Scott,
Ratings just came in for Impact and it got a 0.8. When will TNA begin to panic? 0.6? 0.4? Ratings are steadily decreasing. Will they abruptly end the Aces and Eights? Or could we see even MORE Hogan on TV even in a wrestling role? If the Slammiversary buys are lower than expected, what big shake ups do you expect?
Thanks and enjoy your beautiful weekend
I find that TNA doesn't usually panic-book, the panicking is usually done by Spike. Hulk's probably gonna be like "Three and a half years isn't enough time for a company to turn around with me on top, brother, we're gonna need another couple of title reigns for me to really see which way the wind blows when it comes to Hulkamania in 2013." Apparently we're building to Hulk v. Bully at Bound for Glory as it is, which is just...no. Just no.
I'm gonna throw it out there, because I can't unsay it afterwards, but maybe they should fire Bischoff and Hogan and bring back Jeff Jarrett. I think they really need to get back to Jerry Jarrett's philosophy of cutting the talent pay down to nothing and booking soap opera Memphis stuff, because keeping 8 guys on retainer for doing run-ins week after week is not paying dividends with Aces & Eights. This isn't Ted Dibiase and Syxx where we actually give a shit about anyone beyond Evil Team 3D and maybe Mr. Anderson as a serious main event threat. You can also scrap the entire X division at this point, because if Kenny King is your champion and best worker, well, you know. And that's nothing against Kenny, but come on.
They need an overhaul for sure, and not a Hulk-related one.
Thanks for answering my question, Scott. I agree 100% with you. Hogan isn't working. Bring back Jarrett. Heck, all the money they spent on Hogan/Bischoff could've been used to bring in Heyman in 2010 AND then some.
ReplyDeleteI think TNA needs to go back to its roots. Make the X-Division title equal to the World title. Separate the roster into two divisions:
X-Division feature guys like Styles, Joe, Hardy, King, Suicide, Sabin, Aries, Ion, Daniels, Kazarian, and give it a 220-lb. weight limit.
Put guys in the Heavyweight Division that are over that limit like Bull Ray, Abyss, Sting, Hernandez, Roode, Storm, Magnus, Matt Morgan, DOC, Knux, Mr. Anderson,
Get rid of the 3-way X matches. Let the X-Division have equal TV time as the Heavyweights. Get rid of the TV title. Get rid of the Knockouts tag titles. Let the X-Division main event half of the PPV's and TV's. I really think that format would work. By having established workers in each division, no one would judge which is better.
Fire some of the useless talent that is not improving at all: Garrett, Brisco, Terry, Jessie, Chavo, guys along those lines.
Go out and sign a couple established veterans: Rey, Morrison, MVP, Shelton, Shelley, Steen. Even go out and sign a Puro guy or two if they could just to help sell tickets internationally.
Final step would be to throw a lot of money at a guy that might be wanting to leave the WWE like CM Punk. Perhaps some "creative control" + letting him help write to sway him into coming over with the Hogan's gone.
Heat-Pacers did a strong rating last night. There's cross over with the wrestling audience there. TNA did their usual rating last week (1.07). They'll be right back to that if there isn't a finals game next week. No need to panic at all.
ReplyDeleteIn 2005 - with AJ, Daniels, Joe, Sabin, Shelley, Williams and the like - TNA should have BECOME the X Division.
ReplyDeleteInstead they dropped the ball and EIGHT YEARS later they really haven't recovered. Yes, their booking isn't half bad right now, but instead of being progressive and giving themselves a fighting chance, they're just... there.
The X Division is not the solution. It was never a big draw to begin with, what's changed? Nothing. I still think that Spike doesn't do enough to market the hell out of their shows, plus they don't have any original programming to speak of that can help draw viewers to its channel. You put TNA on FX or USA tomorrow and their rating goes up. They've put on quality shows for the better part of a year and the rating has been stuck aroung 1.0 (+-.2).
ReplyDeleteThat's probably true about the X Division, but it was on the cusp of being a draw when they launched on Spike. But instead of pushing it, we got Jeff Jarrett rammed down our throats and the new audience they gained walked away.
ReplyDeleteThreadjack: After reading the review on the Torch, I picked up Bob Holly's book today and it's a really good read. His co-author's publicity shot is something to be mocked until the end of the time but I'll admit that whatever framing he did, he did well; you can easily imagine Holly sitting here telling you the stories as is. Some really interesting inside perspective from a guy who was around to see it all and he never comes across as someone with an axe to grind. I'm still not sold on his reasoning for what he did to Capotelli but I can least see his perspective now.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, great read, very brisk but informative. Also the first book to peel back the curtain on Hunter a bit, which I'm sure is enough to get any internet fan excited.
The Jarrett experiment was terrible TV, but (and I mean this with all sincerity), what do you mean that it was on "the cusp of being a draw"? I'm a data guy.
ReplyDeleteOh, it's all theory. Joe vs. Styles was a hot program in late '05 and was something WWE just didn't have. What WWE DID have was people with heavy control of the book getting overexposed, which Jeff Jarrett tried his best to replicate. I feel they would have been better offering a true alternative, but their main event was just pathetic, even compared to John Cena's boobird ascendance.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Spike is awful at advertising. There is literally NOTHING on that channel that is interesting besides Impact. UFC was even smart enough to leave.
