Jericho posted a link to the classic Raw tag match with him/Benoit vs. HHH/Austin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SomfgOE0E&feature=youtube_gdata_player. As I was watching, I just couldn't believe how fast paced it was compared to any style match these days. Then I realized that because Vince hates tag teams, they haven't really put on a proper tag match in so long that they forgot why the formula has worked (and always will). That the matches can be worked at a much higher pace where you can either hide the shortcomings of out of shape guys and still have fun matches that plays to each wrestler's strengths, or stick 4 talented guys in there and just light the building on fire like these guys did back in the day.
Evidence item # 4,278,321 as to how clueless Vince is in regards to product quality these days.
Well, there was the period a few years ago with Jericho/Show v. Batista/Rey that was really great precisely because they worked the formula like you're talking about. It's becoming more of a problem of a self-fulfilling prophecy these days where Vince has no confidence in the tag teams, so they're emphasized less and given shorter matches, so people care about them less, so Vince has less confidence in them, and on and on.
Daniel Bryan and Cody Rhodes as Rated RKO version 2K12. BOOK IT!
ReplyDeleteThey should just get rid of the tag team titles, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteForget tag team wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI miss matches of any kind with that much HEAT.
Sometimes when I play EWR, I'll book one show to be just tag teams. I usually go out and sign the American Wolves, Motorcity Machineguns, the Briscoes, the Kings of Wrestling, and LAX, and with those five teams having great matches with each other, it raises the level of the show. I'll also throw in Miz and Morrison, Legacy, Carlito and Primo, and London and Kendrick.
ReplyDeleteI think Shawn Michaels said in his book that he and Marty felt that with tag team wrestling, the action should never stop because if you need to rest, you can rest on the apron.
So am I the only one who's ever noticed that Benoit wasn't the legal man when he went for the pin near the end?
ReplyDeleteIf they're not going to push Ziggler as a singles star, they should push the living daylights out of Ziggler and Swagger as a Hollywood Blondes-type team.
ReplyDeleteA big part of why so many of the legends learned ring psychology was because they were in tag teams early on in their careers. It would be a great way to get some hot prospects some well-needed experience.
And what we need is TRUE tag teams, with the team name and double-team finishers. You can't tell me that you can't merchandise a team, either. Especially after seeing kids wearing LOD shoulder pads and Hardy merchandise in the stands.
We can't tell you that, no. But the point is that the person you need to tell is Vincent K. McMahon.
ReplyDeleteWhat blew my mind with this match was this though. Who.Who today could fill those four roles? At best it's....wait.
Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cena and...actually...Brock. Ok. Never mind. I'd pay money to see a tag team of Punk and Cena vs. DB and Brock.
So many great wrestlers evolved from tag team wrestling like Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, Edge and many more to become legit main-eventers. Look at Booby Roode and James Storm in TNA as both were in separate tag teams, had a not so eventful singles career before teaming together leading to the start of promising singles careers in the main event.
ReplyDeleteI do miss proper tag team wrestling as some of my favourite matches are quality tag team matches, Benoit/Malenko v Raven/Saturn, World's Greatest Tag Team v Mysterio/Kidman, Furnas/Kroffat v Kobashi/Kikuchi, Angle/Benoit v Edge/Mysterio, Briscoes v Sydal/Castagnoli, AMW v Roode/Young, Credible/Storm v Dreamer/Douglas, Edge/Christian v X-Pac/Road Dogg and more. The last three are not as critically acclaimed as the others but are definitely personal favourites of mine back from my mark days but still enjoy them because of the heat and the execution behind them. Hell I even really marked out for Kingston/R-Truth v Ziggler/Swagger from Over The Limit recently thanks to the lack of decent tag team wrestling in the WWE for the last few years. It's like the new Cruiserweight or Hardcore division where most of the guys involved get stuck with the label of only being good enough for that division apart from the odd guy whose already been labelled for better things and merely treading water till that time for the most part.
First thing Jericho does after getting suspended for 30 days is post a Benoit video? Is he trying to get fired?
ReplyDeleteWell with all the action and excitement, I'd see it as being an easy thing to miss.
ReplyDeleteI did find it strange that he posted the link, but more for personal reasons. After his last book (admittedly written a few years ago), he left the impression that he never wanted to see a match with him and Benoit again. Of course, this isn't Jericho watching the match, but I still find it odd for him to reference it. If he's finding ways to move on, good for him.
