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HHH's political games

Over the years, HHH has been known to play huge political games, where he'd put himself as champion or top guy, while others that had things going for them would get squashed (RVD, Goldberg, Booker T...). My question is why didn't no one did something about it, like for example, The Undertaker. For all his years in the company,it is known Undertaker can pull strings backstage, so if HHH's political powers were so strong and if - at sometimes - it wasn't the best thing for the business, why didn't Undertaker do something about it? Or, better yet, why does he still - to this day - compliments HHH in the most respectful manner, if at some time, HHH was such a bad influence?

I'm mentioning Undertaker, because he' one of the people that has had stroke inside WWE through the years, but there are also people like The Rock or Steve Austin that had the power to do or say something, if they wanted, but - as far as I know - didn't do it and still, to this day, talk wonders about HHH.

Is it because everyone knew he would eventually be the chairman of the company and no one wanted to be on his bad side? That seems hardly believable.

Thoughts?  Thank you!


Steve Austin and Rock might be friends with HHH and say nice things about him, but they sure didn't take any shit from him.  In fact, Rock and HHH had a fairly famous and notorious silent war backstage where HHH seemingly kept trying to undermine him and Rock just kept getting over.  For example, the Hurricane and Eugene debacles.  You'll notice that Rock and HHH don't really interact anymore.  

As for Undertaker, he's definitely part of Team HHH and has been for a long time.  So there you go.

Comments

  1. I remember there being an "incident" of sorts, though. For a long time, HHH was the ruler of RAW while Taker got Smackdown but when HHH got drafted to SD!, a lot of the young guys complained to Taker of how he was eating them up in the ring, burying them, etc.

    Not sure what Taker did to remedy the situation since HHH found himself back on RAW anyway soon enough.

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  2. I'd like to see one more Rock/HHH match. What if COOHHH helped Cena win the Title at WrestleMania, sort of playing the Vince role for WrestleMania X7?

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  3. Taker probably gave the guys' shower times to JBL. There are much worse things to complain about than Triple H burying you.

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  4. Setting up Rock vs Triple H at SummerSlam... 15 years after their breakout match?

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  5. HowmuchdoesthisguyweighMarch 26, 2013 at 7:57 PM

    Be patient... In ten years or so Triple H will take the new hottest act in the company and try to feud with him. He will absolutely try and recreate the McMahon vs Austin feud at some point.

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  6. Thread jack: Raw bounces to a 3.24 rating this week, up from the really low 3.09 rating last week, but still well below the February to March average leading up to WM this year of 3.42.

    Wade Keller also mentioned in his report that it's the 10th straight week the rating has dropped between the second and third hour. To be fair, I think it's dropped every week since the start of these regular three hour RAWs with the exception of a couple here and there.

    Anyhow, anybody want to make any adjustments to their buyrate prediction? This should be updated in case I missed someone anyway.

    Ian Austin in for 1.9m
    Zanadude (a sarcastic or maybe not) 1.4m
    Scott Keith in for 1.3m
    AmericanWolves02 in for 1.28m
    Marsolo in for 1.25m
    Kbwrestlingreviews in for 1.24m
    Voth22 in for 1.22m
    JohnPetuka in for 1.21m
    Kbjone in for 1.18
    WaylonMercy24 in for 1.17m
    Cabspaintedyellow in for 1.16m
    Chris Olekjko in for 1.15m
    Matthew Graham 1.13m
    The Fuj in for 1.1m
    SlaughterRama in for 1.09m
    Hbkslush in for 1.07m
    Joe in for 1.05m
    YK2310 in for 1.03m
    Flair4dagold in for 1m
    Curtis Williams in for 990k
    Jobber123 in for 980k
    Nwa88 in for 962k
    JoseGomez in for 950k
    Cultstatus in for 925k
    theJawas in for 910k
    Adam Curry in for 900k
    Worst_in_the_World in for 875k
    Stuart_Chartock in for 850k
    Gin Chan in for 800k
    VintageGamer in for 750k

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  7. Going to Price is Right this shit, 1 buy.

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  8. Put me down for 1.04, even though the idea of that many buys just makes me sad.

