Far from the 1.9 million that the ESPN guy was talking about, but 1.3 million buys should definitively show that everyone in the midcard whining about Rock taking spots can suck it and like it.
Far from the 1.9 million that the ESPN guy was talking about, but 1.3 million buys should definitively show that everyone in the midcard whining about Rock taking spots can suck it and like it.
And the fans that came back to wrestling for Punk can enjoy watching a part-timer take all of the credit for it (at guys like Punk's expense to boot!)
ReplyDeleteWho says Hulkamania's dead? It's alive and well and has an eyebrow!
The fans that came back for the Summer of Punk were gone again by September. There was absolutely no measurable increase in ratings, buyrates or attendance. The buyrate of WM was entirely due to people buying into the Wrestlemania name, plus a percentage of the regular audience who wanted to see Rock v. Cena.
ReplyDeleteI guess I must be the only person in the entire world that came back to wrestling for Punk (despite the sentiment being repeated all over this blog and elsewhere).
ReplyDeleteI guess I bought that show for Rock, despite not being able to possibly give less of a shit about a character that was pulled out of 2002-stasis, Captain America style. My bad!
It seems unlikely that Punk's hot run last summer had much to do with a good buyrate most of a year later. ..At a show that traditionally has a higher than usual buyrate. ..And happens to have a massive headlining match.
ReplyDeleteClearly it was all Punk.
I'm guessing quite a lot of those buys were due to Brock, that's the only reason I watched any of it.
ReplyDeleteI didn't suggest it was all Punk but thanks.
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldn't it have something to do with a better buyrate a year later? It was the first time since that hot summer that the guy that people claim to have come back for was actually booked into something interesting. That's why I bought the show (well and for Bryan but whatever).
It's fun, we get to blame the booking for Rock not drawing at Survivor Series, but Punk not increasing buyrates is all Punk's fault, having nothing to do with the booking all through the fall.
@ChinWins, sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't...this is the latter.
ReplyDeleteThere are a bunch of reasons why people buy WM these days, different wrestlers, because it's WM, etc. However, when you set records, you have to look at what changed from all the previous years and it becomes hard to argue that the main draw (i.e. The Rock) is not the primary reason. It may not have been the reasons you bought the PPV, but you are a smark with the rest of us smark that probably would've ended up buying the show sans Rock anyways. This is based on the buys outside of the nrmal buyers can be brought in and like him or not, the dude is an international movie star who by the way was the 2nd biggest star during the attitude era.
ChinWins
Not sure what's there to debate.
Yeah those 30,000 extra buys Punk contributed from MITB compared to 1.3 million lmao
ReplyDeleteOk ok...let's assume only half of that was due to Rock....(an assumption that would likely shortchange The Rock's impact on the buys)......still over 500,000.
Yeah..you probably were the only one.
ReplyDeleteWanna know who the most interesting character was in that Punk/HHH feud? Kevin Nash. That's not trolling, either.
That's not to say Punk didn't have some interesting moments. The
This show only got 30,000 more buys than WM 23.
ReplyDeleteIt only got 260,000 more buys than last year.
Where exactly do you get 500,000 from?
"lmao".
It has to be a feud that people care about.
ReplyDeleteIt was a tag match involving Rock and Cena against 2 people that fans view as mid-carders at best (Miz and Truth).
Punk vs. Cena worked because people actually care about Cena. Punk vs. Charlie Haas, on the other hand, would not have worked.
Begs the question: Why did the 25th Annual Survivor Series at MSG featuring "Never Before/Never Again" The Rock do so poorly?
ReplyDeleteRock was heavily involved in last year's WM build, to the point where Miz was considered an afterthought (which he was). They even wrote it into the storyline as you recall.
ReplyDeleteAs for WM 23, it had Cena v
I gotta say, the Rock is sitting in an awfully pretty position. Is there anybody else in the entire wrestling world who gets all of the credit for two WrestleMania successes and none of the blame for a disappointing Survivor Series turnout. Hell, he can even give a crappy promo and people will insist that he did it on purpose, to throw his opponent a bone.
ReplyDeleteThis WM was up 300k+ from last year. Is 50k the number of buys it had more than WM 23? That was 5 years ago, in a better economy and with another mainstream celebrity (Trump) selling the show.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how you can't give Rock the majority of the credit. 2 years ago a well built card with some big matches on top (Cena/Batista, HBK/Taker with the retirement stip) drew about 890k. Last year a less appealing card (Cena/Miz, HHH/Taker with no stakes) but with Rock "hosting" drew just over a million (I think it was like 1.05).
You can enjoy Punk more than Rock. Just don't act like he deserves anywhere near the credit as Rock for the big number. I think removing Cena from the card hurts it more than removing Punk, so he's not even 2nd on the list (or 3rd if you count Brock).
I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong in this argument - but I came back for the Summer of Punk and Mania was the first PPV I bought in about 10 years. And I like Rock as a performer but couldn't give two shits about his match with Cena. I may be the minority.
ReplyDeleteCena vs Charlie Haas wouldn't have drawn nearly as good either. Punk's involvement definitely had a lot to do with MITB's buyrate rising a little bit, though not really with WM28.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely I would have ended up buying the show sans Rock, I bought it for Punk. I came to wrestling after 5-6 years away for Punk. I had no idea Rock was even involved in last years WM. The last PPV I bought was MitB. Judging by the sentiments being repeated around here I'm not completely alone.
ReplyDeleteThat's all I'm saying, I think maybe the 30,000 extra buys over WM23 (or 260,000 buys extra buys from last year) could've conceivably come just as much from Punk fans, Brock fans, and Rock fans.
Brock especially is an interesting bit on this whole thing, all I've read over the last two weeks is that Brock by himself can outdraw the promotion, why shouldn't we credit his highly advertised contract signing before the show? Shouldn't Brock being teased be worth at least as much as a Rocky run-in?
I won't bother arguing anymore, I don't want to spam this thread. I'll just end with, going by this logic, Donald Trump is apparently worth 250,000 PPV buys for a Manager vs. Manager/Hair vs. Hair match.
Because Rock and Cena were facing 2 scrubs (R Truth and Miz).
ReplyDeleteIf they'd faced HHH and HBK, it would have probably been a different story.
Why would you give Rock half a million buyrates when it was only increased by 260,000? That's some fun convenient math you have there.
ReplyDeleteGoing by your logic Donald Trump in a hair match is worth 250,000 buys. You don't get to credit HBK/Cena, those people were known quantities, same as Punk and Jericho.
Ahh...so Rocky gets a pass for drawing nothing to Survivor Series because of the booking.
