Ric Flair vs. Bret Hart for one hour?
Ironman Rules??
What fan had a camera in the early 90s that could record for an hour? Thank you Al Gore for this internet shit!
Ironman Rules??
What fan had a camera in the early 90s that could record for an hour? Thank you Al Gore for this internet shit!
This match is a little bizarre and an excellent example of how their styles clash. There are moments where Flair tries to plug Bret into the "Sting formula" and it just doesn't work. Even despite their miscommunication and qualms with each others ring work, it hits the four star mark easily. Those two were just that good at that time.
ReplyDeleteIs this match at Madison Square Garden? I remember Meltzer or Alvarez mentioned it on a WO Daily Update post a little while ago where someone who was there said it was the best live match he had ever seen.
ReplyDeleteBut apparently, Bret HATES the match with a passion.
And I'm really over Bret shitting on every match he had with Flair. Fuck the guy put him over a billion times in a six month span and all of the matches sucked?
ReplyDeleteI think this was in Boston
ReplyDeleteI think it was a matter of both dance partners wanting to lead. Flair wanted to lead the match based on experience but Bret believed that he, as world champ, should do so. I guess I can't blame either since both were used to leading matches and carrying guys less talented than they were.
ReplyDeleteI think in Bret's book, he mentions that he had to chastise Ric in the dressing room about it and Flair agreed with him but still went out and messed up the matches. Ric later apologized to Bret, though, claiming personal and injury issues were taking his head out of the game.
I hear you. But we all know the kind of stubborn perfectionist Bret was in regards to his work.
ReplyDeleteBret Hart hating something? Imagine that.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the WO post meant Boston. I can't remember exactly. I know it was one of the bigger cities.
ReplyDeletewhere are all of these rare matches coming from? some of them have to be faked. are you sure this isn't WWE '13?
ReplyDeleteIt's at the old Boston Garden.
ReplyDeleteBret mentioned in his book that the reason Flair couldn't work with Bret was because Flair wasn't use to planning out matches ahead of time, so kept forgetting his spots as Flair was only use to the old school way of doing things by calling spots during the match.
ReplyDeleteSilly rabbit, there's nothing fake about pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteBret also mentioned in his book that Flair later came up to him and said that Bret gave him the best tongue lashing in a locker room he had ever received.
ReplyDeleteWho are these two mid carders?
ReplyDeleteWhat a heroic effort by the legend Bret Hart, carrying this incompetent stiff. I know he received a standing ovation once the boys in the back hoisted him onto their shoulders, and as the arena flooded with the tears shed by the fans in attendance.
ReplyDeleteFlair was also so drunk during the match Bret had to carry him like it was Weekend at Bernies. That's why he deserved (and I have tears in my eyes as I say this) to be WWF Champion.
ReplyDeleteThat sounds really homoerotic...
ReplyDeleteThey are so small they wouldn't get recognized walking through the airport with their t-shirt on carrying the belt!
ReplyDeleteI think we all remember the size of video cameras back in the early 90's. Did the fan sneak this camera in a body-bag or something?
ReplyDeletenot even the deaths?
ReplyDeleteyou're a doofus.
ReplyDeleteseriously though, you're totally right. cams were gig as shit
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing the Boston Garden had a stationary camera post and it was used to film all house shows there for evaluation purposes?
ReplyDeleteHe was wearing Hammer pants I bet.
ReplyDeleteWas it getting closure on Montreal or just the incessant self-flagellation that caused the whole internet to start hating Bret? Yeah the guys a mark for himself but damn. Seems like not that long ago he was the Lord and Saviour according to most smarks, and then the minute it becomes clear he himself agrees that he's the Lord and Saviour, everyone hates on him. Cold ass world we live in.
ReplyDeleteLOLLLLL
ReplyDeleteLOVE IT
ReplyDeleteYeah, I don't get it either. It seems like people actually resent him for not being the cliche bitter ex wrestler anymore. So weird.
ReplyDeleteYour regular contribution was missed, man. The balance of comments has shifted too far in the wannabee stand-up direction for my liking.
