I'm going to ask you some questions about Wrestlemania. I don't want you to think about the question, just answer with the first thought that pops into your head.
Most overrated match in WM history:
Most overrated match in WM history:
Shawn v. Bret Iron Man
Most underrated match in WM history:
Diesel v. Michaels, or maybe the first Austin-Rock main event.
Greatest performer in WM history:
Shawn Michaels
Best performance in WM history:
The first Undertaker-Shawn match. His performance against Razor might be a better carry job, but Shawn turned that match into a stone CLASSIC. .
Best entrance in WM history:
Shawn's entrance there.
Best match in WM history:
Gonna have to go Undertaker-Shawn again because I was having a heart attack watching at a time when I had little interest in the product.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
Most underrated match in WM history:
Diesel v. Michaels, or maybe the first Austin-Rock main event.
Greatest performer in WM history:
Shawn Michaels
Best performance in WM history:
The first Undertaker-Shawn match. His performance against Razor might be a better carry job, but Shawn turned that match into a stone CLASSIC. .
Best entrance in WM history:
Shawn's entrance there.
Best match in WM history:
Gonna have to go Undertaker-Shawn again because I was having a heart attack watching at a time when I had little interest in the product.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
LT-Bigelow, obviously.
Best WM Main Event:
Best WM Main Event:
Austin-Rock 2001.
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
Brock-HHH.
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
Brock-HHH.
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
Shield-3 Dudes With Attitudes.
Got to love the news from the last 24 hours that Stephanie will be in HHH's corner for the Brock match. Because, you know, she's a face. What a blowjob match this is shaping up to be for the Mcmahon-Levesques.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes to the 2001 Rock/Austin main evnt. Shit was huge..
I always thought that Morrison, and now Ziggler, should get a Shawn at WM10 moment one of these years - 20 minute singles match, go make yourself a star with all the focus on you. Steal the show if you can, sink or swim, etc.
ReplyDeleteMaybe, hopefully, so she can be there for his last match - which is ridiculous because even if he thinks he's ready to retire, a guy who loves THIS BUISNESS, who stays in shape, can still go, and will be at every show isn't retiring for good at this age.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree on WM 15 Austin-Rock being underrated. The ending was never really in doubt but they both worked their asses off.
ReplyDeleteOh and HBK-Taker 1 is likely in my top 3 of all time. The Tombstone kick out and Taker's facials was when that match kicked into a 6th gear and went from **** to all time classic
Didn't you rate the HBK v. Bret match ****3/4?
ReplyDeleteAlso, give it a more intense storyline, maybe a title or other high sakes, and don't do rematches soon after, and HBK-Angle could have been a best WM match ever - it's still great but historically it didn't mean much.
ReplyDeleteTo most of us here, yes, she's the HEEL among heels (sorry Dolph.).
ReplyDeleteBut to the average fan, she's HHH's wife, and hasn't been a serious heel since... WM18/aftermath? Even during the Summer of Punk, she wasn't a heel per se, just another target for Punk.
Maybe she turns heel, aligns with Lesnar and begins the McMahon-Lesnar era?
ReplyDeleteI could see Henry getting some crowd love too.
ReplyDeleteAnd going back to Umaga-Batista, the crowd's Oo-oo-oo-ma-ga chant is one of my favorite ever.
I can see Punk-Undertaker being this year's 'Most Likely to Disappoint'. Taker and Punk are both banged up. And the build has been lackluster - I get the sense Brock-HHH is being set up as the second biggest fight on the card.
ReplyDeleteThis is arguably the least "important" match Taker has had at Mania since Henry at 22. I see a solid, unspectacular 15 minute match, a couple of false finishes and a tombstone.
Most overrated match in WM history:
ReplyDeleteUT-HHH, WM 27
Most underrated match in WM history:
Bret - Yoko, WM 10.... runner-up, UT-Batista
Greatest performer in WM history:
Michaels... or Hogan, actually.
Best performance in WM history:
Bret, WM 10: wrestling two matches in one night, built from two different storylines, against two very different opponents.
Best entrance in WM history:
Hogan, WM 3.
Best match in WM history:
Savage-Steamboat, still.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
E/C-Dudleyz-Hardyz, TLC: So much more than it could have been.
Best WM Main Event:
Hogan-Savage
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
The Shield match
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
UT-Punk
I think Austin-Rock is forgotten because of how AWFUL that show was. What is the best WM? I still say 17.
ReplyDeleteObviously it's a shame when anybody dies young, but it really SUCKED when Umaga died.
ReplyDeleteI could see that. But Henry is on a roll and Ryback, if nothing else, seems like he'd put in a great effort to make it as good as possible.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with a lot of your points. Especially HHH-Undertaker and Bret-Owen (the finish was just stunning since no one thought Owen had a chance).
ReplyDeleteDoes Warrior's return at WM8 count as an entrance? Because that was out of nowhere. Makes you kind of miss the days before the internet spoiling everything. Although Jericho's return at RR this year was a nice surprise no one really caught.
I just don't want Ryback going over. Mark has his monster vibe going and losing so soon after his return would kinda suck (although I bet Mark would be fine after in terms of overness).
ReplyDeleteYeah, man. He was one of my favourites at the time. Big bad ass who could have good matches with the right guy.
ReplyDeleteThe first HBK-Taker is the better match but man, that jumping tombstone in the second was awesome.
