Scott,
Something that I dislike about the current era of WWE is how sterilized everything looks. The stage is just one giant screen comprised of many smaller screens, and the crowd is far too illuminated.
In the Attitude Era, say what you will about its flaws, it had a great, gritty look that is conducive to an aggressive and exciting environment. There was one big monitor (the Titantron) and a whole bunch of metal shit around it. It didn't look like a Tokyo nightclub. The best rock shows of history have followed the same ideal: metal shit and a big statue or something behind the band. I don't want to watch a band play in front of a plasma TV.
The '70s and early '80s was great too, how the crowd is mostly in the dark and it makes the wrestlers look like gladiators fighting for good and evil among a dark sea of souls. It reminds me of stand-up specials from the same period.
That's why mid-'90s WCW looks so obsolete. Tough guys would come out through coloured fog and enter into Disneyland.
Could not agree more. I've been beating the "stale presentation" drum for years now, and shows like NXT really highlight how desperately in need of a change that the main program really is. Even doing occasional changes like the Old School RAW sets or maybe just having a change of scenery like an outdoor show or a small building ala the Hammerstein would go a long ways towards reducing the burnout that a lot of people are feeling. Doesn't have to be a major overhaul, just a palette cleanser every now and then.
Hey, no one has ever made this point before! Ever!
ReplyDeleteI think a big problem people have with WWE is this, it's a weird mix of falsity and staleness. It's like a giant amusement park, and while amusement parks can be fun I get tired of the bright flashy lights and the noise and get hungry for broccoli.
ReplyDeleteI think that's why people are so sick of Cena, he just comes across as a big giant phony. CM Punk's scowling and cursing, and Bryan's "I'm a wrestler" is just as much pandering as Cena's "I do this for you people" shit, it's A) fresher and B) more human.
I dunno, WWE sometimes comes across as really fake, and while I'm a much bigger fan than most of the current product, I'd love to see a change in presentation. I think it'd do a lot to show people that the company is different and the emphasis is on new things.
Yea the current "look" is so lame to me.
ReplyDeleteIn 20 years no one is going to be saying "man, they need to bring back that 2013 vibe:
I actually like the HD LED sets, which look imposing and awesome with a great PPV setup, but I agree the looks are interchangeable; I wish RAw and SD had distinctive looks again, as well as each PPV looking different. I miss some of the creative stuff like the 2005 Royal Rumble "underpass" or 2002 Armageddon with the flames burning onstage.
ReplyDeleteI haven't played a WWE video game in years, but back in Smackdown vs. RAW 2005, they had separate arena sets for each PPV that you could unlock. Do they still even bother having that in the modern games, since every PPV save Wrestlemania looks exactly the same.
ReplyDeleteThis is another odd quirk, but is WWE making a conscious effort to only run arenas where the hard camera set-up puts the entrance on the left side of the screen? It used to be about a third of the arenas had the main entrance coming from the right, but lately seemingly every arena used for RAW/Smackdown has the entrance set on the left.
ReplyDeleteI think the only 'from the right' arenas remaining are the Nassau Coliseum, Atlanta's arena and I think Dallas' arena as well.
Yeah, which is a bit ridiculous because RAW/SD/NXT/Superstars all have the same set-up, just with the different color scheme. At least WWE '13 had a ton of Attitude Era sets plus 50 slots for custom arenas.
ReplyDeletePeople said the same things about Disco.
ReplyDeleteI've never watched wrestling because of the stages. I've never watched because of the onscreen presentation. I've never concerned myself with theme music and pyro and set pieces.
ReplyDeleteThe IWC's need to nitpick things is silly. Their desire for nostalgia is goofy. I don't mind quibbling over booking or in-ring quality, but to let your enjoyment of the product be tainted by one-too-many LED screens is a bit ridiculous.
Chances are--despite what comments are made--ten years from now people are going to yearn for the current stage and wish John Cena were around.
I think that the set is fine for the most part, but I hate the fact that all of the sets look the same (more or less) for the PPV's, and are identical for the TV shows.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big "attitude era" guy nowadays, but one of my favorite parts of watching PPV's back then was seeing how over the top and creative the sets were. Now, we don't get swinging sickles. We get pictures of swinging sickles on a video board.
If the shows were good I'd still dislike the sets, but it wouldn't deter me from watching. WWE aren't preaching to the choir, they're continually striving to attract new fans and in that respect, the packaging is nearly as important as the content.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I do think things like theme music are important. You can't have a group of guys like Cena, Punk, Taker, Austin, The Rock etc. have generic rock music. It'd be ridiculous.
