed Johnson and Scott Steiner were in the same jail cell, who would be the bitch? (Would you bet against Steiner?) Man, Scott should go to Memphis, he'd be huge there. (He can teach math there!) Pretty good match for Scott with an overbooked ending. Ref gets bumped and Booker goes through his ending sequence. Scott deliberately KOs the ref again, and hits the top rope rana. It gets two. Then, in a Randy Savage Memphis moment, he pulls an international object out of his tights and nails Booker with it during a suplex, and gets the pin and the US title. All the ref bumps weren't really necessary, but the match was good enough. ***
Kevin Nash v. Goldberg.
All I ask is that Nash jobs. Nash actually dominates for most of the match, then the ref gets bumped. Lex Luger nails Goldie with the chair, but when Nash goes for the powerbomb Goldberg counters with the Steve Richards testicular claw, then hits a vicious spear on Nash and Jackhammers him for the pin. Good for you Nash, take one for the company. That's all I wanted. **1/2
Four corners match, WCW World title match: Ric Flair v. Hulk Hogan v. Sting v. DDP.
Hoochie mama, check out Gorgeous George. Sting and DDP start, with Sting destroying DDP and Flair making the save. Flair and Hogan do a sequence next, with the WEIGHTLIFTING BELT OF DEATH making an appearance. Sting and DDP fight outside the ring meanwhile. Hulk does his thing and gets the legdrop, but Sting saves Flair. Now Flair runs through his offense on Hogan. Flair gets the figure-four while Sting and DDP fight outside again. DDP makes the save. Now it's the DDP and Hogan show, with Sting and Flair fighting outside the ring. DDP gets the ringpost figure-four (you wish, buddy) and Sting makes the save. Hogan gets helped back to the dressing room because he hurt his knee. Awwwww, poor baby. Eric the Grey makes an appearance for some reason. Now we get a Sting-Flair sequence that goes nowhere, then a Sting-DDP sequence. This is pretty disjointed. Now Sting and Flair do their bit, and we of course work in the triple sleeper spot. Sting hulks up and gets the deathlock on Flair, but DDP makes the save. Sting is looking good here. Flair gives Sting two blatant ballshots and slaps on the figure-four. Savage drags them to the center of the ring...and drops the big elbow on Flair! Eh? DDP hits the Diamond Cutter...AND GETS THE PIN?????? What the holy flying fuck was that? WCW World champion DDP? What are they thinking? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?!? (And what were they thinking the other two times, while we’re at it?) Can't really rate it, it was too weird.
The Bottom Line: What a weird-ass ending to an otherwise great show. There's absolutely no way DDP's title reign lasts beyond tomorrow night. (It did. I forget how the sequence went from there, but it ended up gong DDP, Sting, DDP, and then something-something Nash, Savage, Hogan again. This was largely where I gave up on WCW and stopped paying attention to who was champion. Because once you’ve put the belt on DDP, you might as well pack it in anyway. Nothing against DDP, who’s a great guy and always works hard, but he was just never World champion level.) Oh well, dumb booking aside, this was still easily the best show of the year so far. See what a little forethought can do? Thumbs way up.
The SmarK Retro Rant for WCW Spring Stampede 99
- Live from Tacoma, WA
- Your hosts are Tony, Bobby and Mike.
Juventud Guerrera v. Blitzkrieg
Winner of this gets a title shot on Nitro. Blitz was an odd story of someone who came in, got over, and then got out of the business without getting screwed over or injured. They trade hammerlocks to start and Juvy takes him down with a cradle for two. Blitz tries to work the leg, but Juvy reverses into another cradle for two. Blitz with a headlock and they do an acrobatic sequence off that, which leads to a backbreaker from Blitz for two. Another try is reversed into a headscissors by Juvy, but Blitz hits him with a handspring elbow in the corner and slugs away. Juvy rams him into the turnbuckles to break it up and springboards in with a dropkick that gets crazy hangtime. Blitz bails and Juvy follows with the tope con hilo. Back in, Juvy with a brainbuster for two and he hooks him in the bow-and-arrow, but Blitz falls on top for two. Blitz with a spinkick series and he dropkicks Juvy into the corner and out, but Juvy walks away from the highspot attempt and then counters a second one with a dropkick. Nice bit of sneaky ring vet from Juventud there. Back in, Blitz reverses a tilt-a-whirl to put Juvy on the floor again, and this time Blitz flattens him with a springboard moonsault. Back in, they reverse DDT attempts until Juvy gets an inverted DDT for two. To the top, where Blitz almost pulls off an amazing inverted DDT reversal in mid-air, but still gets most of it. Sky Twister misses, but the Drunk Driver is reversed to a small package for two. Back to the top and Blitz gets a victory roll from the top for two. Back up, but this time Juvy spikes him with the Drunk Driver to finish at 11:10. This was just all crazy offense with both guys letting it hang out. ****
Hak v. Bam Bam Bigelow
Sandman was such a bizarre signing for WCW and he never really fit in. They brawl immediately at the entranceway and Hak puts Bigelow through a table with a somersault off the wagon. Sure, why not? Bigelow barely even sells it and pounds on Hak in response, dragging him back to ringside while Chastity throws the crap into the ring. I don't remember her at all. Tony actually calls it "gimmicks" which is a bit too fourth wall for me in the pre-Russo era. Into the ring, Hak hits Bigelow with a trash can, and Tony points out that trash cans have give and don't really do much damage, despite the impressive sound it makes. Secrets of Pro Wrestling Revealed…by Tony Schiavone! Bigelow beats on him with a broom and they do the world's worst suplex reversal spot. Hak brings a ladder into the ring and does some damage with that, then tosses a table and a railing into the ring. Tony notes that he likes a man who brings his own safety railing into the match. Tony can be pretty funny, actually. Hak tries to climb the ladder, but Bigelow yanks him through the conveniently placed table outside, and then back in he whips Hak into the ladder. Hak puts Bigelow onto his railing and tries the legdrop off the top, but misses and gets nothing but railing. Chastity brings the fire extinguisher in, but Bam Bam sprays her right back, which allows Hak to hit the White Russian legsweep onto the railing. They head up and Bigelow finishes with Greetings from Asbury Park off the top, through the table, at 11:15. The usual trainwreck "Hardcore" match, entertaining while it lasts but immediately forgotten. ***
