Hey, Scott
I generally abhor armchair booking, BUT I have been entertaining this idea, because I am kinda wondering if they may actually do this.
Punk vs. Ryback at HIAC. Match is going...whatever. Ryback looks as if he is going in for the kill. Suddenly, Lesnar comes out from under the ring. Maybe a stare down, a collision, destruction. Lesnar costs Ryback the title. Punk retains, and keeps it until Rock. The natural stable between Heyman clients is formed. Heyman one ups Vince. Ryback has a monster to try and hunt down in a big time feud that can be stretched out for a month or two maybe.
I generally abhor armchair booking, BUT I have been entertaining this idea, because I am kinda wondering if they may actually do this.
Punk vs. Ryback at HIAC. Match is going...whatever. Ryback looks as if he is going in for the kill. Suddenly, Lesnar comes out from under the ring. Maybe a stare down, a collision, destruction. Lesnar costs Ryback the title. Punk retains, and keeps it until Rock. The natural stable between Heyman clients is formed. Heyman one ups Vince. Ryback has a monster to try and hunt down in a big time feud that can be stretched out for a month or two maybe.
I dunno...am I really, really wrong, or is this not a bad idea? I am a little murky on what they would do with Ryback after he would be done with Lesnar though. Seems unlikely that he would be dominated by OR dominate Lesnar. I suppose a returning HHH can cost Lesnar a win over Ryback in a couple of months to set the table for Trips/Lesnar II at Mania, but that seems...not right. And of course, I haven't really taken into account the whole limited number of Lesnar appearances thing, because I really don't know how many he has left. Anyway, do I have ANYTHING here?
I think that scenario leading up to Punk/Lesnar v. Ryback/Cena at Survivor Series is absolutely not the worst idea in the world. I also think that using Lesnar to make Ryback is not the worst idea in the world, because at least that's using Lesnar to put over a NEW star. However, I once again would like to stress that we haven't seen Ryback in a match that has run longer than about 2 minutes yet, and if he goes out there and completely craps the bed against Punk on PPV the push could end the night after. So it's dangerous to lock yourself into that kind of longer-term booking with an unknown quantity like Ryback. Honestly, this would be the time where I'd want to (say it with me) let it play out and see where it goes first. If Ryback can have a good match and carries himself well, then roll the dice with him. If not, there's no sense in wasting Brock's appearances on trying to get something out of him. This show is going to TANK without Cena anyway so there's no point in panicking about it any further. But I'm sure they will.
I really have no interest in seeing Ryback trying to work a normal 15-20 minute match with Punk or anyone else for that matter. Every Ryback match should be him no selling everything and destroying people in under 10 minutes. The minute he tries to work a rest hold, the mystique will be gone.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is they're in a corner where they can't really wait and see. He's wrestling for the title in a match that can only end in pinfall or submission. Your choices are booking him to win the title (which is clearly not "wait and see"), have him lose due to interference from a top guy (Which means you're probably booking him in a big SS match and not waiting to see), or have Punk beat him mostly clean, which would be waiting and seeing except you just completely killed off his aura of invincibility.
ReplyDeleteCan't they just have Ryback lie down for Punk "Fingerpoke" style? I mean, you KNOW Cena's going to be a cunt and castrate Ryback's push as soon as humanly possible, so why the fuck not have it happen sooner, especially since this means allowing Cena to beat/send Ryback hurdling back down the card now and not later at Survivor Series, with a match between the two that basically has Cena spending week after week leading up to Survivor Series mocking Ryback and claiming he was a fraud for laying down for Punk and making Cena give up a chance to get his belt back for nothing?
ReplyDeleteNot to mention, with the wholesale burial of Punk being done for Punk's sin of being popular while everyone hates Cena, having him bribe Ryback to lay down would make him look even more like a chickenshit heel unworthy to lick Cena's boots. Not to mention giving Cena more ammo to bury Punk with, by allowing Cena to evoke the original Fingerpoke and say Punk is no better than Kevin Nash.