Personally, I like going over things I'm interested in with a fine-tooth comb. I don't watch wrestling regularly any more, but I do like it and I like to talk about every aspect of it. Similarly, I do similar things with bands I like: I want an album to have good artwork, I want to know the lineup changes, who produced it, who plays what, what instruments are used, how long it took, the years certain work was released, I want to read the lyrics... anything you can think of.
I always wonder what the first indie company will be to forego the arena set up altogether and run in theaters or concert venues. Hard cameras facing a screen with some sort of thematic graphics might be cool. And it saves the look of a small company having an empty arena.
ReplyDeleteAs for WWE, the set is fine, although a change up once in a while is fun. I really want to see them bring back the Spring Break Nitro thing with the pool, just once.
Someone did that once and it looked crap. I think it was the Australian WWA thing around the time of TNA's birth but I could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteInteresting email...Since I have nothing to add ill insert a small selfish thread jack. This ER nurse I work with said she met Scott Steiner running around Tampa last week. She said she had zero idea who he was until he introduced himself. What is 1 clip/promo/soundbite I can show her to give her the full aura of Scott Steiner?
ReplyDeleteThis should tell anyone everything they need to know about Steiner.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFoC3TR5rzI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Also, this might help.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbmNFA7Ts4s&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Yup, WWA's second PPV was like that. It was awful.
ReplyDeleteThanks but neither would open for me. Not sure why
ReplyDeleteTotally agree - I understand that the HD set is their "thing" now, but they have a million old set-pieces just laying around in their warehouse. It's not like it would cost more.
ReplyDeleteBring back the "Deadly Games" skull, or the swinging sickles, or the "Smackdown" fist, or the "ECW" brick facade, or any of the other things that they already own and aren't using. "Royal Rumble, 2006" had that "Roman Coliseum" theme, get another use out of that! Hell, tell a bit of a story and set a mood, take the old "In Your House" set and completely trash it, make it look it's been abandoned for years. I dunno, something.
And bring back the old "King of the Ring" electric chair! That was my fave!
I would have guessed that about 99% of their shows have the stage on the left.
ReplyDeleteAnd for what it's worth, I'd imagine that there are several good reasons for that - from a logistical standpoint, it's probably easier for the cameramen and directors to always have the same reference points, and from an artistic standpoint, it'd probably feel weird to have things moved constantly, almost like if the set for any other TV show were reversed all of a sudden. Sure, it wouldn't be realistic for a home to be rearranged, but I can definitely see it being seen as the "established" way that things are set up.
Personally, I can tell you that "Summerslam, 2001" (which had the stage on the right) actually really bothered my OCD. I also hated how, during the inVasion, whether in PPV sets or match-up graphics, WECW was always on the left and WWE was on the right; to me, it felt like the home team should be on the left.
I agree, I absolutely LOVE the hi-def set, I just wish the PPVs looked different.
ReplyDeletePeople who nitpick what they think people are nitpicking also is a bit ridiculous?
ReplyDeleteBest entrance ways ever: Spring Stampede '97, Great American Bash '97, Halloween Havoc '98
ReplyDeleteAwww... It was the Scott Steiner math bit from TNA and the posedown with HHH.
ReplyDeleteI'm kinda tired of every arena looking EXACTLY the same. I always liked how in the 80's you could almost always tell where the arena was. Boston & Maple Leaf Gardens had that ramp leading into the ring. Some arenas were well lit, and some were not. Variety is not a bad thing once in a while.
ReplyDeleteForgot about the math bit...will go with that one. Found myself trying to verbally describe him and I just couldnt do it justice.
ReplyDeleteHere are some good ones:
ReplyDeletehttp://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/7504455/20530147/4/flash_player/0/1/terri_entrance_royal_rumble_2000.jpg
http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/ep_trending/public/gallery/thumb/2012/08/026_Nitro_00000000_0004.jpg
There was something about that era of Nitro... like, how it was oddly intimate, the logos were in steel tread plate, the entrance highlighted the guy coming out... with the theme music, it looked like a concert or an event itself that a guy's walking to the ring, like THIS guy is what you should look at, not what's around it.
My favourite was probably Over The Edge '98. Just a bunch of fucking cars.
Yeah, the arenas where they would come out on the opposite side of the arena always felt off to me and I don't know why. COME OUT FROM THE LEFT!
ReplyDeleteThat's why some of those MSG shows ( like Cena's surprise return) look so good. Fans a re right on top of the entrance.
