Interested in getting the BOGs thoughts on my idea on how to fix Survivor Series.
My pitch is having two of your standard tag elimination match (4 or 5 per team) goes down. The remaining wrestlers at the end of those then fight at the next months PPV, with the winner there fighting for the title at Royal Rumble.
It allows for multi-month booking, easy build for feuds and gives those eliminations some weight. Plus, if you're building up a new threat, having them win big matches at three straight PPVs sounds solid to me.
I do think they desperately need something to give the fall season momentum going into the Rumble, but I think I'd ditch the traditional Series format entirely and go with a King of the Ring style one-night tournament to find the #1 contender for the Rumble match instead. No need to overly complicate things, plus TOURNAMENTS ARE AWESOME.
A 60 man, 3 ring battle royal until you have 10 wrestlers left. Those 10 wrestlers then get put into a randomly drawn survivor series match, and the final 2 survivors of that match immediately have to take on Mike Rotundo & Kevin Sullivan inside the doomsday cage. If they win that match they each get a briefcase.
ReplyDeleteBRING BACK KING OF THE RING AND THE BIG SURVIVOR SERIES EGG
ReplyDeleteI think a couple easy ones were available this year:
ReplyDeleteDaniel Bryan, The Big Show, Cody Rhodes, & Goldust vs.
Randy Orton, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, & Roman Reigns
CM Punk, Big E Langston, Dolph Ziggler, & Kofi Kingston vs.
Ryback, Curtis Axel, Antonio Cesaro, & Jack Swagger
all taking place on a huge scaffold
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame Survivor Series has become so meaningless. I'm sure the buyrate would be just as poor if WWE randomly put 40 former wrestlers on the card in random elimination matches. Maybe Hillbilly Jim could finally avenge his Gimmick battle Royal loss to a (now) 75 year old Iron Sheik.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else think World War 3 MIGHT have worked if they had made it a 2-ring, 60 man battle royal that could have fit on the same television screen? Or maybe, try doing 2 different 30-man battle royals over the course of the evening, stopping when there are 10 men left in each one to cap it off with 20 men in the main event battle royal?
ReplyDeletePeople always speculated that the 2003 Rumble would be two rings of 15 or 30, split by the Raw and SD brands, and that there would be two separate winners.
ReplyDeleteWhile Survivor Series '98 wasn't exactly a workrate spectacle, it was a great show. Using the same template this year would have fit perfectly.
ReplyDeleteJim Crockett, Sr. Memorial Tag Team Cup.
ReplyDeleteFin.
Or if you want it to actually happen:
ReplyDeleteVince McMahon Sr. Memorial Hoss Tournament
I like this idea very much.
ReplyDeleteI think it's just about time for Vince to do one of his slightly behind the curve pop-culture tie-ins. Instead of a "wrestling" show, the Survivor Series should feature the wrestlers going through a series of challenges (like obstacle courses, scavenger hunts, and eating weird stuff). Instead of being pinned or made to tap-out, the wrestlers would be eliminated from the competition by being voted off. This would give the show a twist because, ultimately, the winning competitor would not necessarily be the toughest, but rather the most cunning.
ReplyDeletePS. Triple H would always be the winner.
Vince has been trying to get rid of Survivor Series for years now.
ReplyDeleteHe initially took it off the PPV lineup 2-3 years ago and had some new ppv in its place but outcry was so much that they put it back on.
I wouldn't be shocked if they were intentionally trying to tank the show (since then) with 1-2 matches on the card until the last week to sway fans' opinion of the ppv to take it off.
It has been so meaningless for a while without the whole card being about the elimination tag matches, but with the renewed "focus" on tag teams, this would be the "official" jumping on point to say to the audience "we are focusing on tags with a 20 man match" ala 87/88.
Split the entire roster into two sides and have one gigantic elimination tag match.
ReplyDelete...Naked.
ReplyDeleteHey now. This Game of Throws, not Game of Thrones.
ReplyDeleteYup, they'll be doing a lot of tossing all right.
ReplyDeleteWhere the only way to be eliminated is to be stripped of your tuxedo.
ReplyDeleteAnd the ultimate winner must climb a pole to retrieve Vicki Guerrero
ReplyDeleteI think I hate you.
ReplyDeleteHow cool would it be if Big Show put Randy Orton in the Sharpshooter and blah blah was like ring the blah blah!
ReplyDeleteHoly lord, goodbye party tonight I'm murphy. The only way to fix the elimination matches is if they figured some way to keep the people pinned out around the ring. Like a Shield/Orton match would be way more interesting if, after the Shield was eliminated, they were still around the ring to fuck shit up to support Orton.
