Scott,
With a couple years of time and perspective, how do you think the "Summer of Punk" should have played out? With the massive momentum of Punk's "pipebomb" promo and the classic win over Cena at MITB, where do you think it should have gone? Do you still have Del Rio cash in and let Punk chase for a while, impeded by corporate types like Laurinaitis and HHH? Do you keep the belt on him via hook & crook, with Punk outsmarting HHH's contenders until an eventual HHH-Punk showdown?
I think the booking was OK, but just not decompressed enough. They should have had Punk win the belt at MITB, take a few weeks off and send in videos from his house or Bermuda or wherever he was holding the belt hostage. Then they could strip him of the title and do the tournament at Summerslam with Mysterio winning, then Cena wins it from him at Night of Champions and the next night Punk comes back and he's all "Yo dog, that's my title, let's engage in professional wrestling action to settle this like men" and they can squeeze another three PPVs out of it. HHH and Nash can go jack each other off in the corner and sext each other or whatever the fuck that storyline was about and ADR can rot on Smackdown for all I care.
There you go.
I never got the "SummerSlam needed a main event" excuse. Rey vs Cena for the title is a pretty great main event. Especially for new fans. Plus, it was a fresh match up.
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe I was genuinely shocked but in a dissapointing way when Punk returned on Raw so quickly. They even started it well, they had Punk at White Sox games and Comic-Con doing viral stuff, but they just couldn't wait to blow their load and bring him back right away
ReplyDeleteQuite
ReplyDeletePlus you would avoid the whole rey being champ for an hour thing then having to defend against a fresh Cena which devalued the title at the same time the stuff with Punk made it seem more important than in years.
But Scott, you're saying that with the benefit of hindsight, it's not like anyone was saying that at the time....
ReplyDelete....
... Wait, everyone was saying that at the time.
Summer of Punk may have made Punk as a main eventer on the level of a Hart or Foley. It should have made him the next Austin
Another thing that hurt it is that HHH wasn't ready/willing to play the Vince role.
ReplyDeleteWith the way WWE has been of late, and the fact that Punk has disappeared, it is perfect timing for Summer of Punk 2013. Let him drop a pipe bomb on the current situation at the top because I think any long-term fan would be totally sick to their stomach with how WWE have reverted back to smiley happy John Cena overcoming the odds again. I've stopped watching Raw and judging from the ratings so have many others, a fresh motivated Punk could reinvigorate the most jaded fan I believe... I think Cena/Punk should headline Summerslam with Punk holding some form of ransom over the company again. Even if it only lasts a few months before going back to the Cena show at least give us devoted guys some happiness this Summer.
ReplyDeleteThe utmost unsatisfactory feature of the entire angle was CM Punk's character development (or lack thereof). The characteristic that made him so distinctive was his uniqueness. He was one of the few multifaceted people in WWE. He vocalized himself as a raged victim of WWE’s perspective. More importantly, he was articulating for a rather large fan base who could not. He was the anti-establishment of WWE, and he was someone who was fed up with WWE’s propaganda. He was the guy who didn’t fall for clichés and live by them. He was someone that was revolutionizing the way a babyface can conduct himself.
ReplyDeleteHe still is one of the best trash-talkers of all time, and what is so fascinating about him is that he hardly yells or screams in order to strengthen the promo. Instead, he does his promos in a subtle,calculating manner as he methodically justifies himself in a glorious, narrative manner. In fact, his is promos are so sophisticated that they could be examples of modern-day art insofar as how to articulate resentments in an ingenious manner. But now he does them as heel.
After he anti-climatically came back, his character slowly developed into another typical babyface. He wasn't one step of the curb, he wasn't winking at the audience, he was falling for the same tricks, and it eventually led to him portraying a sympathetic, poor me, babyface as he took on Jericho at Wrestlemania 28.
This. Rey/Cena was totally fresh and something of a dream match, given that I'm pretty sure they had never wrestled before their title bout on RAW. That was a terrific little 10-minute match, could've been a legit classic if it went 15-20 minutes in the Summerslam main event.
