Hey Scott--
Love your thoughts, love your rants. Hope you can weigh in on something here.
It is my thinking (and many other members of the IWC) that a wrestler needs three things to become a legend/huge success. Those three are: 1) Charisma/Look 2) In-ring skills 3) Mic work. The best of all time have all three of these (Flair, HBK, Angle, Savage, Austin...), many other have become legends with only two of them, but my question is this---Can you name the wrestler that has "gotten the farthest" in terms of overall respect by fans, status among the boys, reputation and everything else who only possessed ONE of the three factors.
Here are mine:
(again trying to find the biggest disparity b/w their "status" and their talents)
1) Legendary wrestlers with tons of charisma and a great/memorable look but no in-ring skills or mic work. My pick is Andre the Giant. The man is one of the most recognizable and well known wrestlers of all time, and he did it all with just who he is. Even when he was younger, he never was anything close to a good wrestler and his mic skills are even worse. My back-up pick is Abdullah the Butcher.
2) Legendary wrestlers who had amazing in-ring work, but hardly any charisma or mic skills. My pick here is Bob Backlund. Incredibly bland (except when wrestling) and snooze-inspiring promo work. My back-up here is AJ Styles (sorry TNA fans).
3) Legendary wrestlers who had great promo work, but sucked in the ring and didn't have much in the way of charisma/look. This one is the toughest obviously, since anyone who has great mic work usually can be said to have a decent amount of charisma. I can't find the perfect example, but Larry Zbyszko is the closest I can come up with.
Curious to get your thoughts on all three.
Also, the wrestler who made it the farthest w/o any of those three factors is Pedro Morales. He sucked.
Pedro was awesome for his time, you're nuts.
I don't think you can really divide "promo skills" from "charisma" so the whole argument kind of falls apart for me. Like I'd say a Michael Hayes was all promo, but obviously he had a natural charisma that made it easy to hate him as well. And Andre absolutely had in-ring skills! You're obviously not watching the right matches if you think he didn't.
Yeah, Pedro Morales was awesome back in the day. I am not a fan of the old school stuff but Morales was an excellent wrestler who had the crowd on their feet with his matches. The dude had the emotion of the crowd and the talent to deliver in the ring. I actually enjoy his matches from back in the day.
ReplyDeleteAndre was 7 feet tall. That's all he needed for success.
The AJ Styles is a weird mention. Nobody ever thinks of Styles as a great worker; a great high flyer but never a great worker. Plus I've seen AJ cut some very good promos in TNA. He is not snooze inspiring.
As far as "No promo skills, no charisma, no look, good in-ring skills" goes, how about Jeff Jarrett?
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I reckon you can separate charisma and mic work. Take Jeff Hardy for example. He's never cut a memorable promo in his life but he's always had an off the charts level of charisma.
ReplyDeleteCharisma & Mic work do normally go hand in hand though
1) in terms of who got furthest just based off charisma I'd say Warrior actually. Terrible in the ring unless he was against Savage or Patterson had planned the match down to the tiniest detail. His promos were more stream of consciousness rants really (I know they have their fans but...)
2) Great in the ring but dull otherwise has to be Dean Malenko.
3) and the person who got furthest based just on mic skills? Part of me wants to say JBL. I know he had a few decent to great matches but most of them were awful. But I'd put him in my top ten all time guys for mic work. Does Ventura qualify here as well?
Bob Backlund had charisma! It was a different era. He wasn't champion for so long just because....he had the type of good-guy appeal that totally worked in the era.
ReplyDeleteAnd the crazed Backlund in 1994 gave some of the best promos in the business at the time.
Yeah, I agree about Dean Malenko.
ReplyDeleteJarrett has good in-ring skills, and definitely promo skills. Look and charisma are up for debate, but I believe he has them. I think Jarrett gets too much hate. Should he be a multi-time World Champ? Probably not. But in no universe is he untalented or unentertaining.
ReplyDeleteIn his book, Shawn Michaels said that his match with Jarrett at In Your House 1995 or '96 was one of his favorite matches that does not get any praise from fans.
ReplyDeleteSuggesting Andre didn't know how to work is ridiculous. He wasn't the greatest, but he knew how to work a crowd, how to make someone look good, and knew when to make the apropriate comeback. I hope we're not basing his entire career on his last 4-5 years when he was working when he should've been confined to a wheel chair.