ReplyDeleteBut Punk not drawing well for the shitty fall feuds he was given = all Punks fault.
Baggy eyed scrub, yup, that'll never get over. He should change his tight colors too, no one likes black right?
It's funny how people backstage complained that Rock wasn't "building anything for the future" by coming in and taking someone else's "spot" only to leave right after WM anyway, yet they don't offer the same criticism towards HHH and Taker. They're pretty much "retired", no one was being built for the future from their match, they were taking up TV time and a WM spot only to leave again right afterwards anyway, yet no one complains about them. And don't say it's because they've been with the company for years whereas Rock left for several years because the same logic applies.
ReplyDeleteEven Hornswoggle criticized The Rock, even though he only has a job because people think midgets are funny lmao. I hope it got under a lot of people's skin backstage when Rock went over Cena.
Re: your last point about Trump. Yes, Donald Trump's storyline IS cited as the reason WM23 held the buys record. He's always been given the credit. You never hear people talking about Cena/HBK or Batista/Taker as being huge money drawing rivalries.
ReplyDeleteThat Trump angle gave them major mainstream pub.
No no no, I'm not trying to suggest it's ALL Punk either, or even a majority. I think Brock has more to do with it than Punk even.
ReplyDeleteI just find it funny that everyone is in a rush to give Rock all the credit when at best he was worth maybe 300,000.
If a potential Rock run-in was worth 300k last year, why isn't a potential Brock run-in worth 300k this year? That's all. =)
You are 1 person. I'm sure "one person" would have continued to buy WCW PPVs consisting of The Dog vs. The Maestro as well. Unfortunately everybody else wouldn't have.
ReplyDeleteNo sense in arguing, the numbers pretty well speak for themselves, no matter how many excuses you make.
Ok, before everyone starts arguing, I have compiled some stats. These are irrefutable. I've gathered the information from the WWE website and press releases. I'm going to assume, since they're a public company, these are accurate.
ReplyDeleteWM20 886K
WM21 983K
WM22 958K
WM23 1,188K
WM24 1,058K
WM25 960K
WM26 885K
WM27 1,059K
WM28 1,300K
Not sure there's much to argue about. Rock is not the only reason it was record breaking, but he is the main reason. Look at the huge increases from previous years and if 2 weeks prior to WM27, they cut the Miz out and announce it's Rock-Cena? Yeah, WM27 would've done even better.
To support Rock's drawing power you have this, Survivor Series...badly booked Survivor Series:
SurvSer'10 244K
SurvSer'11 281K
15% increase year over year. In my line of work, that's completely acceptable. In wrestling, they should be ecstatic for a ppv that has been decreasing each year and was booked pretty bad.
Now, Punk. MITB. No doubt, this was his shining moment:
MITB'10 165K
MITB'11 185K
12% increase year over year. Also nice.
However, what happened after they rushed his return and set up SummerSlam as Champion vs. Champion?
SS'10 350K
SS'11 302K
That's a 15% loss. Now, I don't blame Punk entirely, bad booking, yada yada, but Rock increased the year before against Miz & Truth??!?! What?
Long winded story short, Rock is still a draw. Just look at his movie returns, the dude brings them in.
I actually expected it to be a bit higher, given that they have been adding new international markets every year for the past several years -- I thought they'd really crush the old record, but I wonder if domestic buys will end up better than usual this year due to nostalgia, while perhaps international markets will be a bit softer as a lot of them are not as familiar with the late 1990s product. I believe international buys have been making up about 40% of their buys each year for the past couple of years, so it will be interesting to see the breakdown once it's released (I assume that will be in May, unless they leak some numbers in the next few days).
ReplyDeleteSo you make up numbers and then say they speak for themselves?
ReplyDeleteHaha...troll on brother.
Detail what was interesting at all about Kevin Nash.
ReplyDeleteWM28 +110k vs. WM23.
ReplyDeletePeople (as in, alot of people, not just a handful) actually cared about seeing HBK/Cena though, and with good reason. Punk/Jericho was placed after HHH/Taker on the card, and basically paled in comparison. Jericho's a good hand to have around (similar to having a sid Vicious or somebody)......and
ReplyDeleteThat's why I'm surprised this buyrate beat that one. Nothing against Rock-Cena, but with all the publicity that the Donald Trump thing got, I wouldn't have thought this year's event would do more buyrates than that one.
ReplyDeleteCorrection, Rock did draw against Miz/Truth, +40k or so. I actually was surprised when I saw that.
ReplyDeleteThink John Cena deserves some credit, if for only being at the Rock's level. Every great face needs a heel....and Cena played the role to perfection & then some.
ReplyDeleteIt also makes me think they left some money on the table at Survivor Series but not running a real match. Cena & Rock against real competition, or Cena & Rock in a 5-on-5 match with a real angle behind, could've been pretty big.
I had a feeling the buyrate was going to be huge since everyone I follow on Twitter - I mean everyone - was tweeting about the show. I don't think you can build an audience through Twitter for wrestling (as noted by the disappointing Raw ratings pre-WM) but it's an excellent way to gauge what's got people interested.
If I'm the WWE, I would cut the number of PPVs down to 6 or 8 and present them all as mega-shows.
The site I read this on (411) made a point of adding "that's what they're saying", which I inferred to mean that they believe it may not be entirely accurate (ala the Silverdome crowd). Is it possible for WWE to fudge these numbers? I thought as a publicly traded company they HAD to release honest numbers. Anybody know for sure? Is it possible it didn't actually break the record?
ReplyDeletePunk and Triple H both got better reactions from the crowd than Kevin Nash did.
ReplyDeleteJohn Cena absolutely deserves credit. I said once before, it takes 2 to tango. Rock vs. Daniel Bryan would not have worked.....nor would Cena vs. Punk. Either of those headline events may have done a decent buyrate (decent, compared to December to Dismember or something) just because of it being WM, but certainly not 1.3 mill.
ReplyDeleteI was just going to post the same numbers -- it is pretty impressive how WrestleMania has become a fixture, even in a weak year otherwise for the WWE, especially from 20 on. 19 I think came out quite a bit lower than any of these, around 550k or so.
ReplyDeleteI've been working on a project for the last year to correct a lot of the misinformation regarding older PPV shows going back to the 1980s where information is available and hope to post it soon.
Nope, you don't get to decide that people cared more about HBK/Cena than any other match. There's no way to quantify that. Just as there is no way to quantify that people cared more about Punk (despite people repeating that sentiment all over the internet and even in this thread).
ReplyDeleteYou don't get to argue that my reasoning is wrong, and then use the same reasoning to support your argument.
Daniel Bryan was on the show this year. He wasn't last year.
