Thankfully that magician just showed the audience how he sawed his assistant in half, so I don't ever have to pay to see it again.
— CM Punk (@CMPunk) February 23, 2013
Thankfully that magician just showed the audience how he sawed his assistant in half, so I don't ever have to pay to see it again.
— CM Punk (@CMPunk) February 23, 2013
Punks being sarcastic right?
ReplyDeleteSaying that they're playing characters is hardly ripping back the curtain in 2013
Was Punk's promo on Vince, Triple H, and Stephanie back in 2011 a work or a shoot? Was his contract really up at the time? Did he resign to get a long world title deal? On his DVD, when he said he signed his contract in the middle of the show before the main event match against Cena, was that the truth?
ReplyDeleteI think the murky answers to all these questions so that Punk very much believes in keeping the audience guessing and that promo, good or bad, removes all of that.
It was a shoot, but one that worked in Kayfabe. In real sports preferential treatment for stars is common place (The Refs conveniently missing calls on Wayne Gretzky, Hometown decisions in Boxing) and Punk was claiming to be a victim of that. This Promo admits wrestling is fake, Punk never did that in any official capacity
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I didn't like the Promo, I found it to be stupid and almost Patronizing, we know it's fake--you don't have to tell us. I think Punk was half sarcastic half honest if you get what I mean
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ. You know, I was digging that promo, everything, getting into the characters (and I guess some of the points they made) then BAM, lets shit all over it.
ReplyDeleteOnce they started explaining was a promo was, I stopped watching. Did they play it right, or was it awful?
So corny. Just a bunch of Stephanie mandated buzzwords. Fuck off.
ReplyDeleteUgh...I'm dusting off EPIC FAIL for this one. Plus I love dutch saying "telling stories"
ReplyDeleteThey really aren't gonna dump swagger????
And 14 million fans...roflol. Try 4 million.
This is the worst thing I've ever seen that is wrestling related.
Agreed. Everybody knows it's fake. Nobody buys the show in 2013 without knowing how they "do the magic."
ReplyDeleteThat said, the video was unnecessary.
This whole Swagger angle has turned into a giant unnecessary mess. Why do they give two shits about dealing with Glenn Beck? You're a month out from your biggest show of the year and you're focusing on baiting a washed up host of an Internet news show to be part of your racism angle involving a jobber and his manager who's a jobber from 20 years ago?? And yelling "this is all fake!" For no reason? This is what WWE is wasting its time on? Ridiculous. This whole angle has become the biggest channel changer of all time.
ReplyDeleteIf they give time on Raw to that scumbag Beck to come on their TV show so he could A) Spread his fucked up rhetoric and B) Shit on their audience, well then it'll be confirmed that they're infinitely dumber than we ever have them credit for. What is their perceived benefit here? Fucking morons, the lot of them.
ReplyDeleteFeels to much like Vinces promo in December 1997
ReplyDeleteAwful. If they show this on Raw, they're just asking for people to stop watching.
ReplyDeleteIt will be a Glenn Beck Parody.
ReplyDeleteWWE has to do the most childish rebuttal so they look "cool"
It doesn't matter that we know its fake. There's no reason for the characters on the show to break mid show and tell us it's fake. Does that happen on other tv shows? Would you enjoy the Sopranos if mid episode Tony turned to the camera and said "Hey, my real name is James Gandolfini" and proceeded to call his agent? No, because it'd be ridiculous and insulting, and that's exactly what this is. If Steph wants to write a TV show, then she should finally spend a few of her daddy's dollars and pay to take a writing class. This isn't how TV shows work.
ReplyDeleteDid you not think their tone was "we can't believe we're having to explain this to you Glenn Beck, you're literally the last guy left who doesn't get how wrestling works"?
ReplyDeleteI thought the whole thing was done well. Kind of a wink to the camera acknowledging that it's kind of dumb to be explaining this, but its for the benefit of people too stupid to understand wrestling (I'm inferring a bit there I realise).
As a one off promo on WWE.com I'm fine with it. I can see why you think it unnecessary but I thought it was a fun way to respond to a moron like Glenn Beck.
As long as we're straying into some Brechtian breaking of the fourth wall on a regular basis its not going to ruin my enjoyment of the piece. Certainly next time Zeb and Swagger come out i'm not going to be less invested in them because of this. More so if anything.
This is the nail of the coffin of this angle for me. Here's hoping Swagger falls asleep in another meeting or forgets to shake Taker's hand or something that would REALLY get him fired so this thing can go away.
