Hey Scott,
Since there is so much incessant whining on this site I figured I would go the opposite direction and ask; what are some instances in which the booking and payoff of an angle are pretty much done to perfection? Just going off the top of my head I would list the following: The Triple H/Undertaker/Michaels Hell in the Cell Match, The Warrior vs Savage retirement match, and the Big Bossman vs the Mountie Jailhouse match. I had to list the last one because The Mountie totally had it coming and it was SO much fun to watch him get dragged out of the Garden and later in Jail. I'm sure I am leaving out a lot but like I said I just listed the first things that came to mind.
Mike
There might be less "whining" if WWE didn't suck so bad much of the time.
As for the question, I would add Hogan v. Savage from Wrestlemania 4 to Wrestlemania 5 to that list, the Warrior win over Honky Tonk Man, Steamboat over Savage, the Austin v. Dude Love at Over the Edge 98, and Rock v. HHH at Backlash 2000.
I'd say the 'E did a good job booking Flair up to his retirement match against Michaels, with the whole "if Flair loses another match, he has to retire" stip. While the final match wasn't that terrific, the angle probably couldn't have been booked much better, with Flair finding ways to keep winning singles matches until the inevitable.
ReplyDeleteI would add WCW Bash at the Beach 1996 to that list.
ReplyDeleteOlder fans might have a different perspective, but I had no access to the internet at the time. Hall and Nash jumping ship was a huge deal, and their teasing of a third man had my mind racing.
There were alot of people I imagined showing up at that PPV, but Hulk Hogan turning heel was absolutely unthinkable.
That's pretty much how my 15 year old brain took it at the time...I was utterly blown away.
ReplyDeleteWhat about that one Canadian dude who won the Royal Rumble in 2004 and then embraced his long time friend Eddie Guerrero when they both became World Champions followin' Main Event of Wrestlemania XX?
ReplyDeleteHHH/Batista. Especially impressive since it was essentially a Plan B (Orton of course being Plan A). They hit ALL the right notes, including:
ReplyDelete-the Chamber match at NYR (where HHH could've saved him but didn't... but left a smidge of doubt)
-Batista standing up to HHH re: their "bet" and the money he owed him
-Batista helping HHH beat Edge in Japan and then staring at the title as HHH held it high
-Batista not being the typical idiot babyface (I'm looking at YOU Sting!)
-the climactic contract signing with the thumbs down (and the huge pop it got)
It might be my favorite feud ever, definitely top 3 (with Bret/Austin and Savage/Warrior).
I'm a sucker for young up and comer vs established legend. I thought Jeff Hardy's path to the world title (and feud with HHH) was great. More the HHH-specific stuff cause they did have the "Jeff getting pulled from Survivor Series" twist added to his road to the title.
ReplyDeleteI always thought the HHH/Hardy feud culminating in Jeff's first title win could've been a great storyline for WM.
Hogan as the turncoat vs. WCW is still the greatest pay off to an angle ever, imho.
ReplyDeleteI was in my early 20s at the time and it still floored me.
Absolutely agree, I was so pumped for when Batista finally kicked Flair and HHH's ass. It was just absolutely perfect booking that MADE Batista, and elevated him to a level he perhaps was never intended for.
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered if Batista wasn't always Plan A all along, given how well they booked him and how poorly they booked Orton. I know we have enough evidence over the years to believe that they luck in to most of their successes, but maybe this one was on purpose!
ReplyDeleteJericho/Shawn Michaels feud in 2008, Jericho wanted to change his whole persona as we know, and what made it so natural was the fact he was RIGHT throughout the whole deal (Shawn faking injury) despite the crowd still rooting for HBK.. it gave a PURPOSE for Jericho to act the way he did post Y2J era, his character naturally evolved because of the booking and the crowd response (which worked exactly how it was intended), rather than a forced change of persona. He was RIGHT about the crowd being hypocrites for cheering Shawn and not him, and he was right Shawn was actually the asshole in the first place.
