Hi Scott,
What is your take on Foley changing his tune regarding HHH and Raw last night?
Foley went on Twitter last night commenting on how he felt HHH was referring to him as as the "guy he never wants to be ... just hanging around for nostalgic pops." I thought he meant Foley too last night, and I felt bad--Foley is a guy who did and continues to do so much for THIS BUSINESS and doesn't deserve potshots like that. Today Foley changed his tune and is simply thankful for HHH bringing him back to WWE. There is no doubt HHH has looked down on Foley and talks negatively about him to the higher ups. Foley used to call HHH out for things like this (like the Lilian Garcia "horse" thing), so is it part of contracts now that everyone must be thankful to the damn guy now? I can't stand it. Thanks for letting me vent, lol.
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2012/0828/555725/mick-foley-triple-h/
Anthony Viggiani
New York, NY
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Of course everyone has to be grateful to him! He's the Game! The best IN THIS BUSINESS! He's going to revamp developmental WITH A BROKEN FUCKING ARM. TWICE. He does it all for our entertainment! Nobody needed to put HIM over! Brock Lesnar may have quit with a 15 second Tout, but HHH DESERVES the entire first hour dedicated to him and how great he is. Foley should be grateful for his job! You think that people IN THIS BUSINESS care about some rinky-dink newspaper's sales charts? If it wasn't a WWE-approved book, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Maybe if he became an actor and did WWE Films movies about an angry ex-con trying to set his life straight (twice), people would take him seriously again.
IN THIS BUSINESS.
It's funny, the emailer thought of Foley, but I was thinking Flair. I was actually surprised at his characterization of the guy he didn't want to be since it seemed to be screaming "Ric Flair". Especially since Flair still wrestles (as of last year).
ReplyDeleteIf I were Triple H, I would be angry at Foley. Triple H feels he would have a been a star with or without Foley's help. Foley makes it seem that HE was the one that launched Triple H.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear that HHH and Foley had some kind of falling-out around the time WM 2000 (16) took place and said rift has only grown over time. Foley actually alludes to this in one of his books (can't remember if it was the first or second) and as noted in the email began openly criticizing HHH in public for his antics. And, of course, there was the infamous "no one ever laid down for me" comment by HHH from a while back.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's why people were willing to believe the so-called rumor about HHH not wanting Foley on TV, because it's obvious that some bad blood exists between them and has for some time.
My first thought was "wow, HHH just took a shot at Foley," too. I was more surprised, though, when CM Punk referred to people speaking in Lawler's ear when calling him a puppet.
ReplyDeleteOf course Foley thought it was about himself, he's completely self-absorbed.
ReplyDeleteAGREED! Thank you for saying that. I wanted to say the same thing but was afraid of the repercussions.
ReplyDeleteFoley seems like a nice enough guy but his ego is right up there with Triple H's.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't it be both?
ReplyDeleteHHH would've been a star without the Foley program. It's fine to say that it was an awesome program (it was), but people have let their love of Foley convince them that without it, HHH wouldn't have made it as a major player. For one thing, hooking him up with Steph (on-screen) was a bigger reason for his 2000 success.
ReplyDeleteBret/Austin is another one like that IMO. It's one of my Top 3 favourite feuds of all-time, but Austin would've been huge without it (assuming he still worked at or near the top of the card of course).
I only began giving a crap about HHH after Foley put him over at Royal Rumble 2000, so suck my balls Hunter
ReplyDeleteI totally thought he was talking about Flair too.
ReplyDeleteBy that measure, HHH can hang around for as long as he wants. Fans have to be nostalgic to get a nostalgia pop.
ReplyDeleteFor some weird reason I truly want to believe that HHH is actually the illegitimate love child of Vince McMahon and his incestuous relationship with Stephanie will result in their children having real life superpowers!
ReplyDeleteI don't agree. HHH built his whole Cerebral Assassin reputation on his success against Foley. He embarrassed Mick, abused him, and then beat him twice, clean. Not to mention in 1997, when Mick brought him up to the upper midcard level by bumping like a maniac for the guy. He gave HHH his first meaningful program both times.
