Scott, thanks for answering one my questions a few weeks ago, so i got another one for you. In regards to my favorite and THE greatsest heel stable of all time The Four Horsemen: we all know the lineage of the group, from the good (the original group, Barry Windham, & Benoit/Malenko), the bad (Sid Vicious & Mongo), to the ugly ( Sting & Paul F'N Roma). My question is you would have liked to seen as a part of the group. For me I always thought Matt Borne would've worked as an Ole replacement, Terry Taylor when they couldn't get Tully back and Ted Dibiase for wahtever period. You also could've thrown in an early Pillman & Austin into the group, Then split them off into the Hollywood Blondes toward greatness. Who do you think would've made great Horsemen??
Well if "better than Paul Roma" is your baseline you're opening it up to pretty much everyone in WCW.
Flair/Anderson/Austin/Pillman would have been an interesting crew in 93, although I don't know if people would have bought it. I think Greg Valentine was always a natural fit, as was Terry Taylor like you noted. I think Bobby Eaton would have been totally fine as a replacement for Tully, since he had history as Arn's partner and all. Rick Rude seems like the perfect guy as the Luger/Windham/Sid "fourth member" slot, which is probably why the Dangerous Alliance worked so well. In fact if they had done Flair/Andersons/Rude at Slamboree 93 and then split off the Rude/Flair feud from there they could have done well with it. Certainly Rude would have been considered acceptable to replace Tully.
A jumping Shane Douglas in 95-96
ReplyDeleteBenoit
Regal
A staying Brian Pillman
Flair, Anderson, Windham, and Scott Steiner in the "Threat to Flair's title so we'll give him a spot" role.
ReplyDeleteLove it. I feel like the whole 'old, traditional Horsemen' vs. 'young hotshots' feud between Flair/AA vs. Blondes could have led to a mutual respect after a couple months of awesome matches. The Blondes learn to respect the elder Horsemen, while Flair & Arn see future Horsemen in Pillman & Austin. What a great bunch of promos that would have been. Sting and company could have had great matches with all those guys.
ReplyDeleteWow, what an awesome group. Good call, friend.
ReplyDeleteAnd then eventually The Blondes turn on Anderson/Flair because they realize that they were using them to keep themselves on top.
ReplyDeleteIf we're including later version of the Horsemen, I think Perry Saturn made sense for Mongo's place when they regrouped in '98. They should have rolled Mongo and introduced Saturn as the newest member. Saturn & Malenko could be the tag team representatives while Benoit is a US Title-level guy in '99 and onward.
ReplyDeleteFlair, Perfect, Ramon, and Shawn Michaels. It actually would have made sense for HBK to join in 92 because the reason he split from Marty is a match he had with Flair in Dec. 91.
ReplyDeleteFlair as the leader, Perfect managing everyone and part time wrestler and Ramon/HBK as the tag team.
Shane Douglas as a Horsemen? Just doesn't seem right. Even by 95-96, wasn't Douglas already cutting anti-Flair promos?
ReplyDeleteBeing a Horsemen isn't just about being a great wrestler, it's also being about that lifestyle. I don't see Perry Saturn wearing a suit.
ReplyDeletehe was cutting anti flair promos in 93-94 but in my fantasy booking, he comes to usurp Flair and Anderson and create his own Horsemen with the PIllman and Benoit/Regal
ReplyDeleteAt what point was he teaming with Steamboat? That would've an easy turn right there. Flair pays Douglas off to beat the snot out of one of his longest standing rivals. Ricky would've made Shane look like a million bucks.
ReplyDeleteHow about a gown then?
ReplyDeleteThis is why I never thought Benoit was a good fit and Benoit/Malenko? No. Great workers, but not Horsemen.
ReplyDeleteI've always said Mongo was way better as a Horsemen than Malenko/Benoit. Jarrett too.
ReplyDeleteAlso, that's why I think an anti-Horsemen stable would have worked so well with Benoit, Regal, Malenko, and Guerrero. It's not just new gen vs old gen, it's about substance vs style.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been the anti-Horsemen clashing with Flair/Arn/Jarrett/Mongo over the fact that being a Horseman was about being great in the ring as well as great out of it. And Flair has lost sight of that.
That could have been an interesting spin on it actually. Saturn as this tatted up gargoyle trying to be polished and proper. Eventually he gets tired of it and comes out of his shell as the pre-CM Punk-style rugged anti-hero.
ReplyDeleteThat "Apocalypse" angle is one of the great unrealized stories.
ReplyDeleteSorry dude, I just don't see it. Saturn didn't have the charisma for it. Raven maybe.
