Just watched the Cesaro/Zayn match that is getting a lot of buzz...and based on your comments, I'm interested in your comments on this. Cesaro seems like an obvious pick if they're interested in doing a new Evolution style stable. Do you think he's been ruined already by his association with Dutch and Swagger, or is there still hope? I feel like he could play the Windham/Orton/Rock role pretty well, and then could be pushed to the main event. On a related note, Christian seems like an obvious candidate for the old veteran tag team role. Who would you want to put with him to give them a big push?
Am I getting so old that Evolution is considered a classic stable now? I know it's my 39th birthday next week, but shit, man.
I think the Orton/HHH thing is more a Corporation type deal than Evolution. And Cesaro would be PERFECT as an impeccably dressed HHH lackey, plus you can do the idea I've been advocating for years and stick Jack Swagger in a sharp business suit so he can stand in the ring and look imposing and not have to talk. BOOK THAT SHIT LEVESQUE.
Yeah, I don't get the Evolution2 talk either. It's definitely more Corporation style. And the Outlaws HAVE to be the new stooges. I will not let this go, it needs to happen.
ReplyDeleteFrom what it looks like, I wouldn't be surprised if Brad Maddox plays the stooge role.
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of Cesaro as a hired gun in the corporate stable with an eventual push to the upper ranks of the roster, but keep Swagger far away from the whole thing. Just cannot get into that dude at all.
ReplyDeleteI would not be opposed to the Outlaws being the new stooges.
ReplyDeleteBOOK IT
I have been a proponent of Swaggers for years.
ReplyDeleteThe dude can work.
The problem is Vince wants everybody to talk via scripted promos but even with those scripts, they dont correctly convey. And they are only gonna be carried out by the talent (or lack thereof) of the performer.
Just have Swagger stand there and look like a beast. No bullshit. No nothing. Just stand there, come through and hit power move after power move.
He will get over.
I think Swagger and Cesaro make a great team, they just need to ditch Zeb and the gimmick.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, Zeb is holding them back.
ReplyDeleteThey just need to be two guys in suits roughhousing people when the bell rings.
And doing it for HHH's Corporation would be cool.
Or go the other way and turn them babyface and making them over the top real all Americans complete with rip off Angle tights.
ReplyDeleteI could fuck with that, but I think it would so over the top that they would get boo'ed curing any promo time, but win the crowd back with their work.
ReplyDeleteEvolution was 10 years ago. Started in early 2003. That's past the 7 year cycle. Plus it's passes the "era" test also. Evolution/HHH era led into the Cena era. It's not too early, we're all just old.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be better as Evolution instead of as the corporate hybrid. Like someone mentioned on this blog before, Evolution worked both storyline wise and business wise. The 2 "younger" (Batista was already nearing his 40s but whatever) guys both became made men and main eventers.
I'm think a tag team version of doofus Kurt Angle but are killers in the ring. Angle was over HUGE with that gimmick. And Cesaro would be hysterical in that role as a foreigner.
ReplyDeleteHe was only a doofus for about a year.
ReplyDeleteOnce he dropped that part of the gimmick and went "BIG FIGHT" Kurt Angle is when I really started paying attention to him.
Cesaro and Swagger shouldn't be stuck with that for too long cuz of the booking of them thus far.
I wouldnt want them to type-casted in a role like that, cuz Cesaro is just a monster.
He was a doofus for way longer than that. That big fight stuff was only in his last year or two.
ReplyDeleteFor me, once he did the NWO '01 match with Rocky, that was it.
ReplyDeleteCesaro is decent and all, but I'm really into progress, so I think, if anyone, Darren Young needs to be in the group. Then he can be the first openly homosexual wrestler to join a stable. I love the Swiss Mr. as much as the next fan, but this is 2013 guys; we need to start bringing the walls down.
ReplyDeleteEven into the summer of '01, though, Austin was complaining about Angle's goofiness, and Vince said something to the effect of, "yeah, he's a dork, but he's *our* dork". Once Austin joined the Alliance, though, Angle pretty much took up the mantle of leader of the WWE side, and that was about it for the goofiness. Hell, he was beating Austin with a pipe, then blindfolding and abducting him, by fall of that year.