ReplyDeleteHowdy Ryan!
ReplyDeleteI think it's the fact that everyone and their mother (HHH excluded) has apologized and taken the blame in Montreal. Shawn mentioned how much grief he gave the guy in his retirement speech on national TV and apologized AGAIN and said Bret had every right to harbor hatred toward him and he appreciated his forgiveness. Then they had a two-hour documentary where Shawn's like "yup, I did everything wrong" and still you get the feeling it's not enough.
No one can turn back time. If Bret could actually still go I bet they would re-do the entire match to form in Montreal so he could win and celebrate and do whatever and you still get the feeling it wouldn't be enough. You think Vince wouldn't re-do Over the Edge 1998 if he could? Of course he would. He didn't want anyone to die on his watch. It was a fatal mistake and a horrific accident. But holding those grudges ain't gonna change reality. It doesn't bring people back to life, it doesn't erase the past.
I get it. We've all been the victim of something in our lives and it is tough to move on, but really all people can do is apologize and ask for forgiveness. And unfortunately he doesn't really seem like the forgiving type. I don't hate him, I feel sorry for anyone that can't forgive because they are the only ones still suffering.
I guess it was that interview where he said Triple H never had a great match. Suddenly everyone feels bad for Triple H.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think it's the subconscious work of HBK fans who are desperately trying to convince themselves that Shawn wasn't the bigger dickhead in 1997.
ReplyDeletePS Shawn clearly was.
To add to that, it's the same leeway pro athletes get when they are assholes/fuckups. If they're on your favorite team, bad behavior is excused or explained away. If they aren't, suddenly they deserved more punishment and got off easy.
ReplyDeleteBack in the late-90s, lots of fans sided with Bret. But since Shawn's reformation and the tremendous 2nd-half he added to his career starting in 2002, fans gravitated to his side. It didn't help that Bret had to retire and was thus out of the limelight. With HBK back in the fan's good graces, he was now the "favorite" so his past behavior was excused while Bret was now the wrong party.
I'm surprise the wwe hasn't tried to steal this feed, rip it onto a blu-ray disk and charge $24.99 for it.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe the HBK apologists. Yes, the dude was AMAZING onscreen around that time, but it [should] be undeniable that he was also a gigantic asshole.
ReplyDeleteAnd how did security not stop him?
ReplyDeleteI think that's the problem people have with Hart. He's got a personal problem with the guy (Flair, HHH) and so they're a bad worker. He can't separate the two?
ReplyDeleteLike on his most recent DVD, he said Flair doesn't understand psychology. Really? FLAIR doesn't understand psychology???
I think it was Scott who made this analogy first, reading Flair and Bret's constant sniping at each other (Flair is by no means innocent in this either) is like watching two hot chicks trying to convince you they're hot while the other is ugly. C'mon gals, you're both pretty.
I don't think anyone denies it, since he admits it ALL THE TIME. But people got over it because at the end of the day Shawn didn't green light Montreal. Vince green lighted Montreal. Shawn was more than willing to go through with it and take the heat. But if he didn't, someone else would have.
ReplyDeletePast behavior excused? Sure. But I don't think that turned Bret into the wrong party. Honestly Shawn has taken a lot more blame for Montreal than Vince when Vince has all but begged the wrestling community to blame him since he orchestrated the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteThese kids are gonna go far in this business if they can keep putting on matches like this!
ReplyDeleteVince is irrelevant to this part of the discussion because at the heart, it's Bret vs. Shawn. As Shawn made his comeback (which included multiple 5-star classics) and changed his life for the better, more fans began gravitating to his side. I'd bet anything that if Shawn wasn't performing at a high level from '02 on, the tide of hate wouldn't have shifted toward Bret.
ReplyDeleteHe was a dick, but I don't see why Shawn being a dick means Bret Hart has to be WWF Champion. Shawn being an asshole and Bret's role in the company are two different things that somehow got tied together. It's like saying your backup QB should start the Superbowl because the starter is a jerk.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen this but I thought their other matches did kind of suck.