ReplyDeleteTotally. Give them a ladder match over the IC title or something.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand your EC/Dudleyz/Hardyz choice. The teams were having great matches together for a long time. It was almost a given the TLC match was going to be great as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to think that Shawn/UT from WM25 is becoming a little overrated. It was a great match but for me, it doesn't even crack the top 5 Shawn matches of all-time. And as for Wrestlemania matches, I'd put Bret/Austin, Savage/Steamboat, Austin/Rock II, and maybe even the Benoit/HBK/HHH three-way ahead of it.
ReplyDeleteI hate that three-way hug at the end, too. Just seems so contrived.
ReplyDeleteWho underrates Bret/Austin? It's widely regarded as a top-five (and maybe THE) best match in Mania history
ReplyDeleteI hate how Taker took SOOOO long getting up and leaving the ring at the end. It went on forever and you could have probably put another match in there.
ReplyDeleteI was just contemplating this as my most overrated match. I agree with the four matches you put ahead of it, and would add Bret-Owen too.
ReplyDeleteRanking the HBK Mania matches...
ReplyDelete17. Rockers/Orient Express, WM6
16. HBK/Tito, WM8
15. HBK/Tatanka, WM 9
14. Rockers/Faces Of Fear, WM7
13. Rockers/Twin Towers, WM5
12. HBK/Vince, WM22
11. HBK/Austin, WM14
10. HBK/Flair, WM24
9. HBK/Bret, WM12
8. HBK/Diesel, WM11
7. HBK/Cena, WM23
6. HBK/Jericho, WM19
5. HBK/Razor, WM10
4. HBK/Undertaker, WM26
3. HBK/Triple H/Benoit, WM20
2. HBK/Angle, WM21
1. HBK/Undertaker, WM25
The top ten, I'd argue, is comparable to the overall Wrestlemania "non-HBK" matches. This is an insane body of work for one guy and it's interesting to note that Michaels lost the large majority of these matches. Michaels truly is Mr. Wrestlemania
I think that's one of the most overrated WM matches.
ReplyDeleteI hate everything about that match.
ReplyDeleteThey've got 4 hours to fill. I think they'll get a solid 16-20 minutes which is plenty of time.
ReplyDeleteMaybe so. I find a lot of ladder matches to be predictable spot-fests. This one wasn't. What set apart wasn't just the ringwork, but the surprise entrants for each team. It's still really, really fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteBret Owen is technically perfect but lacks the heat, and the suspense , of Shawn/Taker
ReplyDeleteI have no earthly clue what South Park says about ziplines. And whatever it is, I'm sure its condescending and negative without having a strong viewpoint toward anything else.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history:
ReplyDeleteShawn v. Bret Iron Man (agreed)
Most underrated match in WM history:
Slaughter vs. Hogan
Greatest performer in WM history:
Shawn Michaels
Best performance in WM history:
Austin, WM13 .
Best entrance in WM history:
Undertaker circa 1999
Best match in WM history:
Three Way Ladder Match, WM2000
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
Bart Gunn vs. Dr. Death
Best WM Main Event:
Austin/Rock
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
Brock-HHH.
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
Ryback/Henry
Uh, everybody knew about Jericho. Cena would've been a better example.
ReplyDeleteMan, I looked at that and thought Cena at 23 was low, and then looking at the rest of the list I realized it wasn't, because everything else was amazing. Hard to argue against Michaels being the GOAT.
ReplyDeleteNope. It's 3. Easily.
ReplyDeleteI got down voted when I complained about Rock - Austin II being too low on that Wrestlemania match list. Scott has it as the best main event in Wrestlemania history. That was an amazing battle and in many ways the end of the Attitude Era, and what a fitting end.
ReplyDeleteUndertaker's mustache-less goatee was super evil looking, Amish Taker my ass.
ReplyDeleteHighly disagree with the Hart-Yoko match from WM10 being underrated. It was a colossal disappointment (weren't there multiple "nerve holds" in the match?) compared to the energy Yoko brought to WM9. A very plodding match with a bad anti-climatic finish (really? Yoko is just going to fall and Bret pins him? okay...). However, the Hart-Yoko match from WM9 could be considered highly underrated. It was a damn near miraculous performance by Bret. And if Bret is to be believed, they had a few tricks up their sleeve still until Yoko wanted to "go home" early and start the planned finish.
ReplyDeleteReally? I thought Jericho was a HUGE surprise.
ReplyDeleteI knew about Cena! 8 P
But that's what makes it so great! No one thought Owen had a chance and when he won, it stunned an entire arena into silence.
ReplyDeleteBart Gunn vs. Dr. Death?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember the WM9 match and was surprised at how well-paced it was. Yoko had been slaughtering dudes and Bret made it seem like he could win. One thing I always thought that Bret was unappreciated for was how he could make it seem like a smaller guy could beat a giant believably by being smarter. Shawn couldn't do it because usually he would get thrown around and then get the superkick as a hail mary. A lucky punch sort of finish.
ReplyDeleteMost underrated: Austin-Rock III or Jericho-Michaels from WM19. Brilliant storytelling with both matches. Both are 4+ stars in my opinion. Both are overshadowed by performances from the combatants in other years. Austin-Rock III featured the three rock bottoms that was kind of a precursor to Flair-Michaels, Taker-Michaels (26), and Taker-HHH (28) where one guy just has to beat the opponent into submission. Jericho-Michaels had a 3-4 month build and was a great master vs. student storyline, capped off with the awesome post-match antics by Jericho.