ReplyDeleteStephanie will be the death of wrestling. She's poised to become the sole owner of an industry she hates , and she's a total moron to boot. Things are gonna get real bad there someday.
ReplyDeleteBotchamania.
ReplyDeleteWhat I took away from this video: Why in the blue hell is Jack Swagger wearing capris?
ReplyDeleteYou sir, win.
ReplyDeleteWow, I could not disagree more. I'm an American political conservative, and I thought this video was brilliant.
ReplyDeleteFirst, they did another in their series of promos, showing how this isn't really about immigration, its about the world heavyweight championship, and its all a mind game.
Then, pulling the curtain back and stepping out of character, they show what every WWE fan knows, these are characters, and this is an angle. Using all of their real names was amazing.
Finally, they invite Beck to come on the air, which I doubt he will do. He's been defeated in the argument on his own terms. I think it is amazing, and so simple. My love for Dutch Mantel just went up even higher than before, and I'm really looking forward to the Wrestlemania match.
Isn't Punk basically guilty of the same thing? The thing that made him instantly famous the THE PROMO that he cut?
ReplyDeleteDutch got one thing right: Beck is stupid.
ReplyDeleteDid you know? Using Stephanie Mandated Buzzwords is the quickest away to put an arrest behind you and hold on for dear life to your Wrestlemania pay day.
ReplyDeleteI love Punk's tweets. He's always got an interesting way of putting things. He's going to write a hell of a biography someday.
ReplyDeleteSo much of the fun of wrestling is we know it's fake, the performers know it's fake, but we both agree to pretend it isn't.
Like a fox sadly. Still can't believe he's the same guy that made his name in CT doing morning zoo radio prank call crap when I was a kid.
ReplyDeletewhat every WWE fan knows, these are characters, and this is an angle
ReplyDeleteOne would hope... : |
He's trying to get in the good graces of mid-2003 HHH
ReplyDeleteNo, not really. Punk didn't really say anything in that promo that wasn't consistent with kayfabe if some little kid chose to take it that way. But there was enough there for us smart marks to love it. He pulled back the curtain, but not all the way. Just like the best all-ages entertainment does, where the kids and parents are laughing at it simultaneously for two very different reasons. It's when HHH got involved that the promos leaned too far towards shoot, and in turn lost a lot of their fence-straddling potency.
ReplyDeleteThis! Get this man some fucking likes.
ReplyDeleteI know Kayfabe is basically a thing of the past, but this is even further over the line than I thought they would ever go. I will be really disappointed if they play this on RAW... I think this will be shocking for adults and children and will expose the business more than anything they've done before now.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but you don't pull back the curtain during your show... no matter the show.
ReplyDeleteLol what the Hell was that outfit about really? Was he hiding something on his legs like Rock did with his boobs in 99?
ReplyDeleteStone Cold: "And I'ma whip Vince McMahon's ass, and that's the bottom line----"
ReplyDelete*Camera pans out, Austin loosens up*
Stone Cold: "Hello, Parents Television Council. My name is Steven James Williams, and I am playing a character on a television show. Your moral high-ground is unnecessary, because the World Wrestling Federation isn't intending to blaspheme or offend, but rather to entertain those who find edgier productions entertaining. Vince is my boss in real life as well, and is the man who signs my checks every week. We are not encouraging our fans to attack their boss physically, but rather providing a release to anyone who can sympathize with a heated working environment spurred on by an "evil" boss. I hope you consider that this "story" we're telling, among the dozens of others that have more adult tastes, are just stories, and should not be taken seriously."
*Camera pans in, Austin intensifies*
Stone Cold: "BECAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO"
I wouldent compare it with the punk promo. Being edgy and smarky is one thing, openly saying "this is fake" like wcw was doing in 2000 is another.
ReplyDeleteHHH has some fucking balls for protecting THIS BUSINESS, yet allowing this to take place. I know he isnt the be all end all on decisions, but cmon someone should have seen this was a bad idea
Definitely a surreal promo if nothing else. Still not a fan of outright admitting its fake on their own product.
ReplyDeleteNo, this more along the lines of Cena saying "Five moves of doom" and "playing my heel persona".