ReplyDeleteIt also would've given Rey an actual reign as WWE champion, even if it was just for a few weeks. Having his only WWE title reign be just 90 minutes long is kind of insulting. (And yeah, I know Andre was only champ for 90 seconds but still.)
I don't think CM Punk in the anti-WWE gimmick had longevity. He needed to transition into a traditional babyface, and while I think the angle could've been stretched out, the end result was going to be the same.
ReplyDeleteYour top babyface can't hate the product the fans are supposed to be watching. It...doesn't work. And while CM Punk's kayfabe-bending promos were really intriguing stuff. They pretty quickly ran out of steam. Sure the sentiment of "They held me back" is fascinating, the actual reasons for WHY they held you back don't exactly make for compelling television. Nobody really cares about Heyman/Vince politics and all that bullshit.
And as I've said many, many times. Babyfaces can't be whiners. And CM Punk was whining. An incredibly compelling whine, but it wasn't sustainable as a babyface, and that was the end result of the angle.
Sure he wasn't the smark superhero, shitting down Triple H's throat and bending Vince over, but he was the most believable top face WWE has had in a long time. And I for one was invested in his matches and seeing him win. So the angle worked for me and it made CM Punk my favorite wrestler of all time.
Did it work for you? That's...your call. But I think that it really wasn't going to be much better than what we got.
...still miffed about turning Punk heel, but hey, that's the business.
It really is remarkable that the whole Summer of Punk angle started out so hot, but only wound up leading to HHH vs. Kevin Nash.
ReplyDeleteIt's even worse to look at in hindsight, because from the looks of it, Rey's pretty much finished as any wrestler of consequence. That could have been his last hurrah in the main event.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Rey's days are numbered. I would bet money that this time next year he is winding down his career in TNA.
ReplyDeleteWWE was in a tough spot where they really couldn't have Punk be out too long, but I still think they rushed him back too quick. John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio--if built up big--could have easily main evented Summerslam that year instead of happening a few weeks after MITB on Raw. Then Punk can come back after Cena beats Rey at Summerslam and do their thing.
ReplyDeleteSo......Kevin Nash texted himself, if I remember correctly?
ReplyDeleteFuck the Cliq.
I upvoted you and everything, but CM Punk ain't Shakespeare.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash has bad cell service, too. He wasted $0.75 on those texts.
ReplyDeleteNo he is far more interesting!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your scenario is that Cena was "fired". So he can't be in the tournament, which means he probably can't be at Summerslam. Unless we have the classic Vince McMahon "YOU WANT A MATCH, PAL, YOU'LL FACE ME!!!! AND YOUR CAREER IS ON THE LINE!!!!!"
ReplyDeleteIs Cena vs. a 60 whatever year old man selling PPV's?
I think they could have gotten further with this angle if they didn't include the stupid "Cena, you win or you're FIREDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!" portion of the angle. Right then the tack-ons started and they never stopped. They couldn't have Cena and Punk off for a long time, so Cena was brought back in exactly one day later and Punk was brought back in 8, I think?
Long story short, they had a character that was kinda like 1998-99 Rock, in that fans listened to his promos, and had him transform into 2002 Rock in about a month and a half.
ReplyDeleteWhich means Hollywood Punk should be showing up any day now.
As much as I like him, I don't wanna hang around with someone sober.
ReplyDeleteWell, Rey couldn't question Cena's odd title shot request, because that would make him a HEEL.
ReplyDeleteShane Douglas (of all people) said it best. Punk takes the title and holds it hostage, prompting WWE to do whatever it takes, like sending hired guns after Punk, taking him to court, milking the press that this particular bit is "real" and building it until you have Cena finally coax Punk into coming back for the blow off at Wrestlemania. If Rock absolutely has to be there, have him wrestle someone else and save the match with Cena for later.
ReplyDeletePunk absolutely should have been kept off of television for at least a month, then only shown in interviews, segments, promos and hype videos. He comes back at Wrestlemania, debuts "Cult of Personality" there, and actually beats Cena, which would be the unexpected outcome, thus returning to WWE as the champion, under his terms and building a feud with someone else (a face Jericho?) while Cena goes and fingerbangs Rock for twelve months.