Scotty Riggs v. Mikey Whipwreck
Riggs controls with armdrags while telling us how attractive he is, apparently hoping for the same career path as Buff Bagwell. I liked the pirate gimmick better. Mikey slugs away in the corner and puts him down with a clothesline, sending Riggs to the floor for some hammy selling. Mikey sends him back in and hits a guillotine legdrop, and Riggs bails again. Mikey follows with a rana to the floor, but misses another legdrop and gets swatted into the railing. Back in, Riggs stops to showboat and gets two. Riggs chokes him out as the crowd completely turns on the match (for good reason, it's awful) and Riggs gets two. Mikey with a missile dropkick for two, and a legsweep for two. Criss-cross and Riggs finishes with a flying forearm at 7:00. I'm shocked that this didn't propel Riggs into World title contention. DUD
Konnan v. Disco Inferno
Konnan calls Disco a "straight up strawberry" so I guess he's too hip for me to understand. Disco lays him out with a clothesline, probably for the strawberry line, but Konnan bulldogs him into the seated dropkick. Disco catches him with an elbow out of the corner and chokes away, but Konnan comes back with a flying armdrag. Disco hits the chinlock and gets a neckbreaker for two, and goes back to the chinlock. Elbow gets two and we're back to the chinlock, but Konnan fights out and gets tossed. Back in, more chinlockery, but Disco misses another elbow and Konnan comes back. Cradle DDT gets two. Disco with a neckbreaker for two. He blocks the carpet muncher, but Konnan hits him with a stunner and gets the pin at 9:15. Disco was developing an interesting star quality around this time thanks to his totally unwarranted relationship with the Wolfpac, but he only had so much to offer. **
WCW Cruiserweight title: Rey Mysterio v. Billy Kidman
Wait, it's some guy without a mask claiming to be Rey Mysterio! What kind of shenanigans is this? Rey and Kidman were tag champs at this point in yet another thing I don't remember at all. They do an acrobatic sequence to start and end up on the floor, where Kidman slingshots off the railing for a legdrop. Back in, that gets two. Rey puts him on the floor with a headscissors, follows with a moonsault off the apron, and then gets another headscissors off the railing. Back in, a springboard senton gets two. Lionsault gets two. Rey tries another headscissors, but Kidman blocks with a running powerbomb and gets two. Backbreaker into a backdrop suplex gets two and the crowd is shockingly dead for all this. BK Bomb gets two. He tosses Rey and follows with a shooting star press off the apron, and the crowd won't even pop for that. Back in, Kidman goes up and gets dropkicked coming down, and Rey gets two. Top rope bulldog gets two. Leg lariat sets up a powerbomb, but Kidman backdrops out. Powerslam gets two as this just gets worse by the minute and I don't even know why. Kidman finally just goes to the chinlock as everyone just looks frustrated, but Rey clotheslines him out. The announcers are speculating that a head shot suffered by Rey earlier might be affecting things, so even they're picking up on the crossed wires here. Back in, Rey goes up and they collide on the way down, which gives Kidman two. And we're back to the chinlock. Rey charges and hits the post, but counters a powerbomb with a faceplant for two. Kidman hits a Pedigree (which gets the only big pop of the match thus far) and goes up with a sunset flip for two. Blind charge hits boot and Rey gets the top rope bulldog for two. Kidman with his own bulldog for two. And now finally they're clicking as they trade reversals and Rey gets a guillotine legdrop and a standing moonsault for two. Rey tries a powerbomb, but you can't powerbomb Kidman and he goes up. Shooting Star is blocked by a shot to the nuts and Rey brings him down with a rana for the pin at 15:30. They fought through the suck and kept pushing until they got it over, but there was a lot of suck to fight through. ***1/4
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko v. Raven & Saturn
There is some gigantic buzz from the crowd here. Saturn takes Benoit down to start and whips him into Malenko on the floor, and back in Raven gets a rebound clothesline for two. Front suplex into a flying Saturn splash gets two. Saturn drop toehold into a Raven elbow follows, but Benoit dropkicks Raven to the floor so that AA can lays the boots on him. Back in, the Horsemen get a double spinebuster on Raven and Malenko adds a suplex for two. Raven with a small package, but Benoit is distracting the ref and he breaks it up with a backdrop suplex on Raven for two. The cool thing here is that Horsemen are supposed to be faces, but the crowd went for Raven instead so they instantly adjust and turn into total assholes. Dean pounds away in the corner and adds a corner clothesline, and Benoit hits his own from the apron, but Raven blocks a charge with a boot. Hot tag to Saturn and he cleans house and slugs away on Benoit in the corner, but Dean clobbers him from behind. He puts Saturn on top, but Raven catches him from behind and they hit a Doomsday Device. Awesome sequence sees Benoit breaking it up with a german suplex, then Raven DDT'ing Benoit, and Malenko putting Saturn into the Cloverleaf. Saturn makes the ropes and comes back with the Death Valley Driver, but Benoit breaks it up with the diving headbutt to give Malenko two. Benoit chops Saturn down as he's weirdo-in-peril, and a backbreaker