ReplyDeleteHow do you have a topic called "Perfect Booking" and not mention the whole saga between Flair/Savage/Perfect/Warrior, and, eventually, Razor? It ran across all four of the "Big Four" PPVs IIRC (can't remember if Rumble did anything with it), and Mania twice if you wanna staple it to the earlier Warrior/Savage feud. More relevantly to my original complaint, though, was the great Perfect face turn that capped it off right before Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteScott, don't forget about your love for the dog collar tag match b/w Raven/Richards and the Pitbulls in '95 ECW.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you're going all the way back to when Jeff faced HHH on PPV for the title shot (Armageddon '07, which he then lost at the Rumble), but assuming that it fits into your equation, I was there for that match live when he won, and it was a cool moment indeed.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the bit which IMO made this angle. HHH at the end of RAW holding his belt high in the air and Batista raises the arm that has the title, and then his gaze drifts slowly up to the title and back to HHH, who picks up on what he's doing... and fade to black.
ReplyDeleteI think for a lot of people that was the defining point of the feud, more than the thumbs down contract signing or when Batista was standing outside the locker room listening to HHH badmouth him.
An added bonus to that feud was that it flowed so well out of the Michaels/Batista feud, which itself came out of the Flair retirement angle. That covers about 10 months worth of shows, which is amazing given how WWE books these days.
ReplyDeleteAgreed -- the great part about it too that people often forget is how they carefully laid it out to make it look like the third guy could have been either Sting or Luger as well. They hammered the point home about Sting in the commentary with Tony mentioning that it was actually Sting that took Luger out and not Nash. I know I was half expecting Luger to do the run-in at the end as well.
ReplyDeleteI think the Flair/Savage feud leading into WrestleMania VIII was pretty much perfect and a nice surprise too, with Savage getting revenge on Flair despite all conventional wisdom at the time that said Flair walks out of WrestleMania as the champ. I love angles where the two guys can make me believe that they actually hate each others guts and this was one of those feuds. The buildup to the Warrior/Savage match and "Which corner will Mr. Perfect be in?" was pretty stellar too, although I wasn't a huge fan of how it impacted the actual ending of the match.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite booked WCW matches was the Goldberg vs Raven US title match where Goldberg won the title.
ReplyDeleteThe only negative was that it came on the heels of Raven winning the title the night before and I think it would have been better as a long-term payoff -- but I suppose you have to strike while the iron is hot in that case.
The way the match was laid out was pretty genius (I assume Raven was responsible for putting it together) as it basically made Goldberg look like an unstoppable monster against a worthy opponent and paid off the whole angle where Raven would get out of matches using the Flock's involvement or substitution with the "fans" finally getting sick of it and tossing him back into the ringside area for him to be slaughtered. Crazy heat too.
http://youtu.be/VgVNscmCXHk?t=4m58s
I doubt it. Orton was given very protective booking through the 1st half of 2004 leading to his title win. If I recall correctly the only clean job he did was dropping the IC title to Edge (which was the logical conclusion to that angle). Batista on the other hand was jobbing to Benoit (and Edge too I believe) clean on Raw as late as September (maybe even October).
ReplyDeleteAs much as I loved that feud, there's always been a few things about it that kept me from placing it at the top of my list. #1: the whole Elizabeth part would have been better had they come up with it *before* the match was booked. It always felt like it was shoe-horned awkwardly in there. #2: I hated that they originally named Hogan the #1 contender before (again, awkwardly) transitioning to Savage. And #3: I always hated Flair ultimately coming out on top. I was in full mark mode so that always left a bitter taste in my mouth.
ReplyDeletewhat are you talking about? Jericho won the title a lot earlier than 2004?
ReplyDeleteAustin vs. Michaels WrestleMania 14. at that point it was a letdown that Michaels couldn't compete at the In Your House in Texas but I think in retrospect it's safe to say it worked much better that way.
ReplyDeleteThe booking of Bret Hart for the entire year between Survivor Series 1996 and 1997. Absolute destruction of Hart's character and fanbase. He's portrayed as boring, old and miserable.
ReplyDeleteLike him for being kind of like a rock star or for his athletic abilities? Then you should like Shawn Michaels instead.
Shawn too flamboyant/girly for you, or you like Hart for his blue-collar qualities? Then you should like Austin instead, or Shamrock who is introduced as a family man and described frequently as being a real man's man.
Like Hart for being a submission specialist? Then you should again, like Shamrock instead.
Determined to like one of the Harts? Then hey, check out Owen, the 'real Hitman' of the Hart Foundation.
Bret's final title reign sees him barely squeak past his opponents, with PPV opponents including The Patriot and one month prior to SS '97 he's not even defending the title, instead taking part in a meaningless 'flag match'.