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  9. I don't think Triple H is nearly as bad as some have made him out to be. Sure there were some title reigns that didn't need to happen. But everything could have been much worse. I'm also kind of glad he's going to be taking over. I think most of the time, he'll do the right thing.

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  10. Like when he neutered Punk last year?

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  11. 575k, just to tick off ProjectBlue

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  12. It doesn't help Flair was telling him how great he was

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  13. Honestly, has Triple H done anything that any guy whose been on top for a long time hasn't done?


    I mean, Austin and Rock were only on top for three years.

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  14. I think part of the reason why we don't see guys like Undertaker or Austin go after Triple H is because maybe they were privy to backstage happenings that lead to Triple H coming off so good or they just understood that's how the game is played

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  15. I'm in for 1.01. Philippe TCA For the win!

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  16. Or despite banging the bosses daughter and knowing the right people, he "paid his dues" and at on point, put on the best matches. Still unforgivable for that Raw run of 02-04

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  17. I think 2002 was forgivable because he'd had such a great run in 2000-2001 and he came back so hot in 2002 that they HAD to at least give a title run a shot. Plus with the way Raw was set up he made the most sense as champ. I think most people just aren't fans of how it happened. He was just handed the title when it easily could have been earned in the Elimination Chamber or something.

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  18. Triple H also revived Flair after Bischoff buried him for years in WCW. Flair had a great run with Triple H and pulled off matches a man his age had no business having.

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  19. I like how you still have the sarcastic or not for 1.4m when someone else is in for 1.9m. My 1.28 is looking dark right now.

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  20. Words Of LightningMarch 26, 2013 at 9:19 PM

    I think the buyrate will be 1.4 million

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  21. He also jobbed to Hogan a month later. Not to mention kick starting HBK's awesome comeback that summer.

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  22. I'll go for 1.19 million.

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  23. That had to suck. Coming back with the reception he got at MSG, winning the title at Mania and then a month later jobbing it to a guy the company you worked for had derided for being on top of their competition for years. I've got no issues with Triple H in 2002. 2003 on the other hand sucked but that was the company in general. Easily one of the worst years for WWE quality wise.

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  24. Marsolo has that taken already

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  25. 995k. I just can't see rematchamania doing over 1,000,000 buys.

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  26. Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm coming from too.

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  27. Vince in 97-2000 was a once in a lifetime character. HHH could never hold a candle to the Mr. McMahon act.

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  28. Put me down for 975, por favor.

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  29. There's a reason that Lawler was on top in Memphis forever, as was Verne in AWA. You gotta go with who you trust, and most people tend to trust themselves over everyone else.

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  30. If Triple H is responsible for this picture being on the front page of WWE.com then he's okay in my book.


    I laughed a good ten minutes.

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  31. Damn. I was going to make that joke. Glad I scrolled all the way down before posting.

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  32. I'm in for 1.2, since it looks like it isn't accounted for yet.

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  33. Triple H also used to say that Flair was washed up and needed to hang it up when he was still in WCW.

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  34. HowmuchdoesthisguyweighMarch 26, 2013 at 9:53 PM

    I agree. Won't stop HHH from trying.

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  35. I love how Bret is totally no selling it while Dusty is raising his hand.

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  36. One thing that always bothered me was him not losing the title to Jeff Hardy in 2008, but instead losing the title to Edge who then lost it to Hardy.

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  37. I didn't see anything about not being able to duplicate.


    1.27.

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  38. See also: Rhodes, Dusty

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  39. And yet that character is still around in 2013...

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  40. At the same time, letting HBK win the inagural EC match was an...interesting choice.

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  41. or, besides that: family.

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  42. Looks like 1.11 is still left. I'll take it!

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  43. Of course, sorry about that. This list has been like the Lex Luger tour bus through various threads and I forget that not everyone saw the original thread. It's sort of a contest and we're rallying for the winner to get a Scott rant.

    Unless of course Scott wins and then I suppose he'll have the right to force all of us to watch Heroes of Wrestling.

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  44. The Fuj has the lock on that one. A second preference?

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  45. Vince is a caricature now of the original Mr. McMahon act. There is no logic to any of his interactions anymore and the character ceased to truly exist after wcw folded.