ReplyDeleteBut it wasn't right in the middle of the TV show, it was in a throwaway promo on WWE.com. If they break character like this on a regular basis and on RAW then thats different, thats canon. This to me seemed a harmlessly fun way to respond to Glenn Beck and issue him a challenge that they had to know had a 0% chance of being accepted.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone seriously suggesting that because of them breaking character in this bit they won't be able to invest themselves in the show next time these two cut a promo? I can't see how this as a one off stops anyone enjoying the product (assuming you were enjoying this character before. If you weren't then this isn't going to be what wins you over)
And please, The Soprano's had plenty of winks on nods throughout its run that pulled you out of the New Jersey mob world and made you realise you were watching a TV show (talking fish, Nancy & Frank Sinatra Jr cameos, robbing Lauren Bacall, dream sequences, the construction of the entire final scene etc etc).
You can suspend disbelief just fine as long as its not done too often.
People have to stop calling this a promo. Promos are supposed to help draw money. This does nothing except scream, "Look at us We are Smart!"
ReplyDeleteQuite possibly the worst thing the WWE has ever produced, in terms of breaking kayfabe. It's insulting to everyone. Who the heck do they think this type of junk appeals to? It's not wrestling fans. It's not non-wrestling fans. Who does that leave?
ReplyDeletehttp://stholeary.blogspot.com/2013/02/AwfulJackSwaggerVideo.html
I realize that this is a different time now, but in the Attitude era (and right before), outright breaking kayfabe in the middle of everything wasn't a novelty, so it's not like this promo in the gran scheme of things is revolutionary.
ReplyDelete- JR's interviews with Goldust and Mankind
- Chaz Warrington dropping the Beaver Cleavage gimmick in the middle of a vignette
- Dustin Runnels dropping and criticizing the Seven gimmick right after starting his promo
- Bash the Beach 2000
- Marc Mero explaining to the crowd who Salvatore Sincere really was
- people talking on-screen about how "Mark had taken his character too much to heart" during the Ministry to Darkness days
I posted this in the other thread about this topic, so I'll just throw it out here, too, since it's relevant in both places:
ReplyDeleteI think it all boils down to this: WWE producing the video has less to do with Vince feeling misunderstood, attacked, and discriminated against for his views and more to do with his undying need to be legitimatized in the eyes of the world outside of the people who already are accepting of what he does.
The reason that movie and television studios, etc. aren't constantly on the defensive for exploring "push button topics" is b/c they don't need to be: they're already accepted in society at large for creating stories that explore some of the things you don't tend to talk about at the water cooler. Vince's constant insistence to emphasize "we're telling stories" is indicative of his desperate need to get back at any and everyone who might have downplayed his life's work and/or cast doubton its nobility and worth.
The simple fact that the slant for this Monday is to mock Glen Beck is all the testament one needs to see his persecution complex rearing its ugly head. No one else would even pay lip service to Beck's criticism, or anyone else's for that matter. But b/c Vince lives on pins and needles when it comes to acceptance at large, every slight prick at his skin is the equivalent of taking a pound of flesh. Vince simply can't place things in their proper perspective, which invites the very negative attention he claims is unjustly thrown his way.
This wasn't during the show, it was a promo on wwe.com
ReplyDeleteBasically the equivalent of a DVD extra
If they do this in the middle of the ring on RAW it'll detract from the show, right now its a bit of fun
A lot of large corporations are run by total morons who hate the product they sell and are just looking for a payday. As long as there are people under them who need the paycheck, the places will limp by
ReplyDeleteYou're exactly right. WWE mentality is that they're constantly victimized and that they always need to defend themselves. The fact of the matter is, they had an opportunity here to give real heat and attention to a storyline that, I would say, most people don't really care about. Instead, they're willing to sacrifice all of that by having Swagger pull back the curtain and say, "Nah, I'm just acting. This isn't even my real name!!!"
ReplyDeleteTelevision is constantly under attack, even as recently as the shooting in Connecticut. Yet these shows that WWE constantly compares themselves to would never, ever say "cut" in the middle of a scene and film the actors talk about how this is fake, and then end it with "alright, let's get back in character."
There isn't anything terribly wrong with what they did, just the platform. Have Jack Swagger -- the person -- give an interview with Entertainment Weekly or some newspaper. But promoting this on their website and Twitter feed (while simultaneously pushing their scripted storylines) kills it.
Why is WWE giving Glenn Beck the time of day? The guy is WAY less important than he was a year ago. I was starting to forget he existed and if I wasn't a wrestling fan I never would have heard this. Why waste your time and resources on something that almost no one pays attention to anymore? He isn't even on TV anymore.
