Dear Scott,
So as we head into Extreme Rules, with very little set, most people are at least pretty sure about the outcome of the WHC match: this match represents the blow off and final face victory in the Bryan/Sheamus feud. Bring on Alberto del Rio.
I'm not so sure. Between the face victories in the tag matches (including the legends tag), the response to the Bryan/AJ angle and the very underwhelming (through no fault of Sheamus') response to the Ginger Champion, I'm smelling a title hot shot that wasn't in the works before Mania.
As for the feud, Bryan hasn't dominated nearly enough to make people foam at the mouth for his loss, and I think WWE was already pretty high on Bryan even before the Vanilla Spring and the rise of the yes chant.
So my question from all of this: "what does it take for WWE to scuttle their plans?" We saw it in the Summer of Punk and it does feel like they are admitting on one level or another that they need to start relying on fan reaction, but do you think that they are ready to admit defeat on Sheamus? Is this looking to you like their ready to re-write their script for the next few months?
Also, fodder for discussion, what are some major title changes or title runs that were scrapped because of fan reaction or lack thereof?
Finally, my bold predictions:
Bryan wins the opening fall in 18 seconds with the Yes! lock. Sheamus taps quickly because he has another fall to spare, and wants to prevent long term damage.
Second fall ends with a thunderous Broque kick and the 1-2-3
Bryan is still out from the previous fall, Sheamus rolls off and rolls back on for a near 3rd fall, just to catch the IWC in a moment of rage.
AJ turns heel and wins Bryan back with interference leading to the 3rd fall
It has it all. Poetic justice, overbooking, and a little "Gotcha" moment for the IWC.
They’re moving AJ onto other things as far as I can tell.
I think they’ve purposely cooled Bryan off a lot as of late, and like it or not you’re getting Sheamus v. Del Rio for the next three or four PPVs. Sheamus is just going to beat him two straight falls and that will be that. He’s the big project and HHH’s boy, so no matter how much the fans reject him in Chicago he’s getting pushed and that’s it. And hey, as I’ve said before, I have absolutely nothing against Sheamus. I’m glad he’s getting a run with the belt and really had he just won the belt in a competitive match at Wrestlemania I, and most of the fanbase, would have no problem with this reign and Daniel Bryan moving down for a bit. His appeal is being hurt by something totally out of his control, and it’s kind of a shame because the Del Rio program is going to be brutally ignored by the fans. But because Sheamus and Del Rio have already been chosen as the next big stars, they’ll keep getting pushed and pushed until they stick. That’s just the way it works, sorry.
The other problem Sheamus had was after the Rumble, he had nothing to do for two months. That doesn't help the fact that for two months before the Rumble, he had nothing to do. There's very little depth to his character but thankfully they've given him some adversity lately. Until then he was just a big guy who kicked people's heads off and never really had a strong challenge. I liked his interactions with Ace a lot and Sheamus is someone that would fit well with Ace's boring style. It would be based in the classic "monster heel vs. monster killer" mold and it could work. The problem is when those monsters are people like Del Rio who has somehow gotten less interesting in his time off. I didn't think it was possible but he's done it. Like Scott says, it's not Sheamus' fault. he's doing the best he can with what he has, but he doesn't have much.
ReplyDeleteI was in Maui for a wedding this weekend with some friends and one day we took a boat tour over to another island and hung out on the beach. We were playing volleyball with the boat's crew and every time I scored a point I did the "Yes! Yes! Yes!" with finger points. By the end of the game all my friends and the boat crew were into it and we all were doing the yeses every time anyone scored. The crew even used it on the dock to say goodbye to us. The Yes chant stayed "over" for the rest of the vacation and the people I was with were doing it every chance they got, even in the wedding pictures and at the reception (it was how I capped off my best man speech after seeing the groom's parents give me the signal). Of course, I never told anyone it was a wrestling thing; as far as my friends new it was just some wacky gesture I did which wound up being a really fun gang sign.
