The theory behind the WWE Network being viable was that putting the minor PPVs on there for free would be too good for wrestling fans to pass up, right? Every serious fan makes sure the network is in their cable package, ratings for those shows are high, WWE can request big ad dollars for the shows, and then they're making money.
So — with the network on continued hiatus or whatever — wouldn't the thing to do at this point be farm some/all of the minor PPVs out to existing cable networks, to demonstrate that viability to potential investors and advertisers? Put Battleground or whatever on USA, or E!, or NBC if it's not football season, and have some solid numbers to show people who might put money into the network?
Or is that too logical in the face of continuing to make a pittance on PPV buys?
Well they're hardly making a "pittance". 150,000 buys x $60 = more money than any of us will ever see in a lifetime. The issue is less "PPV is not viable/profitable/worth it" and more "The dream of the network will mean more money than even Scrooge McDuck could fit into his vault" and thus they're willing to sacrifice one revenue stream for the risk of creating a torrential revenue river. Point being, there's no reason not to keep milking the PPV cash cow as it stands, especially with the network being vaporware at the moment. Plus they already have a three-hour show on USA, and I could see it being tough to differentiate to network execs what exactly the difference between RAW and PPV is at this point.
I wonder when it will go straight to iPPV/Hulu PPV partnerships in order for WWE to keep more of the revenue in their pocket rather than giving cable a cut. It's coming.
ReplyDeleteEven if they got every cent from a minor PPV (which they dont, some goes to the providers) it's "only" $9 million. And that's before paying anybody.
ReplyDeleteIf the WWE Network wasn't an idea, I think the notion of WWE moving the crappy PPVs to USA or NBC would be more realistic.
But the WWE Network isn't happening unless the WWE gets real hot. The NFL Network fought for about 5 years (and is still fighting) to get clearance. This isn't 1999 so the WWE isn't the NFL.
I'm convinced at this point, the WWE Network is just a talking point for investors. It's so far from reality it's not even worth discussing.
Ways to sell it to a network:
ReplyDelete1. Have a comeback match of some beloved Superstar.
2. Gimmicked title match (HitC, Cage, ladder, etc.)
3. Every major title contested.
4. Celeb referees.
5. Keep it to two hours.
6. Piper's Pit.
1: Maybe
ReplyDelete2: No. Network TV could not do justice to a proper gimmick match. Not a good one, at least. (NOTE: However, there can be exceptions to the rule, see Hogan/Orndorff on SNME.)
3: Sure.
4: Find one or two, and okay.
5: So PPV < RAW? (Another reason 3-hr RAWs suck... PPV's have to match, or they appear to be lesser than the TV. Which somewhat happens already...)
6: Only if he gets them in trouble with the FCC.
150,000 buys x $60 = $9million. But that's just a gross revenue. Deduct operating costs from that and the net income will be far lower.
ReplyDeleteThe key question is more about whether advertising revenues on a cable channel would be greater than PPV net income.
times 11.
ReplyDeleteThats guaranteed money.
Why give up that money for non-guaranteed money?
I want the Network to start as well, but it has to be a concrete money machine. Hand over fist.
Does Scott really believe that NONE of his readers have or ever will make $9 million? I find that extremely hard to believe.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't say in a month, he said "more money than any of us will ever see in a lifetime."
ReplyDeletebut there might be this idea that cost = quality, at least in a overarching sense (regardless of whether its true), so peeps might think that lower cost = lower quality and thus not be incentivized to buy the b shows
ReplyDeletethe danger though is that if you get lower cost but maintain high quality, wwe will think 'well dang jethro, peeps really are willing to buy these since they produce, so lets get some more money out of them!' and cost is raised, and eventually youre back to where you started
At this point WWE is much better off keeping ppvs the way they are and doing
ReplyDeletemaking a deal with Netflix or Hulu or even Amazon to stream their vault
content. As has been noted, moving most ppvs to a WWE network would be a big
revenue loss. And that is assuming the WWE network ever exists. I know I've
beaten these points up in other discussions on the topic, but I'll toss them out
again. The WWE is simply not big or hot enough at this point to get satellite
and cable to give them a channel in a decent package. At best they get in the
sports package with all the regional sports networks that black out anything
good and let you watch world poker tour on 30 different stations. While WWE
might make some ad revenue off the network (probably the majority off of paid
programming ran over night....sorry old time fans hoping for late night
mid-south or ECW) cable and satellite will may them a pittance for the right to
carry.
The other best option for WWE is to do what has become popular recently and
buy another channel. They get a guaranteed position on the grid, at least for a
bit, and they can prove their worth in time for renegotation. Many channels
have switched over recently. Current became Al-Jezeera America, the Documentary
channel became Pivot, Fox swapped the soccer channel to FXX, etc.