ReplyDeleteCesaro is the most underappreciated worker in the company right now. Would love to see him in a bigger role.
ReplyDeleteSpraying wrestlers with a milk truck is pretty fucking goofy if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteDarren Young is terrible. I'm all for bringing the walls down when they guy is actually good at his job.
ReplyDeleteI totally forgot about the InVasion.
ReplyDeleteI totally forgot about the InVasion. I blanked that shit out.
ReplyDeleteAs everyone should. It was like a rape.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. He always had a tinge of goofy throughout his run--but it wasn't until mid 2001 when he was really gassed and having badass matches that people started to take him legitimately. I saw him as a beast after king of the ring 01. Then of course they goof him up again while he was recovering from some back damage in summer 01.
ReplyDeleteSwagger's moves look great and all, but I think he's one of those guys who just doesn't understand wrestling. I don't see any sense of purpose to what the guy does in the ring.
ReplyDeleteThere are three types of guys: Guys who are students and understand psychology immediately (Shawn Michaels, Flair), the guys that take 10 years before being any good at all (Orton, Mark Henry) and the prodigies that are blessed (The Rock, Angle).
Swagger falls under the second.
Why do people have such a hard-on for Evo? Yeah, it eventually made stars out of Orton and Big Dave, but may I remind everyone HOW FUCKING BORING RAW WAS FOR EIGHTEEN MONTHS with that shit? And that was back when RAW didn't have a couple of good 15-minute matches a night like we get now.
ReplyDeleteI also think Young should share an in ring kiss with Randy Orton. It's the 21st century; it's time for the WWE champion to lock lips with another man in the middle of the squared circle. We need to move forward if we ever want to rise upward.
ReplyDeleteI like gay foursomes so I like the last part.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, until they feuded with Rock n' Sock, Evolution didn't do anything stable-y. Then again, nothing of much note happened on Raw in 2003.
When's the last time we had a love triangle angle? With men, I mean. It's 2013 for Chrissakes, the demographics want to see it.
ReplyDeletePeople took him legitimately immediately, it was the goofier side that got him so mega over.
ReplyDeleteBilly Gunn: "I did it boss, I beat Wade Barrett!"
ReplyDeleteTriple H: "What? I told you to beat up Kofi!"
Billy Gunn: "Wuh-oh..."
Triple H: "BILLYGUUUUUUNN!!!"
*Gilligan's Island theme*
His goofier side got him over with crowds but it did not make him a main event draw. Comedy doesn't selling main events
ReplyDeleteTouche.
ReplyDeleteEvolution disbanded over 8 years ago... the 7 year rule Scott, remember?
ReplyDeleteThey really should go all the way with "Evolution" this time by having Ric Flair carry the ashes of Buddy Rogers in an urn while riding Buddy Landel like a horse.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Jericho have to do with Darren Young? o_O
ReplyDeleteI don't know. The Rock was kind of an insult comic.
ReplyDelete$$$$$$$$
ReplyDeletethey brought in some wcw guy
ReplyDeletegoldstein, i think his name was
Cut to Haitch smacking Gunn with his hat.
ReplyDeleteAs long as Dutch gets a new pair of midcard guys, this is all well and good. I still would like to see Scott Armstrong used as the reluctant ref pressured by his 'office' brother to jam D-Bry. Little side angle, Scott and Road Dogg wrestle on Raw or a minor PPV for the honor of the Armstrong name, yee haw.
ReplyDeleteI also like that WWE has an outside the ring dress code, yet on TV 90% of the guys in suits are villains.
ReplyDeleteHeels having to be in impeccable business suits because "everybody hates the one percenters" is right in their line of thinking.
ReplyDeleteI think you are thinking of Greenberg
ReplyDeleteNO I think he's thinking of Golic :P
ReplyDeleteWhy stop there? Why not have a male WWE superstar sexually harass another male WWE superstar? I mean, it happened SO much already (Adrian Adonis, Golddust, Terry Garvin (in real life)), but it's been at least 7 years and now they can portray in in a less cartoony fashion.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great comment...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
ReplyDeleteNo, Golic was in the Horsemen with Paul Roma.