gets two. Horsemen double-team in the corner and Dean drops a knee for two. Sleeper and he gets the hooks in, but Raven breaks it up so Benoit boots Raven out of the ring again and covers Saturn for two. Northern lights suplex gets two. Saturn bails and Dean stomps away on the floor, and back in Saturn evades a charge and gets a sunset flip on Benoit for two. Dean takes him down with a chinlock, but Saturn fights up for the hot tag to Raven. He clotheslines Malenko out and retrieves a chair for the DROP TOEHOLD OF DOOM, but Saturn misses a splash outside and puts himself through a table. In the ring, Malenko hits Raven with the chair, but Raven DDTs him in turn. Arn sneaks in and puts the chair on Raven's head, allowing Benoit to hit the diving headbutt onto the chair and put Malenko on top for the pin at 14:15. Classic tag action here with tons of crazy 80s-style double-teams and cheating from the Horsemen. ****1/4
US title tournament final: Scott Steiner v. Booker T
Booker was TV champ at this point, which kind of gives away the finish even if it wasn't already blindingly obvious. Steiner does the mega-stall to start, threatening random ringside fans with whatever acts of violence come to mind, and we finally get contact 3:00 in. Steiner wrestles Booker to the mat, but Booker puts him on the floor with an armdrag. Back in, Booker with the sidekick and he tosses Steiner again and follows with a clothesline off the apron, and they brawl on the floor. Back in, Booker blocks a charge with a boot and slugs away on the mat, then follows with a corner clothesline. He pounds on Steiner in the corner, but gets dropped on the top rope as a result and hits the floor. Back in, Steiner pounds him in the corner and a backbreaker gets two. He stops to choke the ref down and goes low on Booker pretty blatantly as this just grinds to a halt. Steiner with a bearhug, but Booker comes back with a DDT and the ref is bumped. Booker with the axe kick and flapjack, but there's no ref. And the ref recovers, only to get bumped again. Booker goes up and Steiner brings him down with the rana off the top for two. Steiner gets an international object and blocks a suplex attempt by hitting Booker with it, and that finally gives him the US title at 15:55. Steiner was awful even at this point, but they were gonna push him until he got over or the company died as a result, whichever came first. *1/2
Goldberg v. Kevin Nash
Nash pounds him with knees in the corner to start and the Nash Choke, then a low blow thanks to some distraction by Elizabeth. Short clothesline gets two. Sideslam gets two. More choking from Nash, but the big boot misses and Goldberg puts him down with a shoulderblock. Suplex and Goldberg slugs Nash down, but the spear hits the ref by mistake. Lex Luger pops in with a chairshot on Goldberg and Nash tries to finish, but Goldberg uses the Testicular Claw to block. Spear and Jackhammer ends it quickly at 7:41. That's about the cleanest job you'll ever see Nash do. *1/2
WCW World title: Ric Flair v. Hulk Hogan v. Sting v. DDP
Randy Savage is the special ref here to really add to the star power and make the inclusion of DDP all the more puzzling at the time. Unless they were gonna…nah, that'd be silly. Big slugfest to start and Hogan & Flair hit the floor while Sting quickly gets DDP in the Scorpion Deathlock, but he makes the ropes. DDP grabs a headlock and gets a neckbreaker for two, but Sting clotheslines him and then adds another one off the top. Stinger splash gets two. Everyone heads back in and Sting slams Flair off the top, then brawls out with DDP. Flair chops away on Hulk in the corner, but Hulk fires back with the belt and backdrops him. Hulk with the corner clothesline for the Flair Flop, and he no-sells the chops. Big boot and legdrop get two. Flair clips him while Sting & DDP brawl outside again, and gets the figure-four. DDP comes back in to break it up and he clotheslines Flair out, and everyone brawls outside again. DDP uses a ringpost figure-four on Hogan, and Hulk gets escorted out by the trainers. So back in the ring, Sting pounds away on Flair in the corner as they do an abbreviated version of their usual thing, leading to DDP clotheslining Sting for two. Elbow gets two. Flair heads back in, so DDP clotheslines him for two as well. Sting comes back with a Stinger splash and bulldogs DDP to escape a Diamond Cutter, but DDP gets a tombstone for two. Sting comes back with a superplex on Flair for two. Flair with a backdrop suplex for two. This thing is really dragging at this point. Flair with a sleeper, which sets up DDP for a sleeper of his own, a spot that always gets a big pop but which I hate nonetheless. DDP and Flair double-team Sting, but he fights back with a double clothesline on them and slugs them down. Stinger splash and Scorpion deathlock for Flair, but DDP breaks it up. Sting hits him with the Deathdrop for two, but Flair saves and abuses Sting's groinal area. Figure-four follows, but Sting makes the ropes. Savage at this point decides to take matters into his own hands and drops the big elbow on Flair to break it up. DDP is the last man standing, and it's Diamond Cutter for Flair and we have one of the most unlikely World champions ever at 17:26. That one turned out to be a horrible decision. This was really quite dull and disjointed a lot of the time and featured too much "two guys fight out and the other two guys fight in the ring" stuff to live up the pedigree that it's somehow acquired over the years. **3/4
The Pulse
Disappointing main event aside, this was a hell of a show for most of the way and is well worth seeking out, even though it's probably never going to air on WWE's TV system ever again. Strongly recommended.
What really hurt DDP was the fact that he was transitioning into a nonsensical heel turn at the time of his title win. Had he remained a no-nonsense face like he was all of 97 and 98 it might have worked out better.
ReplyDeleteSo what happened to Blitzkrieg, anyway? Dude was doing some mind blowing shit (for the time) and then just disappeared one day. Also, what nationality was he?