ReplyDeleteBest match? I don't think you could go wrong with Savage-Steamboat, Michaels-Angle, Hart-Hart, Hart-Austin, Rock-Austin, or Taker-Michaels. Oddly enough, you could probably throw in two Warrior matches (WM 6 and 7) in there if we're just considering sportz entertainmentz aspects.
Yeah, man. And not just Mania...one of the best matches of all-time, too!
ReplyDeleteSadly, I doubt Rock has worked on his cardio with the pub he's doing for GI Joe and such. Wrestling's a different animal as you only get conditioning from actually being in the ring and getting in-shape that way. Doing time on the treadmill will help but not when you're going against top guys in ring-shape already.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history:
ReplyDeleteI'll go with HBK vs. Bret at WM XII also. I personally give it 4 stars and the more I think about it, it would've been MUCH better as a regular match, 25-35 minutes.
Most underrated match in WM history:
I'll go with HBK vs. Jericho from WM XIX
Greatest performer in WM history:
HBK without a doubt, my favorite wrestler of all time
Best performance in WM history:
HBK at WM XIV. With his back literally torn to pieces, he still went out there and had a very good match with Steve Austin (my #2 favorite wrestler of all time).
Best entrance in WM history:
HBK at WM XII
Best match in WM history:
HBK vs. Taker at WM 25
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS being good in the first place:
Hogan vs. Warrior at WM VI
Best WM Main Event:
Austin vs. Rock at WM X7
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
Taker vs. Punk
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
Brock vs. HHH
I thought he did also.
ReplyDeleteThe WM 10 match was a lot better; in part because Yoko was more seasoned. Re nerveholds: you're thinking of Yoko's match with Luger, earlier on the card. And that one does suck (although their Summerslam match was quite good.)
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Watched it again on Youtube. There was still too much laying around, choking on the ropes, and punchy-kicky offense for my taste. I'm still digging 9 better.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen her box? She's probably going to lay out Heyman.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated: Yeah, Bret-Shawn would be my pick too. As MrMaye said, it would have been much better as a regular 25-30 min match. HM: TLC2, HHH/Taker from last year.
ReplyDeleteMost underrated: HBK/Diesel.
Greatest performer: HBK.
Best performance: Again I'll agree with MrMaye and say HBK at WMXIV.
Best entrance: I'm going to come out of left field here and say Cena's Untouchables entrance at WMXXII
Best match: HHH/HBK/Benoit. HM: Bret/Austin, Bret/Owen, the first MITB.
Best match that should have sucked: LT/Bam Bam by a mile.
Best main: HHH/HBK/Benoit.
Best WMXXIX match: Believe in the Shield.
Surprise WMXXIX match: Call me crazy, but I think Henry/Ryback will be pretty good.
2012 Scott gave it ****, which I think is still to high.
ReplyDeleteThe moonsault into the tombstone counter made me jump off my couch and yell "no fuckin way!" I never say fuckin.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match: Bret vs. Owen. This match gets near universal ***** ratings and I just don't see it. I think it's a very good match. I just don't see a ***** classic.
ReplyDeleteMost underrated: Money in the Bank I. Just a shade behind TLC II and ahead of WM 2000. But rarely talked about with them.
Greatest performer: Duh.
Greatest performance: Shawn-Taker. They were ON.
Best Entrance: Undertaker's WrestleMania 14 entrance has always stuck with me. Druids, awesome cape, the feel. It's there.
Best match in WrestleMania history: Shawn/Triple H/Benoit. There were 5 or 6 matches I thought of to put here but none I've seen as many times as this one.
Best match that had no business being good: Bam Bam vs. LT. HM to Big Show/Floyd.
Best WrestleMania main event: Rock vs. Austin II. I know I said the triple threat is the best match, but as a main event this one is perfect(and a damn awesome match too) big match feel, awesome work, violence, finishers.
Match of the Night WrestleMania 29: Shield vs. Orton, Sheamus, Show.
Surprise match of the night: John Cena vs. The Rock.
Most Overrated: Undertaker vs HHH HiaC.
ReplyDeleteMost Underrated: Undertaker vs HHH WM X-Seven
Greatest Performer: Shawn Michaels
Best Performance: Undertaker vs Michaels WM XXV.
Best Entrance: HHH WM X-Seven
Best Match: Undertaker vs Michaels WM XXV.
Surprising Best Match: LT vs Bigelow
Best WM Main Event: Undertaker vs Michaels WM XXVI.
WM29 Match of the Night: Rock vs Cena
Surprise Match of WM29: Team Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston.
They didn't ask worst WrestleMania main event but I'm sure you know my answer to that one!
ReplyDeleteThat's what Bart Gunn calls Butterbean's right hook.
ReplyDeleteOverrated: HBK-Angle
ReplyDeleteUnderrated: Bret-Piper
Performer: HBK
Performance: Not going to pretend to know how much who was responsible for what.
Entrance: Austin @ WM 13
Match: Bret-Austin
No Business: Hogan-Warrior
Main Event: Benoit-HHH-HBK
WM 29: Shield-Sheamus/Orton/Show
Surprise: Hell No-Ziggler/Big E
That is a pretty crazy match collection Shawn has compiled. The top 5 is pretty much interchangeable because they are all ***** classics. I'd switch Shawn/Cena and Shawn/Jericho. I have them both near the same rating but Cena/Shawn is better IMO. And I'd switch the Rockers/Faces of Fear with Rockers/Twin Towers. His match with Faces of Fear is his first really good match at WrestleMania. Awesome match to get the show started.
