So is Hogan just blowing smoke up our asses, or is the 1,824th time the charm?
- Joe
I have as much faith in Hogan as I ever have or ever will.
So is Hogan just blowing smoke up our asses, or is the 1,824th time the charm?
- Joe
I have as much faith in Hogan as I ever have or ever will.
He got on TV and promised the same thing when Impact moved to Mondays a couple of years ago. His promise didn't deliver then, no reason to think it will now.
ReplyDeleteWonder if Hogan ever thought of outright buying TNA?
ReplyDeleteAs great as a wrestler & politician as Hogan was, he is equally a fucking disaster from the creative side of things.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see Shane McMahon buy TNA.
This is the most frustrating thing about TNA. They tell us all that they're going to make major changes, but they never make those changes. Months later, they admit that those changes failed and now they're going to try to make more changes. The changes aren't that hard that they need to do. All they have to do is listen to their fans. When they used to listen to their fans - for example, when they finally put the belt on Samoa Joe - the show did TNA's biggest buyrate ever.
ReplyDeleteOh, I don't know. I think doubters may be in for the ULTIMATE surprise when they see Hogan's PERFECT plan.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't look good when TNA went live on Mondays, every other week as opposed to every week, then went back to Thursdays taped. Their live episodes did better than their taped ones.
ReplyDeleteSave us Scott Steiner, you're are only hope.
ReplyDeleteHow can you fix something when it never worked to begin with?
ReplyDeleteAt this point, TNA has nothing to lose by dropping everyone over 35 (announcers included) and allowing the young guys to express themselves in speech, dress and style as they would in everyday life. This is what Paul Heyman would have done and it remains the best idea to save TNA yet.
You shut your whore mouth right now.
ReplyDeleteWrong.
ReplyDeleteWell that wouldn't work because you'd also lose the Dudleys and I like Bully Ray. If they'd ever have a show up North, I'd go and demand he get the tables.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzWlPmHA8i4 .
What amazes me about Hogan, is that he always seems to start out with honorable intentions. When he returned with the nWo to the WWE, and then turned face, he seemed like he was there to put people over, but it was only a matter of time before he was winning the title, taking up time as Mr. America, and then eventually beating Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton.
ReplyDeleteTo hear him tell it, these things just happen. He shows up, and does his usual schtick, and just becomes so popular that he can't help but become a focus. After all, it would be irresponsible for him not to do everything he can with his wild popularity and unearthly charisma. He really seems convinced that he only played politics once, and that everything else is just him being in the right place, at the right time, with everyone chanting his name.
And yes, I know my timeline is skewed there, but Hogan's late career kind of ran together.
Hogan's first return to WWE was a really, really strange anomaly. He seemed to put his ego and politics aside and was just there to have fun. And you know what? In many ways, that was probably his best run in the modern era. The fans LOVED the guy. And his co-workers seemed to really enjoy his company. If you listen to anybody who worked with him during that era, they all speak glowingly of him. That includes Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Edge, Lance Storm, and a host of others. During that specific period, nobody had negative things to say about him.
ReplyDeleteConsidering his declining physical health, he put on better matches than he probably should have. And he was incredibly unselfish. He tapped out clean to Kurt Angle. He lost clean to Brock Lesnar. He lost clean to Rock. He lost clean to Triple H. And the time he did beat Triple H, he put him over HUGE in a WWF.com interview afterwards. And when his reign was pretty much a bust, he lost it a month later.
And not only did he lower himself to the tag team titles....but he even allowed Edge to make the pinfall to win them. On top of that....he even made jokes about him being bald! It was completely against everything you had heard about Hogan, and there didn't seem to be any negative backlash. It's strange that he didn't take that to heart, because his next return (the Mr. America period) he seemed to revert back to his old ways. It was really strange.
2002 Hogan was *weird*. He put over Rock clean, tapped (tapped!!!) clean to Angle, and let Brock make him his bitch (with no comeback down the road). And even when he beat HHH it wasn't a clean win.
ReplyDeleteYES!
ReplyDeleteHis 2003 return at least paved way to his match with Vince at Mania 19 which was super fun I thought.
ReplyDeleteAs long they keep him away from anything that involves math.
ReplyDeleteI despised Hogan's 2002 return. It really was the event that ended Raw and SD as Must see TV and turned me into an occasional viewer up through 2006 when I stopped watching all together. The crowd reactions made me roll my eyes, the whole thing just came of as totally fake and a giant in joke where the audience realizes how silly it all is but "hey cheering Hogan like crazy is the thing to do." That said, he still had a name and he put over some guys very nicely. I hated his short run with the belt, but the Mr. America stuff or the tag title thing was fine. And his streetfight angle with Vince was fine too. Hated his 2nd return where he refused to lay down for HBK. One of them had to show up every Monday to work, one of them didn't. The one that did should have won. And it led to a terrible match because Shawn threw a tantrum and made a mockery of it by overselling so badly it went beyond comical and into disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteHe did put Brock over like a million bucks but he didn't like the jobs he did on the way. He said as much on an interview up here in Canada (Off The Record), basically saying how he should have gone undefeated leading up to the clash with Brock so it would have meant more.