ReplyDeleteIt was crazy how into it everyone was. It almost makes me think "Yes! Yes! Yes!" really does have this separate momentum to it, since all my friends spent a week doing the gesture completely outside the context of wrestling. If nothing else though, this shows that from the mind of Bryan was born possibly the most accessible catch phrase of all time. And we were supposed to believe that charisma was this guy's deficiency? What other wrestling taunt could have entertained a group of non-fans for an entire week? Certainly not "What?" (that would have been annoying in minutes) or the NWO Wolfpack sign (that would have just been obnoxious). The DX Crotch-chop would have been tasteless at a wedding. Hulk Hogan's posing would have been over the top and self aggrandizing. "You Can't See Me?" No, just no. I've got the feeling "Yes" will be with us for a long time, and until the WWE explicitly bans Bryan from using the catchphrase (which I wouldn't put past them) The American Vegan is going to be over because of it.
Scott, the whole point of the guy's e-mail is that it's NOT always how it works. Sometimes, they really do listen to us.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if that's the case or not with Bryan, but it would have been really easy for them to ignore the "YES!" stuff and write it off as one smarky crowd having fun, but they didn't.
Why wouldn't they move AJ on? She's super over as part of the duo so it makes perfect sense to completely fuck it up when it finally gets some play.
ReplyDeleteAs for Bryan, it's going to be fun watching him get punished all summer long.
It could be worse, we could be getting Del Rio vs. Orton instead.
ReplyDeleteI fully expect Sheamus to retain (and I'm fine with that, I like Sheamus). I do think it's not absolutely impossible Bryan wins the title back, but I doubt it. Only way I see that happening is if they decide they want to go with Orton and Del Rio instead of Sheamus and Del Rio, and want to transition the title back to him.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that WON'T happen is Bryan winning the first fall in 18 seconds. They're very high on Sheamus and that would be a total burial. At least Bryan had the (extremely shaky) excuse of "I was distracted and got caught by a quick kick". This would be a fully aware Sheamus submitting in 18 seconds. Can't see that.
I'm not convinced the AJ/BRyan storyline has concluded, nor am I convinced that moving them apart temporarily is the wrong thing.
ReplyDeleteThen again, I thought they weren't totally boning over Ryder, so maybe I'm being far too optimistic.
AJ's over with the whole Bryan storyline, so clearly the logical move is to make her random Diva #72. Maybe she can come out and giggle in 14 diva tag matches that last 30 seconds, or maybe she can have a dodgeball game at the next PPV and then get fired because for some reason nobody cares.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine thinks they should make her Harley Quinn to Bryan's Joker. Hopelessly devoted to him even though he treats her like crap, but not in a battered woman type of way, more of a "She's nuts" way. Not that Bryan's character is like Joker, but still, that'd be a better idea than the nothing that we'll probably get.
It would actually be a neat spot if he comes back and wins the next two falls. It's always good psychology in a 2 of 3 falls match (or Iron Man match) to give up a fall to save the match. Lose the battle, win the war.
ReplyDeleteBryan does the job but can say he made Sheamus tap. Helps both guys if it's a close, competitive match. Might work better if it's the second fall, after Sheamus wins the first, so Sheamus doesn't look like a total ass.
Dude...you were partying in Maui. Alcohol was likely involved. What _wouldn't_ get over under those circumstances??
ReplyDeleteTraditionally, faces aren't supposed to be cunning. People wouldn't see that he was smart to sacrifice a fall, they'd see a big guy submitting to a much smaller guy, and take that as a sign of weakness.
ReplyDeleteThat's where good announcing can help a match (obviously doesn't help the live reaction, but the live reaction in Chicago is going to be overwhelmingly pro-DB anyway). This is something Cole is actually sort of good at when he stays on task and downplays the shtick.
ReplyDeleteIt's also a good way to further a double turn if they wanted to go that route.
I don't know, I'm all hopped up on cold medicine. Just thinking out loud.
