"And then if Orton screws him out of the belt immediately afterwards, all the better. " Recently, while discussing the possibility of Orton's cash-in on Bryan, you said you believed WWE would go all the way with Bryan's push, cause they know they need a top guy. You even mentioned they want to put him at Punk's level. However, I'd like you to clarify, why do you think Orton screwing him over can help?
With the fans now completely on Bryan's side, fueled by VKM antics, shouldn't be the time to do the opposite? To give him a solid title reign with the WWE title, like they did with Punk? (of course I don't think they'll give a 400 days type of reign to Bryan, but you get my point)
I'd like you to clarify this, thank you!
ecause that's actual "We want this person to get his revenge on this other person" heat instead of their usual "go away heat" or token boos or "cool heel" heat where people actually like the character. Just like Dolph got screwed out of the World title and now people actually WANT to see him chase the belt again and get his revenge. It'll be all the more amplified because Bryan worked SO hard to get this far and he's such an underdog story and people are gonna be PISSED at Orton for unjustly stealing the belt from him and killing his title reign. That's the heel turn they've been putting off for so long now and that's a real thing that people can relate to. Bryan can always win it for real in a couple of months like Punk did, but honestly it's just as important to cement Orton as a top heel who people can HATE as it is making Bryan a top babyface, and really this accomplishes both things in one shot.
Orton trys to cash in, but then the Warrior's music hits. The Warrior runs in, gives Orton a clothesline, and a gorilla press slam. Then the Warrior stares down Bryan and points at the title belt, setting up Warrior/Bryan at Wrestlemania 30!
ReplyDeleteBryan's popularity is dependent on him being the best wrestler in the world. As long as that is still happening, he will still be popular.
ReplyDeleteBetter scenario....
ReplyDeleteLeading to Summerslam, Brock Lesner threatens to no-show if he is not given the main event slot. So he gets it......
At Summerslam, Bryan beats Cena, but Orton cashes in but rather than a slam dunk, Orton loses a long dragged out fight for the belt with the closing shot at Summerslam for Bryan is him standing tall and having beaten both Cena and Orton in two long matches. Which in turn allows them to have the show itself end with Brock massacring Punk and setting up the chase for Punk going after a gauntlet of men to get his rematch at WM with Brock.
(Sidenote: for Heyman and Brock's stable: RVD, John Morrison since he has history with Punk, and Zach Ryder, who eventually turns on Heyman and company because they treat him like a servant and Punk eventually inspires him to turn against Heyman; which also in turn gives RVD someone to ultimately put over on his way out the door eventually)
I'm not gonna lie; that would be a fucking turn for Orton and make me want to pay $$$ to see Bryan kick his ass.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of $$$, still on the fence about going to LA to Summerslam. I'm between jobs at the moment, but Bryan/Cena + Punk/Lesnar feels like it's worth the trip to SoCal and the $100ish ticket.
Also, Miz vs Bryan is something they can do that would be better than Bryan/Orton in terms of narrative. Miz snaps and goes heel again at the knowledge that Bryan is world champion and seeks to destroy him.
ReplyDeleteThe two have a blood feud thing that has been dropped in the last year but has a great deal of potential to bring back up. Especally if they go the route of Vince and Steph supporting Miz and Miz playing the two-faced prima donna type corporate yes man Vince and Steph have spent years looking for.
Everybody knows you never go full Baker....
ReplyDeleteI hope Bryan never has to feud with Miz ever again.
ReplyDeleteI'd even have Orton/cena feud for a couple of ppvs, and have Bryan have to 'earn' a rematch. Maybe by having to beat punk?
ReplyDeleteIt would finally give Orton what he's wanted for a while now, a full heel turn, and it would give Bryan a great storyline to work with in the chase for revenge on Orton. I would say this would ultimately be a reward for Bryan, who could get over even more by taking on a full fledged heel, rather than Orton, who would probably have his last chance to prove himself and not screw it up by indulging in some extracurricular chemical activities.
