Was Flair booked to win the WWE title as soon as he signed back in 1992? Or was the Rumble for the vacant title a quick-fix for dealing with Hogan politics?
I'd have to dig through the Observers from the time, but given they were booking everything long-term at that point I'd have to say the Flair Rumble win was planned right from the start.
Well, he is the sixty minute man, woo.
ReplyDeleteHe was, however, a premature ejaculator.
In Flair's autobiography, he mentions that Jake Roberts told him he heard he was winning about a week or two before the event took place.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if McMahon was influenced by the crowd reaction when Hogan lost to the Undertaker at SS (it's the first time really that people popped for a hogan loss against a "heel), and decided to alter the plan because of it.
This is old news but yea, Vince fucked this up. Flair wins the belt at RR, the tan goblin chases until WM. I dont care what the house show attendances were for Hogan/Flair, if the build is done correctly it would have drawn. You cant tell me Hogan/Sid outdraws Hogan/Flair. We got Savage/Flair do thats something I guess
ReplyDeletehe signed back in '91
ReplyDeleteIt was a great showcase, but I'd go with the Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls from the Clash of the Champions. It also went around an hour with no dull spots, and of course is a straight-forward 1 on 1 wrestling match.
ReplyDeleteFlair was the last of a certain breed of NWA champion, where it was pretty much a requirement that the champ would have to go 60 minutes against the top guy in a territory.
I also can't grasp why the majority of people pardon Sid/Hogan from having the distinction of being the worst main event in WrestleMania history.
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely worse than Miz/Cena.
Yeah. Two reasons: (1) Double main event, so Savage/Flair take a lot of focus off Hogan/Sid, and (2) Star power. Hogan + Sid >>> Cena + Miz.
ReplyDeleteMiz, who I actually think would be pretty useful in the right role, was treated like a midcard goober during his reign and the WM buildup.
When the regional champ was usually some chubby 40 year-old named "Plowman" Pete Puncher or something.
ReplyDeleteDo you mean worst as in worst actual match, or worst as in "why the fuck is this a WM main event"? Because if it's the latter than Miz/Cena is by far and away the worst WM main ever.
ReplyDeleteI'll buy that, but from a "worst match" standpoint, Hogan/Sid in a landslide. Annoying as he is, Miz is a pretty good worker, and Cena generally amps it up on PPV. Hogan is Hogan. (carryable by the right guys) Sid.....only two things keeping him from being the worst big man in wrestling, one's named Khali, the other is named Gonzales.
ReplyDeleteAlthough every so often you got a Ted DiBiase. Not every top regional guy was shit.
ReplyDeleteBollocks. Undertaker/Sid was much worse.
ReplyDeleteIf you MUST go with Hogan vs. Sid, I think the catalyst for the title vacancy should have been the most hellacious beating of all time from Sid. Like multiple powerbombs until it gets hard to watch and Jack Tunney cuts the TV feed. That kind of beat down. Vacate the title and have Flair win the belt. The whole Taker-Hogan controversy thing kind of cheapened things to me.
ReplyDeleteHogan-Flair was the way to go though and I don't care what anyone says
Totally agree. Hulk vs. Sid at least had some appeal.
ReplyDeleteFlair vs. Savage was tremendous and totally needed to happen, but Hogan-Flair was the true main event for Wrestlemania 8 and I will always feel that way.
ReplyDeleteThey could have:
1. Had Hulk win the belt at Mania, Sid turn on him, and build toward SummerSlam '92 (best they didn't, since Hogan & Sid were gone before then). Flair vs. Savage could have been done at SummerSlam. Flair loses the title to Hogan at Mania, then starts pursuing Liz. The whole thing writes itself from there.