ReplyDeleteThe Jeff Jarrrett Formula:
ReplyDelete2-3 minutes stalling + yelling at the crowd
4 minutes of chain-wrestling
4 minutes of brawling on the floor
REF BUMP!!!
Chairshot leads to Jarrett bleeding
5 guys interfere
1-2 finishers leading to false finishes where Jarrrett ALMOST loses.
1 guitar shot
1 swerve
Jarrett pins opponent in 16-18 minutes.
RIP Jarrett Formula 2002-2006
Joe is below 220 lbs?
ReplyDeleteI've read that Spike wants to move into scripted TV territory. That's a good first step. Some marquee shows that folks tune to and can see commercials for TNA will help. Their viewership is just not very high.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't mind the program as of late but Scotts dead on about Aces. What purpose to Knux and DOC serve? And it's probably safe to say Garret and Brisco are trash with no chance to improve. Main event factions need to be predominantly main event and upper midcard guys.
ReplyDeleteWell said. Not only THAT, but the heavyweight title picture was way more entertaining with Raven, Monty Brown, Rhino, and the like. No sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteI maintain that Joe/AJ @ Turning Point 2005 is the best TNA match ever.
ReplyDeleteWhy not drop the entire idea of "lesser" belts like the TV and X Titles? Go to weight classes ala boxing, MMA, etc. The only difference here is promote the belts as being equal. Mayweather and Pacquiao outdraw any heavyweight in boxing. Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva draw as much as any heavyweight in MMA. You could do Heavyweight, some kind of lighter weight that doesn't utilize the word Heavyweight so as not to make it seem lesser, and an Openweight class where you can still get the freakshow factor inherent to wrestling. That way each belt can be slotted into a main event to prevent burnout on any one particular storyline. You can still utilize the tag titles, which again can allow for the crossover between the different weight classes.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's reminiscent of Japan but wrestling needs a drastically different presentation in this country if it wants to stay relevant.
I respectfully disagree. I don't have the numbers handy to back me up, but I could swear UFC's TUF went dramatically down in viewership after the move from Spike to FX. WWE actually built up the Spike brand where it wasn't out of the ordinary to check the channel out back in the day. Spike still has a rep for random stuff and some of it works (Bar Rescue, Joe Schmo, TNA) and some of it doesn't. FX has their offbeat comedies and the occasional badass show with a cult following (Sons of Anarchy, the Shield), but I never even think of going there otherwise. USA and TNT are the only cable networks that can draw consistently good ratings, it seems.
ReplyDeletePunk in TNA would be gold. At least the people they pay big money to now float and go with the flow for the most part. He'd probably have a mental breakdown and drive them out of business by constantly shooting on the company while being pushed, ala Steiner in the last couple of years in WCW.
ReplyDeleteI agree. TNA has proved they willconconsistently draw in the .8 to 1.2 range. I would be shocked if their ratings ever went much lower. They definitely have a solid base to keep spike happy. Its a reasonable question to ask if they should change some shit up but not because of a TV rating for one week that falls within their normal pattern anyways
ReplyDeleteThe week before, with no competition from the NBA, didn't they do their best number in like years? A few weeks of this number would be a reason to panic, but 1) they were up against Heat/Pacers and 2) they just changed time solts.
ReplyDeleteBut if they are really building to Bully Ray v. Hulk... yeesh.
Hogan, Jarrett...crud...while we're at it, let's bring back Cornette! NOOOOO. Enough with the old guys with the same old ideas. There's a huge difference between respecting what worked in the past (being old school) and just not having any new ideas (being old). Maybe it's time to give someone new a chance. Paul Heyman was a loudmouth manager and Vince Russo was a magazine writer, but their spirit was a breath of fresh air and they were given a chance.
ReplyDeleteGive a dirt sheet writer or columnist a place at the table with Dixie's blessing and protection. The fact is this: there are much more enjoyable things online about wrestling than there are enjoyable things on tv about wrestling. WWE needs help, too. How they were not able to properly harness the popularity of Punk, Bryan, and to some small extent, Fandango, is beyond me.
Bischoff is supposedly in tight with Spike, so TNA risks pissing them off if they can him. And Bischoff will never oust Hogan. So strap in kids, this is TNA for the foreseeable future. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteAHHHHH. I just saw it on Smackdown. Bryan did the nip/kip up after the super mule kick just like Owen. I love it!!!! I've been comparing him to Owen ever since his heel turn a year and a half ago.
ReplyDeleteAnd WWE hires outside the wrestling world all the time to disastrous results. I don't think that is the answer.
ReplyDeleteScrap the X-Division? Now we're getting drastic here. So you want them to take away what they do offer that WWE doesn't? What's next, you're gonna say scrap the superior women's division?
ReplyDeleteI consider being a wrestling writer not being outside the wrestling world. I'm not saying hire outside the wrestling world. Just hire someone different. I would throw massive amount of money at a Mick Foley, a Sid (judging by his twitter alone), or even a Nash. I would throw some money at a Lance Storm or William Regal, too. These guys have extremely high wrestling IQs and know how to verbalize it to an audience (in this case, it would now be other wrestlers).
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, I would throw some money at a Scott Keith or Scott Keith-type, a creative wrestling YouTuber (there's so many out there), or the cast of Wrestlecrap to be stringers (to borrow a newspaper term, I believe) of sorts.