ReplyDeleteOne flaw in this reasoning....while Orton will be booed for cashing in on Bryan because DB is so popular, that might not be enough to completely turn Orton heel. He'll just "opportunistic." While almost all heels have won the briefcases and cashed them in when the champ has been hurt (and while noble faces like Cena and RVD give advance notice of when they're taking their title matches), the fact that WWE promotes and endorses the "any time!" aspect of the on-the-spot cash-in means that using the case against a weakened champion doesn't make it a heel act in and of itself.
ReplyDeleteUnless WWE uses this instance to drive home the fact that the "cheap" cash-in is a strictly heel move, then Orton still needs something else to really make himself into a dick. The scenario of Bryan beating Cena, then BEATING Orton when he tries a cash-in, only to have an irate Orton snap and punt kick him would do it. That would put Orton clearly in the wrong for being a sore loser.
Not really. Only hardcore fans really care about his in-ring ability.
ReplyDeleteTo really big a big star, he has to appeal to casual fans. Which he does. He's extremely popular with little kids, and I'm guessing they're more into the "yes!" chants and his goat-like beard than his in-ring skills.
"Just like Dolph got screwed out of the World title and now people actually WANT to see him chase the belt again and get his revenge."
ReplyDeleteHave they moved Ziggler away from the title already, because they seem to have moved him onto Langston. Very glad that Ziggler won the case, spent a year jobbing, fluked his way into the title, got concussed by Swagger the Giant Moron, immediately dropped the title upon returning, and now has nothing to show for anything. Meanwhile, Alberto Del Rio is on his second heatless title reign this year. Wrestling isn't fair.
I love the way Scott puts it. So it'll never happen.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy your fued with Bray Wyatt.
No! Anything involving Miz is doomed to failure. He's a talentless piece of shit with no business in a wrestling ring.
ReplyDeleteBingo. They should take this chance to retool Randy's entire character. Go back to the evil preppy persona, the egotist who did his own rehab update bits and who had a full head of hair and who was sucking up to HHH as part of Evolution.....
ReplyDeleteI'd bet money Ziggler is the favorite to win the rumble right now so I'm not really worried about him skipping out on a world title reign.
ReplyDeleteHere's me if Cena wins both matches:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.arwrath.com/content/1/103948.gif
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Ned-Flanders-Is-Sent-To-Insane-Asylum-On-The-Simpsons.gif
Uh...good wrestling involves getting the casuals into your match. It's not just about how many suplexes you know. But also the art of entertainment, which includes pacing and crowd involvement.
ReplyDeleteHe is the best worker in the world. And as long as he continues to be the best worker in the world, he will still be popular because he will make himself be popular.
RKO, kick-out, Punt, kick-out, another punt, win.
ReplyDeleteYeah but even they must love it when he busts out his own moves of doom - the running dropkicks to the corner, the kicks, etc. Little kids getting smarked up and they don't even know it
ReplyDeleteCena wins both and then Matt Morgan comes and powerbombs Cena through the ringmat. ;)
ReplyDeleteHe'd get 1989-1991 Sid cheers for that
ReplyDeleteLike I said, the fact that we are all assuming there's no way Bryan is losing, he'll lose
ReplyDeleteI like the first paragraph. And maybe the second one.
ReplyDeleteBryan would invite Joe Biden to sit ringside. Warrior would see him, go on a 30 minute Youtube rant outside the ring, and Bryan wins by countout.
ReplyDeleteSomebody's jelly!
ReplyDeleteZiggler seems much less over as a face as a face then he is over as a face as a heel. In other words, he has Lex Luger Syndrome.
ReplyDelete"Just like Dolph got screwed out of the World title"
ReplyDeleteProbably a nitpick... but how exactly did Dolph get screwed? He lost a match to someone taking advantage of a weakness...
I think if you don't know that you're being "smarked" up, you're actually being "marked" up, no?
ReplyDeleteI almost backed out at "Better scenario...." but I just couldn't help myself. :: Shudders ::
ReplyDeleteYeah that would work. The punt is the most protected finisher in the business IMO
ReplyDeleteZiggler bumping around like a mad man for 30 minutes in the Rumble would be awesome.
ReplyDeletedown-votes are cool. Im just saying its ridiculous that every bit of talk for SummerSlam is "When Bryan beats Cena, Orton will do this". It's too much
ReplyDeleteMaybe Scott meant the rematch at Money in the Bank where AJ 'inadvertently' screwed him out of the title?