But yeah, no fucking way Cena will be allowing Ryback that. He's already shown himself to be an asshole for burying Punk and cutting off Zack Ryder's balls like he did; no way Ryback gets this shot unless it's for Cena to kneecap him so he can crow about how no one else can be pushed on his same level while not wanting to acknowledge his role in fucking up every would be top level face that could have been a threat in replacing him.....
I said it before. Montreal screw job
ReplyDeleteWell that's thing, though. Even Goldberg was able to work a passable 10 minute match by the time he got to be World champion in WCW. It's fine to keep Ryback in the midcard squashing geeks if that's all they've got planned for him, but I for one have zero interest in seeing a series of 2 minute squashes as PPV main events.
ReplyDeleteAnd once Ryback has his balls cut off, mark my words Team Hell No will be next. They will have Cena and Sheamus beat up Team Hell No and mock them with their bully boy bullshit and that Kane will blame Bryan for letting Cena and Sheamus beat them (in a non-title match, since they don't care about the Titles, just destroying Team Hell No for the evilulz) and break up and Bryan will join Zack Ryder in jobber hell while Kane feuds with Cena for the upteenth time.....
ReplyDeleteok its another pointless Vince turn, but ryback hasn't really lost and they can build to s.series without wasting lesnar
ReplyDeleteBAKED!
ReplyDeletelol... i didnt even read it, i saw Baked.
ReplyDeleteYeah, put me on the side of hoping they do Lesnarference and build to Ryback going over Lesnar at Mania. They ALWAYS wait and see and that's why nobody new ever hots the Cena-level. What's more damaging to WWE: giving Ryback a big push and then he fails, or continuing to make no new stars? The way I see it, Lesnar at Mania HAS to be used to make a new star, not to be fed to Taker or HHH.
ReplyDeleteIn another thread I posted my current dream scenario, in which the above occurs, Bryan wins the Rumble, leading to Cena freaking out and costing Rock the RR match against Punk, leading to a Mania of:
- Bryan over Punk for the WWE Title
- Sheamus over Taker in WHC vs Streak
- Ryback over Lesnar
- Cena over Rock in some kind of street fight (Cena turns heel)
And while we're at it, put Cesaro over Orton, have Ziggler go over Jericho, and do a big 3-team TLC match involving Rhodes Scholars, Rey/Cara, and say ADR/Wade.
Booking that creates some new stars, and sets up the following year.
i said it before. terrible.
ReplyDeleteOnce he looks like a normal wrestler out there, I think the crowd reactions are going to die down. He destroys everyone and the crowd loves him for it. It's the same reason everyone loved Tyson.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I am thinking this needs to be basically UT/Shawn HIAC all over again to be successful. Ryback destroys him, Punk tries everything he can do to run, someone comes in and screws over Ryback in some manner to create a big feud.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Ryback is popular is WHY Cena is going to destroy him.
ReplyDeleteThe asshat KNOWS that his popularity is deader than a maggot infested corpse in a zombie movie, hence him crushing anyone more popular than him. So expect Ryback to not only LOSE in some humiliating fashion, but for Cena to take his gardening sheers and cut off his balls afterwords by claiming he is a failure and for Ryback to turn heel (and promptly get his butt kicked by Cena at SS) so Cena can be "right" about Ryback being a flash in the pan who did not deserve Cena giving up his title shot.
Ryback's going to not get a big time Wrestlemania match; fuck, he'll be lucky if he gets to be in the "get the jobbers on the PPV" multi-man match. And no fucking way will he get Brock Lesner, given that you KNOW HHH is going to demand THAT match so he can upstage everyone else (more than likely by making it another Hell in the Cell match).