ReplyDeleteHart's style was more realism-based than Flair and his stupid Flair Flop. Keep in mind I'm talking about his WWF run.
They're two ring generals and neither would give to the other. In all honesty, Flair should have given in to Bret. I can't imagine an 80s style Flair match with Bret being the body-of-the-moment... however, I can imagine a Bret match with Flair being a total dick and having it work wonders.
ReplyDelete... in bed. Sunny confirmed.
ReplyDeleteShawn didn't even take the heat. He denied his involvement for five years.
ReplyDeleteI'm sensing a real dislike of Bret Hart from you, Princess. On multiple posts in the past, you've taken shots at him.
ReplyDeleteIt's like how Bret Hart takes shots at dudes like HHH, Flair, Hogan, etc!!!
You've become the thing you hate!!!
I don't care what anyone says. Bret Hart is my favourite wrestler of all-time and his classic matches are among the best in wrestling history.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I was that overwrought kid in the famous Bret hype videos. You know the one:
"THANK YOU BRET....!"
Speaking of HHH, seeing how WM is in smark territory, could it be that he gets booed during his match with Lesnar? Yeah, Brock was booed like crazy at WMXX but I'm sure his UFC career and his monster persona will still get him over with the fans.
ReplyDeletePersonally I try to play it on a case by case basis. I'm a fan of Bret but if he says something I disagree with I'll voice my opinion. Like when he said Triple H never had a great match. I disagreed and I voiced that disagreement. But I don't hate him. And it doesn't change the fact that he was one of the best in the 1990's.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I never understood is why everyone hates on Bret for being a mark for himself. All the tippy-top guys back in his day had to be. It was one of the ways to make it to the top. If Vince didn't see you having a world champ's swagger, he wasn't going to push you to that level.
ReplyDeleteThe guy dedicated his life to wrestling and is lauded by fans and his peers for his accomplishments. What's wrong with acknowledging it? Sure, he puts down Flair and Hogan but he also praises Curt Hennig, Dynamite Kid, Savage, Steamboat, Bam Bam, Waltman, Punk, Cena, Angle, AJ Styles, Mysterio and even Shawn Michaels. As a guy who wrestled just about everyone and everywhere in the world during his career, you could consider him one of the few living authorities on wrestling from the first days of television to the modern era.
I'd guess his book was a real driver here too
ReplyDeleteI've seen the title change and the match from Bret's lastest DVD, I'd give the title change ****1/2 and the match from Bret's DVD ***3/4 - ****.
ReplyDeleteI mean, we're talking about these matches like they were total train wrecks, but to most eyes they were REALLY GOOD.
Like I said, c'mon gals, you're both pretty.
And yet he feels like those are some of his worst matches. He's perfectly in the right to shit on them.
ReplyDeleteHell, the only two people who are really allowed to be critical of the matches (In the way Bret mentions them. Fan ratings don't matter in this case) are Bret and Flair.
I don't really get any kind of general impression that "people hate Bret/love Shawn" or vice-versa. Maybe it's true on this blog, but to me it's always seemed like there were Bret guys and Shawn guys, going back to the late 1990s.
ReplyDeleteIt's one thing if you just never enjoyed their work or liked their style. What I don't get is why any of the backstage stuff influences the ability to appreciate (or not appreciate) their work. However delusional their viewpoint may be, how many dick moves they made, wives or girlfriends they cheated on,or whether or not they accept Jesus as their lord and savior -- what does it matter? While it may be true of their characters, the guys who play them are not supposed to be heroes or people one should aspire to be.
Both guys brought the goods for most of their careers. Now I personally feel that Shawn's post 2002 work is overrated, either due to fuzzy feelings people have or a general acceptance of a WWE style that I don't personally care for, but nobody can deny that Bret had a bad WCW run either. So neither guy is perfect, but even still, both are two of the greatest ever.
But is it really Bret's fault? Everyone keeps asking him about it in every press interview he does and he's honest with his feelings. I'd rather he's honest than being a fucking puppet of WWE where he has to talk about how great HHH is like Arn and Steamboat do.