ReplyDeleteDDP was good and easily merited a run with the belt. You just said Saturn in the 98 Stampede review would have had to have been a Greek god to "carry" Goldberg to ***. DDP carried him to better than that twice. He was good on the microphone, had the most over finisher in wrestling at the time (other than the Stunner), had an easily identifiable and super over hand gesture, and had good matches with almost everyone he was in the ring with.
ReplyDeleteI've always thought you were unfair to DDP, Scott. First off, this is the company that had Arquette and Vince Russo as champions...second, DDP was over and a good worker. Is he a guy who clearly had to win the title, no. But I really don't think of DDP as the go to for "bad champion". There are others I'd go to even discounting Russo, McMahon, and Arquette.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you.
ReplyDeleteNitro's ratings tanked after DDP won the title, and they never recovered. That's not to say it's DDP's fault, but they shouldn't have put the title on him.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Ross#World_Championship_Wrestling_.281999.29
ReplyDeleteBut that DOES say it's his fault. If it's not his fault then it's not a reason to not put the title on him. And let's be honest...you can't honestly blame DDP. Nitro was in enormous trouble before that and WCW was making tons of bad decisions.
ReplyDeleteI can maybe see it at the time, when title changes were a little rarer, but looking at it from a modern perspective, where random midcarders win world titles because it's a Sunday, is DDP seriously the go to guy for absolute shock that anyone would put a title on him? He was likeable, over, solid in the ring (not amazing but solid and certainly better than most of WCW's main eventers at the time) and a hard worker. Again, not saying he was a no brainer obvious choice but I really don't see how he was that horrific of a choice, especially looking at it from a present day perspective. And WCW was plummeting regardless of who was champ at that point, short of getting Steve Austin to come back.
I never got your distaste for DDP as champ. He was as over and credible as anyone else in WCW. He went toe to toe with every main eventer and was always presented as being on an equal level as those guys.
ReplyDeleteI think Meltzer said that Blitzkrieg was the only WON Rookie of the Year winner who was completely out of the wrestling business by the time the votes were tabulated.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but those last three are clearly freakshow champions only intended as shock value. DDP was a guy who they legitimately were trying to push as a real main eventer, but the problem was that he never got beat anyone on the way to the title. He won the Wargames atrocity by pinning, what, Stevie Ray? Spent the next few months fucking around in the midcard, then suddenly got the World title from Hulk Hogan by pinning Ric Flair. Nothing against DDP, booking was clearly the problem, but they tried and failed miserably and no one was going to buy him at that level no matter how many times they put the belt on him for being friends with Bischoff.
ReplyDeletePulling off a diving headbutt on a steel chair is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Seriously, what the hell was Benoit thinking?
ReplyDeleteI used to think that there HAD to be some way that Benoit was pulling off the diving headbutt yet still protecting himself from the full impact. The more I rewatch his matches now, the more I realize that he truly was crazy and was taking the full brunt of those blows.
ReplyDeleteDDP was fine as a World Title level contender. The problem was, they gave it to him a year or two too late for it to matter. Had he been the guy to take the belt off Hogan in Luger's place that probably would've meant that much more because he had all the momentum in the world at that point and that's another new guy you just made. By the time he got it, it was just, "What? Really? DDP? Are you serious?" because he was just another guy on the roster at that point. The heel turn didn't help. The Jersey Triad screamed midcard gimmick.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Scott, he won the title FROM Flair in this match. Flair won the belt from Hogan at Uncensored the month before, causing the double turn.
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't make you any less right, but since he actually did pin the champion in the match, I guess there's that, despite it being the wrong call.
Funny story: my best friend in High School actually quite watching wrestling for a few months because DDP (who we both hated- he has this skeevy over-eager trashy aura that we both picked up on and hated) won the championship, all because he promised that he would quit watching wrestling forever if DDP won the match.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, DDP is a weird one for me. I hated every part of him as a kid (and this was BEFORE I knew he was Bischoff's pal), and only warmed up to him years later, when I was willing to admit he busted his ass and didn't burn too many people on his way out like others did. I can admire his handful of great matches, but for the most part he was a midcarder who had a rocket attached to his ass with a finisher that was pushed like the DDT was, and so it was near-IMPOSSIBLE for him to not find success that way.
DDP is the only guy who turned down the NWO at the absolute height of their popularity -- and actually seemed cool for doing it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe had they taken that same path with Steiner, Jericho, Giant, Benoit or anyone else, it could have worked too, but he was the guy and it worked on me.
DDP saying no to Hall and Nash made him legit in that era. Of course, this world title win came a long time after that, but, to me, DDP became a main event level threat for being the only guy in that position to do it.
And I have to add that I became a fan of DDP for one moment that isn't even that one. When he put on the La Parka suit to beat Randy Savage on Nitro, it was - and remains - my favorite Nitro moment of all time.
I'll even punch that one up on Youtube every now and then because it was SO perfect.
I liked DDP as champion. He had a great feud against Macho Man, was headlining Halloween Havoc against Goldberg and he was a WCW original and still someone new in the main evet scene.
ReplyDeleteI mean, it was 1999 and while WWF had new top guys like Austin, Rock, Mankind and HHH, WCW still had Hogan, Nash, Savage, Sting and Flair in their main events.
sorry, but as this thread indicates there were obviously at least some people who bought into it.
ReplyDeleteCount me in on the "Page was fine as champ" group. Friendship with Bitchoff aside, he worked his ass off, was over, had a finisher so killer it was suspected of a triple homicide in 99.....that's a guy you roll the dice with as champ and see if people respond.