ReplyDeleteRock was on the show both years.
Year with Rock/Bryan did better than show with just Rock.
You do the math.
YES YES YES YES YES!!!!
: P
(in 3...2...1...)
Speaking of stock, on the strong news of BREAKING THEIR PPV BUY RECORD...the stock has fallen to a new low...yet again.
ReplyDeleteSo the lesson to be learned....Rock and Cena could have teamed up to face Techno Team 2000 and they'd have still increased the buyrate slightly from the previous year lol.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should have put Punk in that tag match too, to make it seem like he had something to do with the increase.
Remember when they named a show after their most popular star? They should do that again...
ReplyDeleteFriday Night Yes Yes Yes!
?
Scroll up and look at Flair4DaGold's numbers if you still have questions lol.
ReplyDeleteThey beat the old record by 300,000 buys, roughly. I believe that is crushing the old record.
ReplyDeleteDo agree the breakdown will be interesting, NA vs. the World.
Apparently Rock did increase buys from the previous year, according to those posted numbers. I don't blame Punk at all for not drawing, I blame WWE for thinking he's a guy that millions upon millions of people would be interested in seeing.
ReplyDeleteNo, they have to by law give correct and accurate financial information.
ReplyDeleteYes, it is possible for them to 'fudge' these numbers a bit at this point, in that they're only estimated numbers right now. Generally speaking though, their estimates have come pretty close to their actual numbers in most cases. This was NOT the case when they were still a private company -- their PR guy would go and claim twice the number of buys for shows routinely, or retroactively fudge numbers to make the current years show look better than the previous years show.
ReplyDeleteTypically they publish an 'approximate' figure in their annual reports as well for the current year, but eventually they'll release the numbers or they can be had from other independent sources (Multichannel News often publishes these figures) with a domestic/international breakdown and updates them in next years annual report. I would imagine there is a way to access the exact figures directly as an investor by requesting the information from the company.
Man, that SummerSlam 2010 buyrate tells me the Nexus angle was really hot, even if Punk had cooled by SS 2011.
ReplyDeleteYes I know, they disagree with yours.
ReplyDeleteStill. But you're just trolling, that's what THE TRUTH IS, right? lol
"Rock can't draw without proper booking" but "Punk should be able to draw on his own".
ReplyDeleteThat's the crux of your troll. Good stuff.
Dude, get done with it and post it! I'm a stats geek (of just about any kind). Look forward to seeing it.
ReplyDeleteWhile Daniel Bryan and CM Punk were the world champs for the 1st qtr of the year too. Coincidence????
ReplyDeleteAt least the Hollywood actor and the guy in jorts helped them pop a one-off buyrate for Mania.
Well, decreases and increases from the prior year are interesting, but I could play this card: SummerSlam 2011 featuring Punk and Cena outdrew Survivor Series 2011 by 21k buys. :-8
ReplyDeleteAwesome troll.
ReplyDelete"Anything good they get no credit, anything bad they take all blame."
Cool logic 'bro.
Yeah in terms of buys it is impressive. There have been similar percentage increases from year to year though, I was expecting a greater gain in terms of percentage over last year, although that may have been expecting too much given that last year did better than the past few years.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Maria Menuenos (sp?) get credit for the increased buyrate?
ReplyDeleteDancing With The Stars FTW!
You're way off on Nash. He was a heat sucking machine in that feud.
ReplyDeleteRock headlines a PPV with Cena, 1, 300,000 buys
ReplyDeletePunk headlines a PPV with Cena, 185,000 buys
Yeah, I wonder if investors are getting a little bit ancy at the fact that WrestleMania represents such a big part of the pie each year. You don't see a lot of press-releases from them stating how great the PPV business is the rest of the year. If WrestleMania is a one-off thing and is not a strong indicator of the overall health of the company, than I can imagine people might have a lot of fear that if that show starts to slip, there will be no guarantees that the other areas can make up the difference.
ReplyDeleteWM has become an event, they can present almost anything and people are sold on the name itself. The card can certainly spike the buy rate like this year, but WM is known to everyone.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I can send it along to Scott when I finish and he can post it. Then somebody can go and fix all the Wikipedia articles that are all messed up, due to the source people used which had the most jacked up math ever (luckily that site is no longer online, so all those articles source to a dead site anyways and need to be updated).
ReplyDeleteHell ya it was. If they would've had the balls to really pull the trigger and win that main event, who knows, huh? Man, I'm still pissed at Cena from THAT.
ReplyDeleteFor the purposes of this post realdeal is going to change his logic to dictate that MitB and Wrestlemania are equally promoted shows.
ReplyDeleteGood going realdeal!
I can't wait till Lesnar laughs and no-sells one of Bryan's kicks. The match will probably go longer than 18 seconds though.
ReplyDeleteYeah, we get it, you troll.
ReplyDeleteCongrats on being contrary.
"Hell, he can even give a crappy promo and people will insist that he did it on purpose, to throw his opponent a bone."
ReplyDeleteAgreed 100%.
It's still real to you, huh?
ReplyDeleteI'd never claim to be wise to the horseshit of the market but I wonder if it has something to do with investing so much money into guys that are really only good for one potential payday (at least as far as that's the way they book it).
ReplyDeleteIt can't look good to stockholders to say "Hey yeah, we're going to spend 5 million...hopefully we'll make it back next April."
Yeah, that guy in the jorts really tore it up headlining elimination chamber with Kane, a 19K drop from 2011. It was also the most heavily featured storyline on RAW for the entire lead up...but hey, don't let facts get in the way.
ReplyDeleteNah, I woudln't have used the word "sell" if it was real to me. I'd have said "i can't wait till Lesnar doesn't feel one bit of pain from one of Bryan's girly kicks".
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the ensuing meltdown of Lesnar crushing Bryan in a match would be hilaroius.
I can't imagine why he wouldn't. Sounds fucking awesome.
ReplyDeleteNo need to bleed from between your legs.......it's just PPV numbers. All it did was confirm what most of us already knew.
ReplyDeleteyou must be new here... stay classy champ.
DeleteWell, Rock was already guaranteed to be on the show, run-in or no. Brock was a rumor.
ReplyDeleteYou're feeling a bit embarrassed, considering that even the smarkiest of smarks on here have told you that Rock deserves most of the credit for the WM buyrate. I understand.
ReplyDeleteThat, however, isn't my problem.
I think if they let Lesnar and Bryan have an all out wrestling match, it would be pretty awesome. Bryan has the tenacity in his style that could work well with a big man like Brock. I for one, would be first in line to watch it.