I realize the problem with this is that they announced Cena/Rock for WM28 the night after WM27 because the only way they know how to build a lengthy feud is to book it way in advance, forget about it for eight months, have the opponents team up, forget about it for another three months, then promote it like any other match the few weeks leading up to it. That or have those involved in the feud wrestle each other nine million times. See Del Rio, Alberto and Swagger, Jack for a prime example of that, I guess.
hardly anyone was suggesting to let Punk sit on the sidelines for several months. but the WWE could have easily done with him being "gone" for weeks.
ReplyDeleteor... they could give us a main event we haven't seen several times before?!
ReplyDeleteWell CM Punk will be returning fresh and Cena is your biggest draw.... Summerslam main event between them too makes a lot of sense despite it being repetitive. Post Summerslam I would tend to agree with you. Punk is the anti-Cena and it's inevitable that they will face off again once he returns... it's still the money match.
ReplyDeleteCena vs. McMahon couldn't have been a worse "draw" than Cena vs. John Laurinaitis.
ReplyDeletewhat bothered me was that there was neither a satisfying Punk vs. Triple H blowoff. and not even one for Punk vs. Laurinaitis.
ReplyDeleteI think Scott's idea drags the story out too much. I would have the tournament happen over the course of Raw, setting up the Mysterio-Cena main event at SummerSlam, and have Punk return the next night on Raw. Cena comes out with the belt, "The Champ is here!" Then Cult of Personality plays, Punk comes out. "No, John, NOW, the Champ is here."
ReplyDeleteThey have the unification match at Night of Champions, which still effectively kills the Triple H-Nash fest.
A little patience and chaning some plans (ADR) would have gone a long way. I agree Triple H and Nash should never have been involved, but if they had to be involved Triple H should have been a heel with Nash as his thug bodyguard.
ReplyDeleteI don't even know what you're trying to say.
ReplyDeleteWell, no. They were about to tour Mexico, so ADR had to be champ.
ReplyDeleteDuh!
That its annoying how people who are supposedly punk fans begrudge him his first real payday.
ReplyDeleteAnd also its funny to me people on here are acting like they wouldn't have bitched about rey vs cena in that main event.
I don't either... Punk sitting out SS11 and returning at the end of that night or at RAW the next night would have been MOLTEN. Cena-Rey for the "interim" title at SS would have been perfectly fine to just about anyone... and WAY better than "Oh Rey, you won the belt a little while ago, now defend it against a fresh Cena."
ReplyDeleteHe'd have gotten his payday... and probably a much bigger one than the one he did get. And I don't remember seeing ANYONE bitch about the idea of Rey-Cena... just how it was set up so fast and thrown away on free TV.
ReplyDeleteThat new crowd wasn't sticking around without punk. Granted the wwe pissed them away anyways but at least they kept them in for one show
ReplyDeleteSummerslam 11 is the biggest show punk HAS ever main evented. Probably his biggest payday ever. But you would have him sit at home and get nothing. And you're a fan...
ReplyDeleteKeeping Punk off TV until Wrestlemania 8-9 months down the line would've worked in the 4-5 PPV days.... but not now. The latest you can bring Punk back without losing a large chunk of the new crowd to boredom might be SurSer... but you're still taking a chance of freezing his momentum.
ReplyDeleteThis IS NOT 1980, where if you don't wrestle you don't get paid. You're creating a red herring, and an outdated one at that. Enjoy.
ReplyDeleteIts the biggest show he's ever main evented. Its likely his biggest ppv out the ever. Hes not making that back if he sits it out
ReplyDeleteBasically your argument is to guilt trip fans.
ReplyDeleteDidn't like how it turned out? Then Punk doesn't get that new tattoo he wanted.
This is where I'd make a bet with you, IF someone had a time machine to go back and change it.
ReplyDeleteI'd bet that whatever Punk would have "lost" at SS could have been EASILY made up by the rest of that year's PPVs, with ANY better booking of that angle.
