Scott, whats up? 2 quickies but discussion generating questions for the doomers...
1) Was listening to a PTB podcast at the gym (edjoyed your edition by the way) and they mentioned that WWE had discussions of hot shotting Cena/Rock to WM 27, and going with that and Miz/Morrison as the top 2 matches? Was this ever REALLY an option? Seems far fetched consdering how planned out Rocks recent run was.
I was literally not even paying attention to current wrestling at that point so I have no idea how true it was, but considering that Rock needed months of lead-time to get ready for Survivor Series, I seriously doubt that was a real option.
2) They also mentioned how WM 20 should have been HHH/Benoit, Rock/HBK, and Foley/Orton. I love this PPV so have no complaints about the card but why didn't Foley/Orton have a 1-1 match? It would have been a great launching pad for Orton, as it was he kinda got overshadowed by everyone else.
I think that's exactly why they didn't do the singles match there -- because Flair and Rock were gonna steal the show in MSG and Orton would be a million spots down the card and everyone knew it, so they waited until Orton could get a proper showcase the next month and make the win over Foley mean something.
Rock didn't want to work with HBK
ReplyDeleteEven at that point? I know he hated HBK when Shawn was in his heyday.
ReplyDeleteI mean, he was only coming back for one match, why work with a guy who was always a dick to you?
ReplyDeleteI think he personally requested being involved in Foley's match
Why didn't he like HBK?
ReplyDeleteHBK was trying to bury Rock pretty much as soon as he came into the WWF in 96.
ReplyDeleteMakes sense. I loved that main event, the build between HBK and HHH was organic enough to warrant HBKs inclusion in the triple threat. Wouldnt trade it for a Rock/HBK match at that poimt in time
ReplyDeleteMiz/Morrison seemed like it going to be one of the main events of Mania, especially after his performance in that ladder match with Sheamus, and seemed like a lock for the Rumble win after his title match didn't happen at the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame they went the direction they did, the only highlight of Wrestlemania 27 was Taker coming out Johnny Cash as his entrance music. And Morrison was relegated to doing one move in that Snooki match.
If the company's really serious about getting the tag division going again, there are much worse ideas than bringing Morrison back to reunite him with Miz. It certainly beats Miz as a singles wrestler right now.
ReplyDeleteI remember Morrison looking like a star for a stretch that year. Sounds weird saying it know
ReplyDeleteI loved how the big matches worked out for XX. In fact, I wouldn't have traded most of the card for anything.
ReplyDeleteThe only things that blew were the tag title matches. The women's matches were piss breaks, Brock/Goldberg was memorable for better or worse, Cena/Show got the crowd pumped and gave Cena his first WM moment and Taker/Kane relaunched Taker's career.
Can you imagine a main event of John Morrison and The Miz at Wrestlemania?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It really seemed like he turned a corner. The Sheamus series was fantastic and made him seem like a tough bastard.
ReplyDeleteThen he had that amazing Royal Rumble spot. I thought J-mo would have been a great challenger for Miz at that time, MUCH better than Lawler.
The Lawler feud did no favors for Miz's credibility as champ btw.
Not really. But main event of a lesser ppv, maybe.
ReplyDeleteWatching "Total Divas" (yeah, yeah, I know) and Natalya is in Calgary meeting up with a friend named Jaret. For some reason, Jaret looks a helluva lot like a bald Chris Benoit. There's a joke here somewhere, but I don't think I'll go there tonight.
ReplyDeleteAt the time, I was annoyed they shoehorned HBK into the main event. Maybe cause I wanted Benoit to have the spotlight. Maybe cause I was sick of HHH-HBK by that point.
ReplyDeleteIn hindsight, HHH-Benoit just doesn't feel like a Mania main event - at all. It seems pretty clear they made the right move.
Was thinking the same thing. It was getting me uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteThey kept plugging it as "ten years in the making" between HHH and Michaels.
ReplyDeleteUnless I'm doing the math wrong they began their affiliation in 1997 and at this point it was 2004. But hey it's wrestling so close enough.
I agree, I was annoyed they shoehorned him in (funny, since it's usually HHH doing the shoehorning) but I think in retrospect, it needed a needle-mover in that match and HBK brought that extra juice that I think a vanilla HHH-Benoit wouldn't have had.
ReplyDeleteYea man, WWE math is almost as bad as Scott Steiner math.
ReplyDeleteIf the other main events were Rock/Cena and Taker/Triple H, sure. Miz wasn't even the focus of his match with Cena, all anyone cared about was Rock and Cena interacting.