ReplyDeleteIt would similar to when Punk cashed in on Jeff Hardy back in 2009. It began Punk's pretty awesome heel run with the Straight Edge gimmick. An Orton cash in at SummerSlam, on Bryan only mind you, would be an even bigger heel turn due to Bryan's popularity right now. A Bryan/Cena/Orton, with Bryan coming out on top at a Survivor Series blow-off, would cement DB as a WrestleMania-level main eventer.
ReplyDeleteMan, I just watched that Cesaro-Bryan match again. That series where Cesaro just kept giving him European uppercuts was insane as was near the end of the match when Daniel was giving him forearms (particularly when Daniel tied him up and dropped forearms from the top).
ReplyDeleteSince adopted by Randy Orton
ReplyDeleteSo, this got uploaded to YouTube:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEW2pniB8VQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Kizuna Road 2013. Any chance for a review, Scott?
I agree, have Orton cash in and steal the title from Bryan, but I would go with the path laid out here yesterday, where Orton causes a DQ and then beats Cena for the belt.
ReplyDeleteThen, since Bryan never won (and lost) the title, he wouldn't be due a rematch.
So, Orton and Maddox (and Vince) would then have Bryan be forced to earn his shot through a series of matches, and eventually winning the Rumble. I would have Bryan finally get the gold at Mania to cement him as the man.
I think he'll go back into the title picture in time for night of champions or whatever the september ppv is called. I would assume they didn't want Ziggler's title win to be shuffled down in the mid card like it would be on Summerslam, plus him still being aligned with BigE and AJ (noticable heels) was pretty much the one thing holding him in the heel territory, at least this way he gets a win, big E is seen as legit and he's 100% face heading into his eventual title win.
ReplyDeleteI really hate this idea - it can only end the same way that "Summerslam, 2011" did, with Punk (Bryan) cooling off and ADR (Orton) being the "company choice" that the fans aren't interested in.
ReplyDeleteI've seen Faceoff more times than any sane person ever should. I have no idea why I like that movie as much as I do.
ReplyDeleteKeith gets it...this is why his name is on the blog.
ReplyDeleteSummerslam ends with Randy Orton getting pelted with trash and beer, being booed out of the building ala Nitro in 97.
ReplyDeleteGood visual at the least.
Were your parents freaky beatniks?
ReplyDelete'Just like Dolph got screwed out of the World title and now people
ReplyDeleteactually WANT to see him chase the belt again and get his revenge.'
except theyre not doin' that with dolph. the world title is really an afterthought to him now, and his focus is aj/big e
your comment about face cashing in and becoming a heel raises an interesting point:
ReplyDeleteis it possible for a heel to cash in an an even bigger heel and turn face in the process?
I would certainly think this could happen. The problem is that I don't think there are enough "monster" heels in that if they were to become champion, the audience would be clamoring for them to lose the title. I think if someone like Brock Lesnar were to win the title, and then a
ReplyDelete"heel", in the sense that Bray Wyatt or Dean Ambrose are heels, were to cash-in, I think a face turn of some sort would come from that. But it
would take a special scenario. I don't think Sandow cashing in on Del
Rio turns Sandow face. There has to be more heat on the champ.
Here's an interesting hypothetical question: what if a "cool heel" were to cash in on John Cena at this point?? Does that heel become somewhat of a babyface? Because, let's face it, the only person I could see a large person of the audience wanting to see lose a championship is Cena. Take Mark Henry for example. A "cool heel" beat up on Cena just enough to get the anti-Cena crowd behind him. Now, even after tapping out at MITB, Henry is a legit babyface. A briefcase holder with Mark Henry, pre-MITB type of heat could definitely get cemented as a babyface with a cash-in on Cena at this point.
it would have to be a case where people are sick to death of the heel champ.
ReplyDeletethink hhh in '03, hollywood hogan, or shane douglas any time in ecw
I hope no one ever has to feud with Miz again.
ReplyDeleteYeah, man. I'll down vote you FOR HAVING A LEGITIMATE POINT! That's how this Disqus stuff works, right?