ReplyDeleteYeah, a group of Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero, led by Pillman...drool.
ReplyDeleteShane back in 92/93 wasn't really known for his heel work, he was always the white meat babyface. Hindsight makes that angle much more obvious than it probably was.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Watching Shane back in those days, there's no way you would've thought he could become the snarky loud mouthed heel he went on to be in ECW. Even his moveset was as babyface as it got in those days.
ReplyDeletePretty cool but no way Hogan goes that long without the title, let alone Macho spoiling his big victory.
ReplyDeleteThat's why they call it fantasy booking. Although I think if anybody at WCW bothered to stand up to Hulk and explain why it might not be a good idea to win the title in his first match, he might have went for it. The problem wasn't his creative control, it was that nobody told him no.
ReplyDeletetoo much solo stars in there. I mean, would it really be the best decision to have Perfect and Michaels or Perfect and Ramon together in the "tag team" spot?
ReplyDeleteimo Douglas cutting anti-Flair promos... just to turn on a babyface and join Flair would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteRazor and Shawn weren't established single stars in 1992.
ReplyDeleteCan't argue with that.
ReplyDeletein Hulk's mind, and probably in reality, he was still the biggest wrestling star in the world in 1994. He walked into the WWF 10 years earlier and won the title in his first match and led that company to national prominence. I'm pretty sure he probably thought by repeating the past, he could do it again. I don't think anyone could've talked him out of carrying the belt right away and being the face of the company.
ReplyDeletePlus, Hulk was never one to chase the title. That concept is probably foreign to him.
ReplyDeleteWe'll never know but I think Hogan isn't dumb. If they would have taken the time to explain to him that winning the title at Starrcade would be a much bigger deal, he would have listened. But they were probably so star struck that they would've let him piss on Flair after the match if he wanted to.
ReplyDeleteIt's like telling someone they can have 1,000 dollars now or wait a few months and get 10 grand. No rational person says no.
I'm not saying Money Inc. would have been a bad idea. And that stable if it happens, goes right into a main event slot, not sure how that is downgrade from the Rockers.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say anything about a "downgrade," I'm making the point that it wouldn't make much sense to break Shawn off from the Rockers, and then throw him on to another team. They clearly (and correctly) felt like they had something with him as a singles wrestler, putting him in a WWF Horsemen would've been counter-productive to his singles growth.
ReplyDeleteI think you're getting hung up on the term "tag team". What is better for Shawn Michaels? Working opening match singles matches with Tito Santana or main event tags? He would have immediately been a big deal and upper midcard. And don't forget, being in a tag team with Diesel didn't stunt his growth, it rocketed him to the main event.
ReplyDeleteI see now why your post count is so high.
ReplyDeleteActually this scenario reminds me of one I had once and Scott's post reminded me of: a 4th man comes in like Rude who is charismatic enough that the Horsemen eventually *turn on Flair* and kick him out (sort of like the Rock and Farooq). Flair then gets crazy angry and gets to play out being the "dirtiest player in the game" on the three other people that know his tricks the best.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why people wouldn't have bought Flair, Arn and the Blondes since Arn and Austin were Dangerous Alliance stablemates and at one point Pillman was being pushed as Flair's protégé.
ReplyDeleteWould only work if Arn wasn't in the group. Nobody would buy or want to see him turn on Flair.
ReplyDeleteI don't necessarily like the idea of Rude and Flair together. They're too similar to work side-by-side, but perfect as like-minded foes. And imagine those innuendo-laden promos where they're trying to one-up the other guy!
ReplyDeleteIf they could've stretched the Dangerous Alliance story out to coincide with Flair's return, you could've had Arn turn on the Alliance to rejoin Flair. You sub in two new members for a face Horsemen to kick off a Horsemen/Alliance feud. Flair does the usual suckering of Sting in the build to a Wargames match: Sting & The Horsemen vs. The Alliance. Sting makes a member of the Alliance submit. Flair, miffed he couldn't make Rude submit, turns on Sting. The Horsemen lock Sting in the cage post-match and maul the guy while the Dangerous Alliance walks away, because why would they even care about helping the guy who just beat them?
It would've set off the new Horsemen as the top heels while ending the Dangerous Alliance arc. Rude doesn't have to lay down for Flair, so that feud can start up again later.
Ramon was too much of a sleazy thug, and Michaels didn't fit the image as he was more of a hair metal pretty boy than a member of the jet set.
ReplyDeleteFlair, Perfect, Martel, and Dibiase w/ Heenan in the JJ role. You can sacrifice the Money, Inc. tag team. They weren't that important. Martel had the internationally rich model thing. He always dressed and carried himself like a minor Flair.