ReplyDeleteNot to say that HHH never would have risen to the top, anyways. He had skill, the support of Vince, and, as you mentioned, a big program with Steph. Still, Foley was crucial in establishing HHH as the heel that could talk the talk AND walk the walk. Very few WWF/E heels have ever gotten that kind of treatment.
I'm a dedicated HHH apologist and even *I* liked this post!
ReplyDeleteI agree that the Foley program played a big role in his main event success. I guess I'm trying to say if you replaced it with another, comparable program (almost like Wins Above Replacement), then HHH would still wind up at the same place 12 years later.
ReplyDeleteI've just felt like Foley gets too much credit for HHH's main event ascension, when it was the addition of Steph (IMO) that put him over the top.
Take Vince away from Austin (and replace him with an actual wrestler or stable) and I can believe that Stone Cold doesn't become the crossover star he did (still a top guy, but more Bret/Shawn/Cena than Hogan).
I just read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Outlier" a few weeks ago. The book is about how no one is a "self-made man" and how anyone who is successful both put in a TON of hard work but also was in a culture that made sure that hard work met opportunity.
ReplyDeleteIf HHH or Austin were coming up in today's WWE, it's unlikely either one would be a huge star. Both had the benefits of WWE allowing them to say whatever they wanted, getting lots and lots of time to develop due to the WWE's desperation to find new star talent, and older stars who were willing to work programs to put them over.
So, I don't think it's too much to ask Austin to give Bret a nod or HHH to give Foley a nod and thank them for contributing to their success. Austin seems to be ok with giving Bret a spot of thanks now and again, but HHH seems to be Hell-bent on establishing it was him on his own that climbed to the top.
Foley is a mark for himself.
ReplyDeleteAlways has been.
HHH is a mark for himself.
Always has been.
Heel-Heel program.
Nobody wins.
PS- I was saying "IN THIS BUSINESS" before "IN THIS BUSINESS" was cool.
I think HHH's insecurity regarding his top position has really worn out its welcome with a lot of people. I mean, the guy could legitimately main event any show he wants, but he still feels the need to put himself over as the biggest star to ever step into the ring any chance he gets. I understand there's a lot of self-promotion in wrestling, but he seems to want the WWE to function as an entity to feed his ego.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, it just seems like the guy has a hard time admitting anyone else ever helped him or that it's ok to lose a match and not make it feel like the end of the world.
I thought he meant Flair, or anybody who has been hanging on for a long time. Like the movie the Wrestler.
ReplyDeleteI get that people see Foley as having an ego, but I don't see how anybody can't see HHH as being pretty pathetic for all the shots he (and Flair for that matter) takes at Foley. Mick never used TV time in WWE or TNA to bury guys. If he had something to say, he did it on his own and was generally pretty respectful about it (ie: criticizing Flair as a booker while praising him overall).
ReplyDeleteFuji is a mark for himself.
ReplyDeleteAlways has been.
I thought he was talking about Virgil
ReplyDeleteI agree. Foley clearly has a bit of an ego, but I think the source of his self-confidence is founded on a much more positive vision of the industry. He was always interested in putting over programs, other workers, and he helped revolutionize promos for the Attitude Era. Furthermore, as you mention, he has been far more mature in airing his grievances with other workers. Sure, he has come back too many times and can come cross as arrogant at points, but he always seems approachable (at least the one time I met him) and genuinely loves wrestling.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD0rUFVDEhw
ReplyDeleteIve been saying "in this business" all day in my cube.... ppl must think im nuckin futz.
ReplyDeleteWho's a bigger star? HHH may have more power in the wrestling world...but Foley got that book success plus he's been on TV shows like The Daily Show and 30 Rock.
ReplyDeleteI am just looking at this from Triple H's POV. I can see him being upset with notion of Foley being responsible for his success.
ReplyDeleteWhen he said "punch drunk," I thought of Piper, but Flair was close to mind.
