Hello Scott,
Always enjoy a good mailbag, and would appreciate your opinion on something that has been bothering me for a while. Just what is the deal with Michael Hayes?
I appreciate the impact the Freebirds made, and he obviously must have a decent mind for the business given his career backstage and in the ring, but his ring-work came across as being centred around stalling and doing a crap moonwalk.
Yet he appears to be very well respected, and has ascended through the WWE from road agent to head writer. So is he a genius? Opportunist? Overrated?
Keep up the good work!
Tom
Discussion topic: Who among today's guys are going to be the best agents and writers for the next generation? Punk obviously. Any dark horses?
Reasonable guess: Cody Rhodes
ReplyDeleteInteresting choice: Dolph Ziggler ("At this point, you're going to want to throw in some spot like senselessly doing six flips and landing on your face. I got the idea from Mr. Perfect.")
Another reasonable guess: Christian
I agree with Justin's pics. I'd also add Edge, Regal and Striker to that list.
ReplyDeleteI'd guess nobody, they'll keep hiring from outside the business and it will eventually encroach on agent jobs.
ReplyDeleteDolph Ziggler could teach people how to sell, if nothing else. Another way to look at it is which of today's stars want to hang around after they retire and not move on to do something else with their lives?
ReplyDeleteRegal already pretty much is.
ReplyDeleteJericho would probably do very well in a backstage roll as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to say Mark Henry and Big Show would be good bookers. They've both been around for ages on all levels of the food chain and clearly get how the business works. Show, especially, seems very smart and on the ball. Neither would be great trainers, other than with a similar sized monster, but I bet they could both write a decent angle.
ReplyDeleteIf he had a desire to, Lance Storm would be a good trainer, I'd imagine. He gets how to work...just didn't have the charisma.
On the flipside, Randy Orton would be TERRIBLE.
Michael McGuillicuddy seems like another "bland in the ring, good at helping others out" sorta guy.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with Hayes (and the Freebirds) is they were always in such white-hot angles that the ring work was almost irrelevant. And if they want to do a good match, they'd throw Gordy out there. It's a great example of old-school pro wrestling - Hayes was a loudmouth dick who seemed like a wuss to fans but would never get what was coming to him because his friend was Terry F'in Gordy. So simple...WWE should recycle that premise every 3 years.
ReplyDeleteAs for agents, Christian is the first guy that jumps to mind. He reminds me of a new era Arn Anderson.
I also think the Miz could be good. Like Hayes, he could get over but he didn't have the main event skill set. Actually, Miz on the Real World reminds me of Hayes talking about his teenage days of just being a mark and wanting to get in the business.
Miz is the guy that needs to be paired with a bodyguard/brute ala Terry Gordy. Give him Ryback or something. I mean, it sorta worked with Alex Riley even though Riley was mediocre in the ring and hardly an enforcer. A pairing like that might rejuvinate Miz.
ReplyDeleteI think you're under valuing Buddy Roberts' contributions. He was by no means one of the best workers, but he was a great worker, and his role and the Freebirds' human pinball was extremely valuable. It helped to keep Gordy's mystique as the wild badass, and it allowed Hayes to continue to infuriate crowds without losing his heat by taking too many pinfalls.
ReplyDeleteMiz's character would want the biggest bodyguard possible, someone like Mason Ryan.
ReplyDeleteThere's an analogy to team sports here. The biggest stars in sports rarely go on to be great coaches, or coaches at all. Same goes for the greatest wrestlers. They would so quickly get frustrated, wondering "why can't you all just be like me?!"
ReplyDeleteThe wrestlers who had to work hard just to claw their way to the midcard would make the best trainers, bookers, and agents.
Not really apart of the next generation, but I always felt Scott Hall had a calling to be a great booker since all the interviews I've read, the guy really *gets* the wrestling business.
ReplyDeleteBut as far as the next generation goes, I'd say Daniel Bryan; as well as being a great trainer, I believe Bryan could be a good booker too as the guy also gets the wrestling business.
This idea of Hayes being "all talk, no work" plain and simply doesn't stand up to the video evidence. In World Class he was pretty much neck and neck with Kerry and Chris Adams as the best worker in the promotion (this doesn't count Flair though one could argue that we should). Yes, better than Gordy. Hayes could be the charismatic babyface, psycho heel, grizzled veteran babyface or heel, cowardly heel, or brawling heel. He had a nice array of offense, he could sell his ass off, and as mentioned the crowd was electric for everything he did as a heel or face. That's about a thousand times more important than the number of Asai moonsaults he could do. His '89 stuff with WCW is pretty good too. The '90s Freebirds were awful but...well, Wrestler Gets Worse As He Gets Older, Film at 11.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the guy's a racist shitbag, but if we're going to demerit workers in this business for being subpar human beings then no one's going to be left.