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible for me to say 3 is the best WrestleMania. I wasn't of that era. But every time I've watched it I liked Savage/Steamboat, Hulk/Andre, and Piper/Adonis.
ReplyDeleteYep. And that's the best thing we can expect. If we expect that we aren't setting ourselves up to fail. Realistically that's what we can expect.
ReplyDeleteThat would mean Triple H got outsmarted. We can't have that.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that you can swap the first HBK/Taker match out with anything. If those other matches are five stars, then WM25 was five stars with a half moon.
ReplyDeleteSurprised Scott didn't pick HBK/Flair for most overrated; his whole reaction to it was "People think this is some sort of classic? Dafuq?"
ReplyDeleteBest match : HHH-HBK-Benoit
ReplyDeleteShawn vs. Taker is just mind blowingly great stuff. It really depends on the second you ask me whether Shawn-Taker I or Shawn/Benoit/HHH is the best.
ReplyDeleteI shamefully admit that I totally understand something else reading the first sentence.
ReplyDeleteI'm a purist. I can't allow a three way match at number one.
ReplyDeleteFrom a workrate standpoint, no. From an atmosphere standpoint, absolutely.
ReplyDeleteYeah it really depends on the moment I'm asked. One second it's Shawn-Taker, the next it's the 3 way.
ReplyDeleteThey are both banged up, and they have yet to have a good match together. It could indeed be the train wreck of the night...but probably won't, because both have a great ability to make the crowd care about what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteI gotta admit...I laughed.
ReplyDeletemaybe not MOST underrated, but at least very underrated: Batista vs. John Cena, Wrestlemania 26.
ReplyDeleteHbk Taker was so great watching. I don't even remember watching the final two matches at 25 and that's probably for the best
ReplyDeleteHaving had some time to think about it, I might actually say that WM26 Taker vs HBK was the most disappointing Wrestlemania match of all. Not because it was a bad match (I listed it as the best WM Main Event!), but because their first match set the bar SOOOO high that I had really unrealistic expectations for the match that it couldn't possibly reach.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was really that contrived
ReplyDeleteno, they wont.
ReplyDeletethey will get about 10.
16-20 will kill them both.
tlc 2... overrated.
ReplyDeleteedge/hardy spear spot. nothing else but bs
Ryback isn't getting much love from the generic, everyday crowds, so if history has taught us anything the Wrestlemania + New York crowd is going to slaughter him. In addition to that, Henry is on a roll and the crowd, at the very least, respects him.
ReplyDeleteIt depends on how much time Taker-Punk and Cena-Rock get plus how much fluff they add. If Taker-Punk goes 15 minutes and Cena-Rock goes 20 minutes the Shield-Super Friends could get 20 minutes.
ReplyDeleteThreadjack and would make for its own interesting discussion:
ReplyDeleteHogan now claims he wanted to work heel against Warrior for WM VI, with this wonderful nugget: " I really wanted to fuck him as a bad guy."
http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/278018/Hulk-Hogan-Said-He-Wanted-To-Be-A-Heel-Against-Ultimate-Warrior-At-Wrestlemania-VI.htm
Most overrated match = Austin/Savio. Neither of their matches (WM and the strap match the following month) were all that people have made them out to be.
ReplyDeleteI didn't reaize Austin/Savio was all that highly regarded. The highest I've seen it rated is as a good match.
ReplyDeleteSo that settles the Hogan is gay rumors once and for all.
ReplyDeleteI've so seen so many people (esp. Scott) talk about how it was so understated and yet was the darkhorse of the show, and that both it and the strap match were some of the most psychologically-sound matches and people really need to check them out.
ReplyDeleteSo I've seen it highly regarded enough to feel compelled to mention it, if that makes any sense (vs. mentioning something like Taker/HHH 1, which is more of a given as a choice).
That's exactly what I'm trying to do - lower my expectations. Punk has been pulling rabbits out of hats for a long time now, but most of us were disappointed by the Rock-Punk series (I certainly was), and I'm trying to mitigate how disappointed I feel when Punk only gets to kick out of ONE finishing move
ReplyDeleteMe either. I mean, I know the strap match gets a lot of love because it's one of the only strap matches that isn't terrible (Sting/Vader is the only other one I can think of), but I'm surprised anyone even remembers the WM one.
ReplyDeleteAgree. Both pros and I read somewhere that after Taker's developed a surprising respect for Punk after their first run together (funny considering how one-sided the feud seemed to most). Now that Punk's at a higher level I think Taker will go 50/50 with him. And THAT'LL be fun to watch, no matter the outcome
ReplyDeleteHOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE YAPPAPPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPI MATCH!!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm in the same boat. 26 was an awesome match but there was no topping 25.
ReplyDeleteFor me, it was the difference between a great match and a "magical" match, where you could tell 2 minutes in that everything is flowing perfectly in a way you can't plan for.
I put Eddy-Rey Havoc and Benoit-Angle RR in the latter category, for example. And that was 25 for me too.
I expect it to at least be better than the 2 Rock/Punk matches. At least it won't have an idiotic ending.