ReplyDeleteYou somehow turned 415,000 buys (the difference between 26 and 28, giving all the credit to Rock for the increase) into "even half of his drawing power is 500,000."
ReplyDeleteYou're just wrong. And the numbers prove it. You spouted off in an effort to be contrary but you just came off looking like a troll.
We get it. You're contrary guy. You guys come and go all the time.
It's nice that you can't argue the convenient change in your logic IN THE SAME SENTENCE.
ReplyDeletelol
Troll on brother!
Brush up on reasons why people invest in companies. Most people do so because they anticipate an up-turn or even a major surge in the company. The Summer of Punk clearly didn't do anything to inspire confidence in investors. And they knew that Rock wouldn't be around long-term.
ReplyDeleteAnd now you're following me post to post, lol.
ReplyDeleteTroll on brother!
I can just about guarantee this was the guy that wrote that awful "Truth is" column that everyone shit on. His first posts are in that thread to defend it and here he is, going post by post, changing his opinion as he goes to be contrary to every single side of the argument.
ReplyDeleteIt's adorable.
The fact that you keep saying "troll" over and over shows that you know I'm right.
ReplyDeleteI have 1.3 million reasons to suggest I am, too. Don't bother arguing, just keep namecalling lol.
Yeah, it would be good to have one spot where we can reference accurate buy rates. If there's one thing I hate in a discussion is not having proper data and since so many people associate quality with ratings/buy rates, it's good to have.
ReplyDeleteI never mentioned the booking........I just think people (lots of them) want to see Rock........and apparently a fraction of those people want to see CM Punk. If anything, I think Rock/Cena wasn't booked as well as it should have been.
ReplyDeleteNo I keep calling you troll because you keep changing your opinion just to be contrary to whichever poster you're talking to. To one poster it's "Cena deserves some of the credit", in another it's "Rock deserves all the credit", in another it's "Suvivor Series buy rates don't count because of booking", in the other it's "Mitb counts because I say so", it just goes on.
ReplyDeleteI can read the thread. You're just a troll.
You got caught calling half of 415,000 "500,000" in an effort to troll. You've been caught blaming Punk and Bryan for the ratings and stock price but not giving them credit for any part of the buyrate.
You're just contrary. We get it.
Crappy promos, great promos, whatever, the dude is entertaining and there's no one like him. I enjoyed every second he was back as i can't believe how I took him for granted back in the attitude era. My love for Austin and WCW got in the way.
ReplyDeleteCould....but again, look who Rock and Cena were facing ? Miz and R-truth. That might as well have been a main event on Raw.
ReplyDeleteAt least Punk/Cena was for a major title. Something else to consider (and I don' thave the info in front of me).....who was on Sunday Night Football the night Rock/Cena teamed up?
It's funny, we (usually) bitch about celebrity involvement at Mania, but the top 4 in that list all had a celebrity as the focus of the build (Trump, Mayweather, Rock twice).
ReplyDeleteIt's him, he admitted it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe CM Punk needs Trump as manager lol.
ReplyDeletelol
ReplyDeleteI've never been here for some of the more legendary trolls (elvy), hopefully this guy develops into something entertaining.
Nah, as much as I didn't agree with the tone of his original e-mail and some of his posts (constant posts) in defense of himself, he did/does make some points I can agree with. Elvylanda was on a hole different level. Plus, he had the added bonus that he misspelled just about every other word and he was a HUGE TNA fan or so that was his main gimmick.
ReplyDeleteWM 26 had a highly anticipated HBK/Taker rematch, along with Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon....which people wanted to see since they'd essentially been "feuding" since 1997.
ReplyDeleteRock is undeniably a special talent and unlike any other. That's why I'm so shocked that so many people loved his work throughout the feud. Even when he was at his babyfaciest (that's right), he was never so pandering and lazy. Some of his stuff was great, don't get me wrong....but A LOT of it was weak and far below his level.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't that prove his point? That the Rock in and of itself wasn't necessarily the draw. It was the story and the competition as well.
ReplyDeleteIf Bryan would be willing to bump like a pinball for Lesnar.....and even hit the occasional big move just to stagger Lesnar throughout the match, I'd say give them 20 minutes to do their thing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the NFL is a huge factor against everything.
ReplyDeleteYou can't use the Miz-Truth reason though, because the idea was that Cena and Rock would not be able to co-exist together and there would be physicality. Look, the ppv went up from the previous year, so people were interested. However, I I think you're being unreasonable as to the quality and importance of Punk.
Yeah, he's not Rock, I agree, but neither is Cena or anyone on this roster. There are 2 people that you can compare him, Austin and Hogan. That's it.
Nice fold.
ReplyDeleteAgree with your first sentence. Was this Rock's best work? Nope, I'll always prefer his '99 and '03 runs. But the build to Cena/Rock was FUN, I anticipated each and every Raw on the road to WM (except the last 2 where it felt like all the major feuds had said all they needed to say). He got Cena to up his game, and they sucked me in to the point it felt real (Cena's crack about Rock's surgery was great, as was Rock's joke about Cena forgetting he was married). It's not about ratings, buyrates, merch sales, stock prices, etc. It's about being entertained, and this year's Mania will always be one of my favorites for that reason.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to hear from the Rock "haters" on this blog: what WM would you have booked without Rock. I don't care what you put on top, whether it's Punk/Cena III (well IV, but you know what I mean) or Punk/Bryan, I'll take what we got for real.
Good stuff. It was a stacked pay per view, I'm not surprised it did so well. Nearly every match could have main evented a PPV on its own.
ReplyDeleteWith this buy-rate does this cement the Rock as the 'biggest' wrestling star of all time?
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree on the Survivor Series comment. They could have done an All-Star 5 on 5, which would have made the Madison Square Garden crowd go nuts...as well as tease some real dissension between Rock and Cena.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I compare it more to WM26's buys since last year was more sold on Rock hosting than it was Cena/Miz.
ReplyDelete885,000 to 1.3 mil (or whatever it ends up being... probably at least 1.2) is impressive.
Oh please. This post is full of such bullshit.
ReplyDeleteWe all know if Techno Team 2000 faced Rock and Cena, the buyrate would have been astronomical...even beating Mayweather vs. De La Hoya.
Some people like Meltzer and Alvarez said that Rock was being neutered so they could foster an ill-fated 50-50 reaction for Cena at Mania. I'm not saying he was...but it's a distinct possibility.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly are you having problems understanding?
ReplyDeleteRock / Cena main event = 1.3 million buys (most in history).
If you need somebody to come along and pat you on the shoulder and say "it's ok, little buddy, I'm sure CM Punk had something to do with it".....then just ask nicely, and I'll consider doing that (minus the shoulder pat, tha'ts not my thing).
