---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "chris phelan"
Hey Scott,
Unsure if this will spawn good discussion or not (can't see how it will), but my curiosity is getting the best of me. Assuming they're going out there and doing a 20-25 minute cell match, if you're CM Punk, are you panicking right now? You're basically going to have to carry a rookie in the main event. My overall question, is CM Punk and Ryback constantly going through the match nonstop every free moment they get, perfecting it? Or is Ryback going to completely follow Punk's lead during the match. Do pro wrestlers really "rehearse" (not counting house show matches) for bigtime gimmick matches like this? I can't seem to picture these two in an empty arena with the cell lowered on the ring, practicing their match over and over... although maybe they should...
Thanks!
-----------
Yup they really do rehearse, sometimes extensively, and I've heard Punk is stoked to do a Ric Flair carry job like an old school heel champ.
I wouldn't be shocked if this match went over ***
ReplyDeleteAre we working WWE Main Event Style tonight?
ReplyDeleteI think it's gonna be a good match. Like **1/2 good. Perhaps better. But people keep forgetting Ryback is not a rookie, he's been wrestling since 2004
ReplyDeleteIIRC isn't the most famous rehearsed endlessly before the show match Warrior/Hogan? That the match was choreographed and practice and rehearsed endlessly before the PPV?
ReplyDeleteAlso Savage/Steamboat, Savage/Warrior, and DDP/Goldberg.
ReplyDeleteI imagine that Savage and DDP worked on their matches longer than Axl Rose worked on Chinese Democracy.
No WWE Main Event Live Thread makes zanadude a sad panda.
ReplyDeleteIf Punk is a great worker, he should be able to get 3 stars out of anybody the crowd buys as a threat easily. HBK could.
ReplyDeleteI just came on here looking for one too. This is an outrage, I tells ya. An OUTRAGE.
ReplyDeleteWow. They've raised the bar even higher with that buildup. This feels like the biggest Intercontinental title match in years!
ReplyDeleteEveryone complaining about chickenshit heel booking should be watching WWE Main Event. Miz is anything but a chickenshit here. Both guys look badass.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on both of your last points. They're really making this out to be a big deal. Looks like it'll take up a good part of the show. And it's been a fun match so far.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Punk and Ryback already work a few house shows?
ReplyDeleteI don't recall hearing that it was rehearsed (both guys would haw been working pretty solid schedules on the house show tour) but it was very carefully worked out ahead of time with Hulk and Sarrior and Pat Patterson. I love Punk but it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to bring Patterson out of retirement for them to bounce ideas off of.
ReplyDeleteMan, that was great stuff. Both guys really put over the importance of wanting the belt and went all out. Really enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteScott dropped the ball here, brother. Even taped, that still felt like a Wrestlemania Moment©.
ReplyDeleteI believe so. I live in PA, about 10 minutes from Trenton, NJ, and they're advertising a match between the two of them for a house show there Friday night.
ReplyDeleteLike a fine five course meal, the match itself is the denouement, not the end. Great reactions from both Kofi and The Miz, letting us savor the special event we've witnessed.
ReplyDeleteThe traditional post-coital cigarette match was the best one yet. And we top it off by focusing on two of the rising stars in the WWE, and putting them on a collision course for next week. Unless they hotshot something on RAW, this will be our first chance to see if Ryback is the real deal...but there's no doubt that the production team will make him look like the real deal in the pre-match buildup.
Cole/JBL works much better than Cole/Miz. They should go with them every time JBL isn't off climbing a mountain somewhere.
WWE Main Event is flat out, in every way, the best show in wrestling today. No other show even deserves to be mentioned in the same breath.
And mad props to The Miz. He's worthy of becoming The Face of the WWE someday.
so could Bret.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see how they rehearse the Rumble. I know they have time to just freestyle, esp. when they need to kill time before a big entrant, but as far as walking through the required marks and the finish, that'd be interesting to see.
ReplyDeleteLol. No.