ReplyDeleteAustin-Savio strap was the kind of hard hitting, fast paced match that pre-injury Austin excelled at. I just watched the Austin-Bret match off Bret's new DVD and man, Austin could GO!
ReplyDeletei thought it was too short
ReplyDeleteHow do the folks interviewing Hogan keep a straight face when doing so? Especially the ones w/wrestling knowledge? And how do you think Hogan would react if someone just corrected him after one of his outrageous claims? I know it would be unprofessional but I'd love to see it.
ReplyDeleteI thought he called it Ambien?
ReplyDeletethen i go to the strapmaster jimmy hart and he gives me strap number 2!
ReplyDeleteMost disappointing potential Wrestlemania match that never happened: Chris Jericho vs Randy "The Ram" Robinson.
ReplyDeleteYeah! I love Ranma!
ReplyDeleteYappappa yappappa ii shan ten!
Hashagu koi wa ike no koi!
Ah, you say that now, but what about when Mark Henry, One Man Band, the Usos, Cody Rhodes and Damien Sandow crash the match, bury Taker alive and dump the contents of the urn, only for Taker to descend from the ceiling reincarnated as Marty Janetty?
ReplyDeleteThis thread has gotten me more excited for Mania than ANYTHING WWE has done this past month, btw
ReplyDeleteLike Razor Ramon?
ReplyDeleteIt was a huge surprise to me too. And most others as well, I believe.
ReplyDeleteIt's not unprofessional to correct someone you are interviewing.
ReplyDeleteIt can feel a little awkward if they've made a genuine mistake - but if someone is outright talking bullshit - its unprofessional not to counter that as you are letting down your audience.
Most Overrated: Savage-Warrior
ReplyDeleteMost Underrated: Diesel-Michaels
Greatest Performer: Shawn Michaels.
Greatest Performance: Against Austin at XIV.He was obviously in horrible pain and having great trouble moving, still had a very good match.
Best Entrance: Triple H at XVII.
Best Match: Hart-Austin.
Best Match that had no business etc.: Backlot Brawl.
Best Main Event: Austin-Rock 2.
I don't really care enough about this years event to speculate much. I liked Lesnar-HHH at SS so the rematch will probably be good too.
4 hours is a lot of time, but each of the past few Mania's I've wondered after they were over where all that time went.
ReplyDeleteI feel like a LOT of deserving matches have been shortchanged these past few years
Jericho was a surprise to me as well.
ReplyDeleteI think he meant 16-20 for Shield 6-man
ReplyDeleteyea u probably right. my bad
ReplyDeleteI like the Strap match a lot. But the WrestleMania match is pretty unremarkable. Solid, but unremarkable. Probably in the **1/2 range.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best big men ever, the street fight with HHH at Cyber Sunday is one of my favourite matches, at least of the last couple of years.
ReplyDeleteThere were a couple matches on that show that suffered from being too short. Batista/Cena and Rey/Punk are foremost in my mind.
ReplyDeleteYeah I think the Rock/Punk series is a primer for what Taker/Punk is going to be like and we should adjust our expectations accordingly. A banged up Punk vs. a banged up Undertaker with Punk a guy who I'm not sure fans will buy in the Undertaker-WM style match.
ReplyDeleteI think Punk vs. Cena MITB should go there too. Except the moment happened BEFORE the match. Once the video package cut out and they went back to the arena with one of the most THUNDEROUS chants I've ever heard of "CM PUNK" I knew that match was going to be magical.
ReplyDeleteI get what you mean. But for me their WrestleMania 26 match was different enough that I wasn't disappointed in the least. Their first one was more just going out there and having a hell of a match. The second one was different enough because it put emotion and story first.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure he's awake enough yet to think of a clever name for it.
ReplyDeleteHow would you define potential? Like it was rumored but fell through? Or both guys were under contract? Because if it's just both guys under contract Shawn vs. Rock is tops for me. I loved Jericho-Shawn and Austin-Rock at 19 but I'd sell both of those matches down the river for the chance to see Shawn vs. Rock.
ReplyDeleteMy personal favorite WrestleMania is 21 and I think it has a case for being one of the best. Rey-Eddie, Money in the Bank I, Orton-Taker, and Angle-Shawn to start the show. Then the JBL-Cena title switch while a sucky match is very important booking wise. Plus a decent Batista-Triple H match which was also important and had a great storyline coming in. Plus the cool Hogan moment and awesome trailers.
ReplyDeleteFuck I'm high.
ReplyDelete3 1/2 stars...maybe.
ReplyDelete9.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history:
ReplyDeletePick an Austin/Rock match.
Most underrated match in WM history:
Steiners/Headshrinkers
Greatest performer in WM history:
Shawn is so obvious, I'll just throw out number 2 on that list, Savage.
Best performance in WM history:
Pete Rose. How bout it?
Best entrance in WM history:
Undertaker at WM23
Best match in WM history:
I honestly can't pick between Angle/HBK, Savage/Warrior, and Shawn/Taker 1
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
Bret/Yoko from 9.
Best WM Main Event:
Hogan/Warrior
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
HHH/Brock
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
Swagger/ADR
In terms of underrated WM matches, I've always thought Piper-Adonis from III doesn't get enough credit. Certainly not the most underrated of all time but a pretty intense/emotional match
ReplyDeleteI'd say *** at most. There's just way too much non-action in that match (which isn't really the fault of the wrestlers), and both guys were acting like dickheads. I feel that not only did the Ironman stipulation negatively affect the match itself, but the card as a whole. A WM with only 5 matches? Fuck that noise.