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  46. The Eugene debacle? You've brought this up several times in the past 10 years but I don't remember it that way. Can you elaborate?

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  47. HHH could never duplicate the Mr. McMahon character because it was sniveling boss character who you knew couldn't hold his own, so you knew if Austin could only get his hands on him, McMahon would be DONE. But McMahon kept throwing obstacles in Austin's way, prolonging the chase, and making the audience want him to get his hands on McMahon even more.


    Of course, the Mr. McMahon character would eventually develop into a capable enough fighter to hold his own in a match, but he was still never presented as someone who was a threat in a match against anybody except his own children. He still needed tons of smoke and mirrors to get the advantage against actual wrestlers.

    For HHH, it'll be hard to come across as a helpless guy with no clue how to defend himself when he's a thirteen-time former world champion with eleven different nicknames.

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  48. He beat up a retard.

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  49. Jarrett, J E Double F.

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  50. There should be a tiebreaker of sorts. Maybe have everyone predict the match order, and if two people who predicted the same correct buyrate, then the winner is whoever got the match order the closest?

    Or maybe predict Scott's star ratings for the top three matches?

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  51. TheRealCitizenSnipsMarch 26, 2013 at 10:31 PM

    Oh dear god, Bret looks so OLD. He's like someone's 80 year old grandma patiently waiting for her tea.
    It's a sad thing to be the least fit looking guy at a table with Dusty Rhodes and Mick Foley :(

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  52. Wasn't there a backstage war with Undertaker and HHH too, though? I thought that was the main reason Taker went to Smackdown, so he could get away from HHH.

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  53. The Fuj is listed as "1.1 million." Doesn't that translate to 1.10? I'll take whichever of those he doesn't have.

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  54. Exactly. He's like that great sitcom character that stopped making sense after season 5...yet the show is sitll going "strong" in season 9.

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  55. Nope, you're right, just read yours as 1.1.

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  56. I thought it was along the lines of Eugene was getting too over on his own, and once he feuded with HHH, his heat magically disappeared.

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  57. I'll take 959k

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  58. I predict that someone somewhere will buy WM.


    I WIN!!!

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  59. This is a reference I constantly see but have never heard the full story. What did JBL do? I heard something vague about shampoo bottles in the shower but not sure if that was true or just scuttlebut.

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  60. He threatened to rape (I believe) Brian Christopher in the shower. Not sure if it was a rib (i.e., designed to be a joke more than anything) or if JBL was legit pissed at him and wanted to scare him.

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  61. The Eugene debacle was more entertaining than the Denver debacle.

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  62. Wow. Seems a weird choice of guy to go after (not that it would be okay regardless) considering he's Jerry Lawler's son. You woulda thought he'd receive some punishment for that. Backstage wrestling stories are endlessly fascinating - and oftentimes gross, haha.

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  63. I always heard it was Duke Droese because he was known to GHB women while out on the town.

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  64. Would JBL have had the... uh, clout, I guess, to do that at that time, though? He was brand new in WWE himself.

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  65. I'm not ordering it and probably won't see it for a while, so you'll be waiting a long time for those ratings.

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  66. It really is kind of a shame that Dusty wrestled for more years bladed heavily, ate like a pregnant hippo, is 12 years older and STILL looks better than Bret Hart. Hell.. Dusty even looks better than Lex Luger!! If you had told me that Dusty Rhodes would outlive Savage, Hennig, & Benoit back in the 90's, I'd had given you a bionic elbow!!

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  67. That's what I always thought too. Maybe that's what got him his clout, at least with the boys. Every lockerroom needs an enforcer.

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  68. Well I mean, both Bret and Lex suffered strokes. That kinda throws everything else out the window.

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  69. Yes, but they both had health problems.accidents related to either exercise or weight lifting.. Dusty has probably never walked over 150 feet in his life and still looks better than both of them.

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  70. We'll be waiting a long time for the buyrate.


    (On that note, I hope someone has this thread bookmarked.)

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  71. Basically, the Austin/McMahon matches except Vince's role is done by someone who knows how to work.

    Sounds good to me.