ReplyDeleteShe needs to give up her position with creative and take Linda's old job.
ReplyDeleteShe also must be the reason why we're getting heartthrobs like Brad Maddox on TV. Ooh yeah the MTV crowd will love him because he's HAWT
ReplyDeleteHere's another thing that pisses me off about this video: nothing that Dutch says is actually a response to Glenn Beck's criticism. Nothing. Beck was never confused about whether wrestling is real, or whether they are playing "characters". He never debated the amount of people who watch Monday Night Raw, or whether or not the WWE was telling "stories." In fact if you watch the Beck clip, they talk about WWE writers having concocted the character.
ReplyDeleteBeck's point (and mind you, I hate the freakin' guy) was that the WWE had created a character who obviously was meant to be a representation of the Tea Party, and portraying him as a crazy villain. That was Beck's point. And in that sense, he's 100% right and nothing in this stupid fucking video is an answer to his point. WWE saying that they are "entertainment" and that they're "telling stories" or that they are PG isn't an answer to criticisms about their storytelling. I mean, I'm sure someone like Beck hates HBO's The Newsroom because it portrays his party as evil morons. And that's his right, because that's what that ENTERTAINMENT SHOW is doing, just like WWE is doing.
So again, what is the purpose of this? If Beck were to come on Raw he'd be absolutely make Stephanie and company look like fools, based on the line of debate they're going with. And why do they want Beck on their show? So he could come on, laugh at them and call it fake? So he could shit on their audience? And for WHAT GAIN? A slight ratings bump (if that, this dude is a complete niche has been) that ends up turning off a good portion of your actual fanbase? Again, this whole stunt just screams "Stephanie McMahon embarrassment of the wrestling business" and as a fan makes me sad for the future of wrestling once she's 100% in control.
They won an argument that no one was having
ReplyDelete100% spot on dude. All this video does is make the WWE and any of their fans look like morons. They addressed nothing he said and look stupid. Thanks Stephanie.
ReplyDeleteBeck is stupid for a lot of reasons, but Dutch comes off like a moron (Stephanie scripted, of course) in his response. Nothing Dutch actually said was an answer to any of Beck's criticisms of the storyline. Saying "we're just playing characters!" isn't an answer to "the characters on your show are portraying the Tea Party unfairly." All he did was reiterate something that Beck was never questioning in the first place. I hate Beck, but I hope he rips apart this stupid fucking promo bit by bit and makes WWE look even more ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY. At what point was Beck's argument ever about whether WWE was real or not? WWE's response to criticism about their storylines is always to say "Hey we're just telling stories!" Except that's not a fucking response you dummies.
ReplyDeleteIt surprises you that WWE is somehow behind the times?
ReplyDeletePunk didn't outright admit to the camera that the whole thing is a faked product or refer to himself by his real name.
ReplyDeleteI'm really unclear on how in any way WWE defeated Beck's argument.
ReplyDeleteBasically:
Beck called WWE out for doing a storyline in which they created a character who was meant to represent the Tea Party, and they portrayed him as a racist villain. OK, so that's Beck's argument.
WWE's response was to say "Hey we're fake! These are characters and we're just telling stories! I'm the antagonist! Millions of people love our TV show blah blah blah."
So where in that response do they ever address Beck's initial argument? He never questioned whether wrestling was fake, or whether these were characters, or whether they knew the definitions of antagonist and protagonist. He acknowledged all of that. His critique was the WAY in which they were using their characters. ANd nothing in Dutch's pointless promo was a response to that. So as much as I dislike Glenn Beck, if one were scoring this confrontation he wins in a landslide. WWE made Dutch look ridiculous.
The sooner this angle falls on its face and Ziggler cashes in the briefcase, the better.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, you pretty much rattled off all of my personal least favorite scenes of The Sopranos. Good god that Lauren Bacall episode was bad.
ReplyDeleteBut I'd have to disagree with you otherwise. I'd say that there's a fuzzy line with WWE as to what should be considered part of the show. ANd yes, this is less offensive because it happened on their website rather than on Raw, but simply because less people will end up seeing it. Nevertheless, they released it as an official WWE video in which Swagger and Zeb started by cutting a kayfabe promo and then broke character. And to me, that's breaking the 4th wall during the show. Also, this is so ridiculous because they're doing it within a program that they're trying to build heat for RIGHT NOW. This isn't a DVD commentary in which Ted Dibiase talks about how he wasn't a real Million Dollar Man 20 years ago. They're basically kneecapping a brand new storyline.