ReplyDeleteOr not. I don't know. I lost confidence.
and vince was all like "ring tha fockin bell you cocksuckaaaah"
ReplyDeleteThere definitely needs to be stakes. I always thought the Bragging Rights seven-on-seven match should have had something like winning team being guaranteed seven of the last ten spots in the Royal Rumble like how the All Star games factor in to the finals of the various silly sports you folks have in America.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's as simple as that. Winning team guarantees a good placing in the Rumble.
I think you could actually pull it off these days with a 16:9 aspect ratio and a widescreen HD TV. When World War 3 debuted in 1995 I think the average television size was maybe 27" at the high end.
ReplyDeleteI think they found a nice format for the show around 96. A couple of elimination tag matches on the undercard and two big matches at the top of the card. 98 was a fun show for the time, but I have no desire to ever watch it again. Unless it's just Briscoe and Patterson coming out to DX music doing crotch chops.
ReplyDeleteSurvivor Series sucks. The only way to make big elimination tag matches meaningful is to write a story that organically leads to a 5 on 5 or 6 on 6 payoff. Since we all know that's not gonna happen, and realistically that's probably pretty hard to do since you'd have to involve 10-12 people in the storyline, just scrap the whole idea.
ReplyDeleteThe novelty of seeing faces and heels team together was cool as a kid, but at this point really what's the point of seeing a super face vs heel team? Like would people really be that excited to see like a Cena/Punk/Bryan/Show team vs Del Rio and the Wyatts match?
Covered in baby oil
ReplyDeleteAlso, any chance of a show/Orton double turn tomorrow night?
ReplyDeleteIt has been said that genius breeds contempt.
ReplyDeleteSurvivor Series is a tradition. They should get rid of stupid ass pay per views like Battleground, Night of Champions, Payback (even though it was good this year) instead. Why the hell do they do two PPV shows in the wrestling doldrum season AGAINST football? That's cray.
ReplyDeleteThe Elimination Chamber is a far worse gimmick than Survivor Series. It's a dangerous structure that leads to injuries and terrible matches yet people get excited for that pay per view for some reason.
I feel Vince would want to incorporate alot of literal "shit" into the obstacle course.
ReplyDeleteThey pretty much stay around after the match anyway.
ReplyDeleteSince they won't do War Games, have they ever done a Survivor Series match in a cage? I mean you have Dusty Rhodes right there. You could pick his brain to see how to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteTournaments can be awesome but often are filled with 3 minute matches.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely.
ReplyDeleteHow about something like the WWE Champion and the World Heavyweight Champion each having three partners, with the winning team being in the main-event of the next PPV in a four-way match (in this case, it'd be a four-way "TLC" match)?
Cena, Punk, Bryan, and Show against Orton and The Shield? The story could be Orton being conflicted, knowing that if his team wins, he then has to face the Shield in a "TLC" match next month; Orton might plan to sacrifice the match, meaning that Shield would then have to watch their backs and try to keep Orton from leaving them high and dry.
Yea, that's why unless it's something like deadly Games where you have an elaborate storyline planned, I always thought they should put just the semi finals and finals on a ppv.
ReplyDeleteSo basically bring back Battle of the Network Stars but with wrestlers. I actually liked those in the 80's. Todd Bridges ruled in those.
ReplyDeleteOrtan
ReplyDeleteBut...what about the Wyatt's?
ReplyDeleteTournaments never do good buyrates because there isn't a main event to sell.
ReplyDeleteI think you could build some good drama if you would name team captains in October and build to SS with the captains picking their teams, a member each week.
So like, HHH names Orton and Bryan as team captains. Orton comes out and says he doesn't need a month to name his team, he has The Shield.
Bryan spends the next four weeks gathering a team of WRESTLERS. He lure Punk away from his Heyman obsession, gets Dolph, and then the three of them confront Cesaro and tell him he's wasting his time with the Real All Americans or whatever they are called.
You have three mini-angles there. Bryan waking Punk up. Dolph getting a chance to do something big, and a Cesaro face turn.
This is hardly an original observation but it bears repeating. It's absolutely baffling how, in WWE's obsession with gimmicked PPV, that they seem to refuse to follow through with their original gimmick PPV. There are so many advantages to doing a card full of elimination matches, with a few high profile singles matches.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest advantage, in my view, is the overall health of your performers. These gimmick matches are usually reserved for the high profile matches, which means that somebody like CM Punk likely needs to do an Elimination Chamber match in January, followed by an Extreme Rules match a couple of months later, followed by another Money in the Bank ladder match a couple months after that, followed by a Hell in a Cell match, followed by a TLC match (or ladder match...or tables match....or chairs match), only to start the cycle again a month later. By design, these elimination matches will protect your beat up workers.