ReplyDeleteAnd WWE is partly to blame for their constant bringing up of Montreal for DVDs and such. And aren't they hosting like some panel with Shawn and Bret at the Fan Fest with Jim Ross moderating? The company won't let it go because they want to wring more money out of it so why should Bret forget the worst night of his professional career where he was humiliated by the company he worked so hard for?
In hindsight, I actually wish Bret never returned to WWE.
Simple.
ReplyDeleteWrestling fans don't like whiners.
Shawn doesn't whine about doing drugs and being an asshole.
Bret...regardless of what he's really saying, will always be viewed as a whiner.
Yes, it needs a WWE logo in the corner. And all of that choking edited out too.
ReplyDeleteI never minded Bret's whining because he is probably the only one who has a legit gripe.
ReplyDelete"It was one of the ways to make it to the top. If Vince didn't see you having a world champ's swagger, he wasn't going to push you to that level."
ReplyDeleteTHIS AGAIN (dude, we seem to agree a lot).
Jericho mentioned in his book that it took him cursing out Vince after hearing a rumor that Vince was thinking of taking the title off him for Vince to get behind him as champion.
Shawn was also a drug addict who had to constantly be carried away in front of fans by Triple H multiple times.
ReplyDeleteTHAT'S the clincher.
His time was up, he was asked to lose like everyone else does, he thought he was too special to do that, the company did what was best for the company anyway....what's Bret's gripe? It would be like Drew Bledsoe saying "okay, Brady can be the starter, but I want to play the Superbowl first", and when coach Bill tells Drew to take a seat, Drew cries foul for 10 years.
ReplyDeleteEven as a mark I felt that way about him.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't specifically talking about the screw job. You'll be hard pressed to find another wrestler who went through as much shit as Bret did.
ReplyDeleteAgain, he had no problem losing on his way out, it was who they asked him to lose to.
ReplyDeleteSomething Shawn did plenty of times.
But Bret doesn't own the WWF and Vince doesn't need Bret Hart to sign off on his decisions. if Vince felt Shawns drug use was an issue, Vince can put the belt on Marc Mero if he wants, it doesn't have to be Bret Hart, as Bret seems to believe...and we're talking about wrestling - Shawn's the first wrestler to hit the alcohol and drugs hard, huh?
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be under this delusion that Bret constantly thought he should constantly be champion. He thought he could do better as champ than guys like Shawn and Diesel did (which buy rates proved to be true).
ReplyDeleteYou never heard Bret bitch when Yoko was champion or when Taker was champion.
What jobs should Shawn have done and didn't though? When he turned heel he rarely won clean, if he won clean at all....and Bret says he would have lost to anyone other than Shawn, but the only plan B he seriously proposes is to hand the title over on Raw. But again, why does Vince need Bret to approve what he does with his company and his belt? Why does Shawn being a dick who refused jobs (supposedly) mean Bret doesn't have to lose to him? And why does Bret even care about Montreal? Even WWF admitted Vince stopped the match, it actually prevented him from losing the fake fight he refused to lose.
ReplyDeleteHaha, down-voting historical facts. Gotta love you guys.
ReplyDeleteCareer wise he brought some of it on himself...personally, agreed, one tragic incident after another.
ReplyDelete"What jobs should Shawn have done and didn't though?"
ReplyDeleteReally? Doesn't Shawn own the record for most titles lost without a match involved?
I honestly put just as much blame on Shawn as I do on Bret. He was getting the title regardless. Shawn was a dick, Bret was a mark, and Vince was a genius.
ReplyDeleteHe gave up the tag titles as part of the angle with Diesel, the second reign was only done to sell one pay pew view, he was suspended and stipped of the IC title, hurt and gave up the second, and hurt when he gave up the WWF Championship...why give up the title if he's the top guy (money position) when he's supposedly allowed to just refuse to lose anyway...he was hurt. His heel characters were always chickenshits who couldn't beat anyone clean so he wasn't Triple H or anything.
