Here's a question that I don't think has ever been answered: what if Shawn had called Taker's bluff? Would the Deadman really have kicked his ass all over the lockerroom? And what happens then? Because if anything, Shawn would have had the perfect excuse not to work that night, plus some heavy ammo for a lawsuit to boot (especially if he could prove that WWE knew what was going to happen and did nothing to stop it).
I mean, it's a great story and all, but there could have been some serious consequences if things had gone the other way.
I'm pretty sure Shawn would have worked the match with a black eye. I mean, Shawn threatened a lawsuit against Bret Hart for their locker room hair-pulling spat, giving exactly the reasons you listed, and nothing ever came of that either. Wrestlers are of course notorious for talking big and then doing out and having a fake fight regardless.
There's still a big part of me that wishes Taker would have done just that, if the story is indeed true. If anyone deserved some old-school straightened up at that point, it was Shawn.
ReplyDeleteEven if Shawn was being a dick at that point he still went out and completely tore the house down with Austin with a broken back.
ReplyDelete"And you wanna know why HBK doesn't lay down for anybody?
ReplyDeleteCAUSE HE'S ALWAYS BENDING OVERRRRRR!"
What's the story here? I'm not in the loop on this one
ReplyDeleteBefore WM14, Shawn was making a stink about having to lose to Austin in the main event (like he was prone to around this time) so the Undertaker threatened him that he better do his job or else face some physical repercussions.
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody remember the post-WM 14 press conference? I can't recall if Austin was there but maybe Vince was and HBK, HHH and Chyna interrupted. Shawn was mad (probably playing up the Tyson interference thing) but the way he was acting and kicking the door open on his way out always made me skeptical about his back injury. Especially since he was walking around like normal and had a propensity to fake injuries before.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying he wasn't hurt but maybe the injury wasn't as serious as everyone claims it was.
Yup that performance he gave when he was in clearly no condition to work goes a long for me as far as making up for skipping out the year before
ReplyDeleteIf anyone deserved to get their ass kicked for not doing whats right for business it was the undertaker
ReplyDeleteShawn is a horrible, horrible actor. I can't imagine that he was merely selling back pain during the match itself. I'm no Shawn fan but it clearly looked like he was gutting it out.
ReplyDeleteyeah watching that again and knowing what was happening at the time you can totally tell his back is fucked up
ReplyDeleteSome dipshit on Neogaf claims that Shawn's back injury was completely false. I almost considered joining just to till him he's a moron but sanity prevailed and I still have nothing to do with the awfulness that is Neogaf forums.
ReplyDeleteCare to explain? Are you talking about his 2000 to 2003 run? Yeah that was bad but I'd say he made up for it.
ReplyDeleteAccording to his book he felt losing clean and getting knocked out by Tyson was enough and that draping the t-shirt over him was too much. They did it anyway, so he was pissed about it. Afterwards everyone was talking about Austin and making him out to be the big deal, which pissed Shawn off because he felt he deserved a pat on the back for what he did. So he busted into the press conference to tell someone off - Shane was the first one to go up to him and calm things down, so it happened to be him. He just wasn't taking it well that it wasn't about him anymore.
ReplyDeleteOf course he also claims the Undertaker story didn't happen, so who knows whats true there.
You mean because his performance got better? Because if he has a "giving back by putting over new stars" run in him we're still waiting for it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying he wasn't hurt but...I dunno. Shawn may not be a good actor but he is a good seller and he's not above playing stupid games in the ring when he feels slighted (like mentioned in Scream09's post about Shawn's book). Plus, years later after his career-ending back injury, he was still doing moonsaults into announce tables up until his retirement. So while I agree he was in pain, I always doubt the severity of his injury.
ReplyDeleteBlame the bookers for that not Taker.
ReplyDeleteHow so? Who has the Undertaker put over to make up for his past selfishness?
ReplyDeleteAgain blame the bookers. I'm so fucking sick of everyone saying Taker is to blame for not putting guys over WHEN NOT ONE REPORT HAS EVER SAID HE REFUSED TO PUT SOMEONE OVER.
ReplyDeleteIt's not really a matter of refusing to put guys over, though. And you can't really blame the bookers for so long when Taker can come in and call his own shots for the past seven or eight years. Other main-event guys like Jericho and Foley have made an Olympic sport of getting younger guys over. But is there ONE guy, in his entire multi-decade career, that Undertaker has made a main-event level competitor?
ReplyDelete"And you can't really blame the bookers for so long when Taker can come in and call his own shots for the past seven or eight years"
ReplyDeleteAnd you can prove this how? Yes I realize Taker is a main event guy and that gives him some stroke but I have yet to find one instance where he's refused to work with talent or put them over. And again, that last part of your post can be blamed on booking, NOT Taker.
But guys like Jericho and Foley have gotten involved in angles for the sole purpose of getting guys over when they can easily do things on their own time via their various interests. You don't think Taker can go up to Vince (who is the only booker...there's no team) and say that he wants to put a young up and comer over, like so many veterans have done over the years?
ReplyDeleteSure, Taker may not have refused to work with guys. But he has made them look bad when guys like Flair or Bret Hart would make them look like a million bucks. Kurt Angle, CM Punk, Edge, Jeff Hardy, Brock Lesnar, Rob Van Dam and others are prime examples.
Shawn claims that the Undertaker story didn't happen, but Undertaker did told to Michael Landsberg, in an interview back in 2002 in Off The Record, that if Shawn Michaels didn't do what he has to do that night then he probably would have had a long night.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who trained in OVW with a bunch of well known guys and one night I went to dinner with him and some of these guys. The talk that night was Shawn had a minor back injury, but a big cocaine problem and that's why he took a long leave of absence. I have no idea if that's the case or not, but that's what the talk was on that one night.
