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Hey Scott,
Long time fan, yada yada. I have a super quick question for you. I'm the global moderator of a pro wrestling forum. In a discussion, someone said that the Liontamer move (Walls of Jericho with a knee to the back of the opponent's head) will be on WWE '13. But a friend of mine said, "Liontamer and Walls of Jericho are the same moves. It was called Liontamer when Jericho was in WCW, but when he went to WWE, the move was named Walls of Jericho. In WWE, even when he put his knee to the back of his opponent's head, commentators called it WoJ (see NXT's debut episode). Liontamer name was not said in WWE, never."
But i was thinking that Walls of Jericho (a normal Boston crab) and Liontamer (Boston crab with a knee to the back of opponent's head) are different moves. So i made a quick search, but found out that even when Jericho applied the move with the knee to the head, commentators were calling it Walls of Jericho. So I agreed the way he told.
But today, WWE.com had an article. Here's a picture of it:
http://i.minus.com/jmWB3g9Z4EMGa.png
It confirms my theory and says that Liontamer and WoJ are different moves.
So, my question is, what do you (and the Smark community) think about it?
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The Walls is the lazy version of the Liontamer.
Jericho busts out the old Liontamer on some opponents who can handle having their backs wrenched like that, but I don't think the way he applied the move in WCW was going to fly in WWF, so he modified it.
ReplyDeleteThink he mentioned this in his second book.
It would be impossible to stick certain people in the Liontamer. Well, not impossible, but very awkward and painful.
ReplyDeleteFor me there's three versions of this move that Jericho does
ReplyDeleteLiontamer - Boston crab with knee to back of the head
Walls of Jericho - standing Boston Crab. This was how Jericho performed the move for his first couple of years in the WWE. It was always dubious as to how this would hurt but it looked pretty cool, if nowhere near as cool as the Liontamer
Boston Crab - the version where he sits down and looks like he's taking a dump on their back. Sadly this is the version he does most often.
Better Question: When was the last time Chris Jericho beat *ANYONE* with *ANY* version of said move?
ReplyDeletewcw.
ReplyDeleteyea my guess is the luchadores and other cruiserweights he wrestled in wcw were mroe flexible than the much bigger opponents he faced in wwe....
ReplyDeleteBut, but he got this jobber in purple to tap to it in WWE!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCJXhoBdZU
Also D Bryan tapped to the Liontamer on NXT.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB2tKs0kXnI&feature=related
He says in his second book that he has to do it as a regular Boston Crab to most of his WWE opponents because they're bigger and don't bend that way. I think I've seen him break out the WCW version on Rey Mysterio or Kofi Kingston, smaller guys who can bend that way. It just depends on who he's facing....
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone do a good Sharpshooter or Boston Crab anymore? Anyone who does it now makes it obvious they're just holding their opponents legs without a lot of pressure on the back.
I'm fairly certain he beat Kofi Kingston with the move during one of their dozens of encounters this past year.
ReplyDeleteYou know what was pretty cool? Lance Storm's half-crab. Especially how he used to grab a leg and pull a guy over with it (not sure how else to describe it).
ReplyDeleteHas nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with his opponents' lack of flexibility. He demonstrated this to Kenny King on Tough Enough back in the day when asked the same question.
ReplyDeleteHuh, despite Jericho being probably my favorite wrestler, and noticing how he went from doing the Liontamer to just the Walls, I never really bothered to find out why. This has proved to be enlightening!
ReplyDeleteOh man, I remember Eric Escobar. The one guy that even Vickie couldn't get heat for.
ReplyDeleteI do an awesome Sharpshooter & Texas Cloverleaf
ReplyDeleteYeah, I rather liked the standing Boston Crab.
ReplyDeleteI always saw it as Jericho changing the move when he went to the WWF on purpose, because as great as the Liontamer looked on smaller wrestlers such as he was facing in WCW, it just didn't work with the bigger guys, so thats why he changed it up.
ReplyDeleteOff-topic but here's the latest Virgilbag for anyone else that wants to read it: http://deadspin.com/virgilbag/
ReplyDeleteDidn't he beat Paul London with it once while Garrison Cade was acting as his wingman or whatever?