And as for your point about the Sopranos scenes, I wouldn't call those examples of breaking the 4th wall. They may have been shitty scenes or episodes, but I'd compare those in wrestling terms to witnessing a bad match, or a bad storyline. Tony never turned to the camera and told the audience he was really an actor. Those scenes may have sucked, or seemed ridiculous, but they all still made sense as existing within the reality of that TV show.
In other words, he was being CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteBut not once did Beck ever insinuate he didn't know how wrestling orks. He knows they are actors and have writers and that these were storylines. That was never a confusion on his part. This video answered a question that Beck and nobody else was asking.
ReplyDeleteThey'll give Ryder a new 'Ben Heck' gimmick.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but he's not saying "Jack Swagger is a character I was forced to play, now I'm going to be myself...", he's saying "Jack Swagger is a character I play, this is fake, this is entertainment, I'm Jack Swagger and I'm going to get you Del Rio"...
ReplyDeleteThe examples you mentioned were meant to change the character, this is just Swagger ceasing to play the character you explain to you that it's just a character then going back into character. I just don't see what they're trying to do there.
They've already brought Donald Trump aboard in the past. They may as well go full retard.
ReplyDeletePunk tows that kayfabe line a lot in his tweets, giving us mostly real-life insights while also throwing in some in-character stuff (his tweet after the Lawler heart attack angle was really funny, even if the angle was awful) in-between. He's a master at towing that line, something Swagger can't begin to fathom.
ReplyDeleteMy question is, how did Dutch end up involved in this? You'd think that if anyone would know about kayfabe and OWNING a fucking character, it'd be an old-school guy like him.
Can we not extend your arguement about it making sense within the context of the Soprano's to say that this makes sense within the context of wrestling (Faces of Foley, Brian Pillman etc). This isn't the first time someone has broken character. Hell in the two examples I listed above it was the focal point of an angle, rather than a throwaway skit.
ReplyDeleteIs this really so out of character for wrestling? It's perhaps more direct than other instances but I'm not so sure its that far out of context for wrestling.
Hey, we may not agree on this one but I am with you all the way on that Lauren Bacall episode. Utter Shitballs.
Though I won't have a word said against Big Billy Bass. That fish was genius.
It's typical Vince logic.
ReplyDeleteYou don't like WWE? Well that's just because you don't get it, because if you were smart enough to get it you'd appreciate our brilliance. So let us explain to you in a condescending way why you're stupid for not liking WWE, because if you weren't a bias idiot you'd love the stories we tell. We love freedom of speech, we hate bullies, but if you use your freedom of speech to give an opinion we don't agree with we'll bully you while telling you you're the bully.
Yeah, this definitely reeks of the Stephanie McMahon Persecution Complex we've come to know and hate over the past 10 years.
ReplyDeleteMost of these examples aren't explicit interludes meant to directly tell the audience that wrestling is fake, right before going back "into character."
ReplyDeleteExcept for that last one with the Ministry. I recall just about everyone at the time watching this angle and reacting with "Wow, that's colossally stupid!" right before they never spoke of it again.
Exactly. Punk's complains fit into kayfabe. Saying he should get more opportunities because he's more talented than Cena is something you can take either way - it'd be no different than a basketball player flipping out because the team gives another player more playing time or puts him on the cover of the program.
ReplyDeleteWhat the fuck is wrong with them? I can't begin to comprehend the thinking behind this. They wanted a reaction, they got one, then they acted like little bitches because someone said something nasty about wrestling. Boo-fucking-hoo.
ReplyDeleteDutch Mantel can talk though, huh? Or rather Wayne Keown. Or rather Zeb Coulter.
At least he got rid of that "Spiderman 3 Emo Peter Parker" haircut.
ReplyDeleteKayfabe died long ago.
ReplyDeleteYou dribble and you shoot, you hope for the best.
ReplyDeleteThere was only one point to be made and Dutch didn't make it. The point is, Glenn, you got worked by a wrestling show. You are a moron. You are a mark. You have the intelligence of the backwoods inbred hillbillies who think that this shit is real.
ReplyDeleteThat's what needed to be said.. Instead, Dutch gave a Vince speech..
What I don't understand is this: Vince has NEVER been good at self parody. Yet, these tea party folks are the EXACT same people Linda was catering to in the election. How does Vince even approve this gimmick as a spoof in the first place?