2. Had Sid turn on Hogan AT Wrestlemania to give Flair the win. Maybe have Warrior return to clean house and send the fans home semi-happy. The MegaPowers (or Hogan/Warrior/Savage) can team up to battle Flair/Sid for a while, building to Flair vs. Savage (title) and Hogan vs. Sid in the ultimate grudge re-match for SummerSlam
I wouldn't call Miz a good worker by any stretch, but yeah, Hogan/Sid is a far worse match than Miz/Cena. Hogan/Andre is terrible too, and I have to give a shout-out to the Bret/Shawn Ironman match. There's been a lot of shitty WM matches, but that's the only one that took over a fucking hour.
ReplyDeleteThe Mid-South DVD has a ten minute match between those two... and a 45 minute typical Flair ***1/2 carry-job with Terry Taylor we've all seen a million times with different broomsticks. There's no justice.
ReplyDeleteI suppose a lot of the Flair stuff depends on how far out Vince decided that the Steroid stuff was going to alter his company's direction (i.e. not putting the belt on Hogan, transitioning away from the big dudes, etc.).
ReplyDeleteAnd yet Hogan got to come back and steal the main event of the next Wrestlemania... smh
ReplyDeleteIt really was a great way to have him win the belt.
ReplyDeleteThat and it has some "mystique" around it. (Taker's first WM main, it's part of the streak, etc) Plus Taker was starting to get good in ring around then. Taker/Sid is boring but watchable, Hogan/Sid is pureed shit.
ReplyDelete2 sounds fucking awesome, and would be arguably better than what we got, but Savage/Flair is one of my favourite matches of all time (despite not being ultra amazing), so I'm vaguely glad things worked out how they did.
ReplyDeleteWorse than Hogan/Bundy?
ReplyDeleteHey, the last 20 minutes of that Iron Man match are fantastic.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened to The Crippler anyway? Last I heard he was booked in a triple threat match against Nancy and Daniel Beniot.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Hart vs. Michaels should have just been a regular old match. Let em go a half hour or 40 min or something, but not the fored IronMan structure. They could have always done Ironman at a later date.
ReplyDeleteIt certainly got muddled as hell along the way, but I think the original plan was Hogan as champ with his belt vs Flair as champ with his belt. The whole constant pushing of the "Real World's Champion" catchphrase seems to indicate that. I want to say that the WWF expected to have permission to use a copycat version of the BGB for the angle but were denied the right. The UT/Hogan feud was sort of backdrop for setting up the Flair/Hogan feud in their confrontation on the Funeral Parlor to begin with and I want to say it was starting the very next week on Superstars after that confrontation that they were required to pull all the syndicated tapes and distort the likeness of the BGB.
ReplyDeleteCheck out Flair's 1989-early 1990 short(er) TV matches on NWA/WCW Pro and the Main Event. Great stuff with Muta, Pillman, Zenk, Slater, and a really great match with Bobby Eaton.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the big deal is about Hogan-Flair at Wrestle Mania 8. It's very simple.
ReplyDeleteHogan (as usual) refused to put Flair over and McMahon didn't want his #1 heel to be destroyed by a guy leaving the company. So, they switched to the double main event option. Savage-Flair was better than Hogan-Flair would've been, but Hogan-Flair DESERVED to be the main event at a Wrestle Mania dome show with 70,000+ in the place. Instead, they drew 62,000 with a 1/3 of the upper seating bowl empty.
Hogan's "vacation" was announced very hastily just after the news that the 20/20 piece implicating him as a liar/coke head/steroid abuser would air just a couple of weeks before WM. The whole "this may or may not be Hogan's last angle was thrown together at the last minute too. Very suspect IMO. I'm sure Flair was always going down to the big leg at WM when the match was on the table. They wouldn't even have Flair with the title over Savage for the spring and summer, which likely did not help the post WM house shows which did record low business at the time aside from the European dates.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I remember from the 91 observers: Sid's contract said *HE* was getting the main event at Mania with Hogan. This was before stuff with down with Flair.
ReplyDeleteHe and Ricky Morton did great stuff in a short time also.