That first week w/o Punk worked out just fine, mostly. Cena's "FIRED!", then HHH (or ANYONE ELSE preferably) comes out and tells Vince he's being "benched". Cue Cena's rehiring, and his automatic "#1 Contender" spot for SS.
ReplyDeleteRey still wins the tournament, and instead of facing Cena THE SAME NIGHT (BE A Star indeed, John), SS gets a viable main event without Punk.
I miss Juan Cena. They should've run with that.
ReplyDeleteWell I agree that if they booked it better he could have made more even if he skipped summerslam. But a hhh burial and a mid card (,but really good) Jericho mania feud show me he had to cash in when he did. But no question wwe fuckef that angle up
ReplyDeleteAll they had to do was hint that Punk might 'invade' and they'd have got many buys.
ReplyDeleteIf those eyeballs had also seen a potentially amazing Cena/Mysterio match, as well as the great Orton/Christian match, then it's all gravy
Don't like being around people that are better than you?
ReplyDeleteOr they could have kept Mysterio as champ....
ReplyDeleteIt's not like Barrett gets the title every time they come to the UK. Not sure I buy the argument that ADR had to be champ for those shows to sell
DOES NOT COMPUTE
ReplyDeleteThis is how retarded I am: I didn't even consider Rey Fucking Mysterio as champion going into the Mexico Tour Of 2011 as a possibility.
ReplyDelete(Actually, I think he's that physically fucked that WWE didn't even consider it.)
I don't buy the argument either. Worst case scenario, you have ADR challenging the champ. It doesn't matter.
If anyone remembers, one of the writers at the time of the HHH/Nash/Punk fiasco basically testified that they had an idea, things got twisted around and thing went wrong, and then one out of ten options was the route WWE brass chose to take.
That's pretty much how it runs around there. The Raw shows are not that far off from Bischoff's 'figure out what's going on 20 minutes before we go live' method, despite all of the writers they employ.
Yeah its hard to take that next step as a person.
ReplyDeleteI know, right?
ReplyDeleteIt was like the booking was too simple for them.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't he know about Whatsapp? What a clown
ReplyDeleteThere was a satisfying blowoff --- for HHH. He needed that win, dammit!
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash's cell phone should have never received service.
ReplyDeleteThey blew everyone they stumbled on that summer. Punk could easily have just 'bought tickets' to WWE events and sat in the front row causing a ruckus for a good month, and as someone 'not under contract' could make Cena's life a living hell. Big Johnny was a revelation, and they overdid him. All they had to do was get him some serious backup and let him get over on Punk a few times before taking the GTS in a match. If Vince can headline main events at A shows, a 20+ year veteran can hold his own at B shows. I don't know how WWE became allergic to heat.
ReplyDeleteCena v. Rey is a dream match and one that would've done a good buyrate, instead of Summerslam 2011 which tanked.
ReplyDeleteYou do Cena v. Rey for the title, Cena wins, Punk comes out when the show is over. Boom, you just set up for the fall storylines.
Cena v. Rey would've been an awesome main event. You could also have Del Rio come out and lay out Rey if you needed him to take time off, setting up more feuds.
ReplyDeleteYes, I would and yes, I am. You need Punk to take time off to really sell the angle.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he made nearly as much money as you think he did, especially given the disappointing buyrate. Also, it's not like WWE wouldn't pay him to sit at home and make it worth it.
ReplyDeleteThe big problem with booking the whole Summer of Punk angle was always:
ReplyDelete1) The fans turned Punk face, coupled with
2) Punk's whole character was about shitting on WWE, saying how bad the product was, and basically holding the company hostage.
So realistically, how do you reconcile pushing someone as a megaface but at the same time having him badmouth the company and hold the title hostage? Well of course, the really cool (and financially less safe) option would be to turn Cena into the corporate shill heel, and turn HHH into Mr. Mcmahon v2.0, and go from there.
But with Heel Cena just not gonna happen, and HHH having no desire to stooge it up for Punk, the whole dynamic of the angle was fucked.