ReplyDeleteI know ppl were sick of the HBK/HHH circle jerk by that point but HBKs involvement in the main event made sense for the reasons you pointed out. They had that long HHH/HBK program that made Shawns involvement seem organic - not like the cluster fuck McMahon in every corner build.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine Miz main eventing anything these days?
ReplyDelete"Yea man, WWE math isn't nearly as fucking awesome as Scott Steiner math."
ReplyDeleteFIFY
He can barely get booked on PPVs anymore.
ReplyDeleteBut see, they had a blow off at the Dec RAW... then had the LMS blow off at RR'04 IIRC...
ReplyDeleteSo at that point, it was HHH/HBK overload, and without either one turning (which I think they missed out on) it was redundant.
It was time for a new challenger.
It should have been HHH/Benoit at WM20 and Backlash
HBK at the next RAW PPV
Then the 3 way at Summerslam
I understand Brock flaking took his title away quicker than expected, and Im cool with how it played out, but just for me, I would have booked it that way. Then he could lose, however they felt.
"I got 141 and 2/3 chance of winning at sacrifice."
ReplyDeleteI should reevaluate my interests if I can quote Scott Steiners math
That's not why. It's because Shawn dicked over Rock's mom at some show she was promoting.
ReplyDeleteAt the time, Shawn vs. Benoit vs. HHH didn't feel like something that should be main eventing WrestleMania XX
ReplyDeleteYea, It was definitely overload by that point. I wasnt as in tune to the insider stuff at that point so didn't know Benoit was going over...I figured HHH would go over Benoit if they had a 1-1 and kinda thought HBK would get his payoff vs HHH in the mania triple threat. Was just glad HHH tapped in that match
ReplyDeleteI was surprised Awesome Truth never made a comeback. For some reason they really worked well together.
ReplyDeletescott literally means figuratively
ReplyDeleteThat's the primary reason, but also in 97, HBK made a stink about Rocky as well.around the THursday RAW Thursday title switch.
ReplyDeleteallegedly.
until the bell rang.
ReplyDeleteI liked how HBK's interjection was just another hurdle for Benoit to get over. In the match before Benoit got the crossface, he blocked the superkick by getting under him and dumping him over the ropes. Also, Benoit would've won the match numerous times: HHH held Shawn's hand so he physically couldn't tap, and Shawn stopped the sharpshooter by kicking Benoit in the head.
ReplyDeleteAlso, HBK and HHH worked together to suplex Benoit through a table.
I thought it told a great story.
Was it well known or planned by wwe somewhat in advance Benoit was going over at 20?
ReplyDeleteWell when he was on Smackdown in late 2003, he was involved in storylines involving Brock and Heyman. Paul had Benoit beat down telling him, "you'll never be the WWE Champion!!" and he ended up tapping Brock at Survivor Series, so he went over him in an elimination tag and not in a singles to take away his heat (reserved for Eddie).
ReplyDeleteBetween his match with Angle at RR'03 (a perfect match, BTW) and the next Royal Rumble, Benoit didn't do much of note. Perhaps they had it planned the whole year, I have no idea.
The Brock-Benoit Smackdown "Brock Lock" match was classic.
ReplyDeleteEvolution - Rock and Sock is one of the FUNNEST matches I can recall.
ReplyDeleteAnd, like Scott said, Foley-Orton one-on-one would have gotten lost in the shuffle. It had more focus on it at Backlash (where it killed!)
I just saw the clip of that. Yeah, they really designed to to get Chris over as a top guy.
ReplyDeleteWhat really sucks is I was just watching that match on DVD and NO cash theme. Damn cheap wwe.
ReplyDelete"Paul had Benoit beat down telling him, "you'll never be the WWE Champion!!""
ReplyDeleteAnd Paul Heyman was right!
At the time, I remember everyone thought that the main reason HBK was added to the match was so that he would tap/be pinned instead of HHH.
ReplyDeleteFrom a character standpoint, Awesome Truth is probably my favourite tag team of the past decade. They were just great.
ReplyDelete100% agree with you. They dropped the ball breaking those guys up.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the state of the tag division Awesome Truth was a huge upgrade on the mic though, and they are both serviceable in the ring. If nothing else, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn managed to get over and they were far worse.
ReplyDeleteSmart man. Fuck 1996 HBK.
ReplyDeleteI agree... to a fault.
ReplyDeleteTruth was rapidly breaking down as a wrestler and Miz to me is just terrible.
They could talk, I will give them that all day.
I will also go ahead and say that creative dropped the ball with that angle as well, but I knew they could not back up anything once the bell rang. They were over enough to be considered a threat to any top guys.
and putting them with Rock and Cena at Survivor Series was just idiotic.