Plus, why not throw a bone to your underutilized talent? Here's a get Tyson Kidd or Zack Ryder or the Prime Time Players or 3MB a PPV payday.
Nor should they. I'm not a fan of Orton's but this is the most direction his character has had in years.
ReplyDeleteFor the use of "cray", I'd wager. You are right though, some good points made
ReplyDeleteAs a kid in the 80's, I loved the Survivor Series format. They had time to build up the alliances, and each team had a certain amount of unity to them. Today is a different product, and as sad as it is to admit, the Survivor Series format doesn't fit in today's product. Maybe there are things they could do to make the x by x elimination matches more relevant, but if there is, they don't seem to care about doing it.
ReplyDeleteI thought the 1990 format made things interesting, with the survivors of the main elimination matches meeting in a "Final match of Survival" at the end of the show. I think that could have been developed into the "last man standing" being the #1 contender or something. If, like 1990, you had two teammates still standing (Warrior/Hogan), they face off in a singles match that night or on RAW or on the next PPV. Everyone starts the night as teams, but at the end of the Survivor Series tournament, there is one guy left standing. A bit of the Royal Rumble dynamic worked in, I suppose.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise, I am a fan of the idea of naming team captains and having them fill out their teams in the weeks leading up to the show. Guys would go on recruiting campaigns, heels try to bribe dudes to join them, etc. to make it seem like the captains actually care about winning the elimination matches.
I totally agree. As a kid it was fun in a similar way that the Royal Rumble is fun: there was lots of star power and you didn't know how it would be dispersed. One of my most memorable matches as a kid was the 1990 "Warriors" vs. "Perfect Team" match. Demolition was my favorite tag team, but I hated Perfect (as a young mark). I liked LOD and Warrior, but was all conflicted about whether I wanted them to beat the Demos. It was a lot of fun getting into who was on what team
ReplyDeleteCan lawyers be involved?
ReplyDeleteThat was my idea. I kinda like this guy's idea to of having the survivors fight it out in a battle royal.
ReplyDeleteScott's hit the nail on the head though. They don't book things well so ppv is a sinking ship. Even though I would have totally bought that 6-on-6 match from Raw as a Survivor Series main event. Instead of Orton v. Big Show.
That's more interesting than anything the WWE has done since Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the 6 on 6 match would have been a good selling point, even a Wyatt's vs the Shield match, both elimination matches. Sadly WWE doesn't care enough to give us that.
ReplyDeleteAha, there I go mixing up Bloom and Blaustein again.
ReplyDeleteSay what you want about Ventura's politics and conspiracy theories but the man is very smart when it comes to making money.
ReplyDeleteBlaustein was the genius behind Beyond the Mat, and one of the two SNL writers (with David Sheffield) that helped revitalize the show 30 years ago behind Eddie Murphy.
ReplyDeleteVentura DID give Blaustein a shout out during some PPV that I can't currently remember, however
It's just another PPV now. I think it is safe to say that "Money in the Bank" has replaced this as the 4th most important PPV
ReplyDeleteThey were friends because Big E was AJ's friend and his girlfriend's become his friend. Then when Dolph and AJ broke up, AJ kept Big E until she ended that friendship inexplicably. Honestly seeing Dolph and Big E tagging up doesn't really drive me crazy since their feud was more about AJ than about any personal issues between the two men.
ReplyDeleteNow why Kofi ever trusted Miz in the first place and then is surprised when Miz turns on him months later is another story, then again Kofi is becoming the new Sting when it comes to trusting people he shouldn't trust anyway.
I swear, Lionel Hutz has a better record in court than the WWE legal team
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. Having four PPVs in a little over two months is a dumb idea anyway, but it's especially dumb when those months run from September/November, right in the heart of NFL season.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's basically if you put enough "creative and original work" (paraphrasing) into something you won't get dinged for copyright infringement. Learned about that in first year of school and it's a very low threshold. Another example is Flair's 91-93 WWF theme.
ReplyDeleteMy gripe is they won't even take two minutes to explain that. Like have a backstage thing where Big E. and Dolph see they are tagging. They laugh about AJ and let bygones be bygones. All they have to do and they won't even do that much.
ReplyDeleteEveryone bitches about them but lawyers are modern day Samurai. People we hire to protect our interests from the evil of the world.