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history:
ReplyDeleteBret vs. Shawn
Most underrated match in WM history:
The Rockers vs. The Twin Towers
Greatest performer in WM history:
Shawn Michaels
Best performance in WM history:
Bret and Austin at WM13. Come on, they pulled off a DOUBLE TURN that created arguably their most popular babyface ever.
Best entrance in WM history:
Bret Hart at the WMX main event for SELLING THE LEG INJURY.
Best match in WM history:
Austin vs. Hart - The influence it had on the business for the next several years is immeasurable.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
John Cena vs. Triple H (Trips stunk out the Main Event with Batista the year prior and the crowd was a shade away from getting violent.)
Best WM Main Event:
Benoit/Michaels/HHH
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
Punk/Taker
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
Rock/Cena (due to crowd revolt)
Agree with you on Rock/Austin, but I should point out that I'm not a fan of either guy and never have been. I just can't see Swagger/ADR being anything worthwhile though, I'll be shocked if that match gets more than 7 minutes or so.
ReplyDeleteI like both guys and think the matches are good, but I dunno, I'm just meh about them.
ReplyDelete"and think the matches are good, but I dunno, I'm just meh about them."
ReplyDeleteYeah, that about sums it up for me too.
I wish I could give this more votes
ReplyDeleteThat's probably the only WrestleMania that has eluded me, in terms of going out of my way to find it.
ReplyDeleteYou've never seen it? Hell of a show in my opinion. All the matches I mentioned plus the cool trailers and historical value of the two top stars being crowned.
ReplyDeleteEh, they did go an hour, and the ending was hot. I respect the match more than I like it.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't want to get into a "Bret sucks" thing again. But that match makes neither Shawn or Bret look good.
Sorry, I was referring to the Yappapi strap match b/w Flair and Hogan. :(
ReplyDelete??
ReplyDeleteI just felt like channeling Hogan and threatening to fuck someone like a bad guy. No offense to you!
ReplyDeleteI'm the little girl to your HBK's superkick.
ReplyDeleteOr something.
But are you going to make him humble?
ReplyDeleteThe fact that it went an hour is the problem. I just feel that an hour is way too long for a wrestling match (Rumble matches excluded), only match that went that long that I can stand watching is the HHH/Rock Ironman match, and even that's a chore to sit through.
ReplyDeleteI respect the fact they "wrestled" for an hour. I feel uncomfortable giving them below 3 for that. A baseline for their work. I don't give stars out purely for my enjoyment, there is a level of craftsmanship that I feel elevates it a certain amount.
ReplyDeleteI mean, let's look at Avatar, I thought the movie was boring. But the production values were at a level that I can't call it bad.
Me personally, I feel that hour long matches usually are put in place to gratify the ego of the wrestlers. You don't need that much time to have a great match. Ultimate creative freedom weakens the product. The more restrictions there are, the more you have to push yourself creatively.
I don't give out stars purely for enjoyment either (though how much I enjoyed a match plays a big part in how I rate it, hence the ****1/2 I gave the most recent Elgin/Strong match), but the fact that both guys were acting like total asshats negatively effected the match in a big way for me. I'd almost call the Survivor Series 92 (I think) match a better baseline just because at that point there was no heat between the two, even if Shawn wasn't the great worker he'd eventually become. Let's just split the difference and call it ***1/4.
ReplyDeleteNever saw Avatar. I'm just not a movie buff.
You're right about hour long matches only serving the purpose of stroking the egos of the guys involved. Worst example is those fucking horrible 3-ways they had in ECW that went Broadway. Fuck Shane Douglas!
Love the Hogan vs Slaughter pick.
ReplyDeleteI know. I was throwing in a random obscure reference. THAT'S WHAT I DO!
ReplyDeleteI know. I was just making a random obscure reference. THAT'S WHAT I DO.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of your last night, I just posted this in the most recent thread on the blog: Mark Henry might have suffered a knee injury at a house show. :(
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history: Taker vs. HHH - HIAC
ReplyDeleteMost underrated match in WM history: Trish vs. Jazz vs. Victoria at WrestleMania 19. Those chicks schooled it and got no credit.
Greatest performer in WM history: Shawn Michaels
Best performance in WM history: John Cena at WM28. Totally did wonders, carrying Rock through his his first match in almost 9 years. Didn't get enough credit.
Best entrance in WM history: Cena's drumline entrance at 24.
Best match in WM history: Chris Benoit vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place: Undertaker vs. A-Train/Big Show at 19.
Best WM Main Event: Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior at 6.
What match will win match of the night at WM 29: Brock-HHH.
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29: The Rock vs. John Cena.
I didn't dig Elgin/Strong, simply because I find Strong immensely overrated as a worker and the constant blowjob Elgin gets from the announce team really pisses me off. I'd go 3 3/4 for that match. The workrate was pretty solid, but I hate how RoH uses finishers.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, that PPV in general was pretty bleh. Steen hit maybe 6 moves that entire match. Sadly enough the best performance of the night was probably by Davey Richards...
You didn't miss much by avoiding Avatar. If you've seen Dances With Wolves or Ferngully, you've see Avatar.
Ugh on Shane. I would ask what liar told him that he was a top-level worker, but I think we all know who that was.
Huh?
ReplyDeleteForgot about how much Shawn was dying at 14. Wow.