ReplyDeleteGranted, they didn't respond (ratings went in the shitter with Page as champ) and they gave him 2 more runs, but that's another thread
I wouldn't say Booker didn't earn it. They just decided to randomly pull him out of the midcard and put the belt on him. The guy busted his ass for years carrying deadweight in Stevie Ray, carved out a nice little niche in the midcard, and helped to make a lot of other guys look great in the process. It wasn't his fault the company didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I think DDP's reign as champ was tanked by the fact they were doing crap like changing the title twice in one night.
ReplyDeleteThey had a perfect way for him to instantly become a threat. That match with Sting on Nitro, easily the greatest match in Nitro history, and one of the best WCW title matches ever. He should have gone clean over Sting, and bam, awesome match, awesome victory, he's a threat. DDP is still the only guy to have a fantastic one-on-one match with Goldberg. He could have gone and worked with anyone, creating great matches, and feuds, if they just would have fucking let him.
See, I didn't watch WCW (can't remember it being on in the UK as much as WWE), so my first impression of Booker T was during the Invasion angle. Consequently, I completely bought him as a main event star - no idea of his long history of being in the midcard.
ReplyDeleteJust goes to show that if you book someone like a star they'll look like a star. Something the WWE almost always fails to realise.
DDP was okay as champ and like #50 on the list of reasons why WCW started its descent to death. But he just shouldn't have been champion....they had better options.
ReplyDeleteThis is like the last great WCW show before the summer of 1999 really f'ed things up to the point Russo was brought in
I'm surprised he's the only acrobat that ever got into wrestling, you'd think that'd be a natural. He also bequeathed the Blitzkrieg gimmick to Jack Evans, so he still busts that out once in a while.
ReplyDeleteThey built Booker up pretty good going into his title run, but it came right on the heels of the stupid "losing the rights to the letter T" angle (but before the atrocity that was the rebirth of GI Bro) and it was a little jarring. But it was nice to see Booker work his way up to main event level, considering only a few years before it was such a shock when he won the TV title because he was a tag team wrestler.
ReplyDeleteI know I'm nitpicking here, but one of my biggest Scott Keith pet peeves is the idea that Scotty Riggs did a pirate gimmick. He wore an eye patch because he supposedly lost an eye or something when Raven drop toeholded him onto a chair, he was never supposed to be an actual pirate. I can never tell if that's supposed to be sarcastic, but the point stands.
ReplyDeleteI also think DDP was a decent champion. I always liked him because he was probably the only guy in the WCW main event scene that had that gritty, everyman appeal that was so successful in getting Austin over. DDP was just WCW's low-rent Austin.
''Hak hits Bigelow with a trash can, and Tony points out that trash cans have give and don't really do much damage, despite the impressive sound it makes. ''God I remember and hated when Tony had to commentate hardcore matches and would just laugh his arse off when the wrestlers were hitting each other with stuff.
ReplyDeleteWhen he came to WWF he was a main eventer, but when he won the title it was like: WTF? Booker T is WCW Champion?
ReplyDeleteThis must have slipped my mind, but HERE is the payoff for Starrcade '98! Goldberg beat Hall in January and then crushed Nash in April (he tore his arm inbetween). He just never got Hogan and the belt in the payoff. Ah well.
ReplyDeleteThat match was apparently the last time WCW won the head to head with the WWF and it deserved to.
ReplyDeleteWill agree with others that a year or two before this, a short DDP title reign would have worked, and the crowd would have ate it up. Remember the pop when he slipped out of the Jackhammer and hit the Diamond Cutter on Goldberg at HH '98?
ReplyDeleteI remember watching this at a sports bar in Atlanta at the time and being pleasantly surprised by how good it was. It was especially good considering that I had all but given up on WCW after the post-Starrcade run, culminating in that 3-hour Nitro where the first hour included absolutely no wrestling.
ReplyDeleteHave to agree with Scott on DDP. His heat had dissipated after the heel turn. He arguably had been on a main event level prior to this and was a legit challenger to Goldberg just a few months earlier (the last Nitro to win in the ratings war was the replay of the Goldber-Page main event at Halloween Havoc). But he had sort of faded after that, and by the time of this ppv his participation was seen as a bit of a joke.
I never saw the problem with DDP as champ. He was the most over face in the promotion, a good majority of fans wanted to see him as champ, so they (in a very un-WCW like move) gave him the belt.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I would think he has to hold the record for healthiest former pro wrestler out there today, but to leave to work with computers? That's just weird.
ReplyDeleteBy "that 3-hour Nitro" do you mean "all 3 hour Nitros"? I think that was a common thing in the 3 hour era. Or if they did have matches there'd just be one inconsequential lucha match or something to fill 5 minutes. That used to infuriate me because, as a Raw viewer even in the leaner times, that 8 o'clock hour of NItro was all I would watch and it was like they weren't even trying. I think the idea was to bait people in to watch the next hour or two to see the actual wrestling, but an hour of boring spinning of wheels as far as storylines basically just meant there was no chance anyone would be interested in the next 2 hours.
ReplyDeleteJay Ross was still wrestling up till 2003 if I'm not mistaken so Meltzer is wrong there. He was semi-retired though.
ReplyDeleteCount me among those who vehemently disagree with Scott's take on DDP as World Champ. In an age when fucking Miz headlines a Wrestlemania as CHAMP in '11, Scott doesn't really nail WWE for that but DDP as WCW champ back then and THAT is an atrocity? DDP was never a joke in WCW as a worker (as booker, yes) but he was in WWE because Vince's ego and immaturity at the time wouldn't let a former WCW guy get over as a serious contender. Taker was a jerk to DDP too for not willing to sell so much as a shove for him.