ReplyDeleteWeird complaint.
ReplyDeleteBecause it was in his contract, he was legally allowed to pick who he would drop the title to, and he proposed guys like Foley, Taker, and Shamrock to be the guys to beat him.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't hurt, he even admitted he had basically a tweaked knee that didn't require any type of surgery.
ReplyDeleteThat looks like a really small ring.
ReplyDeleteBret was in a no-win situation as soon as Shawn came back for his-frankly overrated-second run in '02.
ReplyDeleteHe could either keep silent about Montreal and allow the WWE to rewrite history-both subtly and overtly-so as to absolve Saint Shawn of any real blame.
Or he could give his honest opinion and get tagged as whiner by an IWC blindly back in love with HBK.
Terrible luck, always getting "injured" when he was scheduled to drop the title to someone he didn't want to drop it to.
ReplyDeleteShawn doesn't whine about doing exactly what he wanted without any comeuppance? Shocker.
ReplyDeleteHe had reasonable creative control. It's reasonable to make sure you're not burried and humiliated on the way out. There's no professional reason to not lose to the top guy in the company. And while he says he would lose to anyone else, the only other option he seriously proposes and seems to lean towards is giving up the title and giving a farewell speech.
ReplyDeleteHe was hurt twice, the other times were to keep him strong back when top guys didn't just lose matches. Austin didn't lose the IC title either.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't hurt as bad as he was told, but he was hurt and needed three months of rehab to get back in the ring.
ReplyDeleteYou just keep on believing that "injury" story. It's funnier that way.
ReplyDeleteIs that...Miz? Is one of them Miz?
ReplyDeleteThis being 1992, 12 year old Mike Mizanin was absolutely a main-eventer. Of his middle school.
Austin was almost paralyzed after getting dropped on his head, and they weren't sure if he could wrestle anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe IC reign when he handed the title to The Rock. Perry Saturn was supposed to be out a year, he missed a couple of months, Cena comes back from injury in record time - it can happen.
ReplyDeleteYeah but Saturn and Cena didn't suffer smile injuries!
ReplyDeleteI don't have a dog in this fight, but Shawn screwed a few people over by refusing to do the job. Vader and Shane Douglas for starters.
ReplyDeleteWhen he was "hurt" and had to forfeit the IC belt to Douglas, you to don't think he led the parade to job Douglas out to Razor?
ReplyDeleteShawn in the mid to late 90's never did a damn thing that wouldn't benefit him one way or another.
Yeah, and when Austin handed the belt over to the Rock, he was about a week or two away from winning the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteBig difference between giving Dean Douglas the title because you got punched in the face too many times because you got drunk and mouthed off to a few Marines, or because you claim to have a knee injury yet forget which leg to limp on.
A severe case of Jobitis.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, when Bret says something controversial, everyone will freak out and call Bret bitter despite being asked this exact question.
ReplyDeleteEven Shawn Michaels wouldn't go to these lengths to defend himself getting out of doing jobs.
ReplyDeleteI think that's the best way I've heard it described.
ReplyDeleteBut the ultimate difference is(no matter how it happened) Shawn DID lay down for Austin. Bret didn't lay down on his way out. Maybe Undertaker should have threatened him too.
ReplyDeletePerhaps that he didn't should tell you everything you need to know about who was right and who was wrong.
ReplyDeleteDon't you hate when you're in the middle of a debate with someone, and then they betray that they weren't worth debating, and you just wasted all that time? If dude is seriously treating Shawn's "injuries" as real, it's not even worth your time.
ReplyDeleteAnd the fact that he went pounding on Vince's door and not Bret's also tells all you need to know about what Taker thought about that situation.
ReplyDelete...congratulations for missing my point.
ReplyDeleteShawn, for all his faults, and they are many. Didn't whine about anything.
Wrestling fans will always view whiners as heels. Shawn is the cool heel. Bret is the annoying face.
Shawn Michaels is the biggest whiner in the history of wrestling. Bret had genuine reasons to be upset with WWE and down on life like, say.... his brother dying due to (alleged) gross negligence.
