Scott, Hope all is well. I needed to vent and would like yours and BoDs feedback on this. I'm so sick of hearing about a Cena heel turn. Yes, he sucks. Yes, he's boring. Yes, his poopy jokes and smirk/no selling is awful. However, he's still their top full time face draw, moved a shitload of merchandise, and does all the company stuff required from a top star.
Yea, a turn would draw money and open up endless feuds but who then becomes face 1? Ryback? Sheamus? Everyone stop comparing it to the Hogan turn, the reason that went over so well is because (a) it was 2 DECADES in the making (b) Hall and Nash were the hottest act in wrestling.
My question to you is...am I way off base on this? Do you think Vince ever pulls the trigger on this in say the next few years? Thanks
Didn't you get the memo that we're not allowed to talk about Cena heel turns, Montreal conspiracies or Invasion rebooking anymore?
Yea, a turn would draw money and open up endless feuds but who then becomes face 1? Ryback? Sheamus? Everyone stop comparing it to the Hogan turn, the reason that went over so well is because (a) it was 2 DECADES in the making (b) Hall and Nash were the hottest act in wrestling.
My question to you is...am I way off base on this? Do you think Vince ever pulls the trigger on this in say the next few years? Thanks
Didn't you get the memo that we're not allowed to talk about Cena heel turns, Montreal conspiracies or Invasion rebooking anymore?
Anyway, yes, it will undoubtedly happen and be awesome when it does, but as you noted, Cena is still drawing huge money as a babyface and there's no reason to replace him at this point. The discussion then becomes "Who the fuck IS going to replace him?" but given Cena is still relatively young and not quite broken down yet, there's probably another decade of poopy jokes left in him. Sorry.
Did you...completely miss the entire point of the Jericho feud?
ReplyDeleteHis father and mother were drug abusers (and yes, alcohol is a drug), Punk saw how it ruined their life and thus his childhood. CM Punk is capital W White Trash.
So he spent his entire life staying away from drugs because Willpower>Genetics. Jericho's promos were about the inevitability of alcoholism and how it doesn't matter how hard you fight, you're still going to end up as the same losers you parents were.
It's a powerful sentiment, and you don't have to have alcoholic parents to get the feud. It was very good, it's just that most people are in denial about their own alcohol use and Punk pisses them off.
Cena is a heel. Who gets more heel heat than Cena? Basically, the IWC wants Cena to turn heel so they can CHEER him. Does not computer.
ReplyDeleteThere is absolutely no reason for the WWE to do anything with Cena at the moment. Until Cena reaches "Hogan in 1995" levels of dreadfulness, they're not messing with the $$$$.
I disagree, the heel turn IS coming this Wrestlemania, it feels that way anywyay. Cena HAS to win that match, this losing streak of his over the last year of not getting the job done is tailor made for it and done intentionally I believe. Personally post Mania I see him and Punk doing the double switch as Punk can fill that baby-face void that Cena may temporary leave for a year or so. Ratings and buyrates outside the Rock and Brock showing up are so low now they need a massive turn around to stop that downward trend. They also desperately need to create 'that' next guy and the only way to create such is to elevate him via going over Cena in the long-term.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to cheer him. I just want everything to be aligned the way they should be. No top face should ever be getting "[insert name here] Sucks!" chants.
ReplyDeleteWhy? In Cena, they have a #1 face AND a #1 heel. It's gold and they know it.
ReplyDeleteAnd the people that hate Cena the most in the bad way (i.e., us nerds) are the ones least likely to stop watching wrestling.
WWE is a business and they're not messing with the Golden Goose because 30-year old wrestling addicts aren't happy with him.
Except they book him as the #1 Face only. And turn anyone else that could be JUST the #1 Face heel because it threatens Cena. Apparently there's already talk of turning Ryback heel.
ReplyDeleteIdc about the character, if that's what the kids want then so be it, just get him out of the main event picture, and not just via injury. Can you imagine the rub Cesaro would get if he had a 3-4 month feud with Cena for the US title?