ReplyDeletePart of me wants him to actually accept their invitation and embarrass the shit out of them, just to see the type of spin WWE tries to put on it.
ReplyDeletea-fucking-men
ReplyDeleteBeck never insinuated that he thought wrestling was real. His critique was of a storyline which he recognized as such. How is he a "mark"?
ReplyDeleteI dont know, my wife-who isnt a fan but watches with me anyway-hated the angle yet appreciated And was glad that they did this video.
ReplyDeleteSoooo maybe it does appeal to non fans? Like i said i dont know, i dont mind the vid myself.
Even more than showing, on raw, heels like delrio and mark henry meeting kids and telling us to "be a star"? I dunno...
ReplyDeleteBut they do it all the time...
ReplyDeleteWWE.com gets a lot of traffic. I think plenty of young fans probably had the rug pulled out from under them.
ReplyDeleteOn one hand i agree with you. I guess in principle i agree with your argument.
ReplyDeleteBut i feel like wwe has been doing this "break kayfabe in the middle of the show" for the past few years. One minute its the monster bully mark henry doing what he do, next its henry meeting little tykes and telling us all to be a star!
Dont worry kids, ol mark is just playing a bully, being a bully aint cool! Then they cut from that and there's. Henry beating up a little luchadore.
This is what the E does, im kinda surprised by the outcry this time. Its like, youre all a little late.
Dutch is there to get a paycheck. I doubt he cares about keeping kayfabe at this point. And considering this is very likely his last opportunity to be showcased on a national stage like this, I'm sure he wasn't going to rock the boat by refusing to do a promo.
ReplyDeleteThe pro wres is truly dead. It's not even about kayfabe. Just fucking stupid.
ReplyDeleteWait a minute....is wrestling not real?
ReplyDeleteWell, that explains why my garbage man didn't know how to wrestle, and those guys on the repo reality shows don't wear bandit masks.
Who is this, Icarus? By definition, he got WORKED. I am perplexed by your confusion.
ReplyDeleteDang Jethro
ReplyDeleteHe did call himself Phil Brooks in that one interview with Triple H.
ReplyDeleteHave no idea who Icarus is, but no, I am not.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, again, how did Beck get "worked"? He never thought wrestling was real. Pointing out something about a WWE storyline doesn't make one a mark— it makes you someone having an opinion about a TV show. If he said that a sketch on SNL was unfairly portraying someone, would that also make him a "mark"?
The only people who will have gotten "worked"would be WWE if they let Beck come on Raw and shit-talk their product to absolutely no benefit for themselves.
Kid Rock! Fred Durst!
ReplyDeleteAnd they can't exactly come out to his critique and say "Yea, he is the heel because tea party extremists are all racist white assholes with nothing better to do." Actually, if they really want mainstream coverage, maybe they should just come out and say that.
ReplyDeleteThis was long after Vince had already outed him during the live contract signing.
ReplyDeleteBeck is a conservative, who claims that it is what individuals do that matters, not groups. An individual character arguing using some of the common issues and images of the Tea Party does not impugn the Tea Party, unless Beck is declaring that every member of this movement to be virtuous and must be portrayed as such. WWE, by breaking character and inviting him to come discuss the issue, has given Beck the chance to argue this straight up. His refusal to do so is tantamount to defeat, because he always claims to be willing to debate issues.
ReplyDeleteI despise Beck, but he can have a freebie:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJjRxl3bL9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfzvWEJEM94
ReplyDeleteI think it's worthwhile to note this promo from Vince McMahon on December 15, 1997. It's the official introduction to the Attitude Era and it had utterly zero pretense of kayfabe.
I have not read what Beck said, but I guess he basically said "I don't people who believe in my politics being portrayed as villains". The WWE's response to that should be "we just have our characters say things similar to what you say, and it gets boo'ed. We're not the ones boo'ing you, it's our audience and our audience is made up of people from all walks of life. In fact, calling them stupid for liking professional wrestling goes a long way of proving our point that you and your ilk are intolerant."
ReplyDeleteNow the WWE kind of did that, but the emphasis was on bragging about their audience, because they are terribly insecure and reminding us that they're entertainment, without actually saying how this answers Beck's argument.