ReplyDeleteI think if you listen to crowd reactions to him, his dud of a heel character in 1999 pales in comparison to the heat he drew post-Foley. Foley made him legit in fans' eyes.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's the part that bugs people -- nobody thinks Foley was SOLELY responsible for H getting over. He was a super-talented individual. But H doesn't dole out ANY credit. As mentioned, Austin puts over Bret, Rock puts over Austin and Sting puts over Flair as the guys who helped get them over the hump. Why can't Hunter do the same?
This guy gets it.
ReplyDelete;)
Isn't the story re: Bret/Austin that Bret wanted to work with him and that got him out of the midcard? Because before they hooked up at Survivor Series 96, wasn't he just stagnating after KOTR?
ReplyDeleteI think what the Foley program did more than anything was establish HHH as a tough SOB. He wasn't just a chickenshit heel, he could go toe-to-toe when needed. By January 2000, HHH had already won the title twice and main evented every PPV since Summerslam, spanning 4 US PPVs and 1 UK PPV. That includes main eventing Armageddon 1999 vs. Vince despite Big Show being the champ.
ReplyDeleteI agree HHH would be in the same place as he is now, but his feud with Mick set the stage for how tough the character was. By this point he was gonna stay in the main event unless he did Steph wrong.
I took it as HHH referencing Hogan, Flair or Sting, and thus taking a potshot at the competition.
ReplyDeleteOh no! This is surely going to cause people to stop watching the show!
ReplyDeleteHahahahahahahahahahahaha
The flip side of that is that no one ever gave a shit about Foley until he tried to kill himself on PPV and created a generation of garbage wrestler knock-offs, just as Flair always said.
ReplyDeleteI like Foley as a guy but c'mon, his best years were over a decade ago. Walk the fuck away man. If he was really the big time writer that everyone here seems to pretend he is, he wouldn't be begging Vince for a Legends contract.
What show?
ReplyDeleteGotta disagree there, Bret *MADE* Austin with that program, pulling him out of midcard hell and giving him a reason to actually cut promos on another guy instead of just about "how good a wrestler" he was.
ReplyDeleteThat image of the blood running down Austin's face was replayed for YEARS and cemented him as the toughest SOB ever.
(Of course I regard that match as literally the GMOAT bar none, so I'm probably just completely biased.)
The whole show. The whole company. I mean, with this many complaints, surely people are running away in droves right?
ReplyDeleteOr are they not? Are they just sticking around despite the company repeatedly making it crystal clear they don't want them as fans anyway?
Regardles of what COULD have been, and obviously we'll never know that, Foley DID put HHH over CONVINCINGLY, and the only appropriate feeling for that is gratitude.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, it is WELL past time that Foley stayed disappeared. I liked the guy, but his time is VERY over at this point.
I don't understand the "his best years were over a decade ago" line. So were Hunter's. The difference is that Foley went on and did different things: he wrote, he is trying comedy, etc. Hunter is still shoving himself into main event programs and doing dramatic, 20 minute farewell speeches on RAW. Who is living in the past there?
ReplyDeleteThe point is, Foley understood his role and did it well. He was upper-midcard wrestler that consistently helped elevate people to the highest levels. HHH was a main eventer that never drew much (outside of his initial run), has made one star, and has never contributed much to "this business". I never feel like I am having Foley shoved down my throat; yet Hunter's presence is oppressive even though I hardly watch the show!
*initiating BoD meltdown*
ReplyDeleteHunter's best years started at the expense of Foley's.
ReplyDeleteHunter just participated in two fairly great semi-main events at WrestleMania.
He JUST participated in a good match with Brock (I didn't watch so I can't really comment on the quality but I've noticed the army of bitching about everything posters here seemed to actually look favorably on it)
Foley has...gotten himself kicked out of TNA for being a whiny bitch and had to come crawling back to Vince begging for a job.
I like Foley, I really do. But he's a nobody now, and has been for quite a while. He grossly overestimates his value to the business at this point. He could be great going to FCW and helping guys work on promos or maybe even booking, but his nappy fat ass being on TV? No thanks.