Probably true, but I was just amazed by the longevity and the fact that I wasn't the one pushing it the whole time. I'm imagining things wouldn't have worked out the same way if I'd been trying to do Randy Orton's viper dance on the volleyball court. Triple H's water spit might have been fun with a Mai-Tai however (though that would have constituted alcohol abuse).
ReplyDeleteThat would be atrocious, and I love Del Rio. ADR works best with strong heat segments and a guy that's willing and capable to work the arm damage into the match (Punk for example) ADR is not a Christian or Ziggler, matches with him taking the majority of the offense look bad. Orton has good MOVEZ but he's a shitty seller, when the heel can string a match together between Orton's MOVEZ it can be enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI really wish they would've given ADR Edge's booking, that of an arrogant shit-talker that can wrestle and win if he's called on his shit.
I wonder if ADR taking out Bryan out of jealousy and giving Sheamus the win might work. Turn Bryan face and keep Sheamus face as well.
ReplyDeleteChris Benoit's throat slit?
ReplyDeleteIMO, tragic flaws are necessary for any character, and Sheamus' lack of self-control fits with his character and can lead to a variety of angles. He's still a pretty basic character but at least they're adding depth as opposed to removing it.
ReplyDeleteSheamus is one of my favorites, but it's gonna be fun watching the crowd shit all over him. As for Del Rio, while I like him, the WWE has done him no favors. They fucked it up by not putting him over Edge at WM, and fucked him again shoehorning him in with Cena and Punk, and then he gets hurt. I think they need to move him down the card and rebuild him up, throwing him in there with Sheamus won't help. Put him and Ricardo as a team and let them run with the tag titles for awhile.
ReplyDeleteI, too, have the feeling that Bryan will win the title back. I know Del Rio already won the right to be no #1 contender for the belt, but most people have probably already forgotten about that.
ReplyDeleteYeah that's true. Del Rio has had all of his depth taken away and it's killed him.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, that would have been perfect. Then I could have reenacted Jake "The Snake's" performance from Heroes of Wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI agree that breaking them up and "moving AJ on" would be terrible for her; and I also like the Harley Quinn idea.
ReplyDeleteI think what I am enjoying about this story is that the characters are actually dynamic - they have depth, and thus it is hard to read where the story will go. AJ manages to evoke sympathy (for her abuse), frustration (for not getting it), and even anger (for her not realizing that Bryan needs a good smack in the face). Bryan is equally interesting. He is hilarious for the most part (especially his ability to come across as spacey and delusional, such as during the "YESlock!" promo). At the same time, he is still capable of drawing heat by seeming legitimately heartless and manipulative in his treatment of AJ. Yet there are so many options for him. Here is a character that was bullied and abused (by Miz and Cole) through most of his run. Does he have doubts that he is projecting on AJ? Does he feel out of his league and try to bring her down? Or is he just a jerk that like having power over someone? All of these seem viable, which makes the story interesting - at least to me. Then again, I really liked the Jericho-Trish romance in 2004 for the same reason: we weren't sure what Jericho's motives were. And being Canadian I was emotionally invested in the "Loonie" bet...
Overall, I can just see so much potential that they could pull out of the story over 6 months or even longer before deciding a proper conclusion. Will she finally leave him and put him in his place? Will they become a nerdy power couple, terrorizing those twice their size? Will she abandon him, only to watch him fall and then return to redeem him (the Liz story)? All of these are plausible, but the key is not to rush it. The characters need to maintain their complexity...
I am really setting myself up for a let-down on this one, aren't I? *shakes 8-ball* Ah! A Harris Brother!!!
*Shakes other 8-ball* "Highly likely..." :-(
I predict a Sheamus win 2-1 falls, he'll lose a fall via DQ due to referee related shennanigans, all the while he is booed for whatever reason by the Chicago crowd.
ReplyDeleteI feel for Sheamus. He was getting very hot from fall to WrestleMania and a portion of the audience has kind of turned on him because of the 18 second thing. It was out of his control and I'm sure he'd much rather have had an 18 minute match than an 18 second one. I'll really feel bad too if the Chicago crowd shits on him like I'm guessing they will.