Considering you started one of your posts with something like "maybe I was the only one who came back to wrestling as a result of the Summer of Punk", that tells me right there that even you know, deep down, that Punk had little to do with the WM buyrate.
You keep referencing prior PPVs that came within the ballpark of WM 28, without mentioning the main events. Yeah, I'd say Cena/HBK, or HBK/Taker at WM could hang with with a Cena/Rock main event, in terms of buyrate.
Basically, you're pissed that Punk wasn't in the Main Event. That's what all this boils down to. Get over it. And the title of this thread (which, again, I didn't create) just pissed you off even more. Guess THE THRUTH (lol) hurts doesn't it?
So you get to use reasoning via what you wanted to see, but I don't?
ReplyDeleteGotcha.
Troll on brother!
I'm supposed to believe you know something about stock just because I mentioned stock?
ReplyDeletelol
But with the same story (Cena vs legend with a year long build) I don't think you get anywhere close to 1.3 mil. Hell, put Austin in (the only real comparable to Rock besides Hogan) and it doesn't do as well.
ReplyDeleteWe can't be having this argument. Rock=$$$. Just like how in 2007 we said Trump=$$$. Why were we all able to accept it then but can't now? I don't remember HBK marks getting annoyed at him not getting any credit for WM 23's big business. They just said "man, HBK and Cena had a great match".
Oh good, you're changing your argument again.
ReplyDeleteTroll on.
Lesnar-Bryan (or even Lesnar-Punk) could be next level Morishima-Danielson, so of course I don't expect them to actually do it that way.
ReplyDeleteWay to use facts flair4dagold! ;)
ReplyDelete(thank you)
Me too. I predicted 1.1 million in the pre-show thread based on that same logic. There was a good amount of buzz about this years show (from a mainstream perspective) but it still didn't feel like it quite matched 2007. I remember ET and Extra asking celebs on the red carpet (legit A-list ones like DiCaprio and Aniston) what they thought about Trump and him possibly losing his hair at Mania.
ReplyDeleteI was on team #fuckthemboth
ReplyDeleteHogan's still bigger.....he changed the landscape of Pro Wrestling twice.
ReplyDeleteRock clearly had the better acting career though.
Not only would I have paid to see Punk vs. Rock, I would have probably tried to go to Miami to see it.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Because Punk would have forced Dwayne to have some edge, would have challenged him and would have made for a more interesting feud.
Whoa 550,000 - really?
ReplyDeleteRock headlines a PPV with Cena: 322,000 buys.
ReplyDeleteRock headlines a PPV with Cena that Brock Lesnar is rumored to run in on: 1,300,000 buys.
Ipso facto, Brock is worth almost a million PPV buys!
The fact that Kane lasted 5 years....let alone 14 or whatever it's been...is a mild miracle. Plus people were saving their money to buy WM a month later lol. For a REAL main event !
ReplyDeleteAn Internet rumor that wasn't promoted at all.
ReplyDeleteIf only there were an "ignore" button that would hide all your posts. What a ludicrous argument.
ReplyDeleteWent and checked....on Nov. 20 it was Eagles/Giants on Sunday Night Football. Definitely could have hurt the buyrate some, since (a) i'ts a divisional game, (b) it's 2 east coast teams, and (c) both teams, at that point, were battling it out for the NFC East title/wildcard berth.
ReplyDeleteSo you're suggesting Brock is worth zero buys? That's pretty laughable.
ReplyDeleteOr is that not what you meant? It's hard to tell since you didn't have a fucking point.
Rock is that big of a star. The year-long build WORKED, despite what a small minority of Internet people (Chin, Shough and a few others) have to say about it.
ReplyDeleteI've always scored it as 1. Hogan 2. Austin 3. Rock
ReplyDeleteBut now I think Rock should be in the mix for #1 and I'd actually push him past Austin. I love Austin but he has no mainstream presence, and really only had it for like 18 months to 2 years when he was actually on top. Whereas even today if you asked people to name a pro wrestler more would say Hulk Hogan than Stone Cold.
I think in a few years Rock might pass Hogan. Rock distanced himself from wrestling for a while there, which helped grow his mainstream appeal. That hurt him in the debate before cause Hogan and Austin were ALWAYS associated with wrestling, so it felt unfair to put Rock ahead. But if Rock sticks around and stays linked to WWE (in the way Austin still is despite not doing anything at the moment) then he has a real shot at being the 'biggest' wrestling star ever.
By the way...considering over half the posters agreed with what I said in that column, who is this "everyone" that shit on it?
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, I don't expect you to answer back.
I said the same thing and people act like I'm trolling :-\
ReplyDeleteAgreed. All I'm reading is: "Waaah, Punk! Waaah, Ziggler! Waaah!"
ReplyDeleteGod, this place gets annoying. Think I'll just stick to Scott's posts and ignore most of the comments from now on.
Hogan and Austin are still above him.
ReplyDeleteEww...you're admitting you wrote that piece of shit? Do yourself a favor, don't advertise that too much. That article screaming "Look at Me!" even more than your constant need to defend your opinions as though they were fact.
ReplyDeleteSo you wrote a list of 20 things and half the people agreed with half of them? That DOES prove you have your finger on the pulse! lol
This is about the time you change your argument again, which is it this time? Survivor Series is or isn't a valid metric? MitB? Explain how half of 415,000 is 500,000 (that was my personal favorite). HBK/Cena is a draw because YOU wanted to see it, but Punk/Jericho can't be a draw because I wanted to see it?
You have some good points but so would anyone that consistently argued both sides of every argument in an effort to get people to pay attention.
That's just what simple-minded people say when they have no argument and people aren't saying what they want to hear.
ReplyDeleteTo Jason Recio: I agree. It helps that Lesnar is actually good, unlike Morishima.
ReplyDeletelmfao. Dont worry, others feel the same way..they just say it more politely, since apparently all he does is post here day after day after day (judging from that "post leader" chart).
ReplyDeleteRock is ahead of Austin. I always thought ht was anyway. WWF did its best ratings and buy numbers with Rock headlining, not Austin.
ReplyDeleteI'd rank it 1) Hogan 2) Rock 3) Austin, with Rock encroaching on Hogan. Hogan is helped by the nWo deal.
Right, totally obvious, because half of 415,000 is 500,000!
ReplyDeleteFWIW, I've disagreed with you plenty of times, but I'd never classify anything you've done as "trolling". Even your hate-on for Orton isn't different than my (or about 87 other peoples') hate-on for Miz. Hell, with my occasional tongue in cheek comments I'm more of a "troll" than you.