ReplyDeleteYou really can't justify DDP's reign by pointing out a guy like the Miz because the circumstances couldn't be more different. WCW was fighting for their lives and putting the title on another 40+ year old who was past his expiration date. Giving DDP a 2 week title run in 98 when he was hot wouldn't have been a bad idea. Another instance of WCW being late to the party as usual.
ReplyDeleteNitro's first hour was basically Larry Zybszko trying to put himself over during nWo 20 minute promos week after week.
ReplyDeleteAs dumb as the "losing the rights to the letter T" angle and GI Bro was, Booker's momentum only halted when Vince refused to book him strong against WWE in the Invasion angle and when Rock completely buried him with his promo on him purposely getting his name wrong and claiming he never heard of him.
ReplyDeleteStill can't believe WCW signed Mikey Whipwreck and put him on national TV.
ReplyDeleteActually, I can justify DDP's reign by pointing out the Miz because I'm comparing them both as serious draws and taking them at face value. WCW was fighting for their lives but their ratings at that point were around what WWE's ratings were when Miz was champ. Also, I'd rather see a 40+ year old DDP as champ than Miz as champ oo, Randy Orton as champ.
ReplyDeleteMiz deserved his title run as much as DDP did.
ReplyDeleteRatings took a giant nosedive when DDP became champ and they never recovered. For Miz's reign to be comparable to DDP, WWE's ratings would have had to drop to Impact levels.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but you're also ignoring several factors at play during that nosedive you're mentioning, such as WWE's rise and the mess surrounding WCW that was bigger than the competent wrestlers having to work through that mess.
ReplyDeleteIn what way did Miz deserve his reign? You have a better shot justifying high gas prices than that one.
ReplyDeleteLike DDP he busted his ass to improve. Hell even Dave Meltzer agrees with me since he twice put him in "Most Improved" catagory for 2007 and 2008. Plus he's great on the mic. As for his toughness, the whole point of his character should have been that he WASN'T tough. As much as we complain about WWE booking most of their heels as chickenshit, Miz was perfect for that role. He should have won nearly every title defense by countout or DQ.
ReplyDeleteThat's my point though. WCW was insane to put the title on DDP as a counter to what WWE was doing at the time. DDP was part of that group that people just didn't want to see anymore. And if WWE had serious competition right now, now way Miz gets to headline a WM, let alone a world title run.
ReplyDeleteDDP should have gotten a title run in 98 coming off his series with Savage. Instead of the celebrity matches, they should have ran DDP/Hogan and have them trade title wins leading to Hogan jobbing it to Goldberg. Waiting til 99 was way too long.
Yeah, he improved but to be a World Champ? Hell no, in my opinion. He's the least convincing regular wrestler to have EVER won a World Title, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying but my point is that WCW was in such a mess, it didn't matter who you put the World Title on during that time, the ratings were still going to nosedive because of the terrible organization
ReplyDeleteExactly. Even though it was his first title, it signaled that more of the same was coming and wrestling fans were tired of it. They needed to something radical instead of the status quo.
ReplyDeleteSee I felt like he seemed like a bigger deal once he got to WWE. He wasn't on the winning end of the Invasion, but afterward he was feuding with Austin and Rock, and got over pretty well with the spinaroonie and "Sucka" and the like.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, I couldn't reply to your post below, so I'm doing it here, cultstatus. I didn't feel DDP's first title reign was the status quo just that it was long overdue.
ReplyDeleteThing is, Austin and Rock never put him over, especially Rock who went out of his way to try to dismiss Booker as a major player. The "sucka" thing was something Booker already had going for him in WCW and had nothing to do with WWE's helping.
ReplyDeleteI too liked DDP and am glad he got his moment in the sun with the title.
ReplyDeleteAs far as how it impacted business, it is hard to say and I can see an argument being made either way.
I don't think it was a move that would have offended WCW fans at the time, because it was a relatively fresh face getting a title that also happened to be really over.
Perhaps it was 'the final straw' though for those fans that split time watching WWF and WCW though. It does seem that the WWF (at least at that time) captured the audience that was fragmenting off of WCW, as their ratings seemed to rise as steadily as WCW fell. In the end though, I think putting the title on DDP in 1999 was very
analogous to Luger finally getting the belt in 1991 -- it was already
too late, the wheels had fallen off and a free-fall was going to be
eminent. At that point, I think you could only do things to soften that
blow, which clearly WCW had no clue of how to do that by that point. The switch to a 'Crash TV Lite' format hastened their death though, I think.
You know, looking back it is quite bizarre to me, because minus the atmosphere, RAW was pretty awful at this point too and with WrestleCrap like "The Higher Power" on the horizon it was going to be a long summer. It's crazy to think that the WWF was rolling along, setting record ratings with angle-heavy Crash TV shows, littered with bad two-minute matches and very few talented wrestlers. They were basically beating WCW into the ground with good booking and hype and WCW's counter was to try and regurgitate that formula, but obviously nobody can do those two things as well as Vince when he is on his game.
and that of course would have nothing to do with hogan transitioning into a baby face that no one cared about other than sarcastically cheering with your drunk buddies.
ReplyDeletethose ratings were already dropping. the ddp title run also coincided with a couple other events. Face Hogan on the top wrestling Flair and Goldberg disappearing for 2 months to film a movie. I've never been one to buy the whole "one guy is a draw, one guy isn't" thing and I feel the same way about ratings. A look at quarterlies throughout the Monday Night Wars will show you some bizarre numbers where guys would pop huge ratings with midcard matches. There was sometimes no rhyme or reason to it. Ratings for an entire show however need to be put on the entire crew and the booking, particularly when your champion isn't even being pushed as the main event because Face hogan is your main eventer.