Id pay for the network if the B ppvs were included. Id be extremely fascinated on what the programming content would evolve into. I could see Vince airing a reality show that somehow involves midgets, divas, poop, sports competition, and singing into one competition.
ReplyDeleteWell, obviously he can't say that definitively, however the percentage of people who will make $9 million in their lifetime is very small.
ReplyDeleteFor example, a Canadian earning $201,400 in 2010 was actually among the top 1% of wage earners that year. In order for that 1 percenter to earn $9,000,000 in their career, they would need to maintain that income level for 45 years (the peak earning years for most people last a decade at best). Obviously, there is the opportunity to supplement employment income with investments, inheritances, etc., however in terms of "money you can see", you'd also have to factor in taxes and cost of living (someone making $200k doesn't bank $200k).
Even if you look at net worth, there are only 30 million individuals ON THE PLANET, with a net worth of more than $1 million, let alone 9 times that amount. How many of those people read snarky pro wrestling reviews?
Add in some assumed common demographics of wrestling fans and people who read wrestling review boards, and the likelihood of one of his readers having a current net work of $9 million or even a reasonable chance of achieving such is pretty slim.
But, yes, there is a chance.
G4 is still up in the air.
ReplyDeleteThey could probably buy that.
It's not slim at all. The people who travel to Wrestlemania are not poor. There's a lot more diversity to a wrestling crowd than you think.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I commented was, because while I certainly don't have anything close to $9 million, my goal is to have at least that much at some point in my life. Why limit yourself? Point is, that amount of money is definitely conceivable, especially in America.
It's really 150,000 buys x $30, the PPV companies take half right off the pot. Still a fuckload of money.
ReplyDeleteI have $9 million, however due to certain legal issues it's sort of trapped in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.
ReplyDeleteI would buy more of the B shows if they cost $20-30. I may not get all of them, but I would certainly increase from the 0-1 PPV I get each year now. I would also happily buy the WWE.com feeds of the shows if they weren't THE SAME FUCKING PRICE as getting it on my TV.
ReplyDeleteLet's start a campaign for Vince to buy Spike TV!
ReplyDeleteGood. Fuck cable companies. Adjust with the times or continue to get marginalized.
ReplyDeleteActually, it is pretty much the definition of slim.
ReplyDelete$9 million dollars, either in career earnings or total net worth, is something that only a fraction of a percentage of North Americans reach (see the numbers in my original reply).
In 2011, there were 1,078,000 households in the USA with a net worth of $5 million dollars or more (just under 1% of the total households in the US). From a different report, 96% of "millionaires" have a net worth of less than $10 million. You can fairly reasonably apply that to the first figure, which would mean that there are roughly 42,000 US households with a net worth at or above the off-hand estimate that Scott provided regarding PPV revenue. This translates in 0.3% of all US households.
If the wrestling audience (and the subset who read wrestling news blogs, and the subset therein who a regular readers of the Blog of Doom) had demographics identical to the US population, then there would be 1 person meeting that description for every 3000 readers.
Wrestling has a demonstrably lower income, less educated, and younger fan base though. The fact that some rich people attend Wrestlemania does not change that. If you were to compare the income levels of people who attend the New York Opera versus those who watch Raw, there would be an absolute skew towards lower income households (and thus away from higher income ones) in the wrestling group. This makes it even less likely than 1/3000 that one of Scott's readers is - or will become - a high net worth individual.
None of these numbers mean anything to your own goals, nor should they. I've worked with some self-made high net worth individuals in the past, and a common characteristic was their incredible desire to achieve. With luck, skill, and drive, you have a better shot than most of accomplishing what you want.
Ok, suppose they make stuff like NOC $20 while keeping Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble, Summerslam, etc. full price. If they maintain high quality but lower cost on the 'B' shows, the other risk is that people might be then less willing to pay 'full' price for things other than Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteive wondered about that, and i'm thinking part of the reasoning for them being the same price is that tons of peeps would just hook up their comp to a tv and watch the stream on a big screen that way.
ReplyDelete'I could see Vince airing a reality show that somehow involves midgets,
ReplyDeletedivas, poop, athletic prowess, and singing into one competition.'
and they can call it... 'total divas'
Agreed. It's the same reason they won't turn Cena heel until they've wrung every penny out of him.
ReplyDeleteAre we talking gross or after taxes here? Because I'm with you.
ReplyDeleteno midgets though. I need midgets!!!
ReplyDeleteIf anybody deserves to get fucked over, it's the cable companies. It's way past overdue for them to get a taste of their own medicine after ripping off the customers for so many years.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I get the feeling that by the time "Legends' House" finally airs, nearly everyone on that show will be dead?