ReplyDeleteI'd noticed a few people taking shots at you for that stuff (Rock/Orton hate) so just wanted to once again point out some of us here have lost perspective of what real "trolling" is.
You're still fucking wrong about Orton, though.
No, he's saying there's a big difference between an internet rumor (one that occurred on April 1, oddly enough, which raised suspicion)........and an (interesting) feud that had been promoted fo ra while.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is the part of the thread where Sherdoggers go "/thread."
ReplyDeleteWell done, sir.
Why do you keep running around editing these posts? lol
ReplyDeleteI like that your confident enough in your argument that you have to run around and change it AFTER people have responded.
Good work, you're totally doing a great job of not looking like a desperate troll, hahaha.
"Half of 415,000 is 500,000!"
That came off douchier than I intended. I enjoy your posts, and Flair and nwa88 and plenty of people who I frequently disagree with. But the blatant, irrational stuff from others is just overwhelming.
ReplyDeleteBecause half of 415,000 is 500,000!
ReplyDeleteTroll on brother. You're so edgy!
Hey look, ANOTHER post that you ran around and edited after the response.
ReplyDeleteGood stuff!
For somebody talking about "changing arguments"......you tried to say "everyone shit on that post" and now you acknowledge "half the people" lol.
ReplyDeleteAnd if I argued both sides of hte fence, I'd be saying CM Punk is clearly a draw. I didn't go there, and with good reason. Also, for someone throwing around the troll label alot, I noticed on page 2 a guy flat out said he wished he could auto-iggy your posts lol. Good stuff, almost as good as your "stock" knowledge. It was probably good that you didn't wanna get into that discussion with me, it wouldn't have ended particularly well :)
Rock vs Austin is interesting for the reasons you state (company was at its peak with Rock on top). Cause you could definitely say that Austin was the rising tide that lifted all boats (including Rock) in 98. But if you looked at the numbers we usually measure the biggest "draws" by, it should be Rock as #1.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the perfect analogy, but it reminds me of Roger Federer's case as the greatest tennis player of all time. If you simply looked at the accomplishments, it should be Federer (Rock). But how can Federer be the greatest when he has a rival, Rafael Nadal, that had his number when both were in their prime. So Nadal (Austin) should be the greatest, right? No, cause he doesn't match up well against the greats from the past (Hogan). But Federer (Rock) does. But if he couldn't beat Nadal how can he be the greatest?
I'm pretty sure Austin technically sold more PPVs (if you give him the credit for being in the main event) than Rock. I know he certainly sold more merchandise. Vince has even said "Rock is no Austin."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the highest selling wrestling PPV ever? Because I read somewhere that Starrcade 1997 did 1.9 buys, which is six points higher than WM28. Is that true? Because I would think WCW couldn't lie about their numbers (much like WWE can't now.)
ReplyDelete150 comments?
ReplyDeleteTime to change the line at the top of the page.
"All Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar AND The Rock, all the time! YES! YES! IF YA SMELL...!"
Half the people agreed with half your points, that's not exactly a stellar rate of success. It's actually 25%.
ReplyDeleteI know you have a problem with math, that's why you think half of 415,000 is 500,000.
lol
It was the most buys in wrestling history at the time. However, I don't think a 1.9 buyrate in 1997 meant 1.9 million buys. Flair4dagold or NWA88 may be able to clear that up.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested in seeing the hard numbers. I'm far too lazy to look this stuff up, lol.
ReplyDelete"Half" isn't "everyone", which is what you originally said.
ReplyDeleteFor somebody who keeps repeating the same things over and over, you might wanna make sure your own ducks are in a row.
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH WHY ISN'T CM PUNK GETTING CREDIT FOR THE WM BUYRATE" lmao.
Re-read this original thread (which I didn't write), pretty much tells you what you need to know.
It's actually 25%, half of half. But again, you aren't very good at math. Why don't you address what you said contrary guy? About half of Rocky's drawing power being at least 500,000? Or did you conveniently go back and edit that too?
ReplyDeleteThe rest is you arguing a point I never said. I said, if anything, Brock is more responsible than Punk.
See, I keep repeating your point and asking you to defend them, you keep making up statements and attributing them to me.
This is what trolls do. You're a troll. A troll SO OBVIOUS that three different people were able to call you out on writing the original troll article that caused you to start posting here in the first place.
So utterly obvious, it's downright adorable.
Half of 415,00 is 500,000! Address your dumb statements, stop trying to avoid them with further trolling.
=)
WrestleMania XXVIII is the most-purchased wrestling pay-per-view of all time if 1.3 million people paid to see it. There's a difference between viewership and buyrates, the 1.9 buyrate Starrcade '97 did is a percentage of how many homes with the ability to order the show actually did (1.9%)
ReplyDeleteStarrcade '97 (WCW's highest PPV buyrate ever) did the same number as WrestleMania V, which I remember from a top 10 list Power Slam published a few years ago, and they were tied for 10th in the all-time numbers, and both have dropped in the years since that list was published.
Burates and TV ratings aren't the same today as they were then, as they are based on the percentage that could access the show. Basically a 1.0 buyrate relates to 0.01% of the people who had access to the show purchased it. 1.9 means that 0.019% of people that could buy the show at that time did so.
ReplyDeleteWith about 60 million homes in the USA having access to PPV, the buyrate for this show would be pretty huge.
Did he say that when the Rock and WWE were on the outs?
ReplyDeleteThe American Ratings strikes again!
ReplyDeleteSome people get the right degrees to let them work from home, some people get the degrees to let them write hero worship letters to internet writers hoping they agree with their opinion.
ReplyDeleteYou're the latter. Congrats! =)
Wow..and he accused me of pulling numbers out of MY ass??
ReplyDeletehahahaha.
Shit. I'm all out of popcorn.
ReplyDeleteFrom what i've read over the years, before '04, WM was free in many international markets so actual buys were driven by domestic ppv purchases only. I read that WM17 had 1m buys just in North America. nwa88 has a better handle on this stuff on this board than anyone (and probably Scott as well), i'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it.
ReplyDelete"Not good at math"....says the guy who claimed WM 28 did 30,000 more buys than WM 23....when in fact they did 110,000 more.
ReplyDeleteGo back to page 2, unless you wanna pretend you weren't corrected on that.
Might wanna brush up on your own math skills before you run around here making a fool of yourself lol.