ReplyDeleteShawn, meanwhile, whined about crap like doing jobs constantly, including when he - with a known crippling back injury - had to lose to the BIGGEST STAR IN THE COMPANY (Steve Austin) AND after his "resurrection" (ie: Hogan.) There's also video evidence of him throwing a ridiculous hissyfit when a match time was cut (vs. Davey Boy at IYH: BOD) and - to top it all off - when the "boyhood dream came true," he was whining at Earl Hebner to get out of the ring so he could have his big moment.
Still, he seems to have become a better person, though I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that he's used his newfound faith to try erase all that from history. If he has, it seems to have worked on a lot of people.
"I'll believe it when I see the scar. The little fucker doesn't want to drop the belt." - The Undertaker.
ReplyDeleteWho did he whine to?
ReplyDeleteThe fans? Cause they're the ones that matter.
In the court of public opinion. In front of cameras. Shawn didn't whine. And that, ultimately is what is of importance.
Did You Know?
ReplyDeleteBret loves threads like this one.....
Save that crap for your pretend Hall of Fame induction. That would be all well and good if we were talking about John Q. Fan. John Q. Fan doesn't give a shit. They're all "YAY SHAWN!" and "YAY BRET!" (or even "Bret who?") We're talking about Smarks here, many of whom know that this shit happened. The same Smarks who rip Ric Flair weekly for his wrecked marriages and poor financial planning even though he's bled and cried for them, wrestled 60 minutes every day (twice on Sundays) and never complained about it once.
ReplyDeleteIt's become more about proving which guy was "right", and not just about Montreal.
ReplyDeleteBut you're right, at the end of the day, it's just wrestling. And both guys certainly amassed an impressive CV.
Overrated second run?
ReplyDeleteI greatly disagree. Too many classics.
Hows that HBK dick tasting?
ReplyDeletewow...
the little girl?
ReplyDeleteWhen in doubt always toss out Bret and Shawn for dick eating.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, you're entitled to your own opinion.
ReplyDeleteFor me, his second run was fine up until early '06, a couple of stinkers against HHH not withstanding.
After that he just got more and more predictable and wound up outstaying his welcome. Just my opinion.
This match isn't rare. It's been in tape trading circles since the 1990's.
ReplyDeleteYou people have absolutely zero reading comprehension.
ReplyDeleteRyan was asking why people prefer Shawn to Bret.
It's simple. Bret bitches, rightfully, perhaps, but he still bitches, and wrestling fans are conditioned to dislike whiners, regardless of how valid their points are.
Everybody wants to get into a giant Bret vs. Shawn brawl, and y'know what? Let them. I however have only been interested in answering Ryan's question. Right and wrong have nothing to do with what Mr. Murphy wanted to know, so save your moralizing for somebody who gives a shit.
BOOOOO!!!
ReplyDeleteHOW DARE YOU MAKE VALID POINTS THAT MAKE SHAWN OUT TO BE SOMETHING OTHER THAN COMPLETELY EVIL!!!
BOOO!!!!
"Not everything is about you" - Undertaker to Bret.
ReplyDeleteAnd why is that?
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for me to put into words, but to me there's a difference between being cocky or having an ego, and being a mark for yourself. Shawn had a giant ego and was a cocky prick in the 90s, while Bret was and still is a mark for himself. He puts on this air of humility and dignity, but at the same time makes sure to remind anyone who will listen about how great he was. While certainly some of his gripes are legitimate, just as many seem to be sour grapes. He just seems so insecure about his place in wrestling history. The book was the prime example of him feeling a need to constantly put himself over. The recent HHH comments were a bit much as well (and I'm no HHH mark by any means). Someone else here also put it best, Bret can't differentiate between disliking someone personally and their talent as a wrestler.
ReplyDeleteWhich I'm certain was never said by the Undertaker to Bret.
ReplyDeleteNo, because practically everyone who worked there at the time said so.