ReplyDeleteI've watched a lot of CM Punk matches from the early ROH days up until this year and I'm not convinced he's capable of dragging dead weight to a *** match. I hope he does, but he seems to depend upon a good worker to get his best matches.
ReplyDeleteMan, Bret even got a good match out of TOM MAGEE. And that was before Bret really hit any kind of a big stride.
ReplyDeleteLol. Yes.
ReplyDeleteAnd now a snide comment, right?
Lol. Maybe.
ReplyDeleteShawn got better matches out of Sid, Diesel and Undertaker.
ReplyDeleteI partially agree. Putting him in with a guy like Miz is just asking to be bored, especially if Punk has to be the face. But I think he can have good matches against less active power guys. He got some decent stuff out of Big Show even when Show was at his least motivated.
ReplyDeleteAs long as Ryback has a decent enough moveset they can make some magic happen. Plus they're in the Cell meaning they can use every possible shortcut necessary to cover for a small moveset.
Ryback is facing Ziggler on next week's Main Event, so there's their chance to stretch his match time out for once to give a little preview to the fans, without it being on RAW under scrutiny on a show already being scrutinized due to being too long.
ReplyDeleteI love Punk's attitude here (granted I'm a huge Punk nerd and think the documentary portion of his dvd is the best WWE has ever made). You can tell how much being the champion means to him, and the guy seems to really relish the challenge.
ReplyDeleteAnd Ryback has brought a lot of intensity to his persona and performances lately. He looks like he's having a blast. And this is clearly the biggest opportunity of his career. I see him following Punk's lead and putting a ton of effort into making the most of it. With the cell to hide his limitations, Heyman at ringside bringing the drama and comedy (at the same time - gotta love him) and some bells and whistles, I think this can be a really fun main event.
And maybe I'm just stoked it's something new.
It's been said both Savage and DDP were very meticulous about working each match out beforehand, which is why both had many good to great matches, especially with each other. If you've seen the Rivalries dvd with Shawn and Bret, they talk about how they scripted the whole match ahead of time, and had people amazed that they carried it out almost to the second in the ring.
ReplyDeleteThey'll try different parts of the match at the house shows over the next week and a half, then they'll add in the wrinkles for the Cell and the finish. I'm sure it will be a fine match, as Punk knows what he is doing.
ReplyDeleteThat's true although not even Shawn could get a good match out of Muhammed Hassan, that 2005 match Shawn had with Hassan might have been the worst Shawn Michaels match I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteYou've obviously never seen the Shawn Michaels vs Marty Janetty cage match then...
ReplyDeleteI have that match on DVD actually and that match at least has Gorilla Monsoon and Johnny Polo's excellent commentary to make it tolerable, compare that to JR and King sounding like they swallowed an entire bottle of Quaaludes during the HBK-Hassan borefest.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. Fantastic match and one that definitely should have been saved for PPV.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm looking forward to the Ryback/Ziggler match next week. It could either a great, fun match or a glorious trainwreck, we shall see.
If Hart had had a match with Hassan in 2005, I feel it would've been worse.
ReplyDeleteBret, Shawn, Flair, Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, HHH, and plenty of others all
ReplyDeletehad the ability to get a great match out of almost anyone including dead
weight stiffs. And if Punk is as good as he says he is he's gotta do the same. I don't think he's been tested in this department so it's very interesting. I don't think Ryback is bad or anything, but i do think he'll need to be carried. I don't think he's clueless, but he's never done anything like this. This is gonna be a really interesting match from a workrate perspective.
debatable on Diesel, I think the no holds barred match with Bret is better than the no holds barred match with Shawn. Bret got a great match out of Isaac Yankem at Summer Slam 95, that's something.
ReplyDeleteHart had some ugly matches with guys who were a hell of a lot better than Hassan (Bryan Clark, Rick Martel and Sting to name a few), so yeah a horrible Muhammed Hassan versus an unmotivated Bret Hart would have been in negative-star territory whereas I have HBK-Hassan rated as DUD, just barely under negative-star range.