WWE hires writers who can't even spell wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI think the Clique would be really effective if they're aren't booking themselves. But if we are looking at ex wrestlers, the first guy I call is Raven.
ReplyDeleteHow's Raven's short-term memory these days?
ReplyDeleteI agree on both counts. During interviews, it seems like they still can dissect what works, what doesn't, and why to a complex degree. That's why I think Nash would be a hell of a booker as long as he NEVER appeared on camera. Raven is a guy you could have on staff, most definitely, but he seems to rub people the wrong way (so, I'm basically saying don't make him head booker).
ReplyDeleteOn top of that, Dixie believes whatever she's told by both Eric and Hulk and will always insert either of them into anything they want.
ReplyDeleteJesus fucking christ I hate Hulk Hogan. His role this time last year was perfect, but now it goes back to the time honored tradition of placating an aging star who can't get over not being the center of the universe anymore.
TNA always worked best when the utilized they legit athletic/competition stuff with the storylines (see the MMA like build for Angle/Joe, and 2012 BFG Series). I'd love for them to have a seasonal model where its major guys in the summer for the Bound for Glory Series, a tag team team league in late fall/winter, and something like a double elimination X-Division tournament in the late winter/early spring. Still keep everyone active, just be able to shift the focus so that various programs and divisions don't get burned out.
ReplyDeleteGet all the top indy guys and use them. Stop wasting time on MMA never-was'es and fuys who are greener than goose shit.
ReplyDeleteYou can't compare WWE's drawing ability to TNA. Let's be fair. WWE actually dropped in ratings when they moved to TNN. I don't think they were ever there when it was called Spike anyways. As for UFC, they were there for so long and the sport exploded as they premiered TUF, so that's like comparing WWE to TNA - not apples to apples. As for FX's cult following, those shows (even Sunny) all draw more viewers than any show on Spike. That's the kind of bump that Spike needs to draw attention to their network and their other shows.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm wrong, then show me the numbers, but if memory recalls, i'm right on this.
Not sure that's the solution anymore. Indy talent pool just isn't what it was from 2001/2002-2006. A lot of the guys wound up either working for TNA or going to WWE. Wrestling's future is doomed.
ReplyDeleteI was not comparing WWE to TNA. I was saying WWE helped make Spike a brand name not worth snickering at. And I think my views on the networks still apply. FX draws big ratings for their tv shows that have the cult followings, but they aren't drawing much more for others.
ReplyDeleteTUF dropped 21% in ratings from Spike's last year to FX's first year. http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/11/ultimate-fighter-ratings-fx/
"Welcome to you're 'doom!'" - Frisky Dingo
ReplyDeleteI think there are still guys out there who could shine that aren't under contract yet, Steen, Davey Richards, Eddie Edwards, Elgin, Adam Cole
ReplyDeleteAND TNN turned to Spike in 2003, over two years before WWE left. That's why I'm saying Spike is still a viable brand name due to WWE's help.
ReplyDeletehttp://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/05/29/tnt-again-wins-week-with-cable-primetime-adults-18-49-total-viewers-nickelodeon-on-top-with-total-day-viewership-for-week-ending-may-26-2013/184620/
ReplyDeleteTake this week for example. It's not even close. FX is 37% higher than Spike. That's not a small difference.
You're correct about that.
ReplyDeleteTommy Dreamer is someone I'm surprised has never been a top booker with a big company. He had a lot to do with the successes of early ECW and mid period OVW.
ReplyDeleteCall me crazy, but I'd call both Hall and Jake Roberts.
ReplyDeleteDespite every episode being basically the same, Bar Rescue is pretty great. I also don't hate Ink Master or Deadliest Warrior.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with the Clique back in the day is that they were tuned into what was modern and cool at the time. The ideas they were pushing in WWF, and what they did with nWo and DX, they had a finger on society's pulse. No doubt they know their shit as far as booking and all the subtleties that often go over looked, I just wonder if they know what society's looking for these days when they're pushing 50.
ReplyDeleteI still think there's a big difference between being a good destination for macho-type shows and sports (which spike is close to being) and being a destination for quality comedies and badass dramas (FX). FX's identity is wrapped up in the latter, and that's not a bad thing at all consider the quality of their content. But even when they have better college football games on, they'll still get beat by ESPN2 in the ratings because of the network's identity.
ReplyDelete*sigh*
ReplyDeleteI will beat this horse until it's dead and make glue: They need another show separate from Impact and that Aces and 8's bullshit. Now Universal wants TNA Back, so why not have Xplosion filmed out of there?
You have a big enough roster of unused talent that could make a great show, plus you can interact with MMA and other things. My roster would be:
"Cowboy" James Storm "Xplosion" Champion
Samoa Joe
Magnus
Gunner
Sting (since he'll probably lose at the PPV)
Matt Morgan
Doug Williams
Add the Gut Check winners for job duty, some outside talent like a Colt Cabana or an international star or two (THIS would be the time to use the talent exchange), a KO match and you'd have a good show on say Tuesday night. For booking duties? That would be separate from Impact too, so give it to Lance Storm.
Hunter. Details. Go!