ReplyDelete1. Ivan Putski & Big John Studd
ReplyDelete2. Yeah, Dean Malenko is a good choice.
3. New Jack? He is a bit charismatic I guess.
The wrestler who made it the farthest without any of those qualities is Greg Gagne
Totally disagree on the notion that mic skills and charisma go hand-in-hand. Obviously if you're more charismatic you're probably going to be good on the mic too, but look at say, Rey Mysterio? Dude has never been the best promo but he's got the 'it' factor that gets people emotionally invested into him, which is surely what charisma is. I'd argue that Bret Hart was similar, as was Sid for that matter. There's tons of guys who have charisma - something intangible that draws you to them - without great mic skills.
ReplyDeleteMuch respect for Mr. Backlund
ReplyDeleteOk, does anyone actually like Larry Zbyszko? Man, he was awful. Granted my knowledge of him is mainly from his time as a WCW commentator, but the guy had no look, his promos were all self-aggrandizing nonsense, and his main in ring contribution is stalling for 7 minutes. Who the hell would actually want to watch this guy?
ReplyDeleteThe guy to make it the furthest with no ability, no charisma, & no speaking ability has gotta be The Great Khali.
ReplyDeleteI agree he's very talented.
ReplyDeleteI just disagree that he's entertaining.
AJ Styles isn't a great worker? What the heck? AJ is one of the better wrestlers of the last decade, he brings way more to the table than just high-flying.
ReplyDeleteJeff Jarrett is an odd one for me too. I can appreciate what he does and I can understand why other people enjoy him, but for whatever reason I just don't really like watching him. He's just one of those guys whose face pops up on TV and I suddenly need something in another room. I will say, I found his TNA version of his character the most bearable of the bunch, with his WWF/1rst run WCW character being as dull as dishwater.
ReplyDeleteYeah....I would have to disagree on that one....in his prime, Andre was a decent worker (so was Abby...Pedro wasn't bad either)....I think "Look" and "Charisma" has to be 2 different categories. For instance, Kerry Von Erich had an Amazing Look, but not much Charisma, whereas Dusty Rhodes had plenty of charisma, but not the look of a wrestler.
ReplyDelete1) All look/charisma - This without a doubt would be Lex Luger moreso than Andre. Kamala as well.
2) All workrate/No mic-skills or look/charisma - I would have to say this has Bobby Eaton written all over it (Cornette did all the charisma/mic work for the Express). You could make a case for the Great Muta as well.
3) All mic work/no workrate or look/charisma - Zybysko could work occasionally as well. I think the Road Dogg would be the best example
There's a fourth thing wrestlers need to be successful that the e-mailer didn't mention: connections. Greg Gagne had that in spades. Politics and know the right people is just as important as any on-camera skills, maybe more so.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of all look/charisma, Billy Jack Haynes would be another example.....Up until about 5-6 months ago, Daniel Bryan would be a shoo-in for the "All-workrate" category....an even better question: what about those with 2 of the 3 qualities?
ReplyDeleteI actually did enjoy him in both capacities. He could definitely stall like a mofo' but I enjoyed him as part of The Enforcers tag-team and The Dangerous Alliance. I liked him as a WCW commentator too and I never understood why people were so hard on him, I enjoyed his old-man style crabbiness and brand of sarcasm. I always liked his line he'd use when a babyface would get caught or suckered into something, "the young and the useless". His 'wrestling' career during his later WCW stint was no great shakes though and pretty much relied solely on Scott Hall to make it any fun.
ReplyDeleteRoad Dogg was a great Face In Peril, he's a similar worker to Dusty Rhodes, meaning he's A-OK
ReplyDeleteWell, he has improved. But I think more fans will classify him in the Rey Misterio category.
ReplyDeleteTo realize just how brilliant Andre was, all you have to do is look at most of the other giants wrestling has ever had.
ReplyDeleteI'd even disagree with the 'last 4 to 5-year' argument (which is a common one). Obviously he was limited and slow, but he had entertaining matches despite that--which is something only a talented worker could do. Watch his final Royal Rumble appearance, where he basically carried the first third of the match. That's a great performer.
Luger was a decent power wrestler though, at least at one point. I think his decline was due more to injury and laziness than a lack of talent. Not to say he was ever one of the more talented guys, but I think he was a level above a guy like The Ultimate Warrior, who was always kind of clueless in the ring. I think if you put Warrior in the NWA without the great WWF booking and Pat Patterson finishes that he'd been gone in 6 months.