ReplyDeleteAnd since Mania, WWE has dropped the ball with his character IMO. He's mainly been cheap shotting people. I hope he's able to recover from whatever damage has been done by this because I think he could be a great babyface for WWE.
My prediction for Extreme Rules is either 2-0 victory for Sheamus or Sheamus dropping a fall due to countout or DQ. The next few shows I can see Del Rio/Sheamus 1 on 1 or a triple threat with Orton or Bryan. After Del Rio Sheamus can work something with Cody Rhodes too. They could have some kick ass matches.
If AJ helps Bryan win...is that really considered a heel turn? It'll probably get one of the biggest pops of the night.
ReplyDeleteScott hit the nail on the head.....it isn't that Sheamus won the belt, it's that he won it under nonsense circumstances at Mania. I think most of us expected Sheamus to win at WM anyway and were looking forward to him being pushed as one of the top faces in the company, but with the benefit of winning the title and looking strong in a 10-minute bout. Instead, we got the 18-second debacle that made Sheamus the villain by proxy since the fans can't directly boo the creative team.
ReplyDeleteI dug the psuedo-babyface Mexican pride thing. And the destiny gimmick was pretty neat the first couple months that he was doing it, but then they forgot to have him win (I think that ADR has a casualness to him that could get that sort of gimmick over) and he became another chicken shit heel.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that they tried pushing Miz as a badass, when he's the one heel on the roster who doesn't need to be pushed as a badass since he gets heat all by himself.
Considering Bryan is really new to the main-event (and actual angles in general) as well as the Sports Entertainment of WWE, there are no preconceived notions of what they're going to do with him or what he's going to do with what he's given.
ReplyDeleteOrton might generally be a shitty seller, but no one in history has sold Sweet Chin Music like him.
ReplyDelete"They’re moving AJ onto other things as far as I can tell."
ReplyDeleteThis would be so stupid on so many levels. You don't break up an act JUST as they're getting hot.
The $$$ is in AJ joining back w/ Bryan and helping him win the title. If the WWE is serious about Sheamus, they'll let him do a proper title chase after gaining some sympathy heat.
I know they wont for the reasons Scott outlined above and it's an excellent example of why the WWE gets everyone's money for WrestleMania....is then promptly ignored for the next 9 months, barring a CM Punk-like miracle.
I'm a big Del Rio guy, but they have botched his character for a year-plus now. Get rid of the friggin cars and any comedy, let him kick ass and have Ricardo rile the crowd up.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get is that if Vince loves ADR as much as Meltzer has continuously stated, why does he allow such crappy writing?
You don't want to turn Bryan face at this point. He's got to be a tweener for a while.
ReplyDeleteDid you find out who the hell kicked your pet dog Mavis?
ReplyDeleteI had my last day working at a supermarket tonight and left the store yelling Yes Yes Yes while wearing the shirt. It "gets over" with people because its funny.
ReplyDeleteBecause Vince thinks it isn't bad. Or no one is pointing out to him that it is.
ReplyDeleteStory of this mismanaged company. I hate monopolies. Not just in wrestling. Same sh*t happens in every large company in a monopolistic/oligopolistic market. It's bad for consumers.
ReplyDelete...I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteIt was an (EXTREEEEME) shot in the dark. There's a Dead Milkmen song that ends with the singer saying, "Somebody kicked my pet dog Mavis and I'm gonna find out just who the hell it was. I'm all messed up on cough syrup now so just like nevermind."
ReplyDeleteI sense AJ and Bryan being together all along, but not sure if that will lead to a title change. I really don't think they will have Sheamus squash Bryan this time, might win two falls to one but it will be competitive.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I agree that AJ is being moved onto other things, since she's still so closely associated to Bryan. He still mentions her in most of his promos and the announcers still bring her up. Plus every time she appears, it's in relation to him.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would do is have it tied at 1-1 (with Sheamus getting the first fall, and Bryan tying it up with a BS DQ). Then when Sheamus is beating on Bryan and seems to have the match won, AJ runs down and begs Sheamus to stop. This gives Bryan the opportunity to get a cheap victory, and suddenly Bryan sees the advantage of stringing AJ along. This at least returns us to the fun chemistry they had before WrestleMania.