ReplyDeleteHe may have also taken a shot after the match, numbing everything in his back. At least then he could have moved somewhat.
ReplyDeleteJason Sensation?
ReplyDeleteDont forget he was TAPING UP HIS FISTS. Which has become a bit of a meme now.
ReplyDeleteTaker put over Jeff Hardy pretty strongly, hell he even put over Orlando Jordan in a backstage segment once. There are different ways of putting guys over besides losing a match to them. Plus, he can only do so much, up to the talent themselves and how the bookers book them to use that rub to their advantage
ReplyDeleteI could believe that as his drug problem was well-documented.
ReplyDeleteI remember Shawn admitted it did happen himself, maybe on that old Confidential show?
ReplyDeleteIn Austins Blu-Ray either during the doc or his alternate commentary (or both) he talks about how he wasnt totally sure the match was going to happen and stuff like that. Seemingly confirming that there was something going on.
ReplyDeleteI understand that, especially your point about putting guys over without losing to them. But I think that the fact that no one can name ONE guy Taker elevated to main-event status in a 20+ year career is still pretty sad.
ReplyDeleteLesnar??
ReplyDeleteYeah, Taker has confirmed the incident.
ReplyDelete"tore the house down" ... eh. It was a bad match.
ReplyDeleteWho has John Cena elevated? Undertaker made Mankind a main eventer. He put over Kurt Angle clean. He put over Edge as well.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't lose much because he shouldn't. Neither did Andre. NO main eventer should lose as much as Jericho and Foley do/have. They are the exceptions.
Awww, poor baby. They weren't making him a big enough deal and didn't get a pat on the back.
ReplyDeleteThe same Shawn who told Hebner to get Bret "the fuck out of the ring" because "this is MY moment" when Shawn first won the title, turns around and has a hissy fit when the same thing happens to him. Surprise, surprise.
Just item #335 in the reasons why 90's Shawn was a hypocritical piece of shit.
John Cena has tried to elevate a few guys. He laid down for both Miz and Punk on big stages. He took Edge and Sheamusto the next level. Same for RVD but he went out and fucked that up on his own. He also did all he could to get Wade Barrett over. I know "SuperCena" always got his wins back, but like another poster said earlier, making someone look good can be just as important as laying down for them
ReplyDeleteNot like you would've been able to reply to him immediately anyway. I signed up for an account three years ago and I'm still waiting for an account approval e-mail.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't great, but bad? I'd say a solid ***-***1/2. Though for me, knowing how bad his back was made the match better due to some of the crazy bumps he was taking.
ReplyDeleteHow big a coke problem would it need to be for a WRESTLER to leave the ring for 4 years? I just don't buy that.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should coin a new phrase like Brad and Angelina being Brangelina. We call him Underbooker when we want to bash him and/or the bookers for 20 years of making everyone else look like chumps.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah it is hard to know how much of it is him and how much is the bookers. They may tell him to take all the offense in 99.9% of the matches, including against guys he's allegedly trying to get over like Jeff Hardy, Angle, Punk, or Edge (Lesnar he went 50/50 but he of course had to have a handicap with a broken hand), or it may be his choice. Hard to say. I often hear stuff about him backstage thinking he's some kind of guardian of the business (dress code, hazing, etc.) but a the same time guys like Bret, Austin, Rock, Jericho, etc. all respect the hell out of him, so he must be doing something right.
I still don't see how he ever got better.
ReplyDeleteActually I think he's a shitty seller, too. Being a great bumper is not the same thing as being a great seller.
ReplyDeleteyessir
ReplyDeleteBuy that logic, Roddy Piper would have never came back to wrestling.
ReplyDelete4 to 5 star matches with Batista, Edge, Shawn, and Hunter is "never got better" by your logic?
ReplyDeleteTaker's an odd case. Wrestling fans seem to bash him all the time, but actual WRESTLERS all seem to respect and admire him. I actually haven't heard ANY wrestlers bashing him the way they frequently do Shawn & Triple-H (even pro-WWE guys still make aside comments that are basically about HHH without specifically calling him out). Can anyone think of any instances where he got bashed by an actual wrestler?
ReplyDeleteI wonder how many times he's just refused to lose or sell for somebody. I know I've read rumors about him fucking over WCW guys for not knowing how to work and the like, but did he CHOOSE to make them look like shit, or did he get TOLD to do that?
Shawn seems to do stuff like that- in the "Rivalries" DVD interview with Bret Hart, he does a lot of "I don't remember that", too. Like the whole "I won't lay down for you" comment he made to Bret gets denied. I think it's a combo of he doesn't remember/it didn't happen EXACTLY that way/it didn't happen/he was too fucking high to know what he did or said/it did happen but he BELIEVES it didn't because he was a consummate liar who often believed his own shit.
ReplyDeleteIm not sure how genuine it was but on the Bret/HBK blu ray they mention that was something they worked out to continue their "fake" behind the scenes heat.
ReplyDeleteyep, that's the question. We don't know. Unlike knowing HBK did this or that or HHH whined to get a finish changed, we have no idea if UT was told to make DDP look like a chump or Kronik to be stiffed. We don't know if he's told to take 90% of the offense. My guess is for the most part, he is. I don't think wrestlers would respect him so much otherwise. Which is why criticism of him taking too much in the ring and never jobbing should be referred to as Underbooker to avoid confusion that we are letting Vince and the writers off the hook.
ReplyDeleteHe put over that up and comer Big Show at No Mercy 2008...
ReplyDelete