ReplyDeleteJarrett is solid but when TNA started by booking him as a badass heel, it came off ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteHow about The Honky Tonk Man as someone with great charisma but lacking in ring skills and mic skills?
ReplyDeleteOr were his promos better than I'm recalling?
What was his wrestling style like? Admittadly I really only know him as a commentator, and the few matches I've seen were stall fests. So when he actually got down to business how was he? What was his finisher?
ReplyDeleteExcept for the no look part that pretty well describes Jeff Jarrett too.
ReplyDeleteI think AJ brings a lot more to the table than Rey in terms of work rate. That's not a criticism of Rey btw who I have a huge amount of time for.
ReplyDeleteAJ is easily one of the top ten workers of the past decade in terms of work rate.
The thing that holds him back is that he's never developed a character
To put another spin on this who scores highest across all three categories but ended up having the least impact on the business.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Nigel McGuinness / Desmond Wolfe would have to be fairly high up in that regard. He really had everything and for a few months in TNA it looked like he was going to break out then.... Did we ever find out what it was that ended his career?
Agreed on Putski. He looked amazing even though he was short but he was terrible in the ring. He was absolutely the worst.
ReplyDeleteChris Benoit on pure in ring work made it to the top. If only he knew how to channel all of that rage I bet he'd have been able to cut a hell of a promo too
ReplyDeleteIt's bizarre that there's been no definite confirmation as to what forced him out of active competition. He's probably saving the big reveal for that documentary he made, but it's kind of odd that in this day and age nobody has been able to find out for sure yet.
ReplyDeleteI hated Honky Tonk Man sooooo much. And I always cheered for heels. But I couldn't stand him.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, maybe that means his promos were good in the sense that everyone wanted to see him get the crap kicked out of him.
Isn't it that he's too concussed?
ReplyDeleteI hated the guy, too. My favourite moment with him is at the beginning of the Monday Nitro in Canada (the one where Bret knocked out Goldberg with the steel plate) and how Larry stood up to address the crowd during the open and got BOOED like crazy.
ReplyDeleteGreat Muta for #2? I can agree with the lack of mic skills, but you're crazy to think Muta didn't have a look; he has one of the most distinct looks in wrestling, and there really wasn't anything like him when he debuted in the NWA
ReplyDeleteI believe we have a winner
ReplyDeleteCrazy Backlund is probably the scariest wrestler of all time.
ReplyDeleteHow about Bruno Sammartino (since we just had a thread about this)? Guy didn't have promo skills, was very limited in the ring with his moveset, and looked like a furball.
ReplyDeleteBenoit. Easy. Goofy look, no charisma, no promo skills, but a good worker. Somehow became world champ.
ReplyDeleteBeniot had a HELL of a look by the time he was champion. Steroid induced but still...
ReplyDeleteGoldberg too. The guy couldn't wrestle, couldn't cut a promo, but damned if we didn't all want to see him run over somebody each week. As I'm sure others have mentioned, charisma is intangible and is nearly impossible to teach, whereas promo work and wrestling ability can be rated and can be improved upon.
ReplyDeleteJarrett was one of those guys I wanted to like. When he was doing nothing in his second WWF run I thought he was wasted and wanted them to do something with him. I liked him well enough as the midcard heel. IC Champion, maybe in the right program he could challenge for the WWF Championship on a B-PPV, but I just didn't buy into him as anything more than an annoying midcard heel who trades the midcard title and eventually gets laid out by main eventers. Basically trading wins with D-Lo and getting Stunned by Austin was the ideal use for him.
ReplyDeleteI still think a lot of the Andre love is due to the myth of Andre so-to-speak. Put Big Show in his position and there's no comparison. Big Show would have done better business in the 70s and 80s, hands down.
ReplyDeleteI think Brad Armstrong is actually a better candidate for #2.
ReplyDeleteEven before he was champ, he had the look... probly the only guy with a mullet I would never think of messing with.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a definitive answer for 1 or 2, but I'm easily going with JBL for #3. I don't think "legendary" is a good word to define him, but either way, the guy could hype his matches like few others. Put himself over, make his opponent seem important, come across like a total dick the only way a true heel can... he had it all when it came to talking the talk. It's just too bad that 99.9% of the matches he was hyping were absolutely godawful in terms of workrate and rewatchability. Hell, even a workrate prodigy like Shawn Effing Michaels could barely scrape only a ** match out of him. He was THAT bad, not to mention notorious for dragging his otherwise better opponents down to his level (again, most of the time).