ReplyDeleteIf they did one PPV show from a small venue, it would have to be extreme rules or MITB.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't nitpicking, dummy.
ReplyDeleteEverything with RAW looks so "Cookie Cutter". Arenas all have the same lighting, same stage, same setup. The only times it looks ANY different is during Wrestlemania or the Tribute to the Troops shows (both outdoors).....at this point, I'd KILL for a Great American Bash tour
ReplyDeleteExactly! The Prime Time Wrestling shows with the elevated Ramp....and you could always tell when RAW was at Madison Square Garden. Now they all look exactly the same
ReplyDeletePro wrestling is also part of the TV industry. You need good production to put on a good wrestling show on TV. This is why I can't get into TNA and ROH because the both of them have really poor production which makes it a chore to watch on TV. The production in WWE has slipped since they went to 3 hours but you still get the stuff that makes their shows consistently successful (camerawork, lighting, stages, sets, use of props and costumes, video packages etc, pretty much everything that goes on outside the ring).
ReplyDelete"I've never watched wrestling because of the stages."
ReplyDeleteNobody else is, either.
I don't see anyone claiming that HBK/Taker II was ruined because the set was too bright or that Road Dogg/Godfather from same random Raw in 1999 was awesome because the set was all gritty and cool looking.
It's as simple as this: Raw/Smackdown/PPV are a product offered to the fanbase. A lot of things go into that product, one of them being the set stage and TV production. You can, as a fan, critique any portion of that product and yet still enjoy it as a whole. "Everything is perfect or everything is shit" is a completely impractical way to look at things.
It's like the games. I picked the RAW arena, so it's the RAW arena as it always it. Same ramp, same screen, items always in the same locations, same commentary.
ReplyDeleteForget the stages, I hate that they dim the crowds out. With the way crowds are reacting to Bryan now, it'd be great to see the entire arena chanting YES!
ReplyDeleteAnd even that's by the wayside IIRC since the MSG renovation.
ReplyDeleteI miss the setup where the ramp was even with the ring. I don't think I ever saw WWE/F do it, but I know for sure I saw it on ECW, and maybe a WCW and Japan (I'm positive one of the arenas in VPW2 was like that). It was a different look and allowed for some unique spots.
ReplyDeleteI'd prefer that wrestlers stop have the same choregraphed entrance routine every single time they go to the ring. Work the crowd, please.
ReplyDeletemost famously for Superbrawl 1 with the Koloff run-in accidentally hitting Sting
ReplyDeleteElectric chair? Wasn't it a throne?
ReplyDeleteDownvote this 50 more times, folks, but I'm right. Yeah, things used to look different. Now they don't. This has been discussed probably dozens of times on this blog alone. There's nothing new or interesting to be said about it.
ReplyDeleteThis can be easily seen on every WWE show.
ReplyDelete2001 and 2002 was an electric chair - I really liked the symbolism, that winning just meant that you would still be targeted.
ReplyDeleteShould have mentioned that MSG was the exception - the entrance in the back was fantastic.
ReplyDeleteI miss the Smackdown fist SO much. It was the silliest thing to show as a major set piece every week on TV, but it just looked so awesome. And I loved how in one of the games you could climb up to it and jump off (since we knew that would never happen in real life).
ReplyDeleteMaffew's Steinermania isn't a bad one to go with: http://youtu.be/CkzjX_GA8Qg
ReplyDeleteNot a fully lit crowd though. The crowds are rapid during his matches, you just can't see them.
ReplyDeleteYep. It's been discussed. You're still a douche. Life goes on.
ReplyDeleteYes man, and when Survivor Series '02 was in the Garden and they just said fuck it and had a tiny entrance way with a tiny screen, I actually LOVED it.
ReplyDeleteRemember the setups from 95/96? Everything looked clean and boring harmless. Then with the attitude they changed their setup and it was darker and cooler. Now the shows are looking as clean and boring as the were before the attitude. The entrance area looks as clean as a wrestling videogame where the console hasn't got the power to show more details like tables or garbage tons or so. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe one innovation I thought for sure WWE would have kept after WrestleMania XX was the video floor. That was badass.
ReplyDeleteAlso, talking directly to the camera during the entrance would help immensely. That's a WCW staple that no one ever does anymore.
ReplyDeleteI hope others don't shy away from it just because Cena yammers at the camera before his matches. Off the top of my head it's just Cena and Bad Influence who regularly do it. I'm hoping someone brings back the Windham/Anderson 'fish hook in front of the hard camera, "say hi to Mom!"' spot.
ReplyDelete