ReplyDeleteThey should've had Luger/Yoko immediately follow Bret/Owen on the WM10 card. Kayfabe-wise, it made no sense for Bret to get 150 minutes of rest before the next match while Luger/Yoko would've had not even an hour to rest and prep for Hart. Real-world wise, Yoko definitely needed more time to rest for that second match since he looked very gassed.
ReplyDeleteHistorically overlooked to a point, yes, but it's universally regarded as a great match. Not sure how it's "underrated" by the definition of the word.
ReplyDeleteIf you could magically replace Cena/JBL and Batista/HHH from Wrestlemania 21 with Cena/JBL I Quit and Batista/HHH from Backlash, then WM21 probably goes down as the best Mania of all time. Hell, just for fun, magically insert a Trish/Lita match instead of Trish squashing Christy Hemme.
ReplyDeleteI've never seen the Triple H/Batista Backlash match but Cena/JBL SHOULD have been a crazy hardcore overbooked mess. Run ins, shenanigans, the whole nine yards.
ReplyDeleteWith the benefit of hindsight, a 30min iron man might have worked better.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great pick of Shawn as 'best performance' for WM14. He could barely move by the latter stages of that match but gutted it out and made Austin look like a star. One wonders if he hadn't had that match, if his back wouldn't have been messed up for the next four years.
ReplyDeleteIt's a superficial distinction and totally arbitrary but Hogan vs. Warrior is a better main event.
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that several very good matches from recent Manias are "underrated" since our tastes have changed. For instance, something like Edge/Jericho from WM26 or the Money in the Bank matches were all just regarded as "well, both these guys are good and this was a good match, so it was what I expected," or "well, that was an entertaining spotfest, ***1/2 stars," since our standards have gotten higher for modern wrestling.
ReplyDeleteAny modern WM destroys almost all of the older ones in terms of pure wrestling quality on the shows. WM26 by itself had more good matches than the first six Manias combined (except for WM3).
I still like the Iron Man Match, though the first half hour is basically superfluous (like the first ten minutes of a Japanese Junior match that goes 20-30 minutes). Well-wrestled, but superfluous, and it can be boring if you're not into reversals and junk. The final 10 minutes of the match are some of the best wrestling ever, so I still appreciate the match as a whole.
ReplyDeleteGod, Bret/Piper was incredible. Just all-out great ACTING by both guys, with Bret being the hungry rookie who got offended by Piper's infantilizing him, and Piper being the veteran who WANTS IT SO BADLY but just can't bring himself to cheat given his respect for the Hitman and the begging fans.
ReplyDeleteThe only guy to get a better match out of Yokozuna was Randy Savage- that RAW match they had was BRILLIANT, with Savage looking like he had it won several times. Savage was one of a kind.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the crowd wants Adonis to fucking DIE, and I'll be damned if Piper doesn't try to give 'em what they want.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to mention Heenan and Gorilla on commentary with Heenan begging Piper to use the bell. "What the hell, use the bell!"
ReplyDeleteIt really should have been, especially since JBL still had the Cabinet working for him. The only reason I can see for that not happening is that they didn't want to upstage Batista and Triple H. Otherwise, I can't see them saying "You know what, let's save the match that plays to your strengths for Judgment Day."
ReplyDeleteI think Austin gets overlooked as the greatest performer in WM history.
ReplyDeleteWM 12 vs Savio Vega 3.5 stars
WM 13 vs Bret Hart 5 stars
WM 14 vs HBK 4 stars
WM 15 vs the Rock 4.5 stars
WM 17 vs the Rock 5 stars
WM 18 vs Scott Hall 3 stars
WM 19 vs the Rock 4 stars
He didn't have the longevity of a Hogan or HBK but for how long his star shined the guy was money at Wrestlemania.
I could live with them going 20 minutes if 15 were Henry just yelling threatening things at Ryback while he caught his breath. In that case, bringing back the "If I charge for air, you better keep your bill paid" line would make sense.
ReplyDeleteI think Scott highly-rated it in one of his Scott Sez bits, but having seen it myself, I found it a bit forgettable. Solid due to Austin and some good workrate, but really just another brawl.
ReplyDeleteSavio could be a bit weird that way- he was really awful a lot of the time, but was at least a quick worker with some decent flying, which made him carry-able. He even had a REALLY good match with Goldust one time!
I see no way at all that TLC2 is overrated. Pure action from start to finish, probably the best spotfest ever.
ReplyDelete(Been really thinking about the Ryback/Henry match)
ReplyDeleteI hate to say it but I just do not see Henry getting the win
I don't see him winning, and I think the match'll be pretty bad as well.
ReplyDeleteBret-Piper is a perfect example of Bret's opinion that wrestling is a legitimate art. It's one of those matches that's responsible for my being completely nonplussed by Bret's egomania. With matches like that, I'm totally okay with his outsized opinion of himself. And that Bret got it out of Piper, who's not exactly renowned for his ring-work, is all the more impressive.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't see a difference between this match and, say, Shawn and Angle just trading neutered finishers in my most overrated match, I got nothing for you. We're just speaking a different wrestling-language.
In other words: if they didn't, someone should've come up to Bret after this match with tears in their eyes.
Great match, shite feud.