ReplyDeleteHe's right that it would have had a greater impact...but to do so would bury a bunch of talent that would be there long after Hogan left again.
Even so, the image of Brock taking down Hulk with a BEAR HUG after so many powerhouses tried to do so with the same move to Hulk in the 1980s was HUGE.
Yeah, like I said, he actually seemed to have changed. And, I bought it. then the complaints started up again, the clashes with creative, etc. I didn't realize that him winning the title was before he put so many people over. A genuine surprise.
ReplyDeleteMy only guess is that Hogan is very patient and was building up backstage capital. The other theory is that he still hasn't figured out that what is good for Hogan is not necessarily good for everyone else. Don't know.
I asked this when Hogan first came to TNA, and I'll ask it again - what booking experience does the guy have to "save" TNA? They hired one of the biggest names in wrestling because he was one of the biggest names in wrestling without considering that he has no record of being a successful booker and only seemed to book his own angles or throw his two cents in on the angles of people that could be a threat to him in WCW. Either he, or TNA, or both just assume that his ideas are brilliant because he was the biggest star in wrestling 20 years ago.
ReplyDeleteIt's too bad, there's a lot of things, and talent, in TNA that I like, but it's become a combination of bad wrestling cliches. Various figureheads, some good, some bad, bickering over power, non-sensical face and heel turns, rushed angles, the bookers son being pushed, washed up has-beens hanging around so they can pay their alimony, 60 year old has-beens fighting. It's too bad, there's a lot of great talent in TNA that's buried under all of this.
Hogan reminds me of a guy like Michael Jordan. A great performer/athlete in their time, one of the best (if not the best), but doesn't know shit about talent (or booking in this case).
ReplyDeleteIn defense of "experience", which I feel is thrown around way too much, Bischoff and Russo and Pritchard all have lots of experience. Just saying.
Only Jesse Baker can save TNA.
ReplyDeleteThreadjack:
ReplyDeleteRory Macdonald has some serious skills. That is all.
Damn man...don't even get me started on Michael Jordan... I live in Charlotte and the Bobcats are ABYSMAL. They've won one more game than the Panthers did last season. The NFL season is 16 regular season games, this lock-out condensed season is 62 games! Maybe they're tanking on purpose, but you can buy a ticket for 5 bucks. Courtside seats are 50!
ReplyDeleteIf he can somehow buy the Hornets name from New Orleans' new management and win the lottery maybe things will start to turn around. But it just irks me man, I want at the very least a competitive hoops team to root for here in the Queen's City!
He won the lottery in Washington. He drafted Kwamee Brown. I'll leave you with that :-)
ReplyDeleteZombie Curt Hennig would be awesome. I'd watch TNA for that.
ReplyDeleteFuj is correct. Their biggest buyrate was the initial Joe v. Angle match. Joe getting the belt was a big one, but not the biggest.
ReplyDeleteSo would I, as I happen to believe he would have the brains (much more than Stephanie anyway) to run the company. But he appears to have no interest in wrestling anymore (at least working in it.)
ReplyDeleteI don't think dropping everyone over 35 is the greatest idea. It doesn't hurt to have at least some of the more experience or established guys on your roster, so long as it's not filled with them, especially in the top spots. I'm enjoying a lot of Bobby Roode's stuff, even though he is 35 (and I wouldn't get rid of him.)
ReplyDeleteHahahaha jesus.. don't remind me.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I'd be all for TNA using their financial position to 'throw every idea at the wall and see what sticks' and maybe stumble onto something that is actually revolutionary or turns the industry on it's ear, but it seems like these type of announcements are followed with more of the same "partying like it's 1999" booking that they've been stuck on for years now.
ReplyDeleteAll this thread needs is a Steven A Smith video ranting on Kwame to be complete!
ReplyDeleteI agree, I like Heyman and all, but his idea of filling a promotion with a bunch of young and green guys seems like a horrible idea. You need a good amount of selfless vets to in order to teach the young guys how to work and stuff.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind a Hogan booked promotion as something different, so long as he doesn't book stuff where he's completely obsessed about bringing the nWo back for the millionth time because it worked so well in 1996.
ReplyDeleteBut a Hogan booked promotion where he keeps things simple and pays homage to 1980s wrestling and updates it to a brand new audience could be pretty effective. For instance, I could see Hogan building up a guy like Matt Morgan as the virtuous good guy superhero, and then at the same time you build up a super heavyweight heel like Somoa Joe and you keep those two undefeated for awhile before they eventually feud.
regarding his 2002 run: I am pretty sure it has to do with the fact that if Hogan would have been his horrible self, he would not have been rehired again. he didn't have the leverage (or at least: seemed to think he didn't) to demand the booking in his direction.
ReplyDeleteBut can you blame Shawn for overselling? Hogan was just that much of a jackass.
ReplyDeleteShane buying TNA= Awkward Christmas's at the Mcmahon house.