Yeah, Scott Hall has such a great mind for the business, if it wasn't for his PTSD and the alcoholism, he could've been a great agent.
ReplyDeleteLance Storm IS a trainer, he owns his own wrestling school.
ReplyDeleteI'm honestly surprised they haven't gotten Bret to be a road agent, booker, or FCW (or equivalent) trainer. You would think, if anyone had the most to share, it would be Bret. Ditto for Shawn.
ReplyDeleteFoley's another guy I'm surprised they haven't put into that role.
As far as the current crop? Well, if we're going by WWE's most common road agents, such as Hayes or Steve Lombardi, it's hard to say. I could see Santino eventually becoming one. Big Show, as someone else mentioned, could be another.
Punk, I could see taking over at the commentator's table when he retires. Daniel Bryan, while he'll likely wind up having his own wrestling school, could be a great FCW trainer.
If we're talking about guys who will go on to backstage stuff and maybe influence some of the writing and finishes, I really wish people like Austin and Foley would accept the job. Between his book, interviews, twitter, and how he came up with the Flair retirement angle, Stone Cold Steve Austin seems to have a friggin' brilliant mind for wrestling. He'll probably have less stress and more money making b-movies and cameos in mainstream action films, though. Foley, too, is extremely cerebral and knowledgeable about what works. I'd build a booking team around Austin, Foley, and--don't laugh--Kevin Nash (who has a good mind for what works...but always thinks of himself as the star).
ReplyDeleteFuture agents and Pat Patterson types? I could see R-Truth, Kane, and Daniel Bryan (quite possibly this generation's Ricky Steamboat) as guys who can guide talent and would be willing to continue traveling with the company. They all seem to be talented team players.
Oh yeah, and I agree with the Edge and Christian nominations as well. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble with all of these guys becoming WWE bookers is that they know better than to get involved with Vince's craziness since he'll shoot down or warp their ideas anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame Raven never wanted to book/agent as he had a natural mind for it. He always ended up as de facto booker of his own stuff and they were always good.
ReplyDeleteDaniel Bryan will always be involved, but I think his buds like London and Kendrick would be great at running their own breakaway promotion. They were always trying to do things the right way, and bring ideas to the table (you know how they tell young guys that they should get over) and always getting shot down.I'll go with Christian as well.
I can def. see Regal as a great road agent and trainer. You know, I think Santino Marella may have a future in it; he could definitely be an asset in helping midcarders break from the pack a little. It's hard to think of someone on the roster who has done so much with not a whole lot given, he's certainly maximized his potential to the fullest and got crazy over.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I always wondered why guys were so quick to bury him, when IMHO he was a classic chickenshit heel. He threw a great punch and was believable all around. Yeah, he wasn't Flair, but as a tag worker especially he was great.
ReplyDeleteI saw a clip of him from not too long ago training some guys in his gym, and he came across as lucid, likeable, and like he knew what he was doing.. Pretty much the opposite of everything else I've seen the last few years. If only he had decided to age a little more gracefully.
ReplyDeleteIn interviews everyone gives Fit Finley massive props as a trainer.
ReplyDeleteSlightly thread-jacking, but read this week that FCW might get the chop.
If HHH has shit for brains he'd set up a couple of proper development territories and pay Finley, Scott D'Amore, Cornett and Al Snow to run them.
You'd have one down south and one up north so that the trainees would learn how to work different audiences, and maybe send them to Lance Storm's school for a grounding in mat wrestling as well. Round it off with a few months working for All-Star in the UK and Michinoko and you might have some decent new talent.
Is this a new rumor or just a retread of the one from several weeks ago?
ReplyDeleteFoley, I believe, would be excellent in the role of a trainer or agent who helps the young guys with their promos. Maybe this way we'd have less script.
ReplyDeleteTerry Gordy is one of the very rare, maybe the only, case of the big "hoss" of the team also being the best worker.
ReplyDeleteProbably someone who can work but will never be a success in the business would make for a good agent, someone like Tyson Kidd or Trent Baretta. For someone that's accomplished more, obviously Bryan would be great. Cena could really excel at it, honestly, because he actually has a good eye for talent and a good attitude about younger workers, but he's probably too much of a success that he'd ever be in that role.
ReplyDeleteI would be very surprised if Jericho never works in any form of backstage role.
ReplyDeleteyeah, Regal seems a no-brainer, too.
ReplyDeleteI think the future of developmental is going to be tough, because we no longer have guys who traveled around playing hugely different characters anymore.
ReplyDeleteYou take a guy like Raven, who played the talented pretty boy heel, the goofball preppie with no reason to be there and the sadistic madman who's only goal in life was to screw with people.