Working from home doesn't = prestigious job. I know telecommuters who get 35,000 or less a year.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, I don't really care how much money you make,
I think up until WMXX the UK got them free, so that sounds about right. Here's the Mania buys I managed to find:
ReplyDeleteWrestleMania 1 - 398,000 (Closed Circuit Television)WrestleMania 2 - 319,000 (Closed Circuit Television)WrestleMania III - 450,000 (Closed Circuit Television) and another 400,000 on PPVWrestleMania IV - 175,000 (Closed Circuit Television)WrestleMania V - 767,000WrestleMania VI - 550,000WrestleMania VII - 400,000WrestleMania VIII - 360,000WrestleMania IX - 430,000WrestleMania X - 420,000WrestleMania XI - 340,000WrestleMania XII - 290,000WrestleMania 13 - 237,000 (Lowest Buyrate Record)WrestleMania XIV - 730,000WrestleMania XV - 800,000WrestleMania 2000 - 824,000WrestleMania X-Seven - 1,040,000WrestleMania X8 - 880,000WrestleMania XIX - 560,000WrestleMania XX - 1,007,000WrestleMania 21 - 1,085,000WrestleMania 22 - 975,000WrestleMania 23 - 1,250,000 (Highest Buyrate Record)WrestleMania XXIV - 1,041,000WrestleMania XXV - 960,000WrestleMania XXVI - 885,000WrestleMania XXVII - 1,042,000
And 30,000 = 110,000 lol.
ReplyDeleteAccording to http://www.thewrestlingcafe.com/wrestlemania-buyrates-history.php the difference is only 30,000.
ReplyDeleteI decided to go with flair4dagold's numbers out of deference. Personally I still think it's only made 30,000 difference.
Now. Go on, explain why you think half of 415,000 is 500,000.
I like that you can't address it. Keep deflecting. Go on.
Yeah, that WM17 number is impressive dude.
ReplyDeleteI've also read that Starrcade 97 came in around WM5 number as far as buys and that makes sense considering the high buyrate. Maybe Starrcade 97 did around 700k or so.
It was, look at that promo that the Rock cut on Youtube. Rock wasn't able to say any of that on television.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thewrestlingcafe.com/wrestlemania-buyrates-history.php says the difference is 30,000. I used that website before Flair posted his numbers. I've since adjusted to using Flair's numbers, not that I'm necessarily sure that they are any better.
ReplyDeletePoor fella, look at you try to deflect! lol
Look at you deflect from your statement! LOL
ReplyDeleteThe top google result for "Wrestlemania Buyrates" suggest the difference is only 30,000.
I have evidence for my point. What's yours?
I'm not explaining it because I never said half of 415,000 is 500,000. That's just something you're repeating over and over because you feel silly. I'd feel more silly about having the highest post count here among anyone
ReplyDeleteAnd here is the top 15 highest buyrates in history according to Observer in 2005. Numbers are slightly different to the ones below.
ReplyDelete1. WWE WrestleMania 17 - 950,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin
2. WWE WrestleMania 18 - 840,000 buys - The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan
3. WWE WrestleMania 20 - 825,000 buys - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels
4. WWE WrestleMania 16 - 824,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley
5. WWE WrestleMania 15 - 800,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin
6. WWE InVasion - 770,000 buys - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Kane, & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T, Rhyno, Diamond Dallas Page, Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley
7. WWE WrestleMania 14 - 730,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels
8. WWE SummerSlam (08/30/98) - 700,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker
9. WWE Royal Rumble (01/20/02) - 665,000 buys - Chris Jericho vs. The Rock
10. WCW Starrcade (12/28/97) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Sting
10. WWE WrestleMania 5 (04/02/89) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage
10. WWE Royal Rumble (01/24/99) - 650,000 buys - The Rock vs. Mankind
13. WWE Backlash (04/30/00) - 625,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H
14. WWE Unforgiven (09/24/00) - 605,000 buys - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane
15. WCW Bash at the Beach (07/12/98) - 600,000 buys - Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone15. WWE SummerSlam (08/22/99) - 600,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind
So it would seem that this Mania or the Trump one is the biggest of all time.
Orton is more than capable in the ring, but the man is human valium. The man basically killed Smackdown by taking the title from Christian, the proof is in the ratings. Orton is not the draw people think he is.
ReplyDeleteLord knows the first person I'd believe is someone named Pavitar Sidhu lol.
ReplyDeleteStill waiting to see where I claimed thathalf of 415,000 is 500,000.
Hahaha....and now you're going to pretend you never suggested that Rocky was worth a million buys? Or even 500,000?
ReplyDeleteLOL
You've officially bagged off defending every one of your statements in this thread. I am heartily impressed.
This was fun, watching you desperately thrash around and troll. Time for the Rangers game and then the live thread!
I was explaining why I'm here alot, Nothing more. YOU interpret that as me being better than you, I don't. You're showing. =)
ReplyDeleteYour very first post you suggested that Rocky was worth at least half a million. We know from that actual numbers he was worth 415,000 at best, and that's if we include the entire increase for 27 to his "possibility of running in".
You know, that same "possibility of running in" that you refuse to credit Brock for because it wasn't why YOU bought the show.
I'll just say this, EVERYONE was talking about the Rock wrestling Cena. They didn't know who he was wrestling, they just knew he was wrestling a match. Some of my best friends who are MMA fans and absolutely hate wrestling knew that the Rock was back.
ReplyDeleteSorry to say, as much as I'm a Punk and Jericho fan, this is all Rock.
Ummm, how exactly did you "disprove" that 500,000 buyers didn't tune in to see The Rock ?
ReplyDeleteYou didn't lol.
I only started posting recently, but I was a long time lurker. I feel like I know the people who know their stuff--love matic grandpa, flair4dagold, nwa88, ryan murphy, Jabber2, Night81, Screamworks, etc (sorry if left some of you out; I'm just going off the top of my head)--and I think there's plenty of intelligent discussions on the board.
ReplyDeleteBUT WTF is going on with ChinWins today?
Anyway, count me in as someone who gives Cena and Rock most of the credit for this one. I thought they played it a little safe during the build-up to the match, afraid to add a plot turn or twist. But still, they brought the people. Hopefully, in the future, we can limit Mania's part-timer main events to 1 instead of 3 in the years to come, though, because it only takes one crossover star to get people's attention (and the rest of the boys can take it from there).
BTW, your buys are inflated a bit. For example, WM20 was just under 900k, not 1m+. I got most of the numbers from the WWE earnings statements.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe WM XI did as well as it did. Some big rebounds between 13-14 and especially 19-20. 560,000 - wow.
ReplyDeleteYeah the WO ones I posted afterwards seem to be more accurate. Either way the top 3 best selling PPV's of all time are WM 28, WM 23 and (once you consider its American only buys) WM 17
ReplyDeleteThat's what you're crying about??? that 415,000 "Rocky buys" isn't equal to half a million (aka 500,000) Rocky buys that I suggested ?