ReplyDeleteI should be more clear what I mean, because you make a great point. Impact is going to get .8-1.2 for perpetuity. They have a built in audience and it will follow them to another network. Now, imagine that whatever network they go to has 37% more total viewers on a consistent basis. Even though those shows may not draw the prototypical wrestling fan, having more viewers and the way viewer habits are studied, would lend credence that some of those folks may try the product. It's all about getting your brand out to as many people as possible. Spike is one of the lowest rated channel's in viewership. That hurts Impact. This part of the argument is a fact and undeniable.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. Thanks for the thoughts.
ReplyDeleteWrestling is never doomed, but I do agree about the current indie talent. Then again, the crop of 10 years ago was pretty historic.
ReplyDeleteI didn't really get the appeal of Rhino in ECW or WWE, he was just one of those guys that was there and I'd normally not care about one way or another. But he cut this promo on Jarrett in TNA where he literally says he'll beat the shit out of him and I was into him for a while - just really intense.
ReplyDeleteGentleman!
ReplyDeleteBecause it's the opposite of Punk!
I'm high.
Nash still seems to still have his pulse on pop culture today.
ReplyDeleteUm, yes? Women's wrestling is terrible.
ReplyDeleteThey barely have enough top names for one show and you want to split them up?
ReplyDeleteThe show also never has an urgency to it. Remember the Nitro's during the MNW's? It always seemed like the shit was about to hit the fan at any moment. I never feel that way during Impact. I also really hope they get rid of Aces and 8's soon, or at least try and copy what WWE is doing with the Shield.
ReplyDeleteWatch some Joshi and get back to me on that.
ReplyDeleteWhatever they were doing in 2006 was working for me. It wasn't overly gimmicky, they had logical feuds that were well built up for an appropriate periods of time, characters I could get invested in. The build up to Bound for Glory was my favorite period of TNA - and it all went to hell literally the next show.
ReplyDeleteWhat they need to do is, next time they have someone who organically breaks out, fucking go with it. Joe, Storm, Aries....they have these guys who get massively over and have a lot of momentum, but then they cut them off short so they can go back to Hardy, AJ, etc.
Yep. If Impact is going to be the Aces and 8's show and not use people then split them. They'll still have the Heavyweight Title, Tag Belts and X-Division as a focus.
ReplyDeleteI know Bully's done some great work, and D-Von and Doc have gotten themselves in great shape, but at the end of the day it's still the biggest collection of midcarders and jobbers in one place since the J.O.B Squad.
ReplyDeleteI hope you're not calling them to be designated drivers.
ReplyDeleteMeh, they wanna compete with WWE so badly, put it on Fridays.
ReplyDeleteYes, good stuff.
ReplyDeleteOne last thing, I found a cool link on TUF ratings. Although it started out strong on Spike, total viewers averaged less than on FX.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/16/3511520/detailed-breakdown-of-ultimate-fighter-ratings-shows-disturbing-trends
ha ha, no.
ReplyDeleteThey could have the same guys wrestle for a United States Championship or something, which sounds more credible, and doesn't have the gimmicky triple threat matches stipulation. Good matches are good matches and "X-Division" sounds dumb.
ReplyDeleteHulk is in NO CONDITION to wrestle any more, even a once a year novelty match. Somebody REALLY has to sit Hogan down and tell him this if they haven't figured this out yet. I would start breaking up Aces and Eights at this point, because Bully Ray doesn't need them to be over as heel champ. Just build up Styles and Storm as the top two contenders, have one of them go over when Bully needs a break, and there you go.
ReplyDelete"Somebody REALLY has to sit Hogan down and tell him this if they haven't figured this out yet."
ReplyDeleteHis doctors have done this, but I have a feeling Hulk is not going to listen.
They need to have it be a lead in to an MMA show, so the show would be more physical and athletic. (this is why I debated on putting Angle on that roster but was unsure if he could work that style anymore)
ReplyDeleteDo you think it's because he's addicted to the spotlight or he needs the money?
ReplyDeleteProbably both, no?
ReplyDeleteBully hurt his friends and hurt his pride. He's gotta be a man. He can't let it slide.
ReplyDeleteJake Roberts and Raven both are two awesome candidates as far as having great minds for the business. It also helps that they don't wrestle anymore either, and both seem like they would put the end result ahead of their need to push themselves. This is why I wouldn't say someone like Shane Douglas - because he would just find a way to push himself.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is.....what reason do we really have to CARE about Wes Brisco? Honestly?
ReplyDeleteMonty Brown would have been a BIG star....TNA needs to get him back - no matter what the cost - ASAP.
ReplyDeleteBrahs the soluition is simple. TNA needs to go with what brung em to the dance.
ReplyDeleteHere are ideas- -
-Lollipop and the cage dancers
-Bentley bounce
- Goldilocks
-MOrtimer Plumtree and those guys dressed like weiners
-Seperate entrance ways for the heels and the baby's
- Codie Deaner
-Hollywood Chris Braden Harris Walker
- Lil Petey Pump
-Prince Justice Brotherhood thingee with Shark Boy, Super Eric and I think Daniels Man
0Cute Kip and Orlando Jordan as a tag team
-Scott S'Mores
-That James Earl Jones sounding dude
-Konan's shoe
- Jeff Jarrett's white denim pants
- TNA superheavyweight champ Cheex
I've always had the feeling that Hogan wanted Brooke to wrestle for awhile. I could see a fucked up situation where he manages her and she becomes Knockouts Champ for an eon or two.