Assuming Ryback even gets to squash people. Cena will probably beat him in two minutes at SS just to hammer home the fact that "how dare we cheer Ryback over Cena" burying him, as far as Cena following the HHH handbook of burying ANYONE who is a threat to him
ReplyDeleteSerious question: What is the best example of Punk carrying someone through a WWE match? Does he have any broomstick chops?
ReplyDeleteEhhhh, my post got Baked. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteNot exactly complete broomsticks, but Punk had really good Raw matches against Henry (btwn Mania and Extreme Rules) and Show (over summer), and he and Bryan had tons of good stuff involving Kane in all those 3-way and tag matches over the summer.
ReplyDeleteI think that there are just less "broomsticks" nowadays than in Flair's heyday. We complain a lot about the bodybuilder pushes, but that's actually way less prevalent than it was in the 80s and 90s. Sure Ryback is getting a main event, but look at all the Ezekiel Jacksons and Mason Ryans and Jackson Andrews who never got past some midcard matches before being scrapped.
Fell honored, Few get truly baked.
ReplyDeleteTrue. Well...I got baked, y'all! Suck it!
ReplyDeleteThe Lesnar interference is a good thought but there's not a chance he's going to appear at this show without being advertised for it. Vince would be losing way too much $ with fans that would only buy HIAC knowing Brock would be involved in some way.
ReplyDeleteNow pass that blunt over here!
ReplyDeleteWould he be losing a ton of money? I think it depends on how the deal is structured. Like, I assume it costs Vince a certain amount if the appearance is a match as opposed to when he appears on Raw, and does something like break HBK's arm or get knocked out of the ring by HHH.
ReplyDeleteSo if a HIAC interference is the equivalent of a Raw appearance, is that really throwing away money? The Lesnar Raw appearances generate no cash and pretty much provide nothing in the way of a ratings bump anyway, so the only benefit they provide is promoting future PPV matches. I think Brock interfering at HIAC provides way more promotional bang for the buck than most of the Raw appearances they've wasted him on.
Not saying I think they WILL do it, but I don't think one surprise Lesnar appearance in this run will really cost them anything. It's just one less time they could use him to stand next to Heyman on a Raw.
People will pay money to see Brock Lesnar. Not advertising a Brock appearance isn't the smartest idea in the world.
ReplyDeleteRight, but I'm equating this to a Raw appearance, not an advertised PPV match. If Lesnar interfering at HIAC is the same (in terms of fees, or using up a Lesnar date) as using Lesnar on a Raw, where is the money lost? Right, people will pay to see Lesnar wrestle an advertised match on PPV. But his Raw appearances generate zero dollars. Nobody is buying a ticket to see Lesnar on Raw. The ratings don't change much.
ReplyDeleteSo again, I'm not saying they should have Lesnar unadvertised wrestle a surprise match and burn through one of the few "match" dates they have left with him.
Of course this all depends on how the contract is structured. But for argument's sake, if their deal with Lesnar has TWO matches left and 10 "non-match" appearances remaining between now and Mania, and Lesnar interference at HIAC would count as a "non-match" appearance, where is the money lost?
I think Brock being merely advertised would be huge for them, especially since Cena isn't going to be wrestling. You're right about him not really making that much of a difference with RAW, but the buyrates would likely go up enough with him being advertised that could equate to legitimate money.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it really matters because Brock isn't going to be appearing anyway and a disappointing finish is looming.
They name dropped Brock last week. They went out of their way to get "The Next Big Thing" (wink wink) on TV this week. Next week they'll probably do something else to remind people of Brock.
ReplyDeleteThis is about as subtle as WWE foreshadowing gets.
It's going to happen, pretty much exactly as the emailer suggests. Not that there's anything wrong with the predictability as long as it makes sense and is going in a quality direction.
Here's how you advertise Brock without promising he'll be there, but enough to raise eyebrows. Three words:
ReplyDeleteSocial Media Ambassador.
Scott, 2012 Scott sez/Benoit/Montreal Screwjob are your only draws on this board.