ReplyDeleteHave you really been acting that butthurt over 85,000 buys??
Besides, unless you polled ever PPV buyer, you have no idea how many of them bought the PPV, and for what reason (to be fair, I don't either). Also, you don't even know if the same exact fans were watching 2 years ago.
Your argument would have some merit if we assumed "all other things equal"
Rock = movie star, established draw.
Punk = had a decent little run last summer, seems to care about the business, but couldn't even make himself particularly famous by offering to curb-stomp notoriously disliked Chris Brown. Notice how that just faded away after his little Youtube clip rant towards CB lol.
I can only go by what I know. Rock headlines WM this year, it breaks a record. If CM Punk headlines WM next year, or even 2, 3 or 4 years from now and the buyrate is similar, then your argument will be validated. Till then, Punk's just a baggy-eyed little greaseball who should be grateful that he got to collect such an epic payday just for putting on the 3rd best match of the night lol.
Gee thanks..now I'll have certain delusional CM Punk fans who wish they could spew their venom towards the "regs" here (those that are admitting what you are admitting) taking out their little aggressions and projecting their anger towards me lol.
ReplyDeleteMy best guess is that he's obsessed with keeping the top spot on the top commenters board.
ReplyDeleteHey! You finally addressed one of your own points! Well that only took 3 hours, didn't it?
ReplyDeleteAnd you addressed it by...saying you were still right because you weren't as wrong as you could have been.
Sigh. Well, that was almost a real moment from Mr. Contrary.
He'll be commenting calling you a troll within the hour
ReplyDeleteGood question...
ReplyDeleteGenerally those type of people try to pile on "newbs" who differ in opinion from them. They feel alot safer attacking a newb, who's opinion may be essentially the same (albeit worded a bit more direct) as some of the experienced posters....but they won't dare go after the experienced poster. And if they do, they follow everything up with a smiley emot
Pound for pound best post of the day.
ReplyDeleteYep.
ReplyDeleteI most certainly am not discounting Rock's importance to the great business this WrestleMania did. The point I made earlier, though, was that it's awfully nice that he gets all the credit and none of the blame. I think Rock is an incredible draw, under the right circumstances. He didn't make much of a difference with the ratings, and he didn't increase Survivor Series as much as people had hoped. He did awesome business for WrestleMania....which is a franchise and sell in and of itself. Again, not taking away from Rock....but let's also not act like he walks into a room and suddenly it turns to gold.
ReplyDeleteAww thanks lol.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm pretty much on board with you. Rock/Cena sold the show, but the goodwill that was laid over the last year by Punk and others helped it seem like a big deal and probably helped sway a good number of those buys from a "maybe" to a "yes". Still the same show minus that match wouldn't sell as well, that's just unfortunate fact but fact nonetheless. The idea now is to make the guys who didn't sell the show catch on with the fans who jumped on for Rock/Cena, and then they can do big business without the big show savers.
Either way, they need to not act like Punk isn't in the league that Brock, Rock, and whoever else are, because that's just fucking ignorant and short sighted. Regardless of anything, Punk will be there next year when Rock is making bad movies and Brock is attempting to become the next heavyweight boxing champion.
Punk is excellent at what he does and I believe he's totally right there with anyone as far as an interesting character, in the ring (duh!) and the ability to cut awesome promos. If Austin comes back for one final match and it's against Punk at WM next year, it won't do what this one did (imho), but it could do really really well and Punk can finally be elevated completely.
ReplyDeleteThe funny part about that....he has several troll characteristics himself lol
ReplyDeleteIn that case, spread the love to Jericho, he was on Dancing with the Stars as well!
ReplyDeleteI always get sad looking at the WM19 numbers - sure, the previous year had been relatively poor in terms of storylines, but the card was STACKED, and absolutely delivered.
ReplyDeleteHe's really not in their league, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteHulk Hogan was popular because he looked larger than life and had a unique charisma about him. That's why the guy who slammed Andre, was defender of the USA,and all that...worked so well. Because you could suspend your sense of disbelief and genuinely picture this guy as a superhero.
Ric Flair....he lived his gimmick, and backed up his trash talk in the ring. The flashy robes helped out too, I'm sure. Again, he was believable.....you could realistically picture him being a womanizer, leer jet flyin, limosine ridin son of a gun. Because, well, he was.
Brock Lesnar......booked like a killing machine when he first got into WWE....and when he got to UFC...showed that he was , in fact, a legit bad-ass.
John Cena....has the looks and body that women admire....the work ethic that grown men should (in theory) appreciate...and genuinely is believable in his role as a guy who would fight you until the absolute bitter end.
Anyway, long story short ......CM Punk seems like a loud mouth who screams about how he's the "best in the world"....but it just doesn't seem believable. When Chris Benoit said he was "the best damn technical wrestler in the world", it seemed believable. Quite frankly, CM Punk just sorta looks like a guy who'd get knocked flat on his ass in a night club if he somehow ended up in a fight.
Again, this is just MY opinion, but I'm willing to bet many non-fans, or casual fans who haven't watched in years, would feel the same.
I do think that calling Rock the biggest draw should come with a caveat, though - he's no longer just a "wrestler", he's a bona-fide Hollywood star. I mean, Rock was unquestionably a draw during his "prime" wrestling days, but it's only now that he's gone out and made his name elsewhere that he set the record. No other WM he headlined drew these numbers.
ReplyDeleteI realize that it sounds like I'm nit-picking, but think of it this way: should we call Donald Trump the second-biggest draw in wrestling history?
Not trying to dump on Rock, he's absolutely one of the biggest stars in WWE history, but doing a large number for one show isn't the same as doing large numbers for years on end. To me, Rock is still behind Hogan and Austin - Hogan is SYNONYMOUS with pro-wrestling, and Austin was the sole focus of the company during it's highest period. Also keep in mind that there are other ways to draw money as a wrestler, it's not just about TV ratings and PPV buy-rates, merchandise is another great source of revenue: Hogan and Austin both sold way more merchandise than Rock, and for a longer amount of time, not to mention that Cena, Taker, the "nWo", and "dX" probably all out-sell/-sold him, as well.
I can understand that Rock had more cross-over appeal than Austin, and had more cross-over appeal without looking like a hokey cartoon than Hogan, but the other guys brought in more total money over the years.
You are nitpicking, but that's ok, that's what we do here, right? Cena is not in the league of 1. Hogan 2. Austin 3. Rock. See, I agree with you there.
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm pretty sure that my hate for Orton (and Del Rio) is pretty similar to your contempt for Miz.
ReplyDelete