ReplyDeleteConcur. Their prices are too high, their business model is outdated (this applies to the networks and channels as well), and their product is too weak to deserve your business... so they deserve to have a market correction forced on them.
ReplyDeleteBecause they are wrestlers, assuming they will die at any given point is always a safe bet.
ReplyDeleteThankfully, cable doesn't have my business, Dish Network does but if Dish ever drops the Epix channels...well fuck them too.
ReplyDeletei'm close enough. :(
ReplyDeleteplus, hornswaggle was in attendance at nattie's wedding
I was gonna mock you for having such great total divas knowledge but im a fan if your posts.
ReplyDeleteWasn't G4 going to be rebranded into Esquire or something like that?
ReplyDeleteYes. But the Style network was rebranded as Esquire instead. Not sure what happens to G4 now.
ReplyDeleteCareful, you might scare these wrestling nerds with all these pesky "facts".
ReplyDeleteRight now, no plans is the last I heard. Still Ninja Warrior, Cops, Cops wannabes, and X-Play.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, other than WM and RR, EVERY PPV would justifiably be in the $20-30 range. RR could be $40, and WM at $50+
ReplyDeleteI really feel that's become more common recently, though, and they've been charging the same price online for as long as I can remember.
ReplyDeleteAfter I make a call to my high school chemistry teacher, I'll be on my way to that amount!
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the current situation is with NBC, but they could air their B-Grade PPVs on NBC live if they want to try something new. Move them to Saturday and have them air during that dead zone night, where there is pretty much ZERO competition (even Fox has given up on Saturday, cancelling America's Most Wanted and allowing Cops to channel jump to Spike TV).
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much buys would increase if the PPVs were cheaper? I think UFC is still only $30.
ReplyDeleteWhat? A UFC live ppv is definitely more than $30.
ReplyDeleteEvery 6 seconds, a wrestler dies.
ReplyDelete"150,000 buys x $60 = more money than any of us will ever see in a lifetime."
ReplyDeleteSpeak for yourself, I still have dreams, dammit!
$45 SD, $55 HD in these parts. The difference, though, is I find it a lot easier to find someone else to go in with me on UFC shows than WWE ones.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely, UFC is a guaranteed four friends minimal willing to come watch, usually more like 6-10 with girlfriends.
ReplyDeleteIt helps that I don't know who is going to win the UFC fights the Monday before the PPV.
$9,000,000.00 / 45 years working life = $200,000.00 average annual income for your entire working life. So I suppose its certainly possible, given inflaction.
ReplyDeleteBut its a false comparison. Assessing whether a particular option is worthwhile for a publicly traded, massive turnover company has nothing to do with whether the gross income from it is more or less than average lifetime income.
Its a classic issue of price meeting demand. Will lowering your price result in higher enough sales to give you a higher gross income?
ReplyDeleteIf selling the PPV at $60.00 gives you 150,000 buys, then reducing the price to $20.00 would need 450,000.00 buys just to get the same income level (leaving aside the gross / net distinction). Do you really think that is likely? I have no doubt that the WWE has bean-counters carefully calculating to ensure that income is maximised.
Who needs $9 million in their lifetime? I just want to pay off my house early. That'll be enough for me.
ReplyDeleteAssuming you live to 85, you only have to make over $105,000 a year every year of your life to match one of WWE's B-show PPV figures.
ReplyDeleteThat seemed more reasonable before I typed it out.
I've had Dish for nine years. They're ok- except I don't get Fox Sports 1, and I refuse to pay more to get UFC stuff I used to have available to me.
ReplyDeleteIf you pay off your house by 30, then what? Just wait until you die?
ReplyDeleteThe nature of humanity is to move forward. Why did we go to the moon? Why did anyone travel across the seas when they didn't know what was there? Why do we probe the depths of the sea?
Until you have "paid off your house early" you'll never know what you want after that.
I remember being 10 years old an honestly thinking if I could make $5 an hour, that was a massive sum.
If by "facts" you mean assumptions and stats with no citation, congrats. You pseudo-intellectuals keep telling yourselves that the unwashed masses can't achieve anything beyond your pathetic expectations of "sustainability".
ReplyDeleteHehe, I'm already 35. I see that as being to work with less pressure after that.
ReplyDeleteWill you? Help out someone? Like this?
ReplyDeleteAnd then there's a picture of Hulk Hogan crouched in an alley wearing sweatpants and smoking angel dust.
PPVs in the UK are at £14.95 for most shows, and £17.95 for WrestleMania. We get 4 shows a year on the sports channels (on subscription). I usually only order Mania and the Rumble. Am I a bad WWE Universe member? :/
ReplyDelete