ReplyDeleteRoberts needs to stay as far away from wrestling as possible.
ReplyDeleteAnd my point is that Raven is a crackhead who's fucked up his brain with concussions and drugs.
Really, there was no appeal for Rhino in ECW. Fans loved the Gore, and he was an acceptable TV Champion but his World Title win was greeted with a "huh?" then the company folded.
ReplyDeleteI notice a distinct lack of midgets jerking off in trash cans.
ReplyDeleteFor shame.
dont forget the 'raising his hands in victory with a look on his face like he's concentrating on passing a prickly poo'
ReplyDelete1. Maybe they learned from their mistakes?
ReplyDelete2. I said *get out* with a profit. I make no claims of whether or not they are currently making money on an ongoing basis.
You forgot Oily Naked Guy.
ReplyDeleteOr was that Naked Oily Guy?
If the ratings get low enough to the point where Spike cancels it, where do they go from there? I don't think they could survive very long with TV exposure, it would be exactly like WCW, no TV=not profitable, the WWE then just swoops in, buys the tape library, and cherry picks the guys and gals they want.
ReplyDeleteThere are probably other networks they can go to, but I think the deal they have with Spike is the best they'll get.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I don't see a lot of other networks out there as relatively high profile as spike willing to take on TNA, and the ones that might already have a deal with WWE.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they could throw a last hail mary and combine for supershows with ROH, PWG, Dragongate USA, and Chikara, like how the AWA, WCCW, and the USWA did back in the day to try and fight off the WWE juggernaut.
ReplyDeleteThey would never keep TNA PG-13. They wouldn't keep it period. They'd strip mine the place, keep like the 4 or 5 guys worth keeping and add the library to the rotation on On Demand.
ReplyDeleteEven so, that's would be WWE's prerogative. I'm just saying that selling the organization and taking the decisions out of their hands would be the best thing that the owners of TNA could do.
ReplyDeleteThe last thing we need is a shitty TV show pretending to be a wrestling show while hating almost everything that made wrestling great. TNA might not be the greatest thing ever, but at least it's presented as a wrestling show and it's usually a good 2 hour show that flies by.
ReplyDeleteYou're close. Maybe add Ken Shamrock masturbating in trash can?
ReplyDeleteKeeping TNA afloat doesn't help WWE in any way. It doesn't even really help TNA, any time a star gets hot, WWE will pluck them away.
ReplyDeleteThose who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Learn it.
ReplyDeleteYep, it'll be the shitty ECW show all over again.
ReplyDeleteThey haven't learned jack or shit. Did you see what they did to the ECW show?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't benefit TNA at all and makes them come off as small time.
ReplyDeleteBiggest non death future wrestling story besides a Steph/HHH split would be if Shane McMahon bought TNA. I keep hoping it happens...but I'm not holding my breath.
ReplyDeleteMe too. He's got enough cash, but I don't think he has the same drive or competitive insanity as VKM did.
ReplyDeleteThat was seven years ago! Live in the now!
ReplyDeleteWhy would he do that? He could have had WWE if he wanted that!
ReplyDeleteI can only guess as I don't know what Shane thinks, but it's not unusual or unprecedented for a son to want to make it on their own and exceed their parents success. There you go. My best guess.
ReplyDeleteOr just do the sure bet; bring in the Warrior for Hogan vs. Warrior 3! "Send the plane into a nosedive, Dixie! And then you'll be close to Parts of Denny's Senior Menu Unknown! *Snarrrlll!*"
ReplyDeleteTOUGH GUY KEN SHAMROCK wearing sandals is a winner
ReplyDeletethat was me and i was goin thru a phase
ReplyDeleteWell, there hasn't been another example to pick from, but i'll give you three.
ReplyDelete1. WCW
2. ECW
3. Smackdown/Raw brand split.
In all three examples that exist, they quickly became either assimilated by WWE (all three), watered down to WWE lite (ECW) and given up without creating a distinct brand (Smackdown/RAW).
I'm supposed to ignore history? I guess zanadudes wishes are a more accurate way to reach a conclusion. ;-)
I think he went away because he got pushed out by Hunter and Steph. He wasn't interested in being a number 2 his entire life.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame he doesn't have that "Fuck You" vindictive trait like his dad, because buying TNA as a giant middle finger to Trips is definitely a McMahon move.
I still don't know what the endgame was for ECW, even if they'd stuck to Heyman's vision. What is the point?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, he doesn't have the kind of money that TNA truly needs to compete with WWE. Is he creative enough to bring them to that kind of level? I would think he could make TNA better, but not popular enough to compete with WWE. I honestly think you would need a Ted Turner type who'd be willing to go out and sign some big WWE names.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the split, they really need to bring back a legitimate brand split, with exclusive PPVs and everything. I'd bet it improve both shows by 200% immediately.
ReplyDeleteI was fooled into believing they were going to keep that brand completely separate and let Heyman do his thing. As soon as I saw Big Show-Batista headline the 3rd or 4th tv show, I knew it was done.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the first few years of the hardcore brand split. The stuff with Bischoff was really cool.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Shane kind of a Russo fan? I thought Shane left because they weren't listening to his ideas, or he wasn't interested in taking part in the PG stuff. Dare Shane and Russo combine into a new Megapowers?!