ReplyDeleteand it was treated as an afterthought. You still had him dabbling with Bam Bam at the same time he should have been totally focused on the NWO. Beating Hall in January made sense, although they may have wanted to drag it out longer, but since he stopped focusing on the NWo after that, the match against Nash in April meant nothing. And now for the less polite part of my post.
ReplyDeleteHE DID NOT TEAR HIS FUCKING ARM THEN!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST GO TO WIKIPEDIA AND LOOK UP GOLDBERG. IT WAS ATLEAST A YEAR LATE. HE FILMED A STUPID MOVIE IN THE LATE SPRING/EARLY SUMMER. HE WRESTLED BAM BAM IN FEBRUARY AT SUPERBRAWL.
Sorry but I keep seeing this pushed because Kevin Nash tried to push it on a shoot tape to cover up his sorry ass booking that shunted goldberg down the card, killed the payoff for his loss and put Hogan back at the top again and I've seen you in particular mention it on two different threads.
Less convincing than Mark Henry?
ReplyDeleteI want Blitzkrieg back.
ReplyDelete:(
JBL is the ultimate guy for the plucked from nowhere to be champ category. I think the fans WCW still had in 2000 did buy Booker T because they had seen the guy for years and seen how hard he worked, how had been a tag champ many times, worked his way up, etc. Not sure I get the Bret Hart reference. Bret won his first world title in 92 after being IC champ and main eventing Summerslam 92. he then main evented WM9, won the KOTR in the summer, and won the belt back at WM10. Now he certainly wandered in mid card wilderness after he dropped the belt to Backlund until he got the belt back against Diesel, but it could be argue that after he lost to Backlund his career was never the same until his heel turn and formation of the Hart foundation. After meandering the in the mid card, he had a lame duck run as champ as he was set up as fodder for HBK to realize his child dream. Then he took time off, came back and got a win over a guy who pretty much a midcarder at that point in Austin, got ridiculed by the announcing crew and asked to job to guys like HHH to "show he was one of the boys" all while having to "whine" so that the fans would hate him. But Bret was never IMO an out of nowhere champ. As someone who started watching in 84 and watched bret's every WWF step, it was odd for me to think of him as world champ, but when you look logically at his career pattern, his win over Flair in Saskatoon was not a huge shock. A bigger shock than some, but in the realm of DDP, JBL, etc.
ReplyDeleteI agree he got the belt a little too late for it to really matter. He would have been a good champion early to mid 1998. That being said I don't thing he was a bad champion and certainly WCW was in truoble for numerous other reasons. I was more pissed off around this time The 4 Horsemen were dismantled right after a cool heel turn. That tag match kicks ass.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you thought it was awesome at the time like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how giving a relatively new star, who's both young and over a world title reign is ever a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe Goldberg had to tear his arm just when he was about to tear through the nWo, what a fuckup on his part.
ReplyDeleteWCW had two low-rent Austin's, Goldberg and DDP.
ReplyDeleteThen you also fail to see the obvious lack of in-ring talent the Miz has.
ReplyDeleteStuart_Chatrock, YES he is MUCH less convincing than Mark Henry, a guy who's gimmick is "the strongest man in the world" and has improved a great deal since he
ReplyDeleteYeah, but remember the pop he got when he debuted in the WWE as the stalker? Get my point? It was never too late to book him as a title contender...until WWE made him into Taker's punching bag.
ReplyDeleteDDP's whole gimmick was being a good-natured New Jersey sleazeball. Y'know, he's almost a precursor to Ryder in some ways.
ReplyDeleteGoldberg just looked like Austin, his character was nothing like Austin's. That comparison has always bugged me a little bit, if only because if having a bald head & a goatee and wearing plain trunks isn't exactly something Austin invented. I mean, Goldberg was closer to a Nikita Koloff imitation than an Austin imitation.
ReplyDeleteAll good - my bad. I do recall it being during the Bret Hart angle now, which was a year later.
ReplyDeleteI have that shoot tape also, which may have been part of my subconscious posting that there.
see this is the havoc that Kevin Nash perpetrates on our society!!!! And again I hope you got the all caps as being over the top to express my humorous exasperation and NOT any attempt to bash you personally. You are far from the only one and this is far from the only board where I've seen that reference made. I think it's partly Nash and partly WCW just running together after the fingerpoke of doom.
ReplyDeleteit was all about the "anything can happen" vibe and the excitement of something new and different. Some of the new and different was a more vulgar product, some of it was the worked shoot garbage, some it was just being over the top, but it was different and exciting particularly to the teen/college demographic that was lapping up WWF in 99. I think people underestimate how much the competition of the two companies also helped create that excitement and actually got more people to watch and more to stick around. It's always more fun to argue Yankees vs. Redsox if both teams are good than just discuss the Yankees alone and constantly rehash whether Jeter should make a heel turn (or be replaced as starting SS, take your pick). I think both the internet boom and fans just talking to each other in dorms, at schools, and wherever else totally added to the boom. it was water cooler talk for the 13-24ish age group. Strangely enough WWF started to win me over with the rock/Foley feud, then summer of 99 was a wasteland for me as a fan because I ditched WCW completely after the Savage/Rodman porta potty match and basically only watched it on commercials. But I hated the higher power angle. It was only the Rock & Sock connection and the Foley/snow/rock stuff that hooked me big time on WWF, leading to the greatest booking period ever, Foley/HHH through Backlash.
ReplyDeleteAs another one of their enhancement talents specifically for the cruiserweight division, he would have been fine. But wasn't his debut match a title match against Kidman? And then he's put into what otherwise would've been a WCW Saturday Night undercard match here. There wasn't much sense in pushing the guy, but it was WCW so...
