Hey Scott, any idea what the original plan was for Dolph Ziggler pre-concussion? It seems as though they've temporarily moved him out of the title picture again to maybe make way for a Del Rio/RVD feud. Was the plan always to have Ziggler lose the title back to Del Rio and stick him in a feud with Langston instead? Also while I'm at it, do the people in charge believe in Ziggler's all-round ability the way we do? Because I don't recall anyone of prominence speaking particular highly of him the way they do Bryan, Punk etc. Thanks
Well it couldn't have been too long-term because they wanted Del Rio to be the big Latino babyface star for the next generation and such. I know they really like Ziggler but I don't know how much, if any, they trust in him as a big star, as evidenced by the constant jobs and total non-protection. I think they're trying for that 95 Shawn vibe where they make him a sympathetic babyface and create demand for the chase until he wins the Rumble. It's kind of a weird vibe though because Dolph is kind of an unlikable dick thus far. Although Dolph getting screwed over by a crazy ex is something that guys of the target age can relate to, at least. The AJ stuff seems long-term enough that Dolph's title loss was probably planned beforehand, I'd guess.
'It's kind of a weird vibe though because Dolph is kind of an unlikable dick thus far.'
ReplyDeletethis. dolph entertains me in the ring, but as a character, he's a touch too smarmy. the most people truly rallied behind him was the cash-in and the match where he lost
I'm pretty sure it would appeal more to the target age if he kept sleeping with the crazy hot chick, which is what they all fantasize about anyway.
ReplyDeleteI neither need nor want faces to be all smiley and shit, but Dolph as a face is bombing for me because he's still pretty much a douche. I don't feel compelled to get behind him in the whole AJ situation, because he knew she was a psycho bitch from the jump. Essentially, other than his ability in the ring, there is no good reason for anyone to get behind Dolph's character.
ReplyDeleteAside from his time with the Rockers, Shawn was an unlikable dick as well. The women went crazy for him though and the guys respected his in-ring skills. I think Dolph is one puzzle piece away from being a megastar, but what he needs.. I have no idea...
ReplyDeleteThey've tried a chick, they've tried a bodyguard....maybe he needs ONE spectacular match similar to the ladder match at Wrestlemania 10.
ReplyDeleteWWE's relationship logic is that once a relationship begins, the context in which it began is to be completely forgotten and we're to expect both parties to behave like normal people in a relationship. Hence, when Kane more or less raped Lita, but then got to marry her because of the stipulation of a match, we were then supposed to just consider their marriage to be as valid as anyone else's, and be on Kane's side when that awful bitch Lita turned on him and hooked up with Edge.
ReplyDeleteDolphin Ziggler will never be a Main Event guy with that name. Keep him off tv for 3 to 6 months and brink him back with the name Dirk Diggler. Now you have a star!
ReplyDeleteI think he would have retained the title in the originally scheduled ladder match, and then moved on to the feud with Del Rio. I think the double turn was planned post WM.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, maybe it's nostalgia colouring my perception, but Shawn seemed like more of a cocky, lovable dick while Dolph is just... smarmy and whiny. It's the little things, like his voice is too high, and his "street wear" isn't intimidating at all. Plus having him run away can be problematic if they go to that well too many times (like, more than once).
ReplyDeleteI think he just needs some time to find his babyface character and hopefully they'll let him have it. But so far it's been... lacking.
When they turned Shawn face, they turned him super-duper-smiley-and-high-fiving-little-kids face. Very different from Dolph's current character. Who you were before a face turn doesn't usually matter very much.
ReplyDeleteHe's still HEELZiggler on Twitter for God's sake!
ReplyDeleteOOOOOOOOOOH YEAHHHHHHHH!!! THE LEADER OF THE NEW GENERATION, THE HEARRRRRTBREAK KID, SHAWN MICHAELS.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, I hated face Michaels so much as a kid.
ReplyDeleteAlso see, McMahon, Stephanie and Helmsley, Hunter.
ReplyDeleteCross-reference WWE relationship logic with most of their Face-Heel dynamics, really.
ReplyDeleteI get the sense they would have continued with the Del Rio "face of the people" experiment for awhile longer. They have played with Ziggler and AJ being the "power couple of the WWE" for a little bit before Ziggler loses the title to Del Rio after a few more title defenses. Then Ziggler starts feuding with Big E after blaming him for losing the title, only in this version Big E is the face (frankly Big E comes across as a likable and seems like a more natural face than heel). Meanwhile Del Rio would lose his title to Money in the Bank winner, Damien Sandow (I believe that was planned all along). This makes me think that the current plan is for Ziggler to win the title from Del Rio only to lose it to Sandow.