Even the build-up to SS '97 has D-X laughing that Michaels has already beaten Bret once for the title, the previous week HHH built him; with Bret's every RAW match featuring Shawn and HHH mocking him on commentary.
MONTHS previous to the Montreal Screwjob, it's really easy to watch all the obvious little burials. There are enough shots of Vince at commentary to foreshadow events that I can totally buy why some consider the screwjob to be a work. Makes me wonder if even there was some kind of work intended at some point that wasn't then to happen. It seems like Vince's reveal as owner was teased out for months as the 'worst-kept secret' in the WWF. But if so, I don't think it was intended originally to lead to Montreal.
Really makes me wonder if the original intended Shawn v Bret rematch (King of the Ring, I think?) with Bret promising to never wrestle again in the WWF if he lost wasn't supposed to be some kind of huge catalyst that obviously, never happened.
So while I don't agree with it, the total burial of Bret on every level, a weekly, year-long event, I'd have to say is perfect.
Goldberg was built perfectly up until his world title win. That match against Hogan still gives me goosebumps and that match took place in the right arena, it just should've been a pay per view. And Starrcade 98 should've been Sting v Goldberg.
ReplyDeleteI think the Cena - Punk booking leading up to and including a week or so after Money In The Bank last year was pretty flawless. Not quite as good after that.
ReplyDeleteFlair's comeback in 93 against Vader and beating the guy no one thought could be beat was pretty solid booking. Too bad the rest of the show sucked and it's not as memorable as it should have been.
ReplyDeletePerfect eliminated Flair at the 93 Rumble, so, you are correct
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Greatest of all time to me as well. When people talk about an angle like UT's streak being built up over time, I think about how Hogan's 12 year run as a face perfectly dovetailed into that turn. Once you pull the trigger there is no going back; and of all the times to do it that was the absolute perfect time with the absolute maximum impact. Changed the business.
ReplyDeleteFoley not getting the job done as Mankind and having to become Cactus Jack to challenge HHH in the Street Fight at Royal Rumble 00, then not getting the job done there and putting it all on the line at No Way Out just as himself in HiaC. Perfect booking and two perfect matches. Well, maybe not quite perfect if only due to timing, since the HIAC should have been at Mania, but that doesn't really effect the quality of the angle as we saw it.
ReplyDeleteGreat YouTube link also - the quality was great.
ReplyDeleteYou don't hear about that match a lot when they talk about Goldberg's best (usually shoehorned into a DDP conversation) but that was really good.
Raven takes the spear great also.
In recent memory: Punk/Hardy with Punk's slow turn among the best I can remember. The last match was Loser Leaves WWE and, so far, the stipulation has stuck!
ReplyDeleteHogan's title run from 1996-1997 and Triple H's title run in the first half of 2000. Both masterful examples of how to make a title really matter- put it on a powerful asshole with a stranglehold over the company and tease having him lose it every single week.
ReplyDeleteSpecial mention to the Triple H title run, as everyone (and I mean EVERYONE, from Al Snow to Tazz to Taka Michinoku) got a shot, and Hunter made everyone look like they were one lucky break away from taking him down. For those few months, Triple H could make anyone a main-eventer for a night just by scowling at them.
I think Les Whinen ought to do less whinin' and more thinkin'!
ReplyDeleteAhh Sideshow Bob.
ReplyDeleteCrispin Wah winning the Rumble and getting the strap at WMXX.
ReplyDeleteHow quickly we forget Cena and Punk; a lot of genuine speculation going into the match (hard to do in today's spoiler-happy world) and all they did was deliver a five-star classic in front of one of the hottest WWE crowds the company ever had. That was a genuine MOMENT.
Hogan vs. Andre, from the build to WM3 all the way through to the final blowoff at SummerSlam 88. Yes, the matches stunk from a technical standpoint, but the execution of the angle was off the charts.
ReplyDeleteI think Batista was booked well, and got over because of it, because he wasn't Plan A. Had they of known he was the guy they were going with all along they'd no doubt have blown it. He would've gotten beat down my Evolution and been the naive smiling baby face the next week.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Hogan turning heel never crossed my mind. I was expecting any number of WWF/Ex-WWF guys, I thought it was more likely that Bret Hart would show up than Hulk Hogan turning heel. It just seemed so unthinkable it didn't even cross my mind.
ReplyDeleteIt still bothers me that Flair/Savage didn't close Mania, instead we get a Warrior/Papa Shango run in to close the show.