It seems like people automatically rush to defend him because he was so entertaining back "in the day" but even then, most of his best moments were doing comedy schtick, not actually wrestling. (I say *most* he surely had some good moments in the ring too)
Foley and it's not close imo
ReplyDeleteI just find this argument weird. Foley is doing what a man in his mid-40s who has already contributed a great deal to the business is SUPPOSED to do. I respect him more for backing off and trying new things. Contrarily, Hunter is only "relevant" because he gets to book himself as such. I few him the same as guys like Flair, Hogan, Keiji Muto, and various others that just can't seem to pack it up. Not to mention he contributes nothing. So, I guess if booking himself into main event programs makes him a "somebody," Foley's "nobody" status is much better for wrestling.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I have to say in this situation is had Foley not put HHH over so convincingly at the 2000 Royal Rumble and No Way Out the next month, HHH's career wouldn't have taken off like it did.
ReplyDeleteContributes nothing? The guy is more and more running the *entire* show. He's doing everything guys like Foley wish they could, but they never put in the work to get there (and that includes being a sneaky political fuck)
ReplyDeleteLook at Foley now. He wants to be back and "contribute" but only on his terms. Only if he can promote his comedy gigs (where he repeats most of the stories we've already heard 20 times, tell me the penis suplex story AGAIN!) or promote his books. Hunter's been there the whole time, learning the business side.
Hunter's also doing what he is SUPPOSED to do. He's inheriting this company. He's supposed to be learning the outside of the ring aspects. He's trying new things too, we just don't see it because it's all in the same company. Meanwhile, judging by the pops he gets (most of the time) people still like seeing him wrestle.
Also, Foley isn't really putting himself out there as much as he likes to pretend he is. Sure he's doing "stand-up" but what crowd do you think he's drawing? Ready made fans I'd guess for the most part. He's not going out there and performing as someone else, he's performing as a guy that *already* has a fanbase and telling stories that are strictly related to what that pre-existing fanbase wants.
It is a weird argument. It's a perfect storm really because in general people LOVE to defend Foley and LOVE to complain about HHH. I just don't think Foley is the hero everyone wants to pretend he is or Hunter's the vile villain everyone wants him to be.
Everyone loves screaming (or in Scott's case sarcastically implying) that Hunter actually *doesn't* love and respect the business. But he's been working in it for 20+ years and the people questioning his loyalty...what do they do? Sit on the internet and complain...and then *STILL* watch every single Monday.
The brock vs hhh match wasn't good. Like 2.5 to 3 stars. So not bad either but not worth downloading imo. Foley is definitely more washed up than huntor but his run from 1993 to 2000 was pretty awesome and he had as many good matches as hhh.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if its all a work between those two guys.
ReplyDeleteIs there anything worth kyping (is that how that's spelled?) from the PPV?
ReplyDeleteI've been in PA for two weeks being torture by my mother-in-law. (Is there anything LESS sexy than a Philly accent? Jesus Christ...)
If Hunter's contribution is running WWE programming then he needs to back the fuck off.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the foley program got hhh that over because on less he was working with hbk he wasn't ever that over
ReplyDeleteI'm not huge Foley mark, but to say that HHH would've been a star without those series of matches is really pushing it. Well, just saying that he's a "star" is pushing it.
ReplyDeleteIf by superpowers you mean six fingers or a cleft palette...
ReplyDeletePhilly accents are brutal but Massachusetts ones make my skun crawl. The only match from the show you should definitely see is y2j vs ziggler. Awesome opener and equal to the first punk match for Jerichos best match back. Db going over kane is cool but the match itself was nothing special. Kind of a dissapointing show as far as the matches.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that currently he's more running developmental and talent relations. I wish he'd put a bullet in creative and pull Shawn, JR, Dusty and Kevin Nash to book the actual shows (with of course a portion of the contract that forbids any of said people to actually participate on screen in ANY fashion)
ReplyDeleteHhh will never be able to book himself over the fastforward button on my remote
ReplyDeleteExactly. I am sure he contributes plenty to keep the WWE machine running. And really, none of know whether or not he is a good bureaucrat. But, good god, if the reviews of the shows are any indication (I haven't watched a complete RAW since 2005...I tried once in 2010...Didn't work), he isn't doing much for the creative aspect - and that's all I care about. I don't question HHH's loyalty to the WWE (inc.), only his loyalty to putting on a good wrestling product. I also don't think Foley is a hero. In fact, he is the opposite. He is a creative person that sacrificed his physical well-being for the product he loves, and has managed to do it in a (mostly) unpretentious manner.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, I am not sure what, specifically, Hunter has contributed to the wrestling business - either in the ring or out of it. But, I know what Foley did, so I am inclined to defend him.