Now that said, they could have went the same basic route (keeping Punk, Cena, and HHH all face) in a much better way then they did, but the thing is our dream scenario (Punk becoming the new Austin) just was never gonna happen.
Which is also crazy, because if you think about it, they've been desperately trying to recreate the Austin vs Vince dynamic for over ten f'n years now to absolutely no avail. (Lashley vs the McMahons! Yeah, people will buy into that! Ugh.) And then the exact scenario finally fell into their lap, and they just completely passed on it.
The other big problem in booking around the SUmmer of Punk is that they had absolutely ZERO heels at the time who meant anything. And again, that's totally WWE's fault, but the roster had no main event heels— yet at the time they were trying to push Cena, Punk, HHH for whatever goodamn reason, and Rey and Randy Orton as main event faces. PLUS they turned Sheamus face. PLUS they had Rock coming back at Survivor Series, and as we know they had absolutely nobody to credibly fight any of them.
ReplyDeleteI mean, Del Rio had already been killed off thanks to the Edge & Christian losses, Miz was already a joke, R-Truth was interesting but far from a main event anything, and the Henry push was just starting. And heel Christian was already getting beat left and right by Orton.
So at the time the roster was so lopsided that there weren't any interesting feuds to book. (Resulting in having to push Del Rio and Miz and Truth into feuds that nobody bought them in, or bringing in Kevin freakin' Nash.)
One thing I've always wondered is: why the fuck didn't Del Rio tap Edge out at Mania 27? ESPECIALLY if they knew it could be Edge's last match. I think that having a credible Alberto Del Rio as WHC going into the Summer of Punk could have created some awesome main event options. Perhaps Vince lets Punk leave with the WWE title, and runs with Del Rio as his corporate WHC, setting up an eventual match between them.
And this would have been the perfect time to turn Orton heel, if turning Cena or HHH just wasn't an option.
Basically, long story short, is they were in a really bad position to book feuds because they had zero heels for Punk to work with, basically until Jericho arrived the following January.
I'm not saying it is a good idea, just that I think that is what happens.
ReplyDeleteWhats really annoying is that hhh was in the perfect place to come in as a monster heel representing everything about the wwe punk railed against. Have him come in and be a super stooge and then, ya know, job to punk. But why do that when you can just book your self to go over a red hot act. That way you can stay strong for a Brock lesnar program or something I guess
ReplyDeleteBTW cena vs mysterio is a dream program to me. I wonder if cena would have the balls to make rey work it heel? Although I would prefer to have gotten a rey rey program with heel champ punk.
ReplyDeleteSee I dunno if rey main eventing does any better. Punk vs cena only drew 300k but without him it might do even worse. Mysterio is one of my 5 all time faves but I don't know if he's really a draw on the level of punk etc
ReplyDeletePunk vs cena ended up being a 4.75 main event anyways. If you assume the other booking stays the same punk not working summerslam might have been a bad career move
ReplyDeleteKids love Rey, and that's a huge dream match, while they had just done Punk v. Cena.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone even remember the match? I don't. It had the fuck finish that went nowhere and the Kevin Nash run-in that didn't lead to anywhere good.
ReplyDeletePunk vs HHHeel, with Trips taking the role of corporate monster (with Big Johnny as his stooge) was an act that could have been red-hot and lasted all the way til a Mania blow-off. But that would have involved HHH playing the uncool guy who gets beat in the end, which we now know would be un-doable by this prick's ego.
ReplyDeleteFor me the most telling thing about that whole debacle wasn't just that HHH booked himself to go over Punk (for NO REASON), but that he also ended the PPV by delivering the crotch chop. I mean, what teh fuck man. They finally have a legitimately cool act, that men and teenagers and such were latching onto, and Trips felt the need to piss all over it. Spare me all the "it took 10 pedigrees and 5 powerbombs to beat him" nonsense— the old man DX crotch chop was a burial moment, pure and simple, and it just turned out that Punk was able to stay over despite that.