They also responded in the wrong context. Regardless of whether this was aired on Raw or NXT, or WWE.com, it's part of WWE's show. You don't break the illusion during a performance, as it ruins the fun for your audience. The best way to respond to Beck would've been for Vince to answer his point himself. It could have been done during WWE programing, but not during the show itself. One of the WWE's biggest flaws is they portray wrestling in a way where you can't believe all the time, through the way they produce backstage stuff and this is just a symptom of larger problem. If Mantell had to respond to the criticism, he could have easily done it in character; "why are you getting mad at us for spreading your message?"
Que?
ReplyDeleteI really like that they have a green screen for a friggin' shack with a flag on it. that's the funniest thing I've seen this week.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, the version they now show on WWE's website is different from the one shown above. The one on there has no green screen reveal (it picks up with Zeb talking about WWE's demographics and Beck's comment about "stupid wrestling people") with the regular "Don't Tread On Me" backdrop. There's nothing with Swagger and Zeb saying that they're just playing characters (although the reference to their show having over 60 characters remains) and revealing their real names. And no part at the end about them "getting back into character." It's basically edited down to keep them in character.
ReplyDeleteHuh?
ReplyDeleteIt takes five minutes to create that backdrop on a computer. You think it's normal to instead spend however much time and money is necessary to create an actual shack and flag for filming purposes?
Did your garbageman know how to make homemade GHB?
ReplyDeleteIt's like how MTV tried to make us forget that the second half of Michael Jackson's "Black or White" video ever existed.
ReplyDelete3:43 I guess the WWE Universe is no longer tired of the same old simplistic theory of "Good Guys VS Bad Guys".
ReplyDeleteDid you ever strip your garbage man naked and tie him up in your shower?
ReplyDeleteThis is the kind of thing that WWE does when they're desperate to promote Wrestlemania. Like the Billionaire Ted skits, and Roseanne vs Donald Trump.
ReplyDeleteI think hat tthey are scared shitless that WM29 will do a worse buyrate than WM28, something that would probably sink their stock below $5.
And then briefly stick my dick (or maybe a plunger, depending on who's telling the rumor) in his ass? Can't say that I have.
ReplyDeleteThe only way to save this is if it just turns out that Zeb Coulter and Jack Swagger were pretending to be actors Wayne Keown and Jake Hager in order to lure Glen Beck onto TV where Coulter and Swagger can trick him into siding with Del Rio (aka Jose Rodriguez) against them and thus assert themselves as the most extreme right wing force imaginable.
ReplyDeleteHey guys. My name is Christopher Schmidt. BeardMoney is just a name I use when commenting to elicit a response from you, my fellow posters. Now sometimes I may use sarcasm, but in real life I am a very sincere and serious individual. Sometimes we may lose track of the fact that professional wresting is a fantasy sport meant to be enjoyed in a purely nonsensical fashion. At these times we may suffer a negative backlash for any emotional investment that we've misguidedly made in the stories on our screens. Often this will lead us to wish ill upon certain chemically enhanced billionaires and perhaps their cranially anesthetized daughters as well. At these times we must remember that we are the architects of our own despair whenever we give this company anything but the lowest estimation of their respect for our intelligence. Let's finish this off.
So Beck is in Del Rio's corner at Wrestlemania. Then he steps in to take care of Coulter but swerves Del Rio's and hit's him with a border patrol flashlight and Swagger gets the Patriot Anklelock for the tapout. Then Del Rio wins the title back at Extreme Rules (with Glen Beck and Coulter handcuffed to Ricardo Rodriguez) and nothing matters ever in the WWE...as usual.
There's an American Pie parody to be had that I am too lazy to come up with right now.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with Maddox or having pretty people on TV?
ReplyDeleteNothing, just as long as they can wrestle/cut a promo/not make me feel like they're there based on their pretty eyes alone
ReplyDeleteI can get you a shack, dude. in under 5 minutes. with a flag.
ReplyDeleteLay off the Sopranos and read a book. Icarus made wings of wax in the olden days (when lions could get rich) so he could fly. He wound up flying too close to the sun and crashed to his doom, like how you've been crashing all over this thread.
ReplyDeleteBeck got worked, he (and his ilk) have brought attention to the WWE just in time for the buildup to WM season, even putting up a text response on the Blaze to the video above (he's apparantly busy on Monday doing "anything else"). The WWE has a smaller definition of "bad attention" than most companies, and Beck hasn't done a good job of explaining why his tea party ilk should be exempt from lampoonery while it's OK to stereotype all the other groups that WWE stereotypes as part of "entertainment." I liked the promo (I'm allowed) and I thought Dutch did a great job in the middle of the promo of explaining why the Beckolytes should be watching him on Monday night.