ReplyDeleteRYback isn't a draw and Cena Heel turn is showing diminishing returns every time out.
You might have something with Jesse Baker, but you won't push him. Clearly you have something with Hollywood Fuj, who turned heel but nobody wants to vote down Fuj.
Does this sound familiar?
Henry was pretty solid at that point. As far as a broomstick test, Ryback is it. We haven't seen him have a good match yet. I'm not saying we can't or won't. I'm just saying not yet.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Orton, but people don't like it when I do that.
ReplyDeleteAs much as that sounds like a joke, that actually makes a lot of sense.
ReplyDeleteThe way to make Ryback look strong while still hiding his weaknesses is, and I never thought I'd say these words, but is to book it like an Orton match. Rather than have a long period where Punk is in control and Ryback has to attempt to keep up, the whole match should be structured with Punk trying to gain momentum and Ryback using sheer force to cut him off each time. Punk will bring the technical chops so it doesn't seem as though he's just being jobbed out, but rather that he keeps having his science cut off by Ryback's sheer force (JR on commentary should sell this heavily). Keep it short, and then to not make it feel underwhelming, you overbook the shit out of the finish. Have Lesnar interfere so the booking is basically the same as the first HIAC but make it more substantial: gimmick the cage so Lesnar literally tears a wall off and knocks Ryback out with it. (Ending the undefeated streak gives Ryback a revenge motive that he can use against Lesnar and Punk, or otherwise chicken out by doing a no-contest or ref stoppage deal, either way works). It'll seem silly but it creates something without negating anything.
ReplyDeleteOrton should be a super duper star, he's got a good look, he's athletic, he has an expansive moveset, but my god is he boring as shit. He reminds me a lot of Davey Richards, replacing Davey's no-selling with Orton's lack of charisma.
ReplyDeleteSimple, have Paul Heyman announce that Brock Lesnar is going to tell the world his plans for the future. Brock comes out, says he's done, and leaves.
ReplyDeleteThen, he comes out from under the ring and murderizes Ryback. Following that up with picking Punk up and carrying him away. Punk is one of the few guys on the roster that works really well with big guy bodyguards (Mason Ryan and Gallows were at their overest with Punk).
Goldberg v. Brock part 2?
ReplyDeleteHow so?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter if Brock doesn't wrestle. It still counts against his ppv dates. I believe he has 4 left.
ReplyDeleteThey would be well-advised to get Ryback's first loss out of the way now or else they'll find themselves in a no-win Goldberg-like situation down the line. They just have to make it obvious that he was massively cheated out of victory in the Cell, and everyone comes out smelling like a rose.
ReplyDeleteIf they're having a match at Mania, I wonder if thoughts of Brock's last match with a big stiff power wrestler are running through his head. I wonder if his professional pride is rankling at that match, if he's planning on doing something different to make it work.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe he doesn't give a shit.
Lesnar/Ryback at Wrestlemania 29 is something I've been entertaining for awhile. If Brock did put over any new star, then Ryback seems like the best choice, since they are clearly gonna push him until he gets over, now that Vince has it in his head that he can be a main event star. If Brock, doesn't come back before then, they can have Lesnar enter the Rumble or something and throw a shitload of people out and then when he's waiting for his next victim, Ryback's music hits and he comes in and eventually manages to throw Lesnar out. Lesnar, for revenge, comes back later and gives Ryback an F-5, which allows someone else the opportunity to throw him out (similar to RR 2004 with Goldberg.) This creates a feud between them, ending with Ryback beating Lesnar at WM29.
ReplyDeleteIt would be funny if Brock's Mania match is against the 'new Goldberg' given how disastrously his last Mania match against the actual Goldberg went. I'd still say Sheamus/Brock is the way to go since then you're not risking a guy in the match who potentially can't work a longer match, and you're still putting over a future star. Also, Sheamus/Brock would be STIFF as HELL and a really fun match.
ReplyDelete