ReplyDeleteI like to think it wasn't milk but loads of bull semen. Makes it less goofy and more demented.
ReplyDeleteThe visual of Flair riding Buddy Landell made me think of Homer riding Apu and Apu getting it published as a cartoon in the New Yorker with the caption, "It's been on my list for years".
ReplyDeleteWell if a new stable gets us another Motorhead song, I'm all in.
ReplyDeleteThreadjack motherfuckaaaaas... did you guys see that Meltzer is reporting a possible Goldberg WM 30 appearance/match? Does ANYONE want to see this? It would have to be a job to Ryback right?
ReplyDeleteBilly Gunn and Road Dogg in mismatched blazers and khakis bumping around is pure gold.
ReplyDeleteI thought they went back on that or at least loosened the requirements.
ReplyDeleteHe's no worse than most of the people he came up with. And at least he does some unique moves and not the goddamn Flatliner.
ReplyDeleteNever gonna happen. The dude can work? Name a Swagger match that's ever gone north of 4 stars? He just imitates the moves of better wrestlers, he has no clue what he's doing.
ReplyDeleteI did hear Goldberg say he wants to wrestle again due to his kids being old enough to watch and discovering his old matches again on youtube. I am all for a little program with Ryback.
ReplyDeleteAs long as Lemmy doesn't sing it live
ReplyDeleteI love Cesaro in this role, but Swagger is just awful and needs to be kept far, far away from any kind of main event angle. Swagger needs to wrestle Zack Ryder on Superstars. I like someone like Sheamus or Ryback for that role.
ReplyDeleteNorth of ****?
ReplyDeleteOpinions may vary but I liked his matches with Matt Hardy and Christian back in WWECW
2004 into Wrestlemania 21 was a really good time to be a fan. Evolution brought one hell of a run out The Nature Boy, and I had a damn fun time watching every second of it. Batista's ascension was also awesome. During 2004 there were numerous Raw's headlined by crazy fun tag and 6 man tag matches featuring Evolution. Stop being butt hurt about Goldberg and Booker T. Goldberg is one of the worst and most selfish workers of all time. I am shocked at all the upvotes this got.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, how dare you.
ReplyDelete(I saw them two years ago and they're the greatest single thing I've seen.)
His name is Ryback.
ReplyDeleteOnly in wrestling can someone be a "reporter" of something that is "possible".
ReplyDeleteBut honestly, if Goldberg came out for no reason and speared someone, I'd love it.
I think it was 2006/2007 when a number of guys who opposed Cena were suddenly wearing blazers. Jericho, Edge, even Orton and Kennedy randomly had blazers on. In the WWE blazers are the Flair to an over-sized t-shirts Steamboat.
ReplyDeleteIf they want to push the Neo-Con, 1% thing with Cesaro/Swagger, I think it would be perfect to have them go corporate and ally with HHH/Orton as Corporation's tag team. I think it would be even more awesome to team Cesaro & Ryback as monster heels though. Both in suits all the time, until its time to beat ass.
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying he peaked 4-5 years ago and is getting worse?
ReplyDeleteIts too late for swagger hes DOA
ReplyDeleteDbsm you're 100% correct...well put. I have not forgotten.
ReplyDeletethats EXACTLY what you are trying to get me to say.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry he hasnt had ****** (yes 6 star) matches with KENTA or other darlings from the net like your heroes, but he is completely serviceable in the ring.
On the mic, he is terrible.
That would ruin his career. He's perfect where he is, just push the ptp
ReplyDeleteSwagger was a Kurt Angle rip off to begin with, not sure why anyone would want to see him in a heel super stable.
ReplyDeleteToo late I think
ReplyDeleteThis will make you feel old...hes FUCKING 48.
ReplyDeleteHa yea. It was like those "reports" last year about how "Undertaker is considering wrestling at this years WM."
ReplyDeleteYeah but you knew what you were getting with Goldberg. They needed to bring him in and run through people. It didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteHHH & Orton refining Cesaro, Swagger, & Dutch into corporate greaseballs works for me. Call Cesaro & Swagger "Corporate America" and make them the most pretentious douchebags this side of, well...Randy Orton.