Anyway, it's amazing to think how awesome that storyline could have been if HHH wasn't so incredibly insecure and instead would do what's right for THIS BUSINESS.
The most pathetic part is that huntor could have probably gotten his gigantic Austin/rock level mainstream angle by redoing Austin/ McMahon by having hhh embody punks promo. If that built to a mania blowoff with punk as champ it would have 1) been great for punk 2) could have created the next wrestling boom by being angle that would really pop 3) give hhh a chance to have a legit last hurrah as a top guy and win over the growing portion of the fan base that hates him.
ReplyDeleteBut then, like you said, hhh would have had to show lots of ass, playoff being a guy who advanced via politics and not talent, let punk cut promos on him, and omg do the job
Exactly. Going in all the way with a "HHH as Vince" and "Punk as Austin" feud could have been gigantic. Christ, it's the same dynamics as Austin-McMahon except in this scenario McMahon would be one of the most credible wrestlers of all-time. Christ, they could have even put the belt on HHH if the end result was a blow-off of Punk going over decisively. In this parallel universe, you could even keep all things Rock-Cena the same as they were, except you'd also have the Punk-HHHeel blood feud running at the same time. Would have been major money.
ReplyDeleteWhat's weird is that Triple H could have done his 2003 Triple H thing, and people would have loved it/hated it at the same time. Triple H being a massive heel (as he is great at it), screwing over Punk every chance he can (like against Goldberg), Punk finding ways to get his little victories (like destroying Triple H's limo or locker room). Punk gets a match at Survivor Series or something, Triple H pulls heel stunts and wins. Injures Punk so he can take some time off (or more time off if he just came back). Triple H crushes other faces, mouths off, does his heel thing. Punk comes back at Rumble, wins it, challenges Triple H at Mania. Punk wins at Mania clean, and then Triple H tries to screw him over like Vince did against Austin.
ReplyDeleteIt would have been $$$!
Well, it just seems like Triple H is at some mid-life crisis point in his life where he refuses to ever look in the slightest bit weak or un-cool. I mean, it's always sort of been that way, but if you ask me his run in the past 4-5 years as a face has been even more damaging to the company than anything he did in the early 2000s heel run. Middle-aged Face HHH has gone over Orton at the one time Orton was on the verge of becoming a MEGAstar (Mania 25), Sheamus (that pre-Mania 27 burial was fucking ridiculous), Punk, and made Lesnar look horrible. Oh, he jobbed to his buddy Taker twice? Of course he made sure both matches were total BJ-fests directed at keeping the focus completely on himself and his own "legend." It's just un-real. I mean, I'd understand if a regular wrestler did all he could to politic himself into going over everyone on the roster, but this guy OWNS THE COMPANY. Which means that he's in a position to make shitloads of money if the company grows. And yet he buries possible money-makers every chance he gets. It's gotta be his own insecurity, plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteWell to be fair, Mysterio isn't from Mexico.
ReplyDeleteNah they'll let him finish out in WWE, and Rey values himself enough to not take the downgrade (remember, he held out on his Time Warner contract rather than taking the WWE buyout, even though most people didn't think he was enough of a star to do that and stay relevant. And he probably had the best career out of any of them.
ReplyDeleteI think that was mostly due to him wanting to go to Mexico first. I could easily see Chavo talking him into the lighter schedule.
ReplyDeleteAll they needed to do was have Rey vs. Cena at Summerslam (a HUGE dream match), have Cena win the title, THEN have Punk come out with the belt.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't need any of that Kevin Nash bullshit.
You make some excellent points here.
ReplyDeleteFucking right. HHH could have propped up new "corporate" challengers, with Punk retaining each time by outsmarting the "cerebral assassin". Hunter finally steps up and calls Punk out at Wrestlemania, where he taps to the Vice and Punk gets the big ass win he deserved. Undertaker could have had another challenger developed by then, plus Rock-Cena was already gonna sell out Wrestlemania 28, so it's not like that show NEEDED Taker-HHH
ReplyDeleteYeah but he's Mehiccin.
ReplyDelete