Then again, we don't even know if HHH was referring to him in that promo that happened....
Thats what I was thinking too. Well not so much sting but yeah, Flair and Hogan were the ones that popped into my head.
ReplyDeleteYeah but they don't want you to be a fan for anything on the show anyway. I mean, they've made it crystal clear they don't want anyone over 13 as a fan.
ReplyDeleteI was at the Garden for that match. Great fucken match.
ReplyDeleteI think I'm desensitized to Boston because of Bill Burr's podcast/every Matt Damon movie. Philly is just unbearable "Haaay let's gaaaooooooo to the staaaoooore and yet some paaaaps!"
ReplyDeleteUgh, I wanted to die. Meanwhile they were laughing at me because of the way I talk but the West Coast is all mutts from other accents so we have like...no accent really. Ugh.
I'll check out that Jericho match. I keep hoping to be impressed by his wrestling so maybe this last match will finally make it happen.
Go figure jobber we agree on Mass accents. Then again I am a Yankee fan and hate everything boston, (I respect the patriots though) so perhaps I'm bias
ReplyDeleteThat punk promo in the beginning couldn't have been aimed at kids. I think they are attempting to be all things to all people.
ReplyDeleteI haven't watched in awhile, I'm just going on the last year or so of their programming.
ReplyDeleteIf they're trying to be all things to all people then they really are totally fucking doomed. Either make really great steaks, or really cheap cheeseburgers. You can't do both and expect a full dining room.
Or some dumb shit like that...
Red sox fans post 2004 are the most annoying things on the planet. I'm an a's fan and should probably hate the yanks but the sox are so much more annoying and its probably because of those accents.
ReplyDeleteI immediately thought "Hulk Hogan"
ReplyDeleteNobody has summed up Philly better than bill burr. "Your whole city is based on someone who doesn't even exist" that was classic
ReplyDeleteDude! That was my mother-in-law's big idea too! "We caaould gaaaoooo to thaaa steps that Raaaooocky ran up!" I was like a) Fuck Rocky b) My kids are going to enjoy that how? c) You're a dumb whore why am I here? d) Seriously, though, Fuck Rocky
ReplyDeleteI got to go to a Phillie's game though...so that was something. Only 14 more stadiums to go until I get to move on to touring hockey arenas lol
Triple H wasn't exactly a hot heel when he turned on DX in 1999. It seemed like one of those situations where they decided or promised it was going to happen so they were going to make it happen, but he wasn't overly, um, over, when he turned. Most people's attitude was "He's not doing the suck it thing anymore? Oh well, fuck him, what's The Rock doing?".
ReplyDeleteThe Foley feud made him. Having him beat Vince, steal his daughter and run the company started it, but the Foley feud made him from an in-ring perspective.
Raw gets a boost from no MNF. HHH retirement = ratings
ReplyDeleteSo, we can all come to an agreement that he wasnt talking about HBK??
ReplyDeleteAnd if just "Hanging around for a nostalgic pop" is really THAT BAD, then I want the first 23 minutes of RAW 1000 back,
Absolutely agree with you on this thread, Chin. Again, I love Foley, we went to the same college (15 years apart, but still...) and I grew up a huge Foley mark. But everyone always defends Mrs. Foley's baby boy as this patron saint of the selfless pro wrestler, and it just isn't true.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest Mick Foley mark out there is Mick Foley. Read his books, listen to his interviews. No one else in the world has to put Mick Foley over, because he does it himself every chance he gets.