ReplyDeleteYeah I liked those two matches as well, but Christian's a really good worker and so was Hardy, although he never really got much recognition for it. I don't want to sound like I'm not giving Swagger credit where it's due, but having good matches with those guys isn't much of an accomplishment.
ReplyDeleteI don't want a new Evolution...what I want is a new NATION OF DOMINATION!
ReplyDeleteMark Henry as the leader (continuity!) with Kofi, Truth, The Prime-Time Players, Big E., the Funkadactyls and whatever black wrestler/personality I'm forgetting...
Nation...Of Domination...We Are The Nation...Of Domination...Nation...Of Domination...
But wasn't he pretty old when he started out?
ReplyDeleteSwagger also had some good matches with Cena in the past. I think they have it in their mindset that because he's so big, he should be a hoss-type wrestler instead of using his amateur and technical skills.
ReplyDeleteLive Sex Celebration?
ReplyDeleteSmell the ratings.
He started around age 30 or 31.
ReplyDeleteIm not sure. Maybe. Just the thought of him being almost 50 makes me feel old.
ReplyDelete33 when he won the belt, then. Not terrible, but certainly advanced.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair - the election style promos that were part of the Orton-Foley feud were great.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah - I don't quite get the nostalgia for them.
Yeah and Farooq can still show up every once in awhile to say "Damn!". Perfect.
ReplyDeleteOnly if it's Goldberg vs. Gillberg : Finally.
ReplyDeleteSee, 2004 was fine, because RAW was more than just Evolution after Benoit won. You mentioned all the great main events, plus all the stuff like the great Survivor Series angle and eventually the Batista turn. But from late 2002-WMXX, RAW was the exact same formula every week, no one got elevated or god forbid looked good against them, not even the guy they shelled out millions for, and that run lacked the great matches we eventually got post-WMXX.
ReplyDeleteYou know why I'm getting upvotes? Because everyone fucking agrees with me.
Henry, Big E., Truth, and maybe Titus but not Darren. Kofi just wouldn't work as a heel.
ReplyDeleteUndertaker has narrowed his decision down to working Wrestlemania or not working Wrestlemania. Sources suggest the only way Undertaker won't work the show is if he decides not to.
ReplyDeleteHe's less talented than the two guys you mentioned him having great matches with, and even they showed their weaknesses when they had to work outside the WWE system. Swagger can't even do shit inside the WWE system. Doing a few takedowns and ripping off Angle & Dr. Death doesn't make you automatically great if you can't work a match. Its like jazz, you can't just play the notes, you have to understand the theory. Swagger is just a pale imitation of a good wrestler.
ReplyDeleteActually, Goldberg never looked too bad against Evolution. Sure he got beat down a couple of times, but he also wiped the floor with the entire stable a couple of times as well.
ReplyDeleteAnd DUI.
ReplyDeleteIt was actually Nikita Koloff
ReplyDeleteIs Shane going to get involved at all? After seeing a picture of him a few months back he'd be great as the McMahon supporter of Daniel Bryan.
ReplyDeleteHa. I feel like that's the bleacher report in a nutshell
ReplyDeleteDid Lemy remember all the words?
ReplyDeleteSo basically half of what your saying is true. The first half of Evolution (2003) sucked because "Goldberg got buried". You agreed 2004 on through Batista winning the belt was great. The 2004 Raw roster was generally stronger (Jericho, Angle, Edge, a healthy Orton) vs. 2003 (Steiner, Goldberg, Booker T). Orton and Batista had various injuries in 03' and the stable wasn't really kicked into full gear until the end of 03'. Evolution made huge stars out of Orton and Batista. Flair and HBK revived their careers, and guys like Edge, Benoit, Shelton Benjamin were given an opportunity to shine against the heels. Triple H had a strong reign as champ and it meant that much more when Benoit was finally the guy to beat to him. I can't wait to hear The Game heel it up talking about this business.
ReplyDeleteMIKE ALL HE ATE WAS GOLIC BREAD! WHOOP!
ReplyDelete