ReplyDeleteI really liked this match with Robert Gibson. The psychology of Gibson using Flair's game plan against him is really cool.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvIllOlrvso
Except for the fact that Hogan was gone during this time, but keep rewriting history to your benefit.
ReplyDeleteHa! Is funny because 7 Year old got murdered! HAHAHAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteExcept that's not what happened.
ReplyDeleteTaker was the most over man on that show.
ReplyDeleteOrton/HHH was the worst. Considering they didn't have the crowd at all and what they're capable of (LMS match), it was MAJOR letdown.
Undertaker has always been over, even when he was heel. He got big cheers against Snuka at his first mania.
ReplyDeleteI think it was just the main event that he was promised, not necessarily against Hulk. They really had big plans for him to be a huge face, then the big plans changed to a heel instead.
ReplyDeleteThis joke is brand new.
ReplyDeleteyea, no way Hogan is allowed to be that weak in 1992, especially after earthquake in 1990.
ReplyDeleteIf you were watching it live back in '96... you couldn't turn away.
ReplyDeleteEh, I'd say they turn it off after the Chicago street fight. At least that's what I do.
ReplyDeleteYep, apparently Sid was promised the main event spot with Hogan when he signed in late 91
ReplyDeleteI watched it live, and I was bored out of my fucking mind.
ReplyDeleteSid-Undertaker was pretty stupid too. Did either or those guys have any heat at that point?
ReplyDeleteI can not for the life of me even remember how that match came together.
ReplyDeleteI wanna say it had something to do with the Rumble, but a) they weren't doing the "Rumble winner main events WM" thing yet, and b) Taker didn't win a Rumble until decades later.
ReplyDeleteThe "RR winner gets a a title shot" deal started in 1993, I believe. As for WMXIII, I remember Austin won the Rumble under screwy circumstances, then Shawn gave up the title. So they did the first ever (I think) 4-way match at the next PPV for the vacant title. Bret won, (I know Austin was one of the guys in it, I want to say the other 2 were Sid and Vader), and I think he lost the title the night. Can't remember who he lost it to though, I'm not even sure who was champion going into WM. My memory of 1997 WWF is pretty hazy, I was WAY more into WCW (or even ECW) at that point.
ReplyDeleteOK, that 4 way was on the In Your House DVD: Bret, Taker, Vader and Austin, pin, submission or over the top, last man standing got the title. Bret lost to Sid the next night, then i remember Taker walking to the ring, Sid laying the belt down at his feet ("drawing a line in the sand" so to speak) and JR saying "You're looking at the WM13 main event", although that might have happened at the Raw after Bret lost the title.
ReplyDeleteWWE in 97. It's kind of a blur until Montreal, isn't it?
OK, that Final Four match, Bret eliminated Taker last, thus he got the WM shot.
ReplyDeleteNot as big of a blur as most of 98 and 99 were.
ReplyDeleteNothing beats Undertaker vs. Sid from WM 13. That's the worst Mania main event.
ReplyDeleteBecause Hogan/Flair in 91 was a dream match 6/7 years in the making. Forget if the match would have "sucked", they were in line to make tremendous amounts of cash.
ReplyDeleteNext to the Invasion, Flair/Hogan with Both belts is the biggest dropped ball in the history of wrestling. I don't buy, "It was book 5 yrs too late" and all that shit.
ReplyDeleteWM 8 Should of been:
Hogan v Flair
Savage v Roberts
Taker v Sid
A couple of thing that I always wondered about....
Why did they never have Flair in his suit and be cool and show off his watches, etc? He comes out on Prime Time for the first time in his robe and it just doesn't make any sense and he looks weird doing a long interview in it.
He doesn't even wrestle at SummerSlam 92 - he's a part of the World Title match but he's not booked to Wrestle at the second biggest card of the year?
The Rock overshadowing him completely didn't help.
ReplyDelete