ReplyDeleteWell said. We cheer him because of his talent and ability to entertain us in the ring. As a character though, he's a dickish tool. Tweak that aspect of him and he would be take off.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Dolph could get adopted by the Wyatts
ReplyDeleteWow that's a lot of down votes. What no "Boogie Nights" fans on here?
ReplyDeleteI mean, most WWE babyfaces are a mix of douche to varying degrees, but Dolph is literally all douche. Cena does some shitty stuff, but he at least is honorable and is nice to kids. Sheamus is a smiley jack-off but he's brave.
ReplyDeleteDolph has NOTHING, he's treacherous, racist, rude and all together smug. When the nicest thing you've done is dumping your GF (who is entirely responsible for all of your success) in a not totally disrespectful manner...you've fucked up at creating a likable character.
I doubt that. I think Sandow will end up losing his MITB case to Cody Rhodes.
ReplyDeleteHmmm, I haven't gotten to the wedding episode yet, or the episode where she explains everything to Vince, but I SWORE she said that she was in on the wedding to Hunter from the beginning?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, every time Mania rolls around, all the "true" main eventers come back and Ziggler is stuck in a five minute multi-man match that no one remembers.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that explanation didn't really fit with her behavior leading up to the "wedding" and how the whole thing went down. Worked out in the end, as an angle, but it was pretty ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Dolph can team up with Miz to be the douchiest face team of all time.
ReplyDeleteWhile the Sandow-Rhodes feud is about how Sandow won the MITB case, I doubt he is going to lose the actual contract to Rhodes. Sandow will cash in at some point. Besides the MITB case should not be something that should be passed around like a hot potato.
ReplyDeleteThey're both from Cleveland.
ReplyDeleteIt all makes sense now. You know who else is from Cleveland? The Fuj~! lol...
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Amy Schumer is not amused
ReplyDeleteFuj can manage, they can call the trio the Cleveland Steamers.
ReplyDeleteAJ is Rollergirl.
ReplyDeleteAnd Big E. is Philip Seymour Hoffman.
ReplyDelete"I'm a fuckin' idiot... a fuckin' idiot... fuckin' idiot!"
So people complain when heel traits are removed and a face becomes goody goody, but also complain when Dolph changes nothing from the act that people were getting behind?
ReplyDeleteWrestling.
Shawn was still an asshole as a face.
ReplyDeletePretty sure the whole point of his name is that it sounded like Dirk Diggler.
ReplyDeleteFYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Schumer
ReplyDeleteI don't think people were really getting behind Dolph cause of his character the way they got behind heels like Austin/Rock/Batista/Orton/Punk because of theirs. I think this was a case of a guy being really talented and people latching on to that. In Dolph's case I think you *do* need to tweak his actual character to make him either more likeable or more 'cool'. Cause right now he's douchey, smarmy, skinny jeans-wearing babyface who's kinda a coward (running away from a fight).
ReplyDeleteAustin was a no-nonsense ass kicker loner. Batista was the same (minus the loner part). Orton was a sociopath with a short fuse. Punk was the "Voice of the Voiceless" who stood up to Vince McMahon. The only one whose character doesn't sound like a great babyface on paper is The Rock, but the performer was just so fucking funny/charismatic that he made it work, and Ziggler is no Rock (no one is).
Except it wasn't just Dolph winning the title fans cheered for, it was also 'I deserve this' as a promo afterwards; which was incredibly smug and 'I give no fucks.' And as for running away from a fight... he hired Big E as his muscle; I'd have to say it'd be weird for Dolph to suddenly be 'meh' over Big E's toughness.
ReplyDeleteHe could have been disappointed with E's job performance.
ReplyDeleteAnd that there is the biggest problem with Wrestlemania now. All the guys they should be building/pushing are sent to the midcard matches so they has beens can come back and take valuable time and spots from the future. We don't need Rock/HHH/Taker at Mania, nor do we need Austin or any other legend/part timer involved in anything more then the Hall of Fame or a quick skit. Save the big matches for the guys who work all year round.
ReplyDeleteNever thought I'd see an Amy Schumer reference on here. I love it!
ReplyDeleteRandy Savage was still a psychotic dickhead when he turned face; he just fought against guys people didn't like. Maybe Ziggler needs to have a mental breakdown and be possessed by the spirit of Ultimate Warrior or something.
ReplyDelete