ReplyDeleteI doubt he is making all those moves in China on his own dime. I'm sure he has the ear of some serious investors. A group of buyers acquiring a wrestling company with McMahon as the public face, kinda like the group that bought the Dodgers used Magic Johnson.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's anything new left in the Russo bag of tricks. He's shown us his hand and it's terrible.
ReplyDeleteRiggt. Unless a promotion can get a genius promoter on the level of Vince, then they need a ton of money where they can just buy all of Vince's top acts.
ReplyDeleteYou know what I'd do for a new brand split? Instead of Raw and SD, make it WWE and NXT.
ReplyDeleteThe Shield is basically the recon group for an invasion, and a big ass war breaks out between WWE and NXT, with guys like Randy Orton and Jericho turning on WWE to give the other guys some star power. And at the blow off show, NXT wins and gets control of Smackdown and 5 PPVs.
Is there an echo in this room?
ReplyDeleteOne of WWE's best moves right now would be to hire Russo and only let him book the mid card and lower.
ReplyDeleteI'm still a bigger fan of the purchase Smackdown type scenario/angle, like what they did with Ric Flair, but stick to it!
ReplyDeleteCan he book PG? And I certainly don't want him booking anything related to matches which includes finishes, run ins, poles, etc. You know the shit you'll be getting.
ReplyDeleteRight. I never really thought of Shane as a creative dynamo either. Isn't Shane's biggest creative contribution that he came up with the name Diesel for Nash?
ReplyDeleteJBL is revealed to be NXT's backer and is offering guys like Randy Orton big contracts to switch sides.
ReplyDeleteI'm talking mainly coming up with gimmicks, angles, and feuds for these guys.
ReplyDeleteHe spent his whole life around Vince and the business. He had to have picked up some things.
ReplyDeleteDone and done. JBL would be a perfect guy and he can appoint a Jack Tunney type president to run things. Have a show without the stupid GM/authority figure. Hogan has been decent in the role, but that character gets too much heat off the wrestlers. Kill it already.
ReplyDeleteSure, I can buy Russo in that role. However, there's just so much beaurocracy in WWE these days, I don't know if he could function in that environment.
ReplyDeleteHow about this? TNA brings in riot gear wearing Steen, Richards, and Elgin, who are looking for justice, and they call themselves, wait for it...The Sword! Belive in The Sword!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Russo, where does a disgraced wrestling writer go? How is he currently supporting his family? Did Vic Venom return to work in a local video rental store in the Bronx? Eat. Pray. Love. On a pole match!
ReplyDeleteIf all you watch is WWE and, formerly, WCW women's wrestling (and booking) then you're correct. Fortunately there is more out there than that.
ReplyDeleteThe major difference between then and not is that Triple H has a far greater role in running the company.
ReplyDeleteNXT as reality show was Vince's idea. NXT as development territory where guys can learn the WWE way without being overexposed is Triple H's influence.
In fact, there is your proof that WWE can run a separate entity just fine right there.
You meant to type Roberts both times, I'm fairly certain.
ReplyDeleteYou're fucking insane.
ReplyDeleteI deserve that. ;-)
ReplyDeleteand what? Hulk Hogan is the picture of health???????
ReplyDeleteI believe in competition no matter how small it may be. Monopolies tend to be a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteOn a serious note: It's interesting that we always trot out those two guys when the "They would be great bookers" convo. comes up. None of us can think of anyone better?! Or does being completely strung out for your entire career actually make you MORE qualified to be an elite wrestling booker?
ReplyDeleteI believe that publicly owned companies need growth, and couldn't care less about whether competition is good for them.
ReplyDeleteAren't they pretty thin on talent already? You'd end up with guys like Wade Barrett main eventing shows again.
ReplyDeleteSure, but that's not the discussion we're having. Don't re-direct the topic by changing the conversation. I'm on to you. ;-)
ReplyDeleteWhich is what he should be doing.
ReplyDeleteThe point is to make money, brother.
ReplyDeleteWould Konnan's shoe be coming in by itself?
ReplyDeleteSo you resurrect...ECW?
ReplyDeleteRoberts and Hall were always considered wrestling geniuses with great ideas, but were too fucked up to hold any kind of serious booking job, hence, why they're trotted out.
ReplyDeleteI'll never forget Vince's promo the last Spike show they did where he kept saying "USA" and getting censored.
ReplyDeleteI thought Heyman built him up as a monster heel pretty well during that last year of ECW, but I was pretty susceptible to his smoke and mirrors booking.
ReplyDeleteI'm not advocating Hogan to be near a ring either.
ReplyDeleteI like it. The 'openweight' matches could take place during the Open Fight Night challenges where guys could call out guys in another division. You could even generate a storyline of a dominant X champ 'moving up in class' to become a heavyweight, just like guys do in the UFC all the time.
ReplyDeleteFor multiman matches like Lethal Lockdown, you could get everyone involved by making every LL team have three 225+ pounders and two 225- pounders, or vice versa.
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ReplyDelete...
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Touche.
Most of Rhino's promos in ECW were something about how he'd "rip off his opponents head and shit down their fucking throats."