ReplyDeleteThis was the year to do WarGames. They even had the Rhodes vs McMahon backstory there. Dusty could have been the voice og the whole thing, trying to coax the Corporate stable into settling up in a Wargames match. Play up the real stuff, with Vince not wanting a Dusty concept on his brand. HHH could go around Vince and book it because he's such an "old school" guy or whatever. It was one of the rare times they had a built in reason for teams to exist. Bryan, Show, Cody, Goldust vs Orton & Shield.
ReplyDeleteI have a "What If" suggestion for you. "What if a long time BoD poster suggested someone d a "What if" column, then after he is not the center of attention at the BoD anymore he virtually stopped posting and started posting at a 'competing' site including saying that the topics of the "What If" column he suggested we creatively bankrupt"
ReplyDeleteI think that would be a big hit
Whoa. I'm gonna need more on this. I just worked an 18 hour overnight ER shift and had some beers when I got off so of the implication is obvious, I apologize.
ReplyDeleteNevermind, just got it. What site?
ReplyDeleteThat should be obvious also. Go get some rest, then think about it later on.
ReplyDeleteNpp? 411?
ReplyDeletethe former
ReplyDeleteEvery wrestlemania he announced actually.
ReplyDeleteWell that actually kinda sucks. Despite the little dust up we had, I always thought he was a good poster.
ReplyDeletein most cases, Ventura name-dropped Bloom, but I remember one specific occasion he did so for Blaustein.
ReplyDeleteI just watched the show on Hulu; had a couple of thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI know we've talked about it before, but is there a better "feel good" story than Dustin's in wrestling right now? Really makes me happy.
Dug the stuff with the Wyatts; course, I'm a fan. I wish Harper would stop doing that silly gator roll; I enjoyed the rest of his offense, and I thought he looked great. Nice counter from DBry's kick into a powerbomb, and another into what...sort of a bodyslam/powerbomb/sitout something or other? Good stuff.
AJ is probably the best female performer they've had in a loooooong time.
The thing is, the PPV could easily have abig match or two announced, different from the tournament. Hogan/Yoko is an example, or Taker/Foley and Austin/Kane.
ReplyDeleteI'm an office manager of a law firm. I wouldn't trust most of them to get dressed in the morning, but my god, do I want them on my side in the business world.
ReplyDeleteAhhh...thought it was a typo so didn't bother me nearly as much as Tommy Hall's inability to use the word 'anymore' correctly.
ReplyDeleteI can agree with this.I work in IT and the legal department at our firm come up with some of the dumbest issues...but God damn do they get shit done for us.
ReplyDeleteBecause they let go our IT guy back in June, I kind of became the IT guy as well. It easily the most frustrating part of the job. Nearly 75% of the helpdesk calls are basic windows commands... like copy & paste.
ReplyDeleteOne Word...BattleBowl
ReplyDeleteVince Steroids is mu only response. That's the only one that REALLY mattered
ReplyDeleteThey REALLY should have done a backstage segment with Dolph and Big E.. but if I'm not mistaken the two kinda made up on one of those PPV pre-shows.They were friendly to each other and Ziggler complimented Big E.
ReplyDeleteThere's just not enough time in the 7+ hours of WWE TV each week to show any type of character development. That's why they need apps, websites, twitter feeds and a cable channel..
ReplyDeleteand TOUT. Just can't have enough TOUT in our lives.
ReplyDeleteSo you're admitting his matches suck.
ReplyDeleteLook, the dude is getting ten-ish minutes against guys like Bryan and Punk. The two best wrestlers in the goddamn company. And they're nothing exceptional. It doesn't take a genius logician to gather together, Bryan+Cesaro=Good, Bryan+Harper=Average and Harper+Young=Bad and figure out who's the anchor around the neck of good wrestling.
Harper is getting blown hard by tons of internet commentators, I completely disagree with that analysis and offer my reasons for it. People are responding with "Yeah, well ADR!" like that somehow justifies Harper having boring, sloppy matches.
He's a hoss. Yeah, well so is Reigns, and Roman is having way better matches.
With the exception of The Shield, it seems like every debut from NXT has been underwhelming compared to how they were handled in NXT (also see Langston, Big E).
ReplyDeleteADR is a lot like William Regal, he's a very good wrestler but he's an acquired taste. He will probably be appreciated more over time but right now the casual fan finds it hard to get into him for the most part.
ReplyDeleteUs indie dweebs are defensive of him because everyone, including a certain Canadian, assumed he was a terrible wrestler from the jump just because he's big and smarks are biased against big men. So those of us who saw him as Brodie Lee and know he can put on good matches know better, but we might overcorrect in favor of him. Is he an elite great wrestler? No, but he isn't nearly as bad as you say.