ReplyDeleteYes because he had a stroke and a severe concussion by then. Oh you mean a healthy bret? If he was motivated, then not, it would have been better.
ReplyDeleteHBK was a bump machine, Bret was a storyteller.
ReplyDeleteHBK matches are generally gonna be better by proxy.
Ryback is definitely untested in terms of being able to go at the main event level time wise. Can he go 15-20 mins which is the norm for main events? Honestly, I think maybe going Sheamus vs. Show in the Cell, and Punk vs. Ryback normal would have been smarter. They could have done a 10-12 min match where Ryback tosses Punk pillar to post and has him dead to rights, but Punk manages to weasel out. I don't mind screwjob finishes as much as most people and in this case I think it would make lots of sense.
ReplyDeleteIt'll be a tremendous sight to see Ziggler bump for Ryback though.
ReplyDeletePunk and Mark Henry had a good series of matches on Raw earlier this year. 2 or 3 matches and I'd put them in the *** range.
ReplyDeleteHogan and Warrior did secret rehearsals in Memphis in an empty arena, so the story goes. I think they snuck them in with hoods or some goofy nonsense like that. But it definitely happened.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I recall from Lance Storm's site, guys are basically left to improvise, aside from the key spots of the match. Lance was told he was out at a certain time, and so he & the guys involved worked out what was going to happen.
ReplyDeleteI think that's why so many guys do the same old "Idiot Charge" by just hauling off and running at a guy against the ropes- they're not bright enough to come up with an alternative elimination. It's probably also why there's a lot of the "Lazy Lean" going around, where guys just lean on each other for minutes at a time. You need the quality, innovative workers to take up the time.
And this is why this main event is a good idea. It has definitely kept my interest just to see what happens. It may not move the needle in terms of buy rates but was HIAC ever going to?
ReplyDeleteI believe Punk is good enough and works hard enough to make this work.
Maybe Ryback didn't had a long match, but what about Skip Sheffield?
ReplyDeleteActually I meant because he was broken and done. But even if he had been healthy, it would've been worse. Because, as proven above, hbk got better matches out of everybody.
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying hbk is better philosophically.
ReplyDeletei can go with that. Im a fan of both, but ill lean towards HBK cuz he is the better performer. not worker.
ReplyDeleteThat makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteIMO
ReplyDeleteWorker= regal, benoit, malenko
performer= hbk, rock, hogan.
I like both workers and performers, but in hbks case, ill lean towards him cuz he was the best performer. IMO doesnt mean he was the best worker though.
Because he doesn't do suplexes?
ReplyDeleteYOU SHALL NOT TROLL!
ReplyDeleteYou make no sense!
ReplyDeleteIm sorry you dont understand how i differentiate the two (again my opinion) but its cool. Theres shit i dont understand. Leave it alone buddy. Have a bless day.
ReplyDeletecurt hennig would say hi. . .
ReplyDeleteYou're joking right? Hbk was still developing as a single and it was a midcard match. It's not even close to comparable.
ReplyDeleteI was a big fan of "Skip Sheffield", I thought his stuff on NXT was pretty impressive. He also had some really good mic-work during his heel run in "Nexus".
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big fan of the whole "Ryback" gimmick, in terms of the two-minute power squashes and mechanical promos, but I like the guy behind the character.
I'm interested, too, as I definitely don't think Punk is "the best in the world" when it comes to in-ring skills. Maybe the best all-around total package in terms of being able to combine good in-ring skills with great mic-work (as well as a unique look and gimmick), but I don't think he can carry guys the way Bret/Shawn/etc. could.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely looking forward to seeing just how good he is at that aspect.
Of course it would have been worse, Bret just recovered from a stroke at that point.
ReplyDeleteShawn had a mediocre match with Hennig.
ReplyDeleteArgument. Over.
I hope they at least use those Flair/Koloff matches as a blueprint.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that? Perfect vs hart was only a few months into Bret's single career, and it was a mid card match. . .
ReplyDeleteThat's why they're not comparable to the main events I mentioned.
ReplyDelete