ReplyDeleteMy only complaint about Jeff's path to the title is that he didn't beat Triple H for it, the guy he was chasing for the title almost the entire time.
ReplyDeleteWarrior v Hogan at WM6, Savage v Flair at WM8, Bret v Owen at WM X were all perfectly booked. I'd also say Honky Tonk Man's entire run as IC champion.
ReplyDeleteIf I recall, the one Scott Keith ***** ECW match is largely ***** because of it being booked fantastically, so I'd say that should be on Scott's list.
ReplyDeleteRock winning the title at Backlash hasn't been mentioned yet it seems. Everything came together that night; Rock finally getting the title, Austin seemingly getting revenge against the guys who put him out, Steph getting shoved down by Linda, and Earl Hebner counting the pin on the guy who fired him.
ReplyDeletePerfect.
Normally I would agree, but I actually preferred it at the time -- because it actually put the outcome in doubt. Everyone thought Flair was walking out with the title, especially once they put the match on in the middle of the show.
ReplyDeletePeople here have had to right to "whine" about WWE these past few months but I myself consider all the post-Mania stuff a clean slate since Vince was handling the Mania build up by himself. Now that Hunter is more in charge I'm expecting things to get better and judging by the shows so far I'm pleased. It all comes down to how they'll handle Ambrose though, they fuck that up and I might be done for awhile.
ReplyDeleteHogan and Savage is only perfect from an artistic point of view, but it isn't as a business one.
ReplyDeleteDuring Savage's time as champion, he and Hogan were drawing the same (or similar numbers) headlining separate house shows. Once Hogan beat Savage, Savage's drawing power dropped, and nobody else reached that level.
Giving the title to Hogan was the logical payoff to the story, but it ultimately only served to fix what wasn't broken. Hogan didn't need the title, and the loss hurt Randy's drawing power on top, so hindsight clearly tells you that was a bad move.
They kinda screwed the pooch afterwards with it (surprise!) but Test vs. Shane was probably the absolute perfect pinnacle of Vince Russo's brand of booking. The match itself was flawlessly booked, highlighting both guys abilities while ignoring their weaknesses and drawing the crowd in. And the run up was great too, with Test hunting and destroying the MSP, because he was a man dammit and Stephanie dug him and they weren't going to let her jerkass big brother control her life.
ReplyDeleteHow about the first 18 months of nWo. Things totally fell apart as soon as the bell rang for Hogan-Sting, but before that WCW was king.
ReplyDeleteGreat link. I remember watching that in college and the room erupting. People just wanted to see Goldberg destroy Raven. Him picking up Reese was great, too.
ReplyDeleteLegend has it that Goldberg was completely gassed after this and collapsed in the locker room.
One of my favorites during that run (outside of Taka) was when they pulled a name out of a bingo thing, and Finkel smiles and announces, "It's Rikishi!"
ReplyDeleteThe whole locker rooms looks back at a nodding Rikishi and starts clapping while a pissed Triple H walks out. Simple touches, but awesome.
Piper/Adonis. Match sucks, yes, but the angle was tremendous.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it really is pretty insane how the Screwjob, despite being a real life event, was the PERFECT conclusion for Bret Hart's character arc in 1997. All year, starting from the Royal Rumble, the bastard was paranoid that he was getting screwed over and everyone just thought he was a nut making excuses...only for it to all at last be validated.
ReplyDeleteWhat's amazing about that is how well WCW did in building up Hogan as a "WCW guy" in just 2 years after being synonymous with the WWF for so long. So well that when he turned on the company, it was absolutely stunning. I was 19 at the time and remember talking to a girl I was seeing who also liked wrestling after the show. Both of us were furious at Hogan, which shows how well the angle was executed.
ReplyDeleteThat's when HHH was pure gold. He made it look like Taka Michinoku was actually going to pull off the biggest upset of all time and win the WWF title. Steve Austin would do the same a year or so later with Spike Dudley in another really well executed mini-angle.
ReplyDeleteAgree with all those that you listed. Also want to throw in Michaels/Taker from 2010 as a modern example.
ReplyDeleteLies, the title was vacated at wm XX after HHH and HBK lost to no-one.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Remember that the Michaels/Jericho fued was booked almost entirely by the two wrestlers. They were basically telling Vince, "this is what we are going to do," and he trusted those two enough to make a compelling angle.
ReplyDelete