ReplyDeleteI get the Cena/Hogan parallels but I don't understand the assumption from some people that if/when Cena turns heel, it'll set the business on fire like Hogan did with the nWo. Sure, Cena's a big star among wrestling fans, but he has never been the cultural icon that Hogan was and that was a huge reason why the Hogan heel turn was such a big deal. Folks who stopped watching all of a sudden were intrigued by a Hogan heel turn because at one time or another, they watched Hogan on top as a babyface. I don't know how many people who no longer watch would really care that Cena was a heel. How many folks grew up watching Cena as a babyface but no longer watch? Probably not many. I feel like the only people that'll really be intrigued by the Cena heel turn would be the people already watching. And will always be watching. As long as Cena is still drawing as a face, there's no reason to turn him heel.
ReplyDeleteCena would be so much more tolerable if he just had some weaknesses or vulnerabilities.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Bo Dallas is taking Cena's spot.
A person's alcohol consumption is not interesting. Whether you drink every day, twice a year, or never in your life, that's a personal choice, and not at all interesting to anyone other than yourself. The person who always wants to tell you about their teetotaling is no less of a boor than the frat boy telling you how many cans of Bud he funnels into himself every night.
ReplyDeleteVery, very lame reason for a feud, and they both came across poorly. And the overall tone that any alcohol consumption at all somehow equates to being a no good drunk, or even that it is a slippery slope for the extreme majority of the population, is rather obviously ridiculous.
For what it's worth (and the answer should be nothing, because alcohol consumption is not interesting), I drink alcohol really very rarely*. Punk (or you, or anyone) being a teetotaler bothers me not one bit, and makes me reflect on myself not one bit. In fact if that's the correct choice for you in your life, I thoroughly endorse it for you through my veil of extreme disinterest.
*I did spend my honeymoon boozing across Belgium and visiting the trappist monestaries though, that was incredible.
Yes. He didn't even MENTION the match he lost to the Shield on Raw last week. It's like it didn't happen. You're supposed to be sad/upset/annoyed/SOMETHING after losing! Not completely indifferent!
ReplyDeleteI was really digging the feud until all that alcoholism shit came up.
ReplyDeleteMy theory is that if they aren't wanting to turn him full blown nWo heel, then turn him heel for a few months, make him a cool heel that the guys cheer for again, THEN turn him back to a face. In theory everyone would cheer for him again.
ReplyDeleteMy additional comment is that it is damn hard to build strong heels when the top face of the promotion is hated by half the crowd or more on any given night. That is why Cena as he is now is a major problem, and that is why ratings and wrestling's perception of not being cool is where it is.
Guys, the Cena heel turn won't be awesome. Here's why: the turn itself will be great, as is the initial idea every time they do something interesting, but by the time he turns heel no one's going to care anymore. This company is the company that bleeds everything dry and then kicks the corpse a few more times to see if anything more will come out. They're going to hang on too long with Cena as top babyface so that by the time he has turned heel the general reaction is going to be, "Yeah, cool. But we've already been booing him for almost a decade. Why should we care now?" Or worse, the audience will be so small that the turn won't matter anyway. Their numbers consistently dwindle with each passing year.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't even touching on the fact that WWE Creative will be handling Cena's heel turn and subsequent push as top heel. Let that sink in.
The subject of alcoholism was not the reason for the feud. Jericho just brought it up to play mind games with him, and at one point he did get to him by bringing up his sister.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I showed some of Jericho's remarks about Punk's alcoholism to some casual fans who had not watched in ages. The primary response was amusement with an eagerness to actually watch them fight it out. "Oh shit! What an asshole!"
Yeah! Because I'm sure a NEWSPAPER didn't take something he said in jest out of context, because they NEVER do that. No, you see the MEDIA is just bang fucking on all the time, and it's Cena that's an asshole. You know, like when Cena was on CNN, which is TELEVISION, to talk about Chris Benoit's death. He came off like such a regular guy. What a fucking DICK he is!
ReplyDeleteThere's a big difference in 20 years of bubblegum Hogan to bubblegum Cena. Hogan wasn't on TV EVERY WEEK. In TV years, Cena is about 70 years old. I can't imagine 10 more years of his act. Every week. Sometimes two to three times a week. Not a chance.
ReplyDeleteTo my critic:
ReplyDeletehttp://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/oball/carusofyou.gif
I didn't get the appeal of John Cena. I liked him in 2003 or so, but I also liked wearing basketball jerseys and listening to Eminem at the time to. But his face character was obnoxious from the start. He comes off like the guy who thinks he's the coolest kid in class, while wearing jean shorts and t-shirts down to his knees. I just don't see what's "cool" about him.