I have absolutely no problems with either path taken - Foley's or Triple H's. Trips dedicated his life to the business, comes out to wrestle every now and then, but for the most part is dedicated to learning the ropes of the business end. Isn't he developing NXT now? isn't that getting raves from everyone who's seen it? The man knows what he's doing and good for him.
Would I rather he skip the 20-minute main event interviews? Sure. But I'm OK with the epic encounters between him and Taker or him and Brock, because they're special attractions and the full-time guys are still getting their spots.
Nah, it's the entitlement. They genuinely seem shocked when one of their teams doesn't win. As though it's just ordained that every year at least ONE Boston team must be the champs. Look at the way they lost their shit when the Bruins got knocked out (and of course they did it in their customary racist fashion to boot)
ReplyDeleteOf course, that would probably happen to any city if in a ten year period you won like 8 titles in 4 different sports.
Can't wait to watch Felix pitch for them next July though! *killmenow*
It would be great if he was actually referencing someone totally silly like King Kong Bundy.
ReplyDeleteHunter's sitting there like "What the hell? Why is it no matter what I saw people ALWAYS assume I'm talking about Mick!"
They kinda are leaving, though. Ratings are relatively low and buy rates are down. The only reason anyone was buying the stock was due to the awesome dividend.
ReplyDeleteUnless you mean people on this blog. They're going to watch regardless and have a wide range of opinions, so I'm still not sure what you're getting at.
Because he's the world's most insecure wrestler.
ReplyDeleteJersey, Boston, and New York accents.
ReplyDelete"Haaay let's gaaaooooooo to the staaaoooore and yet some paaaaps!"
ReplyDeleteNo one but insanely stereotypical South Philly guidos talk like that.
Exactly, how many wrestlers have actually gotten to guest star on 30 Rock?
ReplyDeleteBy my count... just Foley.
I was about to say, "Look what the Fuj started," when I saw Scott's response. Sure, I tried to ride the coattails a bit, and have a few THIS BUSINESS and THIS INDUSTRY arguments with Fuj in this very blog, but this is bigger than any of us now. Well, besides the Cerebral Assassin, The King of Kings, The Game Triple H Hunter Hearst Helmsley Paul Levesque, that is.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Foley is that much of a mark for himself. He never puts himself at the level of Rock and Austin even though he was right underneath them for a couple periods of time in the Attitude Era. He is very self-deprecating and hardly considers himself a "legend" unless you put the word hardcore in front of it. His books come off as a little self-important but they're HIS books.
Am I the only one that enjoys their Survivor Series 96 match even more?
ReplyDeleteRemember when they teased that Triple H was Vince's illegitimate son, before pulling Hornswaggle out from under the ring.
ReplyDeleteCan you even say he made one star? Batista left just like Brock, Lashley, and others did.
ReplyDeleteHe is very self-deprecating but reading his books,(after have a nice day) he comes off the complete opposite.
ReplyDeleteI understand that wrestling is a very "Me" driven business though.
Midwestern...or maybe Baltimore.
ReplyDeleteYeah, plenty of wrestler can't just quit. Foley thinking it's about him seems to speak of his own insecurities rather than Triple H's.
ReplyDeleteLook, I love Foley like I can love any mildly brain damaged man, he's one of my favorite promo guys of all time, but he's got this "poor-me" attitude that's just obnoxious. Triple H may be many things, but I will always side with the arrogant sonofabitch who owns all of his actions over the guy who tries to paint himself as a victim.
99 percent sure the not wanting Foley on TV thing was a work.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash? Booking? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteI don't remember Foley ever vetoing putting someone over because, "he doesn't know how to work."
ReplyDeleteHis ego's up there with Hunter's my ass.
And you KNOW that eats up HHH inside.
ReplyDeleteBatista was there for over 5 years after HHH put him over at WM 21, so I think you have to give him credit for him... Brock and Lashley were only around a couple of years.
ReplyDeleteFive years?