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  72. Not as far as I remember. However, Taker could work a lighter schedule on Smackdown and the way it worked out was that there was a locker room leader on each show.

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  73. It would have been a nice moment for Hardy to beat Triple H one on one for the title but I thought they did a great job of making Hardy look like a near equal to Triple H. He beat him at Armageddon 07, And their 2 matches in late 08 were really close. Didn't Jeff also kick out of the Pedigree at one point which is basically makes you a god in WWE lore.

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  74. I think it worked too because if you look at how Raw and Smackdown were positioned it was a veteran like Triple H at the top whereas SmackDown was Brock at the top surrounded with verterans like Taker and the SmackDown Six.

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  75. Ah, the glory days of Smackdown. What a year it was.

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  76. I'll go 1.15 as a conservative estimate. Dunno if the shoddy booking leading into the event will turn people off or not.

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  77. I agree with your overall point, but I actually think Lex looks good and pretty healthy actually. Not inflatable.

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  78. I've got it all saved on a file on my computer.

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  79. I'm so over like rover on this blog!

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  80. I love how everybody wants to jump on the 1.1x bandwagon to spite
    me... when it really means you think im on the right track.



    Just go ahead and rename this place "Scott's Blog of Fuj"


    ...I like that...


    Nice ring to it.

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  81. Flair proved him wrong.

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  82. I'm hoping we get HHH/Rock at Summerslam.

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  83. HowmuchdoesthisguyweighMarch 27, 2013 at 6:03 AM

    Except that nothing can touch McMahon vs Austin and my point was, in ten years I fear for how bad triple h would make a new star look. I am not a HHH hater but if he recreated McMahon vs Austin (like he created a horseman'esque faction, Evolution), there is no evidence that he would use it to truly establish a new "guy". McMahon did everything in his power to keep Austin THE GUY. Can you picture HHH getting hit with a bedpan or pissing his pants?........ Wait a second

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  84. It's filling up here, so I'll take 1.12 and if that's gone then round me up to whatever.

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  85. See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization

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  86. I think a stroke trumps all that though. Another factor is the hair. Lex's scalp has thinned out a ton and Bret's is gray and nappy while Dusty's looks the same as it did in '94. Same thing happened to Flair. He looked the same from his first WWF run through '98 or '99, but he aged 10-15 years once he got plugs (or whatever he had done that made it look like shit).

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  87. Austin publically trashed HHH in a Raw Magazine interview after he returned from the infamous "took his ball and went home" incident. He talked about how "some guys like to talk about the Cyclical Nature of the Business, but that's easy to say when you're twenty pounds overweight and putting on crappy matches" or something- it was a clear jab aimed at Hunter, though he never mentioned him by name.

    Though I can imagine neither guy really cared as much about HHH since they both became millionaires and legends ANYWAYS. It'd make more sense for guys who got screwed by Hunter to be pissed at him.

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  88. I want 1.26!

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  89. Am I the only one who thinks that the whole brand extension was made, so that Triple H could get RAW for himself? Rock was on SD, Undertaker was on SD, Kurt Angle was on SD, Brock Lesnar was on SD... even Hulk Hogan was on Smackdown. How could the Undertaker be backstage against HHH, when they were not in the same roster? They placed all potential new stars and old stars on the second rated show, while HHH could have his reign supreme on RAW.

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  90. Overall Flair had a pretty stellar run of hair maintenance, making even the likes of Kevin Nash envious.



    It really only looked bad when he did the buzzed look in 2001 and then up until 2003 when it rapidly started to thin out and he started going for the slicked back look.

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  91. The Rock returned in a one-off appearance to help Eugene, and instead of looking like a demotion for the Rock, it ended with him getting Eugene insanely over with the crowd. So in typical 03-05 fashion, they immediately had HHH squash him, which is what they did to every face who got any semblance of a crowd reaction. Then Vince and HHH had the balls to tell the locker room they needed to get themselves over.

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  92. Michael Scott, Homer Simpson, Flanders, Peter Griffin, the entire premise of MASH, Jenna from 30 Rock, Kramer from Seinfeld, the list goes on. Mr. McMahon is just as bad or worse than all of them at this point. Probably b/c he has a hand in the writing so there's little oversight to rein his character in.