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've gathered, his career didn't "end" it's just that he's not making enough from indy shows to pay his bills.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Brad was a great worker but unfortunately nothing ever seemed to click for the guy.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely have to disagree on Benoit's look, he had it.
ReplyDeleteI would say that he had charisma too, but zero mic skills. Not top drawer charisma, but definitely not dull in the ring.
I think you're underrating Benoit a bit. There's a reason why even going back to 1996 people wanted Benoit as a world champion, whereas no one ever thought that, say, Dean Malenko would or should ever be champ. Benoit had this very intense presence to him, like he KNEW he's the shit. Not a handsome man, but really carried himself like a world class athlete not to be fucked with. And maybe it was just that at the time he was paired with Pillman a lot, but there was something about him that looked & felt very Gen X. Contrast that with Malenko, who was really just a guy who came out in his black tights & wrestled. It's a subtle difference.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on lack of promo skills, but even still he has cut a few very good ones (granted they were probably written for him by Paul Heyman).
Rey Mysterio is a great worker...
ReplyDeleteAJ Styles is a fantastic babyface, his timing is incredible.
HTM could talk AND work just fine. Watch the match where he beat Steamboat for the IC belt. There aren't many wrestlers with that kind of timing.
ReplyDeleteHe was a cheap heel who stalled constantly. Used the piledriver, I think, and late in his career, a combination guillotine choke and bodyscissor.
ReplyDeleteMr Kennedy, Kenzo Suzuki, and the Undertaker (first ten years) would qualify for #3.
ReplyDeleteNo way. Andre was a better wrestler and a FAR better heel. Big Show is pretty great, and has suffered from a lot of poor booking over the years, but I'm sorry, no, he isn't better than Andre was. Nor would he have been in 1975.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he would been been very successful.
You need to look back at Jarrett during his time in USWA to really get a feel for why a lot of companies thought he was a "big deal". Jerry Lawler was the only guy in Memphis more over than him, and for a while that was BARELY true.
ReplyDeleteI think talking about someone's charisma is the most useless thing ever since it's so personal. If you just like a guy and you can't really explain it, that's charisma. I think Jeff Jarrett has loads of charisma, I'm probably the only one, but that doesn't mean I'm right or those that disagree are wrong.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I can see people arguing over ring skills and promos and look. There are things you can compare and talk about beyond "I don't like him/her".
I also think character/gimmick needs to be put in here, maybe combine that with promo skill. I mean, take a guy like Cena, who is a good not great wrestler, add a great look and a character that a significant portion of the audience loves to death and bam, star.
Benoit could cut a very specific type of promo along the lines of being the best in the world and wanting/being able to hurt his opponent. His promos in ECW were often very good and his original heel run in WWE produced some pretty good ones too. You really couldn't take him out of his comfort level aside from being the straight man to Kurt Angle but when you played to his strengths, he could do good promos.
ReplyDeleteCharisma, on the other hand, is exactly what Bo said. In the vast roster of WCW, despite the fact that he was often not featured or pushed, the crowds usually reacted well to Benoit, sometimes at really hot levels, because of his in-ring charisma. He didn't need to pose or Whoo or anything like that; he just kicked your ass and looked pissed whilst doing it. I remember Nash once saying how silly it was to push a guy who looked like your gardener on the juice and how I found that funny because Nash in WCW rarely looked intimidating, just tall.
Rey and AJ are both great workers. I can only assume you haven't been watching wrestling very long. Or else you're strictly a WWE fan. But even then. Rey is one of the best workers they have.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be no serious consensus about what ended his career, but if you listen to him on Colt Cabana's podcast, you really get a sense that he is clinically depressed in general and has generally negative feelings about the business and what it does to workers. He's said that concern over the effects of multiple concussions is what ended it, but he didn't actually say he was majorly concussed and had to retire, just that he was concerned about their effects. That, plus not making a ton of money, plus what he was doing to his body (he was clearly on roids in TNA, and at some point I think he got gun-shy about it) and just his general attitude all combined to basically make him say to hell with trying to be a big star as an in ring performer. Although now I think he has a great future as a commentator.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to sound odd, but I agree that Jarrett has that presence, but only when he has the long hair and goatee.