ReplyDeleteIntensity? The guy looks like he's sleepwalking most of the time. Every move from beginning to end is done at a fast pace but its all one pace, nothing ever seems important with him. Del Rio wrestles like a Buick drives: its smooth but you never really feel the engine rev, you just kinda glide evenly to your destination.
ReplyDeleteYou could have a Royal Rumble with all the dudes that had sex with Missy Hyatt.
ReplyDeleteADR has his moments of not giving a fuck, but ADR delivers the best beat-downs on the current roster.
ReplyDeleteHim kicking Ziggler into the undercard was one of the best performances I've ever seen.
He is very much an acquired taste, but once you "get" ADR you really get him. I think people will appreciate him when he retires and they look back at his matches and realize just how good they are.
ReplyDeleteHe looks like he actually wants to maim and humiliate his opponents.
"No, but he isn't nearly as bad as you say."
ReplyDeleteWrestling is subjective. So he's EXACTLY as bad as I say he is. Look, if Hogan is the most entertaining motherfucker in the world for you, you can say he's the best wrestler in the world and be correct.
But criticism is still allowed, so let me criticize.
Harper did almost nothing in that match, he had only a few big offensive moves (Michinoku Driver, and Bryan giving himself a powerbomb) and he spent a large quantity of it rest-holding Bryan, he wasn't bumping heavily...so why the fuck was he so blown up? So let's throw out "having good conditioning" as part of his wrestling repertoire.
Is he strong like Cena? Not really, he throws midgets like Bryan and Punk around.
Is he a great athlete that wows people with his speed and dexterity? I don't see anything other than some lummox lumbering around the ring.
Is he shoot tough like Sheamus? Not that I see. He doesn't take or deliver stiffer shots than anybody else.
Is his moveset awesome like Cesaro? Discus lariat, big boot, powerbomb...*snore*. So it's not that.
Does he have a great body? Not really, he's pear shaped with Barrett arms.
So what is it? What am I missing? Is he intense? Not compared to Bryan or Sheamus. Is it just the gimmick? Well...the character is kinda cool and different, but is that all people want?
I get that people want to see their indy favorites do good. But peoples performance in the independents and their performance before an international audience with a bunch more pressure and rules and restrictions are very different.
How many have their been?
ReplyDeleteShield
Summer Rae
Big E
Xavier
Wyatt's
Well, half have been okay to good. And I think the Wyatt's failing has more to do with their lack of...wrestling talent than booking problems (but that didn't help either).
That would make a nice movie. Missy's fiance learns about her past, but before he can walk down the alter he sets out on a journey to find all of his eskimo brothers. I would so watch this.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely because of what they throw at mitb vs survivor series.
ReplyDeleteSurvivor Series is your average "B" PPV now. It only has name value from the past.
ReplyDeletepart of why I can't watch the WM18 dvd, with the NWO theme edit
ReplyDeleteTHIS. Wrestling without stakes is masturbation. Titles are meaningless now (except the WWE Championship), feuds don't feel nearly as personal as they did 20, 15, even 10 years ago, and most of the time Raw and Smackdown matches are put out there without any real incentive for wrestlers to win. Fandango doesn't even care about winning his matches and often takes a walk, so why should I care? Even in the old days they would bring up a mythical fight purse or rankings to make matches seem important.
ReplyDeleteI know I've seen this brought up a bunch, but other than RVD crushing Trips' throat, what legit injuries have happened in a chamber match? Maybe I just haven't watched all of them or something, because RVD stiffing someone could happen in a tuxedo match
ReplyDeleteA 5 vs 5 Traditional Match. The winning team (If there is more than one) has to then fight down to a sole victor. (1 on 1, triple threat, whatever is left).
ReplyDeleteWinner gets a MITB Briefcase.
I like his creepy vacant stares, facial expressions, and portrayal of the brainwashed minion character. I have seen him have better matches in NXT than in WWE yet, not sure if its stage fright or working with people he didn't train with. His "Yea, Yea Yea" is also extremly creepy.
ReplyDeleteThose are fair reasons to like the guy, thank you.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I thought about while watching the Harper/Bryan match just now is his no-selling I think is a character trait from being brainwashed. His "training/brainwashing" have let him and Rowen ignore a lot of pain they feel, its why anytime they've lost so far its been some kind of flukey roll-up or such.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't make the matches any more interesting.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the late reply.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I don't think there have been any other real "major" injuries in the Chamber, but taking back-bumps on the metal floor certainly isn't a good thing. A lot of guys have said that it's the most brutal match in terms of getting beaten and bruised and feeling it for days afterwards.