ReplyDeleteWell, wrestlers would never spread rumors about someone they didn't like and surely they attended Shawn's staged doctor's appointments and read his Xray reports.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash says so in his 1995 timeline shoot.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash is hardly an impartial witness when it comes to Shawn and Bret.
ReplyDeleteSupposedly Bret was being difficult about the finish to their Feb.96 cage match when Undertaker said it, it had nothing to do with Shawn.
ReplyDeleteVader, yes. Shane Douglas blew every chance he got, surely the Clique alone didn't blow this one.
ReplyDeleteActually I was really just asking why Bret has become a running meme for everyone to bash every time his name gets mentioned. Chalk it up to me being offline all winter and missing the "HHH never had a great match" interview. But even still, its weird to me that the smark community isn't overwhelmingly pro-Hart anymore. That used to just be a given.
ReplyDeleteNo idea but I'm still a Bret fan.
ReplyDelete"Well, wrestlers would never spread rumors about someone they didn't like"
ReplyDeleteShawn in his book even says he whined about doing jobs. He said he wasn't happy about doing the job for Austin at Mania and complained about it because no one likes to job, but he did what was right for business.
ReplyDeleteI don't know the context, but if Bret was complaining about the finish to that cage match, well, Bret was being booked like an afterthought that entire title reign so I can see him bitching... and the Undertaker and Nash needed to advance their feud somehow too... so, you know, I've got nothing.
ReplyDeleteActually, the more I learn about how the company felt about Vader at the time (too stiff, hurting guys, always in Vince's dog house), I'm not so sure he would have been booked to beat Michaels in the first place.
ReplyDeleteWe can blame the Clique for that one all we want, but bottom line is when Michaels was deemed unable to wrestle, Douglas was going to get the belt and job it to SOME babyface. That's the mentality when you can't deliver an advertised main event due to injury.
ReplyDeleteIf it wouldn't have been Ramon, it would have been somebody else, but I have no idea who else would have been a babyface at that level.
It's been a long time since Hart's been having good matches. Or really doing much anything of note beyond talking in interviews about shit that did happen to him. The older fan who remembers Hart is disappearing from wrestling, and the younger fan, who's only memory of him is as that guy who hates Shawn (who has been having awesome matches in the last 10 years).
ReplyDeleteBret was WWF champion before I was born. That's probably the case for plenty of other "smarks" out there.
15 is a long time to slide on good will. An artist is only loved as long as they're making art...until they die of course.
Well, according to Bret he was jobbing the belt to Sid no matter what because doing Bret/Shawn for the title at WM13 and become "too predictable."
ReplyDeleteAnd who the fuck read Shawn's book?
ReplyDeleteI didn't...hell, Shawn didn't.
And Austin was being a dick when he didn't drop the belt to Rocky too. He should have done the J-O-B in a match, sorry. I wouldn't have hurt him in the least (and would have helped their main event program later on).
ReplyDeleteI'd imagine like Jesus.
ReplyDeleteHe outstayed his welcome into two of the greatest matches in WrestleMania history. That's what your staying?
ReplyDeleteVince did tell him to lie and let him take the heat.
ReplyDeleteShawn had a pretty good run where he was able to lose belts without actually losing.
ReplyDelete1 Stripped of the i/c title
2 Forfeited another i/c title
3 Lost the world title due to his manager having a "heart attack"
4 Forfeited his 2nd world title due to a supposed knee injury
5 Forfeited a tag title
Isn't Owen on that list also?
ReplyDeleteBret being so critical doesn't surprise me.
ReplyDeleteMost wrestlers, athletes, actors, singers, musicians and entertainers in general are perfectionists who hated the majority of their own work.
Roger Moore for example hated playing James Bond even though it's the only role he's been well known for and Harrison Ford hated the Star Wars movies even though he would have never had an A-List career without those films, so Bret hating what a lot of other people consider to be classic matches is not unusual in that regard.
Well, yes. He'd hung around so long that I was simply too bored with him to really be thrilled by either match, or to care much about the result.
ReplyDeleteI liked 'Takers matches with HHH far more, and I'm no HHH mark.