I've seen, heard and read enough Beck to reason that if he did show up on Raw in Dallas, at least 80% of his unedited five minutes would be drowned in a chorus of boos from the Metroplex chapter of the WWE Universe.
PS - Lay off the DUI. I can't imagine a REAL American wanting to be sober in Biloxi for long.
I need to quit thinking I've heard every wrestling related rumor & story on Earth. Because there's always something else.
ReplyDeleteDuke use to make his own GHB and then rape people with toiletry items? Wasn't that gimmick infringement as far as TL Hopper was concerned?
First off, I know the legend of Icarus. I assumed the poster was referring to some other poster named Icarus. Sorry for not picking up on his nonsensical reference!
ReplyDeleteAgain, it's nice that some people just learned the words "worked" and "mark" and really wanna use them in a sentence, but Beck isn't getting worked here. Him discussing WWE doesn't do shit for them, and if he comes on the show and uses his 5 minutes to call wrestling fake and shit on the audience, it will damage the product. He's not a wrestling villain playing along-- even admist a chorus of boos, if he had a love mic at Raw he'd be able to kill off the whole show.
WWE is working itself if they think Glenn Beck somehow makes them relevant, or if they think his rant on them leads to ANY new wrestling fans, or if they think that exposing one of their top angles is a good idea.
Lastly, if WWE had argued your points about WWE lampooning lots of groups and how they're fair and balanced in whom they lampoon, and why should the Tea Party be above it--- we'll that would have been something. But that's not what they did. They ignored everything he said and acted as if Beck had no idea that wrestling was fake. As Jobber123 pointed out, they answered a question that nobody was asking.
Vkm say: scream09 gets it!
ReplyDeleteI think he was making GHB to rape bar skanks, and JBL got wind of it and cornered him in the shower, and supposedly stuck something in his ass. Very possible it's not true, JBL came into the company right around the same time that Duke was leaving, IIRC.
ReplyDeleteso you don't think it would be ridiculous if this would happen on a webisode of a "normal" tv show?
ReplyDeletethe last idea would have been great.
ReplyDeleteStephanie: Hey Dutch, we need you to cut a promo responding to Glenn Beck.
ReplyDeleteDutch: Hey, major cable news! Jack and I can cut a promo to garner some support among a likely friendly audience!
Stephanie: Actually, we were thinking you could expose the business, use your real name and shit all over the angle we created for the express purpose of engaging the Tea Party audience.
Dutch: I'll be taking my payment in cash from now on.
Some people are good at it and some people aren't. Punk is good at it. That's the thing about performances, two people reading the same lines aren't equal.
ReplyDeletePlus, Punk's arguments are emotionally true within kayfabe and outside of it. It plays off the tension that is already present in combat sports. It's similar to a boxer claiming that the champ is dodging him, or that a champion isn't a true champion due to the fight promoters feeding the champ a bunch of patsies. Just look at the bullshit with the IOC, couldn't you see someone cutting a shoot style promo on the little shit who is in charge of making sure that Pentathlon stays over wrestling? Or what about Charlie Sheen's feud with Chuck Lorre where Sheen insisted on calling Lorre by his more Semitic name?
Punk crosses the line a few times, but there's a big difference between saying "I'm a Paul Heyman guy" and "We're characters just like any other tv show." One has a double meaning, the other is just giving away the game.
Well it's one thing to say "I have an in ring name" but this is more akin to him saying "I'm Phil Brooks, and I'll be playing the character of CM Punk." I mean rap artists have multiple names, aliases, alter egos etc, and boxers frequently have ring names or monikers that become more important than their real names. Remember what happened to the white boxer who insisted on calling Ali "Cassius" leading up to a fight?
ReplyDeleteHell, Ali actually tried to get Chuck Wepner (The inspiration for Rocky Balboa) to call Ali the N word leading up to the fight to play up the black vs white angle. So having Punk play with line between fake and real in a fake sport isn't that different from Ali toying with the line between fake and real in his real sport (depending who you talk to, it's real).
They say they're like Glee, which has actually had some similar controversies about storylines. They don't post YouTube videos with the actors explaining they are actors, ya know?
ReplyDeletePlenty of shows have webisode episodes that aren't strictly speaking canonical - Dr Who for one
ReplyDelete