ReplyDeleteGot Luger'd:
ReplyDeleteHenry has been a jobber for fifteen years, despite being "the World's Strongest Man" - the fans stopped looking at him as Championship material a looong time ago, both because of his kayfabe record, and his utter lack of talent (both in the ring and on the mic).
Yeah, in kayfabe, he SHOULD be more credible due to his size and strength, but guys like Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels have always had more credibility, due both to booking and talent.
The way he executed the move, he kept his arms kind of tucked towards his chest - how stupid do you have to be to NOT take the impact on your forearms?
ReplyDeleteI always figured that was the secret, but, alas, it turns out he was just an idiot.
I liked DDP when he returned in 1996, and really liked him when he was the cool heel who turned down the nWo. But it seems once he caught on they went overboard pushing him and I got tired of him really fast. I don't know if it was him going over guys I liked more like Benoit or Raven, wearing jeans and selling rib injuries for months or him being pushed down my throat with celebrities tag partners, but I just tired of him really fast. I don't think the idea of him winning the title is ridiculous or anything, but by the time he did a lot of people were tired of him. I don't know if you can blame him for much, he only held the title a month or so before Nash won it, and it was a weird time for WCW. The nWo angle ended and it became more of a standard wrestling program (various good guys vs various bad guys) only they were using the same guys that were featured for two years during the nWo angle. It would get worse in a couple of months when Rick Steiner was a top heel. Actually I find that more offensive than DDP getting the title. I didn't give a shit about Rick Steiner when they kept pushing the Steiner Brothers long past their usefulness, or the almost never ending but never actually happening feud with Scott.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth I couldn't stand DDP as champion and wanted to see him lose the title, which is what his job was. I guess ratings didn't support that, but he was the heel I tuned in to watch lose and became irate when he won, even going as far as to buy a pay per view to see Kevin Nash hopefully beat him - this may have been a result of my being tired of him for a year or so prior though.
And after that he wrestled maybe once or twice ever in WCW. That was probably the best money he ever made in his career and he basically got paid to fly around the country and hang out in locker rooms.
ReplyDeleteGoldberg won the World Belt, but at the time it was glued to Triple H, so it was more important than it usually is. I guess you could count the Big Show as a WCW guy who won the WWE Championship.
ReplyDeleteYup, I think you are exactly right, especially about competition helping rejuvenate the entire business. At some point, it became almost a religious debate and I wish I'd had more contact with some of the people like yourself on the blog, as it would have been nice to discuss it without all of the AOL tards on RSPW at the time.
ReplyDeleteI was sorta in the same boat in terms of timeline -- although I actually pretty much stopped watching both groups almost entirely by the summer of 1999 and didn't watch either again until the mass exodus of WWF talent in January/February 2000. That was sort of short lived though, but the WWF had me back in the fold completely for another couple of years starting with the Angle/Stephanie/HHH stuff.
I think I recall seeing a bit of Whipwreck for a few months. Maybe I was incorrect, but I recall a lot of "Koko B. Ware" stuff from him- jobbing to put other guys over.
ReplyDeleteYou don't see how two badass no-nonsese shit-kickers who were up against the entire world could be seen as similar?
ReplyDeleteGoldberg did get injured though, man. So chill. Watch the Hall match from Souled Out, GOldberg is clearly injured and the annouce team even mentions it (not as a storyline point though)
ReplyDeletenot really. no more similar than Nikita Koloff or Bruiser Brody or ther no-nonsense shit kickers who were up against the entire world. Plus Goldberg didn't talk while Austin pretty much never shut up on the mic while Goldberg rarely talked. Different wrestlling styles too. Goldberg was just as comparable to Haku or Mark Henry as he was Austin
ReplyDeleteI would say there's a definite connection between Brody and Austin. Well, more Dick the Crusher than Brody, but they're all in a similar vein of worker/gimmick.
ReplyDeleteI personally see no difference b/w putting the title on DDP at this point and WWE putting the title on HHH later on that year.
ReplyDeleteNeither guy was pushed towards world title contention until around 1 month beforehand, and what purpose would keeping the title on Flair or giving it to Sting or Hogan again serve?
I personally blame the ratings fall on Hogan being given the title at the beginning of the year, combined with his face turn a few months later.
The moment Hogan was going to be booked as a Superman again and NOT get destroyed by Goldberg or someone of the like, I completely blacklisted the company.
Good call. DDP landing the Diamond Cutter in the La Parka gear is one of my favorite wrestling moments ever. I was a big DDP fan for the same reasons as you and I marked out huge at the time.
ReplyDeleteI think there's a difference between being World Champion level. And the booking doing him no favors.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the later, and disagree with the former.
Also by that same token you could argue whether Eddie Guerrero should've got the belt. Now obviously I know you were bigger on Eddie than you were on Page. So was I, but bear with me. On Eddie's way to winning the title, he dropped his U.S. Title cleanly to Big Show, the tag titles with Chavo cleanly to the Bashams; and for months meandered in a tag feud with them, until Chavo turned on him, but since Chavo was never treated as a serious threat, it did Eddie no favors as a main eventer.
All Eddie did to get Brock was win a royal rumble on TV. Before then he was never in any main event, or world title matches on pay per view (where as someone like Benoit was). With Page he at least had a main event level feud with Savage, was kept in the main event spotlight in 98 with the celebrity crap, and was in the other main events after those all the way up to World War 3.
Now I agree that the way Page got the belt was certainly questionable. But I never remember you questioning the legitimacy of Eddie Guerrero winning the title or being a legitimate main event level star before that.
Just a quick note, I am watching this now on WWE On Demand. Obviously any reference to Benoit will be erased from existence.
ReplyDelete