ReplyDeleteBut at this point I'm indifferent. I hated him, I was hopeful something would change when he first started getting booed...but by now I just accept he's not going anywhere and have tuned out.
I don't know if Cena turning heel alone will be a big deal.....but if he turns heel it opens up the door for someone else to be the top guy, and that could be significant, depending on who it is.
ReplyDeleteExactly
ReplyDeleteI was gonna reply but you already summed itup better than I could have. Huzzah sir
ReplyDeleteI've been to WWE shows where I've noticed that the same people chanting "Cena sucks" also chanted "lets go Cena!". At this point, I think it's basically a mindless chant that people think they're expected to do. Not everyone who chants "Cena sucks" actually means it. Some even wear Cena t-shirts.
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm pretty sure PPV buyrates were up for most of 2012. And ratings are good and would be much better if RAW wasn't 3 hours. WWE is far from being on a big downward trend.
ReplyDelete"Legitimate media interviews". Really? A snippet from from rag that's distributed around a cesspool? Yeah, he really should have dropped kayfabe.
ReplyDeleteI hate Cena as much as the next guy, but give the guy a fucking break.
The reason why Cena is the face of the company is thanks to guys like Mysterio, Orton, RVD, Hardy, and Swagger.
ReplyDeleteWith Cena, Vince knows he has a guy he can trust on top. He doesnt have to worry about being woken up in the middle of the night over something Cena did to make the company look bad.
While it may not be the most popular thing, I can totally understand why Cena is kept on top.
Does anyone really remember the Jericho feud? When he won the title from Cena at MITB2011 the fans were all behind him and he got big pops. Does he need more? And I think it is much harder for him to get heel heat because the fans still like him.
ReplyDeleteDo a proper injury angle with ryback cena. Get cena off tv for 2 months, blow off at summerslam. hogan/earthquake style.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on "coolness". The look is terrible. The man's going to be 36 later this year, folks, let's at least tweak it a little bit.
ReplyDeleteCan Ryback do to Cena what he did to Brad Maddox? 'Cause that's what it would take, and more, to get Cena off TV.
ReplyDeleteRatings don't mean nearly what they used to and Cena, as Scott said, is still a gigantic moneymaker.
ReplyDeletePipe dreams are one thing, being straight-up wrong is another.
Hogan wasn't even on top for 20 years. If we start with his winning the belt off Sheik in '84 then he had a good 8 year run where he was the main focus of the WWF. He took time off and/or made sporadic appearances until '94 when he became the figurehead of WCW. He then at least had the sense to take off 3 months in '96 in the build to the nWo angle. From there we'll give him another 3 years, until late '99, when he disappeared again and didn't start making sporadic appearances for WCW until early '00. When he came to WWE after that it was always for short-term programs where he was a featured attraction but not the main guy (except for that one month with the belt).
ReplyDeleteSo Hogan had around 15 years as THE guy spread over a 20 year period ('84-'04). Cena's already at 8 years as THE guy if you're counting that weird period where Cena and Batista were both positioned as the face of the company to see what sticks, 7 years if not. At this point in Hogan's career he was starting to take time off. Cena's never taken more than a month unless it was for an injury, and even then it was never for more than 3 months.
So I agree with your general point but John's at a place where it's all diminishing returns until they find his replacement. He has a few genuine money matches left (Rock II, Brock rematch, Taker), but so did Hogan with Sting, Flair, and Vader. I think the problem is that they can't see the forest for the trees; they plan to build around those big one-off matches to pop a good buyrate, but they don't do anything of consequence in between. So RAW's ratings continually suck, because hi John Cena pins everything and laughs about it when he doesn't, but they get those short-term gains with the temporary increase over previous year's buyrates. The problem comes in when when get to Wrestlemania XXX. After that show, what's next? You've exhausted every combination of Rock, Brock, Cena, and Taker. So they need to get behind some people like right now, because they'll be where they were a year ago before they were able to convince Rock and Brock to take on part time schedules: no star power to carry the company.
It's not about alcohol.
ReplyDeleteIt's about Punk's beliefs and things we would or wouldn't do.
Alright...people are comic book fans here, right?
Batman will not kill? Right?
Joker wants to force Batman to kill somebody.
Same concept for the Jericho/Punk feud. Except it also added some elements of escaping your family that is honestly pretty simple stuff to grasp.
Yet again, this whole issue seems to stem from people being uncomfortable with discussing alcohol abuse in this country.