ReplyDeleteHere's a scary thought: what if the fans CHEER Orton for his cash-in? They're in LA, right? That tends to be not as smarky unlike the East Coast cities and Chicago. So what if the fans actually pop for Orton winning the belt? What then?
ReplyDeleteprobably won't be
ReplyDeleteAs much as I would hate Bryan not getting the belt till then, this would actually be the most awesome scenario.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I noted earlier. Orton is VERY popular (as stale as we all find him), the MITB cash-in is an inherently exciting event that fans always cheer for (hell, they even cheered Miz cashing in on Orton) and Orton has already "called his shot" in saying straight-up that the champion won't see the cash-in coming, i.e. a post-match challenge.
ReplyDeleteThe better scenario for a heel turn would be if Orton LOSES his cash-in and then goes nuts attacking champion Bryan, since it would make him look like a sore loser and get him booed like crazy.
Or to wait to cash it in after a Bryan match in a smark stronghold city like Chicago or anywhere in the northeast. Is Bryan still being billed as being from Aberdeen? It'd be kind of funny to use WWE's "no one wins in their hometown" rule as a way of deflating a home state Washington crowd (in Seattle).
ReplyDeleteWhat a strange thing to down vote.
ReplyDeleteIs it just me or anyone else hoping TNA goes under just so it frees scott up to review NJPW?
ReplyDeleteI think Bryan taking a few weeks off to build up hype. Maybe play it up that he has potentially career ending injury. He comes out (in a suit), cuts a promo about all the pain and hardship and how he finally had the chance to hold the WWE title. But that's over now and he's 'okay' with that, because he's coming home (Shout-out to Brie Bella).
ReplyDeleteAnd then say something about wanting to forgive Orton, cause he's also kicked people's heads in. Orton comes out, smug as hell, Bryan talks about doing similar things in his situation. And then goes to leave the ring, turns around and hits him with a suicide dive. Big brawl, main-event for NoC (with maybe Cena involved as well).
Dolph also "screwed" his way into a title as well, so all's fair.
ReplyDeleteRandom thought...will we ever see a cash in at WM? The fact that its on a WM stage, will be a pretty long stretch for a person holding the briefcase, a cash in always generated huge heat due to its spontaneous nature, and especially if its a face cashing in on a heel would make for a phenomenal spectacle.
ReplyDeleteI doubt we'll see one though, since Vince believes in straightforward match promotion, especially on the WM stage.
We've tried nothin', and we're all out of i-de-uhs!
ReplyDeleteIt's so stupid and insane that it reverts back in quality.
ReplyDeleteYeah, itts laid out pretty nicely. If Bryan wins and Orton cashes in, then both Cena and Bryan would have claim to the "rematch" clause thing. Triple Threat at Night of Champions with Orton retaining, then head towards Orton vs Bryan for the title change. Orton as cocky corporate suit works for me.
ReplyDeleteSome people are just here to be contrarion
ReplyDeleteEn route to Bryan vs Ziggler?
ReplyDeleteThe world needs ditch diggers too
ReplyDeleteSo a jobber and a guy who doesn't work there are gonna join the Brock Lesnar stable?
ReplyDeleteI'd be fine with him going out there and jobbing in under 3 minutes like Ryder (who is also terrible), but keep him off the mic and away from any significant storyline.
ReplyDeleteYour concern is understandable. The Orton turn needs to exist as a catalyst for making Bryan a megastar, not for Orton's long term benefit. If they shift the focus to Orton and, god forbid, Vince/HHH (again) then the scenario you mention is very possible.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind seeing the Shield allign with Vince & Orton as corporate enforcers/Horsemen style protectors. Gives Bryan some guys to fight back up through the ranks before getting to Orton
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen it yet, especially back when they had MITB at Wrestlemania. Have a dude with the briefcase to open the show, then cash in on one of the champs later on in the show?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's too early... at Wrestlemania, give me:
ReplyDeleteWWE Champion Daniel Bryan vs. World Heavyweight Champion CM Punk for both titles
John Cena vs. The Undertaker
Brock Lesnar vs. Dave Batista
Triple H vs. Vince McMahon, for control of WWE (so HHH doesn't have to ruin anyone else)