ReplyDeleteI'm dreading the match
ReplyDeleteI hated that Royal Rumble finish. Mr. McMahon has evolved into am awful character that needs to go away and Rock has been garbage this entire new run save the time he came back at Raw in 2011
ReplyDeleteI agree, and I've seen people rag on this match because yes it's not technically perfect and it drags in spots, and the ending seemed to come out of the blue, but knowing how injured both the guys were (remember Stone Cold was still suffering through his knee injury) and seeing the agonizing pain on HBK's face, I give total respect for that match.
ReplyDeleteI hated it too. Just a shit way to end a show that wasn't very good to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI've wondered that same thing.
ReplyDeleteI've seen some of the matches, not the whole show
ReplyDeleteRarely gets mentioned or brought up in smark circles or on WWE TV ever.
ReplyDeleteI think you are forgetting how much more went into the earlier feuds. Truly this is a lost art. For example Edge/Jericho can go out and have a 4 star match because they can, but it will have been the product of some lame feud "creative" came up with. Compare that to something like Savage-Steamboat where the feud was just fucking awesome and the match really meant something. That's the difference. Back in the day the feuds had more heat and meaning even in the cartoon days.
ReplyDeleteno way his 7 min match against a sloppy scott hall got 3 stars, although i do agree with you about savio vega. very underrated angle.
ReplyDeletewhich makes it all that much cooler when bret did that same spot with austin at 13 and went heel and cheated!
ReplyDeleteSeriously though. If Rock-HBK happened at 19, there would be no argument that 19 was better than 17.
ReplyDeleteDidn't like 19 but I think that had more with me really getting sick of wrestling
ReplyDeleteYup. I had always wanted to see that finish, and actually cheered when it happened. Greatest finish to a Wrestlemania match, right there
ReplyDeleteI can literally see that happening, Punk pins Taker is a shady manner and Vince restarts the match.
ReplyDeleteAnd most of it will go to musical performance, extra long Taker and Triple H entrances, and goofy backstage skits.
ReplyDeleteThere was no news about Jericho return.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess if I ask random Joe Schmo on the street, he'll say he knew it was happening even though he doesn't watch wrestling?
Angle/HBK needs more love. The feud was even cool with Angle beating up HBK after the Street Fight with Edge and clowning Jannety on Smackdown.
ReplyDeleteNot surprising you didn't know. You are a dumb motherfucking cunt after all.
ReplyDeleteCAPZ OPINION YO
ReplyDeleteMost overrated match in WM history:
EDGE VS JERICHO
Most underrated match in WM history:
WARRIOR VS MACHO MAN - DOESN'T GET ENOUGH PRAISE
Greatest performer in WM history:
SHAWN MICHAELS. NO QUESTION
Best performance in WM history:
HBK VS UT @ WM 25
Best entrance in WM history:
REALLY DUG CENA'S AND HHH'S CUSTOM ENTRANCES FOR MANIA 22. ANDRE AND HEENAN AT WM 3 WAS AWESOME TOO
Best match in WM history:
HBK VS. UNDERTAKER. BEST MATCH I EVER SEEN.
Best match at WM that had NO BUSINESS in being good in the first place:
MAYWEATHER VS BIG SHOW. I LIKED IT. PLUS HOGAN VS VINCE MCMAHON.
Best WM Main Event:
AUSTIN VS. ROCK MANIA 17
What match will win match of the night at WM 29:
BROCK VS HHH. AGREED KEITH
What could be the surprise match of the night at WM 29:
HELL NO VS BIG E SHOW OFF
Show me all the news articles claiming he was returning.
ReplyDeleteThey can go fuck themselves if that's the plan.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a bad idea actually, especially if Punk says "Fuck it" and gets himself counted out afterward.
ReplyDeleteMAJOR HEAT!
He pins Taker (shadily), gets counted out deliberately in the restarted match.
Yes. That women's match at 19 was probably the best women's match I've seen.
ReplyDeleteMmm...Rock was staying to put over Goldberg the next month. I see Rock winning but it could go either way.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the Alundra Blaze/Bull Nakano match from SummerSlam 94. It's like ***3/4, probably the best women's match ever on American soil.
ReplyDeleteSavage/Steamboat was the exception, but that's why I left out WM3. Look at something like WM5 for example. You had the hot Hogan/Savage angle on top but what else?, Demolition and the Powers of Pain continuing their long, bull feud? Warrior and Rude fighting over a posedown? Jake and Andre fighting because Andre was scared of snakes? Every other undercard bout was just thrown together to get guys onto the card. It was hardly a masterpiece of storytelling.
ReplyDeleteMy favourite bit is when Bret is "hurt", and Heenan declares "He's goldbricking!" drawing the usual disgust from Monsoon. Then Bret POPS UP AND NEARLY PINS RODDY, while Heenan is jumping up & down with glee because Bret did something so sneaky.
ReplyDeleteWould it be possible to push everything back a month or so? So you do Rock-HBK at WM, Rock-Austin at Backlash, then Rock-Goldberg at Judgement Day? Or somehow convince Austin and Rock stick around until Summerslam?
ReplyDeleteA lot of shuffling would have to be done if Rock goes over.
Jericho WAS a huge surprise. From what I remember, I dont even think Vince knew he was signing(which incidentally is probably the reason he is facing FanDANgo at WM).
ReplyDeleteNo way Rock agrees to have anything to do with HBK...I thought he hated him (he is a Bret guy) and wanted nothing to do with him after Montreal. I was under the impression that is why you never saw Rock/HBK interact (ever maybe?)
ReplyDelete