Correct. Otherwise, it'll be one of those too soon face turns, like Brock and Randy Orton got early in their careers because some crowds cheered them. They're so quick to make new faces, but will never ever turn Cena heel.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. It would be stupid to do so.
ReplyDeleteWhich is probably why the WWE will do it.
Yeah he was fine for awhile, and then he just stopped advancing. There was the moment when he was standing over Christian when he had to go out with his injury and Del Rio has the most evil smile you've ever seen on his face. It made you think "hokey smoke this guy is crazy and has some deep evil in him." That never gets mentioned again and he spends the next year breaking the record for saying the word destiny over and over. He hasn't cut a different promo in forever.
ReplyDeleteAnyone remember a few years ago when Orton worked heel he was an overseller of the Mr Perfect variety? Pretty much Dolph Ziggler before Dolph Ziggler.
ReplyDeleteI thought he was really good for what its worth. I dont think ive watched enough of his matches as a face though to judge how much he has declined in the selling category, but I remember him being very good not long ago.
When Bryan initially turned heel, I really hated that he was made to be such a traditional "chickenshit" heel, especially since he was programmed against much larger guys and booked as a completely fluke champion; however, I think that he is at a point now where he at least looks like he can win most of his matches decisively, and I think the door is open to make him more of a delusional "wrestling machine" character, much like Kurt Angle's original incarnation.
ReplyDeleteI understand that the company was going for a "shocking" twist at WM, but over just the last few weeks, I think the fans would now be more willing to buy him as a credible main-eventer. He really is chilling in some of his interactions with AJ, I definitely get the feeling that he suffers from a Napoleon Complex and physically beats her as a way to prove to himself that he can actually beat-up SOMEBODY; it wouldn't take much for the company to decide to have him utilize and channel that ruthlessness towards his opponents. There's a very scary side to his character, and I think it'd be smart to explore it.
They tried doing a few different things with him, such as making him a remorseless killer against Christian and being brave enough to get in Kane's face, but it was always forgotten in a week or two.
ReplyDeleteWell, in Cena's defense, he has that delusional belief that you have to be an actual bad person in real life in order to play a bad guy on television.
ReplyDeleteThe tag idea isn't a bad one with the exception that Ricardo would completely become the bigger star because he has all the things the powers that be wished Del Rio had.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, if anybody could fill Angle's shoes it's ADR. (Angle as the badass wrestler, not Angle as the no-selling coked up joke) He's one guy that could get over as an evil sonofabitch who will armbar you to hell.
ReplyDeleteFair point. But I think having Bryan wrestle a couple matches as a face to see if he's still over (on house shows and superstars on such) don't have him go out and hug Cena, just see if the reactions are good, and if so, slowly move him in that direction over the year.
ReplyDeleteDon't care if he was good, he's currently trash.
ReplyDeleteYeah, my thinking was that it would lead to a huge face turn for Ricardo and a big match between the two at WM. But God forbid they do anything with Del Rio besides losing World title matches.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with Del Rio is I always saw (and still see) him as a flamboyant, vaguely effete prick, like Rick Martel or Rene Dupree. Having him as either a prideful Mexican (and how does that generate heat?) or as a sub-JBL "I'm super rich" character just doesn't feel right on him. Have Ricardo hold up giant mirrors while Del Rio preens in front of hit, and make sure he makes the kinda faces found on Telenovelas, and you would have gold.
ReplyDeleteOriginal e-mailer here:
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else find it interesting that the opening interview featured Del Rio engaging with Daniel Bryan? Also, more mentally unstable AJ.
Dunno if any of this means anything.