ReplyDeleteThat's probably my favorite TNA match, too. That whole Daniels/Styles/Joe three way feud was great.
ReplyDeleteI think the NBA playoffs has something to do with the low rating
ReplyDeleteThe brand had some goodwill left to suck out of it. They popped a 2.79 rating for their first show, which is RAW-worthy these days, and got themselves in good with the SyFy channel, where Smackdown resides to this day. That they are on Syfy is probably due to that being the best deal they could cut, so they made more money of Smackdown by ECW's so-called "pointless" existence than they would have it had never happened.
ReplyDeleteSo obviously WWE is better off for having brought ECW back.
yeah, take away their original title and division that's been with the company from day one, and replace it with a title WWE already has. good one.
ReplyDeletethe 3 way only idea is crap but it'll last about as long as "the tv title will be defended every week" did.
That is all hindsight. The goal of bringing ECW back wasn't so Smackdown would find a home a few years later.
ReplyDeletebecause the show needs to be oily men wrestling and nutgrabbing ALL THE TIME.
ReplyDeleteMeltzer made the point in the last Observer that in fact Vince has made FAR more money off ECW than ECW ever did. And in fact, when all is said and done, ECW was actually a very profitable company. It's just that all the profit came years after it officially died.
ReplyDeleteThe original business plan is not always the one that sticks (you don't see pole dancers in TNA anymore) That WWE was able to adapt and ultimately leverage ECW's assets to WWE's greater good is all that matters. I believe that WWE could also do the same with TNA, and create the proverbial win-win situation for both organizations...if not necessarily for the wrestlers within them.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!
ReplyDeletethe second show idea is stupid.
And now they are pulling under the 1.1 norm?
Lets split them up!?! See where it goes?! straight into the shitter.
Ive been saying this for months TNA will fuck everything up. But as long as people are entertained it goes unnoticed.
They are circling the drain. If Hogan/Bully happens at BFG 13, they wont see BFG 15, barring a complete overhaul of the company from Dixie Carter on down.
Meh. I think running Bully v Hogan will only keep them where they're at, not actually sink them.
ReplyDeletewouldn't that reinforce the idea of the heavyweight belt being worth more than the other one?
ReplyDeleteor let them come in as home shopping advertisers that constantly try to con you into buying stupid merchandise: the Shill!
ReplyDeletethis. how TNA destroyed Samoa Joe is amazingly horrible.
ReplyDelete(you got to wonder: if Joe had made the jump to WWE when he had the chance, would it have worked? my personal guess is it really seems to be a "sheer force of will" thing for the last crop of "indy darlings" to get over. Punk and Bryan WANTED to make it, no matter it. guys like Paul London and Low-Ki didn't)
To me that is the point. We complain about the same people being on top but a true brand split would force a promotion to make new stars.
ReplyDeleteThat is what I wanted with Impact and Xplosion. During the legal battle Hulk and Immortal got Impact and Dixie got Xplosion. The roster was split accordingly.
ReplyDelete..you're a fly in the ointment, Hans. A monkey in the wrench.
ReplyDeleteI remember buying the Super X Cup tournament / War Games ppv and just being so impressed and hopeful for the promotion. Currently I have no interest in the product aside from catching it once it a while. Zero sense of urgency with the product. At least with Raw there still always a possibility something awesome will happen.
ReplyDeleteI also think that TNA should put better matches on their taped episodes of Impact. Most of them have been filler junk.. They spend all their time on the "live" show and leave giant poopstains on the taped one.
ReplyDeleteall epic fails lol....unless you want to see a grown man in a Hooters Uniform
ReplyDeleteNo I don't think The Snake should be in a ring at all....I wouldn't even have him on the road, or in a position of great authority.....but as a consultant of some sort? Or someone to get ideas from? Absolutely. Same with Raven. And Tommy Dreamer. Maybe even Bill dundee. Or Jerry Jarrett. There's plenty of good wrestling minds out there than can do as good a job (or better than) the current regime.
ReplyDeleteHe's be dancing with Broadus Clay.
ReplyDeleteIf you think Hogan's back is bad, imagine how bad Bully's back will be after he has to carry Hogan to a respectable match at this stage in the game.
ReplyDeleteSo who on the WWE roster would you target?
ReplyDeleteI don't see anybody that I would target. Triple H, Undertaker, HBK, Kane, and a few others would be a waste of time to even try. I wouldn't even WANT Cena at this point, but same for him. Brock Lesnar wouldn't be an ideal candidate. The rest? Should TNA want Sheamus? ADR? Swagger?
Truthfully, I would break the bank to get Punk the next time his contract is up (if its even possible). Other than he, and maybe Zack Ryder, and possibly Christian, nobody on the WWE roster would be able to make a difference....and those that would would have to drop their name and gimmick.
In the meantime, TNA needs to....
- Get the best tag teams, X-Division, and Knockouts available (stuff WWE isnt doing)....to this point, I would sign all the divas that can work (Beth Phoenix, Melina, etc. not necessarily Kelly Kelly lol)....and Haas and Benjamin (Team Angle)
- Take what the WWE has done with Ryback, and give Samoa Joe the same treatment (only better and not ruin his push at the end)
- Pick a date within the next 3 months, and find a way to END ACES AND 8s.