ReplyDeleteCharisma: Sandman. As much as his strengths were accentuated by Heyman, he really did get over solely based on how he connected with the crowd during his entrances. His promos never did any heavy lifting, and he was never much of a wrestler, but he managed to become a champion in the #3 promotion and spin that into jobs with the other three biggest companies during his active career.
ReplyDeleteIn Ring: Lance Storm. In certain circumstances, I'll give you that he could cut an ok promo, but namely he was just a drab guy who was a fantastic in ring worker who somehow ended up being an uppercard or even main event level worker in WWE, WCW, and ECW. Not too shabby, considering.
Mic Skills: Gotta be Road Dogg. Without the live mic to get him over he was a blah wrestler, and while he had some degree of physical charisma, he mainly looked like a white redneck who decided at WAY too old of an age to go hip-hop, and his goofy crazy legs routine was just cheesy. Yet he was able to get himself massively over on the mic.
Person with none of the three qualities who became a success anyway: Khali. Worst World Champion ever. No other argument. Even David Arquette was more suited to be champ.
Person with all three of the qualities who was never a success anyway: Brian Kendrick. Not that it's all over for him yet but, besides being small, he had everything you could ask for in a wrestler. He was good looking, charismatic in his body movements, great in the ring, has a great mind for the business, can cut decent promos and even do storyline acting type stuff well (check out his voice work in SvR 2010, in the Mickie James storyline, or even some of his stuff in TNA during the EV2.0 shit). Plus he had a big supporter in Shawn Michaels. He should have been a big underdog babyface, or slimy heel, at the uppercard/main event level. It's a damn shame he's not a bigger star.
I don't know. but I think most of us can agree that Big Show is pretty good - and even amazing if compared to most other giants in wrestling history.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I always thought he kinda looked like a juiced up retarded kid.
ReplyDeleteOh absolutely. And if you extend the "giant" label to include very tall and very fat wrestlers, you could add Vader, Yokozuna, Jerry Blackwell, One Man Gang, and Kevin Nash. Nash was lazy, but he wasn't untalented.
ReplyDeleteGoing back a few days to the WWE/TNA dream match threat AJ Styles vs Rey Mysterio has to be up there
ReplyDeleteGotta agree on Bryan, I thought that he was as dull as can be but he's absolutely coming into his own lately.
ReplyDeleteThe YES thing annoyed the hell out of me for a good long while, but it's catching on (with me) now.
I thought Honky was pretty ok on the mic and worked the chickenshit gimmick really well (mic and ringwork).
ReplyDeleteHe may not be a guy that could go out and have a great technical classic with anyone in any different style, but he could work a HTM match really well. He knew what he was doing.
Can't say as I'm as high on Kendrick as you are, but I liked him generally. He was just too small.
ReplyDeleteIs he still active? I don't follow any indies.
I'd say Jim Duggan got by solely on charisma.
ReplyDeleteHe never had a great match, and wasn't known for cutting promos, but the fans still loved him.
Yup, although not in most of the biggest ones. He just launched his own wrestling school in California.
ReplyDeleteHonky could work just fine, he just chose not to.
ReplyDeleteTed DiBiasie Tuxedo Match.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably go Benoit. No Charisma, not a particularly stand out look but an awesome wrestler... He was uber over most of his career based on how badass people knew he was in the ring.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who thinks that a McMahon would make anyone without any endearing qualities a WWWF/WWF/WWE Champion is deluded. Be it Ivan Koloff, Diesel, Vince McMahon himself, or anybody else, they all brought something to the table, even if it didn't necessarily light the world on fire.
ReplyDeleteGreat Khali is...um...really, REALLY tall!
ReplyDeleteHe'd have been an 8 time champ with AJ by his side.
ReplyDeleteHe was able to get his next-door-neighbor-champion character over, knew what to do and when (99% of working), and had the physique, so he must have been doing something right.
ReplyDeletePut Big Show in the ring in 1974 and have him toss around Black Gorman and a couple other 5'8" wrestlers for 8 minutes in front of a stadium of rubes and it gets a bigger reaction.