ReplyDeleteThey probably were never normal to begin with now that I think about it.
Yeah, I'm wrong. I got confused with gate and buyrates. Lockdown 2008 was their biggest gate ever. But yes, it was behind both Angle-Joe I and BFG 2006.
ReplyDeleteNot even close. 'let's do this.' 'I don't want to do that.' 'fuck you then, I'll do what I want!'
ReplyDeleteAnd what did that get him? The same haters making up ridiculous things like 90% of the audience were cheering him sarcastically. That portion of the audience is never going to be happy with him, so fuck em.
ReplyDelete"TNA needs stable storylines..."
ReplyDeleteMake sure someone clarifies to Hogan that this means steady storylines and not storylines about a bunch of groups running around.
And the winner of the humble pie eating contest... You.
ReplyDeleteThen we would get Hogan vs Brutus Beefcake and Nasty Boys vs the World. ;)
ReplyDeleteHe'll reconcile with Linda and grow his hair back before he fixes TNA.
ReplyDeleteHmmm, I like stable stories. It's the easiest way to push everyone involved. And the Main Event Mafia was IMO a big success. And instead of making a new Stable with Immortal, they should have build a new MEM with Angle, Sting, Nash, Steiner and Hogan, because if someone fits into a "Main Event Mafia", it's Hogan. ;-)
ReplyDeleteThat's a fair comparison, it happens in all sports, there's the assumption that an elite player can easily transition to being a great coach or general manager.
ReplyDeleteHogan also doesn't seem to have any common sense when it comes to promoting anything but himself. Sometimes I get the impression that he's only in TNA because it's an avenue to suck more money from the wrestling business, because when he's interviewed he hardly mentions TNA unless the interviewer brings it up and constantly says stupid things that don't do a lot to put over the company. I thought James Storm was a better choice as World Champion to, but when you're doing interviews intended to promote the biggest show of the year, why would you make a point of saying the guy the show is being build around isn't the right guy for that spot? It's just such a stupid thing for a guy with his experience to say.
I have as much faith in Hogan as I do in God... and I don't believe in God.
ReplyDeleteYep, I'm so humbled about being wrong about a fake sport, especially abou something as meaningless as a buyrate or TNA.
ReplyDeleteI think there is more value, more ratings, and more profit in doing a 1980s style fed than there is in the pathetic rehash of the attitude era/NWO era that they keep doing. Lots of fans are still nostalgic for the 80s style basic storylines that were logical. Not so much for the late 90s where we all look back and think, 'we thought THIS was good?" You can't recreate the "anything can happen" feel that the late 90s had, nor is any of that stuff revolutionary anymore, which was 90% of the appeal. However you can capture wrestling fans nostalgic for their youth or for the wrestling they loved before it started sucking and then got out of control and "vulgar." It's certainly worth a shot, because the umpteenth rehash of the NWO style group on top, the heel GM/authority figure, or the worked shoot stuff certainly has shown over and over and over and over (I could keep typing that word for awhile too) to not be working.
ReplyDeleteyeah, because the MEM drove the ratings all the way up from 1.1 to 1.1111111. And the buyrates went up by 3 people. What a success. And god help us if we have another stable with 2 guys incapable of working, one god awful worker with sanity issues and a marble mouth, a has-been who tries, and a good worker who could snap and kill the locker room at any time. And unless the plan is to use these guys short term to put over younger talent (as in not Anderson, Bully Ray, RVD, or Jeff Hardy) then it's same old crap, different day.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think the vulgarity and such were simply window dressing and not the actual elements that made the late 1990s boom so successful. I think the real draw (at least for former wrestling fans) was the total deconstruction of the type of 1980s wrestling people grew up and were sick of (since they rode it until the wheels fell off) -- namely the death of the 1980s style superhero and the rise of the anti-hero.
ReplyDeleteGuys like Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior got over in the 1980s because they were like living, breathing personifications of He-Man -- "good guy" warriors guided by unseen and powerful forces, battling a cast of evil, monstrous villains. That sort of dynamic reflected the taste of the youth culture in the 1980s, just in the same way Steve Austin did for the counterculture of 1990s. Austin was the perfect antithesis to 1980s Hogan -- sort of Al Bundy crossed with the Bruce Willis -- plain, rude, crude, unapologetic, immoral. He wasn't a specimen that battled monster and giants, but instead fought the frustration of having a shitty boss at a job you hate. On the other hand, Goldberg was really the first 'neo-superhero' type to get over, as he was basically the 1990s counterpart to the Ultimate Warrior. Where the Warrior was a dramatic, loud, neon tassel-wearing, ass-kicking machine, Goldberg was an almost silent, plainly dressed ass kicking machine who used his real name.
As you said though, that's just not something you can keep on doing though -- once you've done it is done. You have to have a
set of previously strong characters in order to make their fall from grace or transformation mean
anything.
Vince Russo thinks it all got over just because people said 'ass' on TV though.
I guess that's one less "Hulkster in Heaven".
ReplyDeleteI used to tear my shirt, but now you've torn my heart!
YES!
ReplyDelete