ReplyDeleteBatista was injured for half of that.
Is it also annoying that we managed to dump $260 million on that fucktard Colletti? Because if I weren't a Sox fan, that would be the kicker for me. Everything else we've done is at least possible, given the money and ingenuity. But dumping $260 million in bad contracts AND getting a couple good prospects back? Instead of of being hamstrung by them, suffering the consequences, and wading into mediocrity for the next 5 years? Totally unprecedented in the history of the game, and you'll never see anything like it again. Only a perfect storm of money and utter fucking stupidity on the Dodgers part made it possible. See you all in 2014, mwahahaha!
ReplyDeleteAs an aside:
ReplyDeleteI'm glad someone liked the Jericho/Punk match from Mania! I personally thought it was very good, especially on TV... Jericho trying to get DQ'ed to get the title didn't come over very well live, but I was cracking up watching the BluRay when he was saying "HIT ME IN THE HEAD!" to Punk while he was holding the chair! Near-falls and near-submissions in the last few minutes were great too, right up to Punk switching his positioning in the Vice to avoid Jericho's knees while he was trying to break it, then he had to tap. For the card: I would say ****1/2 for HHH/Taker (the superkick-into-Pedigree spot was just beautifully done), ****1/4 for Punk/Jericho and **** for Rock/Cena. The rest of the show was ** or less, though.
Exactly, and it always bugs me when he pulls out that "I made myself" and "no big star ever laid down for me" shit.
ReplyDeleteVince shoved him down everyone's throats from day one, basically because he was friends with Shawn, Nash, and Hall. So to see him not give someone like Foley any respect for basically making him just shows Hunter's insecurity. The fact that the guy that his actual idol (Flair) refers to as a "glorified stuntman" made him what he is must eat him up inside.
Meanwhile, you have Austin crediting Bret for helping him, Rock crediting Foley, Austin, and Bret for helping him, and even the IWC's other villain in JBL giving credit for his main event push to Eddie Guerrero (you know, the vanilla midget that Nash says is responsible for killing the business), and you really just wonder when Foley shit in Triple H's Cheerios.
Thank You for dumping that load on the Dodgers.
ReplyDelete-Signed, A Giants fan.
Malcolm Gladwell? I love the Blog, but Gladwell's way too highbrow for the discourse here. Particularly for the HHH marks. I do appreciate your effort though, and would love to visit a wrestling blog where referencing the likes of Gladwell wasn't an outlier (pun intended).
ReplyDeleteThat was my plan was to visit every Stadium as well in MLB. I'm obviously starting with AT&T Park, so since you've got 14 to go, which has been your favorite so far?
ReplyDeleteIf reports at the time were accurate, I believe HHH had re-signed sometime in 1998 and it was promised that he would be getting a main event push in the near future. Then low and behold, a couple of months later it happened.
ReplyDeleteThey turned him heel. Put him in the top heel group. Had him beat X-Pac and pretty much kill DX. Had him beat up The Rock a bunch of times. Put him over The Rock. Had him cut shootish promos about being held back, made him The Game, gave him new music, cool entrance...had him marry Stephanie, beat up Vince, put him over Austin, win the title three times....and it really wasn't setting the world on fire. Then the Foley feud comes along, and bang, he's taking serious as a wrestler and over as a top heel. If he thinks he made himself a star despite nobody putting him over he's out of his mind. I don't know how he can possibly suggest nobody put him over. EVERYONE put him over.
Triple H just learned the art of ass kissing from Flair. Flair didn't think much of Foley so suddenly Triple H didn't either. And I'm pretty sure the "some people" who didn't like how Foley handled the Orton feud but didn't mind how he did things when it benefited them was Triple H. It's mostly just sucking up to Flair and him wanting to believe he became a star all by himself because he's just awesome like that.
Nah I think there's quite a few that prefer the SurSer match. It's kind of their "cult classic".
ReplyDeleteI think Chin is right though, it's easy to see Austin catching fire with that character but spinning his wheels in the midcard and becoming another "what coulda been" scenario like Pillman did or Bad News Brown before them.