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  93. Yeah, doing something massive like splitting the show was done just for HHH.

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  94. Edge mentioned in his book that JBL snuck into the shower with him and soaped his ass. Kind of an initiation.

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  95. The gray hair sure isn't helping, guy needs to pick up a box of Just For Men.

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  96. I tried to review Heroes of Wrestling from the blog, but I just couldn't sit through it. What a terrible show.

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  97. The price increase makes me feel even more confident about my 900k pick.

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  98. Sounds like a great idea, but Cena has to win this one clean as a sheet.

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  99. Doubtful. Splitting the brands was done to water the money tree.

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  100. Getting off topic, but looking back on the brand extension 11 years later, it was such a brilliant idea and it's a shame we don't have it anymore.

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  101. I'm staying with 1.17 mil, but this is truly one of those shows where you don't have a clue how it's going to turn out buyrate-wise, this is basically the wrestling equivalent of a Will Ferrell movie in the sense that you don't know until it comes out if it's going to be a hit or a bomb.

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  102. Edge wrote about it in his book. JBL soaped up his ass basically. I've read other stories about JBL learning gancho, or goucho, or something like that from his time in Japan... and then using that on some guys.

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  103. As someone who has seen that godawful atrocity in its entirety, I can sympathize with you. Just go straight to the last 30 minutes since that's the only reason anyone remembers this show in the first place.

    The rest of the show however is like the part in that White Stripes album where Meg sings: Avoid like the plague, you will be a better person for it.

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  104. It worked well for a few years at most. They totally killed it by having a draft every year though and constantly switching the rosters.

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  105. HHH made Vince screw Bret. He was together with the Steph. He was subtle but effective.

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  106. The ratings and buyrates went down in 2002 like in WCW 99 and the only one who had a profit was HHH who had RAW for him and his buddies until John Cena came in 2005.

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  107. Yeah this is a tough one this year, a lot of factors that could push it either way.

    The ratings leading up to the show have been kind of wacky too as far as the WM buyrate over the last few years. Last year, the four RAWs leading up to the show did 3.25/3.27/3.09/3.04 (vs a 3.0 for the year) and the show did the huge number. The year before they did 3.92/3.64/3.3/3.81 (vs a 3.31 average for the year) and did a great number as well, but then in 2010 they did 3.7/3.4/3.7/3.24 (vs a 3.28 average for the year) and did 885k.

    So in other words, last year during WrestleMania season they were only up 0.16 over their normal average for the year and popped a huge number. In 2011 they were up 0.36, and in 2010 they were up 0.23.



    I'd really point my finger at Rock and the casual audience he probably brought in for his big match and I don't really see it happening again this year.

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  108. Well, let me amend it: it was a brilliant idea hampered by mostly poor execution.

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  109. Off-topic, but WWE's new head writer is a Daytime Emmy award winner and has written for "Guiding Light," "All My Children," "As the World Turns" and "General Hospital."

    Props to WWE for finding writers who know how to cater to their demographic, which is women over 54.

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  110. "Mmm... blog of fudge..."

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  111. Sounds like my mom might want to watch soon.

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  112. I actually saw it live so I've seen the whole thing, but after the 3rd time falling asleep trying watch it again I just gave up.

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  113. I get that part, but when WWE stops thinking of itself as a "male soap opera" (whatever that is) then they don't have to worry about such things.

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  114. i dont know man. i mean, the guy runs the company now and he's still jealous of the Rock and Stone Cold. we will see what he does with the WWE under his direction of course but insecurity isn't a positive trait to have.

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  115. Irrespective of how they view themselves the writers have to be able to put out roughly six hours of new content a week. I would prefer that the WWE not script promos so heavily but if you're going to you want someone who has experience putting out that much content on a regular basis.

    Again, if you want someone who has experience creating several hours of new content a week with no long hiatus your choice is soap opera writers or late night writers.

    There is no reason why you can't find a soap opera writer who is a wrestling fan.

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  116. I'd love to see the double talk spewing out of that account, like how the Divas division is an example of empowering women, while they dress them in bikinis and take away their last names.