Who are we going to see getting that kind of career experience in this day and age?Seriously, go watch him as Scotty Flamingo, Scotty Polo and then his ECW run as Raven. Same wrestler, three completely different characters.Since it's so hard to reinvent yourself these days (Lord Tensai, anyone?), I'm not sure what can be done to help guys move forward NOW, much less in the future.Beyond that though, I'd have to think a guy like Daniel Bryan is an absolute sure thing as a future road agent/trainer. At the very least, he could help guys fine tune their ring work and (hopefully) tap into a presentation of themselves that would get over.
It might sound crazy, but I think Kane would flourish in this role. He's got a terrific work ethic, knows what it's like to have to get over a shitty story line and seems to be non-controversial and well liked by guys in the back. It would be great for the booking team if they had someone who could stand up and say "No, this angle sucks, and I should know."
ReplyDeletethe problem is that the WWE traditionally uses that kind of pairing to get the bodyguard over, not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteOh, absolutely, I was just speaking in terms of Miz's character-motivation, not if it was actually a good move or not.
ReplyDeletea new rumor, apparently they're moving some stuff down to Orlando next month and on forward
ReplyDeleteThey would've had someone like that and his name is Jake Roberts, that's at least one of the reasons why they won't hire him, (of course the other known infamous reasons we won't go into)
ReplyDeleteWhat about R-Truth? He just turned 40 and he's in spectacular shape, so he clearly knows his physical conditioning. He also seems to be extremely good at creating his own character motivation when the booking team has nothing for him- while most WWE wrestlers smolder with generic rage, R-Truth has thrown healthy doses of paranoia, seen-it-all experience, and mid-life crisis into his persona.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Vince himself responsible for the crazy gimmick Truth now has? That kinda goes against the idea that the booking team has done nothing for him but I do agree he's suffered from a lack of interview time in the recent weeks. With the May PPV being in North Carolina though I hope he gets a fairly high profile match at it.
ReplyDeleteImagine Scott Steiner as a booker, guys?! It would make for fascinating tv.
ReplyDeleteHe's actually helping Billy Corgan book Resistance Pro.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Bryan doing anything backstage after his in-ring career is over, I think he'd be much more likely to move overseas and so missionary work somewhere. He's kind of a hippie.
ReplyDeleteI think Matt Striker is one of those out of the box choices. Complete jobber in the ring but a huge, huge "student of the game" who would be great at finishes and making sense of creative's wishes for talent.
ReplyDeleteUm...Edge. I can't think of any guy who's still pretty young wrestling wise who played as many gimmick as him.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Edge, Christian is a fantastic all around talent who's expressed interest in staying in the business.
Dolph Ziggler isn't a great seller. He bumps well, but I really can't think of any time he's sold an injury so he can't his his moves anymore or alters the finish in some manner.
ReplyDeleteGood trainers would be guys that A) aren't physical or charismatic freaks (since that can't be taught) B) are good wrestlers or do a lot of subtle things to get a gimmick/angle over. ADR for example, does a bunch of stuff to give his heel performance depth, that'd be great for an agent. I agree with Cody Rhodes, Orton might not be a bad finish guy (I hate them but the crowd thinks otherwise).
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the bumps off the moves though, after he gets hit with stuff he sells the effect of them really well. He'll go all spindly and loose limbed when he takes a hit like he just got completely clobbered. I dunno of specific instances where he's ever had to sell a body part being worked over til the end of the match, but that's probably just due to the fact that he doesn't get a lot of long matches where that kind of thing is necessary. But if he were in one, he'd do it.
ReplyDeleteOrton would teach everyone "how the business works" in that narrow minded old school backstabbing uncooperative way that he grew up with, and we'd have a whole generation of entitled shit bags refusing to job or sell for each other. It'd be just like the 80s again!
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's not the same thing.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't go from the dark and brooding Edge and then, the next year, was a guy named Matt Masterson or something. He changed over time as the same character.
There's a world of difference between being Sexton Hardcastle in the indies and being Damon Striker, Job Boy for two shows in WCW and actually playing different gimmicks on the big stage.
Now, what Edge DID do was evolve his character over time and that really is quite an achievement. In that respect, he might be able to teach guys how to move forward without resorting to a complete reboot.
Okay, character=/=gimmick. Considering that character is what WWE cares about, and not gimmick, wouldn't Edge be more useful than Raven?
ReplyDeleteApprently that's how the business should be. There seems to be quite a few people on this blog that dont' want wrestlers to be selfless or care more about performing than making money.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, there's a lot of times where he pops out a dropkick in that last two minutes of a match after he's been getting the shit kicked out of him all night. He sells about as Cena IMO.
ReplyDeleteI'd put Foley into the booking meetings, but keep him away from the road agent role. I wouldn't want anyone to try 1/2 the stuff he did in order to become famous.
ReplyDelete