ReplyDeleteAJ I think at points over the last decade has been considered by many as the best in-ring talent in the world.. .that's what seperated him from all the other X-division spot monkeys... he was a GREAT WORKER, that's why he is a high profile guy. Same goes for Rey, he really is much more than a great high flyer and when motivated he can put on killer matches.
ReplyDelete"Gimmick/Look" should be #1, not "Charisma" which shouldn't be wedged together with look. Charisma is too broad and really encompasses all 3 of those points.
ReplyDeleteWithout nitpicking too much and off the top of my head:
Mostly Look/Gimmick: Sid, Road Warriors, Ultimate Warrior, Andre, Big Slow, Sandman. Maybe Kane. Hogan and Nash aren't too far off.
Mostly Wrestling Ability/Workrate: Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Benoit, Ricky Steamboat, Malenko
Mostly Promos & Mic Work: Dusty Rhodes, The Miz, Road Dogg
USWA promoter: Jerry Jarrett.
ReplyDeleteEnd of discussion.
Now Ive hated Jarrett all the up until his wife died. It just seemed to click with him as far as I am concerned.
He came back as a babyface due to his wife dying and could have rode that into another title reign. I would have bought it. he wasnt ready to come back and all that heat went away.
then he came back again as a heel against angle (iirc) and it was wasted.
But in every incarnation since then he has been used sparingly and always fun.
Double J: Double M. A against Joe
"Dos J" while in Mexico those are upper mid card fun.
Jarrett NOW is good.
hardy cut a pre taped promo against Taker on SMackdown, debuting the joker-esque face paint that blew me away.
ReplyDeleteHe always had one during his title reign in TNA that also blew me away.
Both were pre taped and edited/cut for effect but they ruled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zYfaTBLk0
ReplyDeletewhat you described is totally "look".
ReplyDeleteWhy "bigger"? What does Big Show have that Andre didn't?
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see the kind of heat Big Show can't duplicate, YouTube Andre's Japanese matches with Stan Hansen.
Dude I like reading your posts but kurt angle>JJ 8 days a week.
ReplyDeleteJust did. They were nuts.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with that. Now watch him behind the aces and 8's thing. God jj sucks.
ReplyDeleteI'll never forget the day I flipped on sportscenter and they were interviewing pacman jones. I had it on in the background, looked up and saw fucking jj sitting right next to him. For some reason it struck me as hysterical that this zero got himself on sportscenter.
ReplyDeleteXpac heat<Jeff jarrett heat. How do I petition the iwc to rename this? Can we get scott on board at least?
ReplyDeleteWell whatever universe I'm in he kinda sucks in.
ReplyDeleteAj is a great worker but rey rey is absolutely better as a worker. Not a knock on aj, its just that rey is a top tier in ring guy.
ReplyDeleteAndre's just the scariest looking thing you could imagine. Whereas Big Show, to me, just looks like an enormous regular guy. Obviously, it would be terrifying to face either of thm in real life
ReplyDeleteDo the match move for move today and it doesn't get the same reaction. Andre was perfect for his time, but is more like Khali in today's wrestling.
ReplyDeleteWant to know why Big Show doesn't get the same reaction today as Andre did back in 1981... because Cena puts Big Show up on his shoulders, mugs for the camera, and dumps him off THREE TIMES IN THE SAME MATCH! Now if it hadn't happened at all... for years, it would get a huge reaction. Look no further than Show vs Brock in MSG in 2002. Please, TELL ME, Andre at his best could put on a performance like that. Show could... and he did it in fucking black jeans.
Owen didn't get over for shit as a straight up worker in his early days, it was his goofy heel persona that got him to near main event level.
ReplyDeleteNot in my opinion. And it's exactly that, my OPINION, I've never liked Angle as much as I've liked Jarrett.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Show's been badly booked over the years, and that he would have been a bigger deal in the 1970s, when his size, like Andre's, would have been unique. Andre also blossomed in the territory era, which favoured novelty wrestlers. But every wrestler is a product of his time--if Andre were alive and in his prime today, yes, of course he could have performed matches at Big Show's level. He would have had to. And, I argue, he would have done it better. He had equivalent athleticism, a better look, and more charisma.
ReplyDeleteComparing Andre to Khali is ridiculous. Khali doesn't have a fraction of Andre's OR Big Show's talent.
Yeah.....Doogan vs. Debussy in Mid-South was classic!
ReplyDelete