- Find Marty Brown, and bring him in as a "mystery partner" and give him whatever type of schedule he wants. Remember: 7-8 years ago, he was by far their best prospect for the future....and they blew it. TNA loyalists would pop for that one.
So you think Zach Ryder would do more for TNA then Cena?!?!
ReplyDeleteAlso wasn't the thing with Shelton that while he was a great worker, he had that kind of "D-Lo" thing where he'd occasionally slip on the top rope, botch a dive, or some other kind of mental error that made him sort of dangerous to work with?
ReplyDeletei agree with the playoffs bringing a ding to the rating but at this point 1.1 for 5 years aint cutting it.
ReplyDeleteit was cool in 2008, but in 2013 you have had NO VIEWER GROWTH? That means a couple of things.
1. creative stagnation.
2. No promotion.
While there has been great stretches of shows and very good booking, i will focus more on #2. THats where Hogan/Bischoff and co are supposed to shine.
They have done NOTHING to enhance to popularity of the product in 3 years.
They havent dipped the viewership but they have broadened it either. To me thats a problem. Because if they dont grow... they will ultimately give up and leave.
if Spike was all that viable a brand name Dish Network wouldn't have moved the channel into the purgatory that is the 240 area with home shopping networks, religious stations, and the Rural Farm network. Don't underestimate the impact (no pun intended) of the many viewers who never even look at the program guide past channel 200 (or if they are news junkies, channel 215) and the lack of faith that Dish showed in Spike by doing this. You don't move a network to that channel area if you are a big believer in their long term health.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone considered launching a kick-starter to throw untold gobs of money at Stone Cold, JR, Mick Foley, and Lance Storm to start a promotion/take over TNA?
ReplyDeleteThree of them are under contract to WWE.
ReplyDeleteYea, and it ended up being very good.
ReplyDeleteHulk rules brother!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI think of it from a hip hop hip standpoint:
ReplyDeleteA rapper (let's use Ross) has a core fan base of 300,000 people. First 3 albums sell around that mark. Somewhere along the line he stumbles onto a crossover hit which gets decent commercial airplay. Now he has a gold album and a platinum single. He gets backing from a bigger label and they wants him to to come up with another hit. if he:
a.) caters to the record label, he loses his core group of fans and gets called a sell out.
b.) caters to his core fans he loses the commercial groupies and will most likely lose his record deal.
It somewhat applys in this case. TNA appears to have chosen option b. Even though it has brought in new people but kept their business model the same. (like having a guest feature on an album) It's a hard decision to make. If you pick one course you can go back.
No. It started off very good.
ReplyDeleteECW once it became a chance to showcase younger stars I very much enjoyed.
ReplyDeleteWWE was there for 3 years when it was called Spike.
ReplyDeleteHEY-OH!
ReplyDeleteI do yes.
ReplyDeleteLook a few years ago TNA signed Jeff Hardy when he was clearly the second most popular wrestler and merchandise mover in the world and ratings didn't budge at all (and in fact they got creamed going head to head) so Cena would probably be about the same result.
Whereas Ryder is young, hungry and as his Internet show demonstrated incredibly creative. He got himself super-over completely on his own in 2011 on YouTube. Imagine what he could do with a company that actually supported his talents on network television.
Yeah, because that worked out great for the AWA and WCCW...
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't ECW and that's my point, hence why they eventually killed it off. This isn't rocket science you know.
ReplyDeleteEven if the WWE supported Ryder, he was going to be upper midcard at best. If you think Zack Ryder is more valuable to TNA than John Cena, with all due respect, that makes you an idiot.
ReplyDeleteRyder jumping would be the poor mans equivalent of the Christian jump from years ago, this did NOTHING for the ratings. Christian I believe was coming off a title reign. As Flair4Dagold puts it "if you think Ryder is more valuable to TNA then Cena, with all due respect that makes you an idiot"
ReplyDeleteHey if we can talk about CM Punk jumping ship, I can fantasize about my fantasy booking team!
ReplyDeleteUnfair, since Shelton clearly did not give a quarter of a fuck about working in ROH and was basically just keeping himself busy in between Japanese tours.
ReplyDeleteShane did consulting work with UFC that lead to them expanding their product lines and getting their items available in Walmart, which made a lot of money for them, I heard.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna add that to that "shows I wish i'd been at" thread because, if ECW was really going to be something serious, i'd have tried to resurrect the old ECW spirit by hucking chairs in the ring during that match.
ReplyDeleteI've said that for a long time. They'll always tread water trying to match up with Raw, but they could have a serious shot at beating Smackdown.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was funny to see Batista pissed at the fans for shitting on the match. "Same Old Shit!" was hilarious.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is, who is their "core" audience? Frankly this core audience traditionally hasn't paid for tickets to watch their show. I don't know enough about their PPV buys or merchandise sales, but it just seems like this core audience isn't worth holding onto.
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, I'm not even sure they ARE catering to their core audience. They already ditched their trademark ring design. And virtually all of their "home grown" talent are pushed aside for WWE cast offs.
It's already been said but it bears repeating. You think RYDER could conceivably make a difference....but you wouldn't want CENA? That makes Triple H hate look tame.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but if Christian, Kurt Angle, and HULK HOGAN couldn't make a difference in their ratings, Zack Ryder -- tremendous treatment or not -- doesn't have a snowball's chance.
ReplyDelete