They swallowed them up whole.
I just love Flair and Rocky in the same ring together because they both cuss up a storm when wrestling. I particularly loved Flair's "I DON'T THINK SO MOTHERFUCKER!" when Rocky was trying to go for a tag.
ReplyDeleteJericho/Christian was a damn fine match, with a great turn by Trish that gave the world EVIL TRISH!!!
ReplyDeleteI think Cena/Show from WMXX is their best match. It's not good but it is a fun match to watch, if that makes any sense.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes you think they're serious about getting the tag division going again?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I kinda wonder if that was the intended Benoit spot at WM or not. There were some rumors about Brock's flakyness for awhile before he officially flaked out, they may have just scraped that storyline and shoehorned Benoit into HBK/HHH part 928.
ReplyDeleteIt would have been the ultimate in "who gives a shit", but it may have been better than what we got. That ME was the absolute shits. Double concussions, false double CO screwjobs and ANGRY CENA making his way out to the ring. 20 minutes later I knew why he was pissed, that was a shitshow.
ReplyDeleteIf it was Benoit/Lesnar at WM... would've been a good match too, but it meant a fuckload that he beat HHH and HBK in the same match.
ReplyDeleteI remember too, that however you looked at it, Goldberg vs. Lesnar was a BIG DEAL at the time. Like if Austin returned, the one guy he has to face is CM Punk. Like months before they even hinted at it, there was a feeling that HBK vs. Angle was going to happen. When Hogan and Rock stared down each other, it was electricity.
So, you had to go with Brock/Goldberg.
Agree on the Lawler thing killing Miz's push. It's like they wanted us to take him seriously as champion, but didn't want to put him over any of their faces, so they booked him against Lawler, and even worse, made Lawler look like a threat. Made Miz look like a total chump and not in Cena's class for their WM feud.
ReplyDeleteSay what you will about this whole Orton/McMahon thing, but you can't have strong faces without strong heels.
The best part about the match is, I don't think anyone realized that Rock and Flair were going to be in the ring together... then it happened and everyone came to the realization at the same time. Their chemistry together was pretty damn good too.
ReplyDeleteI think Scott has said that as early as October it was planned to have Eddie and Benoit as champs at WMXX.
ReplyDeletePlus both being swallowed up by each Cena and Rock separately didn't help matters. They should have just came in and waffled those guys with ball bats for three weeks... and everyone else.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the whole thing ended up being a commercial for WM28... I would have liked to have seen the match. Anything would have been better than what we got. Who books a fucking double DQ, Dusty finish in the main event of WM!?
ReplyDeleteAt the time of this reply, your post has 5 for, and 5 against.
ReplyDeleteWhat should the main event have been in lieu of what we got?
I don't really have a suggestion other than the obvious - HHH vs. Benoit.
ReplyDeleteI
To me at least, I think the main event should be a one-on-one match - especially for the premier show.
Cena would have carried Rock more than Bret did Davey Boy at ss '92, bc as Scott said no way Rock would have been ready in time.
ReplyDeleteThey badly need to turn Truth Heel again, he sucks as a face and right now is just spinning his wheels.
ReplyDeleteThey really should not have given us Miz/Cena as the main event of WM 27. I wanted Punk/Cena.
ReplyDeleteIt'd be nothing to put them back together to just SAVAGE a couple of the lower-level babyface teams. They can be a poor man's Bad Influence.
ReplyDeleteI love that tag match as well...except the finish. To me, I think Foley should have gone over Orton to build to the rematch. Mick didn't even have to go over strong, maybe a lucky roll-up in the middle of a chaotic schmozz or something. Then you have a great pop for Rock and Sock and can have Foley taunt Randy in the weeks leading to Backlash about how how he was already beaten and how he's coming for the IC title.
ReplyDeleteSure I'll get banned for saying this, but I don't believe Scott's claims that he knew about the Benoit title win well in advance. If you read his writing from the time, his righteous indignation over the misuse of Benoit is still very much evident, and in the RR 04 rant he's clearly totally euphoric over Benoit's win - and, by his own admission in that very rant, he had feared they wouldn't even have a program set up for Benoit at WMXX. So there ya go.
ReplyDeleteI think that is one of the best opening matches in WrestleMania history. The crowd was rabid for Cena, his pre-match rap was really, really good and memorable, and for the first time in recorded history, Big Show had enough heat to generate quite a few "Big Show Sucks!" chants. The fact that the FU didn't win the match, and that Cena still was such an underdog at the time that he needed to use the chain and cheat to win was a great touch. So, so different from the Super Cena he became once he won the WWE title.
ReplyDelete