ReplyDeleteIf it's true they're signing Shelley I hope to God this means we'll end up with a Rollins/Shelley team. They both have the emo look down, or just pretend they're really into dubstep since a lot of those kids seem to be gravitating towards that now. They can both flat out work. It gives you a next gen Hardyz/RnR Express vibe. Push Swagger and Dolph as the heel champs, debut that Ascension team from NXT/FCW/whatever, and hook Sin Cara and Rey up. You have a revitalized tag team division.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with that second point. I don't see much of a point in rest holds unless it's playing into a specific injury like working over the back or the leg. Chinlocks of any kind are just plain lazy in a tag team match.
ReplyDeleteI still can't believe they didn't put Rey and Sin Cara together so far. the latter has not been fully "clicking" with the audience anyway, so it can't damage him. but if it works out he gets a lot more over in the process.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. because restholds can also be very useful in building a heat sequence. instead of doing a lot of flashy maneuvers have the heel team take their turns with a chinlock (to use your example) and tease the babyface getting out of it and almost making the tag two or three times. if the face DOES manage to get his partner in, the place will very like erupt.
ReplyDeleteResolved: only heels should use restholds in tag matches, to build the sympathy heat for the Ricky Morton. For any other reason, just tag out & rest on the apron.
ReplyDeleteAll Shelley has to do is skip a few haircuts and he'd be a dead ringer for Skrillex.
ReplyDeleteOn top of great wrestlers coming out of tag teams, how about the tag teams that probably saved people's careers. There's Miz/Morrison, Road Dogg/Billy Gunn. Hell, even Cody/Ted probably benefited from being paired together at the beginning of their careers instead of pursuing immediate singles careers. There's definitely a value in tag teams.
ReplyDelete".....there was the period a few years ago with Jericho/Show v. Batista/Rey that was really great"
ReplyDeleteehhh, Jeri-Show had a good run, but it did not remind me of "the old days", so to speak. Just another homogenized match at Breaking Point 2009. Wow. It was like **1/2 if that. And that match was just a back drop for Dave'd turn. Oh well, nice try Scott.
Too bad they never did jack shit with London & Kendrick, MNM, Hardys, WGTT, Cade/Murdoch - they had a pretty good tag divison aroun 06-08. The triple threat ladder match at Armaggedon is just about the only tag match to write home about in the last ten years. Sad emoticon.
Probably would have become a story line point if Benoit hadn't broken his neck at KOTR. Or it was a way for HHH to save face, ie: not really do the J-O-B
ReplyDeleteYeah, really, it's crazy seeing how into the characters/match the fans are. You never see anything like that these days.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, someone else posted the link and he RT'd it with the comment "You'll never see this match again"
ReplyDeleteMost of my favorite tag matches (outside of insane spotfests like TLC etc) involve either Benoit or Austin. Both of those guys really understood how to ramp up a matches energy at just the right time.
ReplyDeleteI think what amazes me so much about Two man power trip vs Canadian Violence Connection is the little things. HHH puts Jericho (I think it was Jericho) in an abdominal stretch, Stone Cold grabs HHH's arm, adding further torque on the face. He lets go as the ref is about to notice, then does it again. That way, when the ref finally DOES notice and breaks it up, it's a huge deal.
I think it's a shame that Rocker-esque tag teams are all but extinct. THe last team that pulled off that tag formula was Kendrick/London, and man do I miss them. It's a shame, it's a great way to introduce new workers and build your midcard. Hopefully Titus/Young can make Vince care about the division again because they do look more like wrestlers that get him excited (read into that loaded word as much as you want to).
The Triple H / Austin vs. Jericho / Benoit tag match is one of my all time favorites.
ReplyDeleteAnd really, at this point maybe the best thing for Rey, physically, would be a year or so holding onto the tag ropes.
ReplyDeleteif Kendrick and London would have been around at timeframe (a few years earlier) they could have been a huge deal.
ReplyDeletebtw: "Air Boom" could have been great as well but the WWE instantly made them less interesting by giving them the titles so early. this is something that bothers me with other belts as well but it's more apparent in the tag team division than anywhere else: who does the company expect the viewers to get behind the "chase" for that championship if it is only one or two weeks long?
ReplyDeletethis specifically bothers me with those two because it's not like the WWE has to "strike the iron while it's hot" because they know for almost 100% sure that Bourne and Kingston will not be more than midcarders for their next months in the company. so why the hurry?
can the heels just not stomp the faces in their corner or use stuff like the surfboard submission thing to build heat/intensity? id really side with the point that chinlocks are totally unecessary in tag matches
ReplyDeleteExactly the reason they should build the tag division around Ziggler and Swagger. You can build up a cache of strong face teams around them to get the fans actively involved in the concept of tag wrestling again.
ReplyDelete