I don't understand the negativity Foley is getting here because of his "ego". How is he different from any other top star who was a world champ or at that level? They're ALL marks for themselves! I can't think of one retired star who isn't. Maybe The Rock but that's more because he's so successful he doesn't have to go around saying "back in my day..." during interviews.
ReplyDelete"I never wanted to be the guy who held on too long for the nostaglia pop...i never wanted to be the guy too beat up and crippled to hold his own kids." --HHH on Raw. I posed the question to Scott earlier because many people felt the king of kings was taking a shot at Foley. Even Foley thought so; so it's not very far-fetched. Even in Beyond the Mat, Foley's wife comments on Mick playing with his children is tough to watch. HHH is not an idiot--he knew exactly what he was saying. I was more upset that Foley backed down on his feelings from last night.
ReplyDeleteBatista was already a pretty old guy (35-36) when he got his big push and he got out in his early 40's with his health and sanity seemingly intact, so good for him. Batista had five years as a top draw in the company, second only to Cena, and could've been potentially as big were it not for those two prolonged injury absences.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm not mistaken, Batista is the only guy who HHH never got a win back from. Big Dave won at WM21, won again at Backlash the next month and then won HITC.
Personal reasons? SafeCo still OWNS YOUR FUCKING FACE
ReplyDeleteOutside of personal reasons: 1) AT&T in downtown Frisco is an incredible experience, home runs get smashed out into The Bay, that shit is epic and the whole place is ALL BRICK but also pretty damn new. A delicious rarity as far as stadiums go, it's all new architecture mixed perfectly with old school materials and it's surrounded by a wonderful bar crawl 2) Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, for two reasons: they still have old school box seats/ice cream served in plastic ball helmets AND all the music is played by an 80 year old woman on an ACTUAL organ...fucking magical
This is keeping in mind that I haven't seen mostly everything on the real east coast, meaning Florida to Fenway.
Next summer, I hope. I can't wait to check out that big old strip mall with a Yankee logo on it.
No, I know he went on Twitter and apparently burnt all his special IWC love...but if he was banned from getting involved, Nash could book some wonderful shit.
ReplyDeleteFull disclosure: I hate my mother-in-law so yeah...I probably represent her as only the worst of the worst...who doesn't? lol
ReplyDeleteOkay. So let's say that was a "shot" at Foley.
ReplyDeleteIs he wrong?
I mean, Foley is fucked up because he quit a long after he should have. Foley was always a proponent of using personal feelings and emotions into promos and angles. How the fuck can Foley criticize the method he uses?
And if the problem people have with it is because Triple H "disrespected" Foley...uh, how many people here have said/thought something similar to "Foley fucked himself up" is Triple H not allowed to say that because he's in the same company with the guy? Since when does being a co-worker prevent you from making a veiled reference to a commonly held belief in a speech that only a small percentage of fans would "get". If he wanted to bury Foley, there's things he could say and get away with that are a lot more damaging.
Austin actually seems pretty humble...
ReplyDeleteYou do? That's pretty impressive.
ReplyDeleteMaybe. But if you ask him about when they told him to job to Brock, he (rightfully so) angrily pointed out how he's a top star who shouldn't job on a throwaway RAW with no build-up.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with a legendary/former wrestler being a mark for himself. If they didn't, they probably would never have became world champs.
So the only measure on which you judge ego by wrestling matches.
ReplyDeleteSeriously dude, it's Triple H's job to judge what guys are "good workers" or not, and if you deserve a push or not.
Has Mick Foley said he's ever cut a shitty promo? I know he's criticized his own workrate, but promos? According to him, they're all gold. Don't think there's any ego there?
And there went any hope of actual discussion...
ReplyDeleteI mean now. Ten years ago he was a total nut-case.
ReplyDeleteWell, meaning from April 2005 (WM 21) to May or June 2010, forgot the exact month. Not counting the injuries since he would've been there if he were healthy.
ReplyDeleteNo, I said YOU do... not me! Eh, you know what I mean.
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