ReplyDeleteJR wasn't happy with it. Said the story was BS.
ReplyDeleteThe Walls looks so weak compared to the Liontamer. Recently Jericho's been approximating the Liontamer, where he really wrenches back on his opponent.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone do a good Sharpshooter
ReplyDeleteAnyone with the initials Duane Johnson certainly doesn't!
S/O to Chin and Joe who got it.
ReplyDeleteroll through
ReplyDeleteTHat JR story is HILARIOUS.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone do a good STF anymore?
ReplyDeleteThe Liontamer is also much tougher to get out of due to the lack of flexibility, making it a difficult move to work into the WWE's "finisher-counter-finisher" ending sequences.
ReplyDeleteThe Savio Vega story got a chortle from me.
ReplyDeleteEven when I knew that he wasn't going to do an OG Liontamer to his opponents, I hated that Jericho did it so half assed. He basically got all the pop from sweeping up the legs and doing the roll over, and if they tapped at all it was academic and it didn't even look like it hurt in the slightest. I wish he'd have figured out the Codebreaker when he first came to WWF, that would have gone a long way toward getting him more over.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the lack of flexibility is the same reason Bryan decided to ditch Cattle Mutilation when he came to WWE, plus the fact that it obscures both guys' faces and that's not good for TV. And it's a pretty stupid move.
The one about the kid getting rescued by Deebo is pretty funny.
ReplyDeleteMy finisher in an Efed. The character's name was Preppie Kamikaze and the rollthrough half boston I deemed: "The 4.0". Also employed Tommy Rogers' Tomikaze (Christian's impaler) and called it The Kamikaze
ReplyDeleteTrue, the Yes! Lock looks a lot more devastating.
ReplyDeleteTo me, a lot of the WWE submissions look weak to anyone who has just a passing knowledge in MMA submissions. The Anaconda Vice and the STFU in particular don't look like they do anything.
I remember Jericho saying that he switched to the Walls(traditional Boston crab) because in WWF he was working with bigger guys so he switched to the crab. Whereas in WCW he mainly worked cruiserweights.
ReplyDeleteIm shocked and apalled that there was no one within 20 feet of drunken, ornery Wayne Ferris signing autos. SHOCKED!
ReplyDeleteLove the Rock story. He seems like a really nice guy who relishes the chance to be a jerk every once in a while. My brother went to a WWF show(without me-what a prick) it was 98 because Rock was a heel and he was facing HHH, and as Rock is coming down the aisle my brother is yelling a Rock. He gets Rock's attention and gives him the finger. So Rock pauses stars DIRECT-ALY at my brother and says "fuck you" bam People's Eyebrow.
ReplyDeleteI've been jealous of my brother ever since.
The WWE version of the Anaconda Vise is actually a little better than the original version, which was basically just an arm triangle and didn't look like it hurt in the slightest.
ReplyDeleteHe also beat the Great Khali with it on an episode of Raw in September 2010.
ReplyDeleteI love the Lion Tamer and I mark whenever he busts it out. The last time I remember him giving someone a proper lion tamer was when he wrestled Danielson on NXT.
ReplyDeleteI always just assumed that the "Liontamer" was just more uncomfortable, and the "Walls" was a total BS pro wrestling move. Why be uncomfortable when you can play fight comfortably to the same effect ?
ReplyDeleteAn arm triangle isn't supposed to hurt it's just supposed to make you pass out shortly which doesn't work as a main event match finisher (even though in my personal opinion it should since it would allow the man losing to the move lose without shame). When Punk was in WWECW and doing the uranage into the vice as his finisher it was a (mostly) properly applied choke.
ReplyDeleteThe version he does now doesn't look like it hurts either and isn't much of anything. It bothers me more than it should.
Well the new version he's doing a top wrist lock and pulling most of your body weight up off the ground so all the weight of the opponent's upper body is being applied to bend the wrist backward. It's not as bad as it could be, I guess.
ReplyDelete