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  117. It actually doesn't really tweet that much about what happens on screen. It's mostly just bullshit about Be a Star and corporate stuff. It also seems like they pay women to tweet about them.

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  118. I'm not really arguing with you; I agree that this is what they have to do because of how their product is produced. I'm just saying that if they understood their proper place, they wouldn't need someone that comes from that background. They would hire three or four guys to provide an outline of each show with the necessary bulletpoints.

    And I have no doubt that there is a section of soap opera writers that are also wrestling fans, but if I were running a wrestling company I'd hire someone that understands the business. If HBO were developing a crime drama, we'd laugh if they hired Seth Meyers. Conversely, we'd laugh if CBS was looking to hire David Simon to write a comedy.



    At the end of the day it could be completely moot who they bring on as the head writer because the show is usually without any direction.

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  119. If history is different, who do you think benefits most from HHH putting them over strong (rather than squashing their momentum)? Booker T., Rob Van Dam, or other?

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  120. Yeah, but the only reason he was moved to Raw was because not only did Austin leave, but the nWo was disbanded after Nash tore his quad, and Rock pretty much was dwindling down as well.

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  121. Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved the idea at the beginning, and until about 2005 the shows felt completely different from one another. And the best part? Viewers had a choice; you could watch either Raw, Smackdown, or both.


    Up until recently they still tried to act like there was a brand split, despite practically everyone being on both shows, with the exception of Cena on Smackdown. Now all Smackdown does is recap Raw with a couple of matches sprinkled in.

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  122. I don't think it would have helped RVD too much, HHH had nothing to do with him getting arrested and suspended.

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  123. I think Taker realized long ago that WWE basically owns him. If he every went anywhere else, he loses the Undertaker gimmick and becomes worthless.

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  124. This is the interwebs, we use "irregardless."

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  125. Booker would have been made had he beat Triple H at Mania, even if the title reign was only for a month.

    Regardless, him sitting with Bret, Dusty, and Foley did not seem odd to me at all. In fact, I forgot that he feuded with both the Rock and John Cena.

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  126. RVD in 02, yes it would have helped a lot. He was suspended after being arrested in 2006.

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  127. You're right. I'm kind of hazy when it comes to the early-mid 2000s and often get my dates mixed up.

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  128. Eh, to be fair, the American Badass thing showed that Undertaker CAN play an entirely different character and remain over. Don't get me wrong, the Undertaker name and the character he currently plays is immensely important, but he's far from useless.

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  129. Considering he was initially part of the Smackdown roster (while Undetaker and Brock were initially part of the Raw roster -- not to mention Austin), I'm thinking no.

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  130. Actually, I think it may be John Cena. Considering the bland character he was initially given, I'm not convinced he would've been given the opportunity to get exposure and grow if it weren't for the brand extension.

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  131. They should get the Days of Our Lives writer that made Marlena the devil, real sick shit.

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  132. I think Jericho got hurt a great deal due to Triple H's reign on top. Triple H beat Jericho and Jericho spent much of 2002 teaming with Christian and feuding with Flair. Jericho and Christian were a fun team but it was a definite step down. And then in 2003 after his HBK feud he was basically the guy to make Goldberg look good for when Triple H beat him in the chamber. And the rest of 2003 I can't even remember what Jericho did.

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  133. I remember being confused as to why Christian and John Cena didn't feud. It seemed like that's what they had been building. They had done a couple things with them throughout the year despite being on separate shows. I enjoyed the Jericho feud but it seemed like afterwards Christian would have made perfect sense. But they brought over Angle and that feud never really clicked.

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  134. I'm not saying that Triple H is a better businessman than Vince or that he can make a star look greater than he could. Triple H isn't even in the same capacity yet. Time will tell, but all evidence has pointed to the fact that Hunter's a wrestling purist and traditionalist, and I think the company needs at least one person like that.

    But you "fear" for how bad Triple H would make a new star look? Come on now. Jericho benefited greatly in 2000, and Benoit would have if his big injury didn't halt the momentum. Batista and Orton had the biggest head starts to their careers than anyone.

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  135. only 825 people are gonna buy the show?


    make up your mind!!!


    j/k

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  136. That was James Reilly, and he died a few years ago.

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