> Hi Scott,
>
> Quick question. Did Vince want Bret to leave in 97? I know he signed him to that deal and then told him he couldn't afford to pay him. So did he want Bret to leave? I don't understand that part.
Vince was very clear about wanting Bret to leave for WCW instead of paying him that money. The whole thing came across to me as a passive aggressive way to move Bret out.
>
> Quick question. Did Vince want Bret to leave in 97? I know he signed him to that deal and then told him he couldn't afford to pay him. So did he want Bret to leave? I don't understand that part.
Vince was very clear about wanting Bret to leave for WCW instead of paying him that money. The whole thing came across to me as a passive aggressive way to move Bret out.
With tears in his eyes.....
ReplyDeleteAfter that red hot Hart Foundation vs USA angle didn't really jump the needle in terms of ratings, i think Vince made up his mind. When Shawn and Bret had their hair pulling challenge in the locker room i bet Shawn issued Vince an ultimatum, him or me.
ReplyDeleteUsually that would earn a big fuck you, you're fired from Vince, but he's always had a soft spot for ol HBK.
Bret leaving made Raw about 10X better.
ReplyDeleteAnd not just that, Vince was lacking star power and was still getting his ass kicked by WCW at this time. Vince NEEDED Shawn.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I really liked 1998 and it was the year that the company finally turned itself around, but I LOVED the hell out of Raw from post-WrestleMania through the Survivor Series. I thought it was awesome.
ReplyDeleteVince had a man crush for Shawn...or Shawn had some type of blackmail leverage...
ReplyDeleteThis makes a lot of sense. It also makes Vince putting the title on Bret at SummerSlam that much more confusing. The backstage fight was in, I believe, June and SS was the first weekend in August, so why put the belt on Bret if Vince knew he wanted him out? It isn't like UT wasn't completely believable as champion. They could've still had HBK as the ref, do away with the Bret/Shawn stip, and have Shawn cost Bret the match.
ReplyDeleteSoft spot or hard spot?
ReplyDeleteWet spot
ReplyDeleteThose weren't tears...
ReplyDeleteEverything has already been said about this but I've always been curious...If Shawn and Bret were BFFs, would Vince have need just as eager to get rid if him. I'd bet Vinces motivations for Bret leaving was 75% financial, 25% everything else.
ReplyDeleteI watched the Bret/Shawn dvd the other day. The thing that amazes me is that Bret knew exactly how his WCW run would go. He had never stepped foot there and knew exactly how crappy it was run.
ReplyDeleteMy liver spot
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't go that far. He was doing some awesome in the beginning of the year. Once they cut his knees in the fall he was just there.
ReplyDeleteThe late spring of 1997 through the Survivor Series is my favorite era for the WWF. The Hart Foundation was fantastic, Stone Cold was at his peak and the Rock came into his own. It was edgy but hadn't devolved into lame sex jokes for middle schoolers yet. There was amazing stuff at the top of the card throughout 1998 and into 1999, and 2000 was great, but so much of the Russo-era Attitude stuff is awful. Yeah, "everybody had a story", but so many of those stories were idiotic. 1997 proved they could put on a riskier show for a slightly older audience, akin to the Mid-South and Crockett stuff from the 80s. So much of what came after that was just pandering or pointless shock, though.
ReplyDeleteAt least we got the midget Bret Hart/DX segment out of the whole ordeal.
ReplyDeleteTo this day, I don't understand the booking of Bret Hart in 1997. The contract issues, the money problems, the title reign at the SummerSlam right through to the ScrewJob at Survivor Series is a ridiculous situation that probably shouldn't happen outside of a scripted environment.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that there was a film crew recording ALL OF IT for a documentary. Except, of course, for the incident where Bret punched McMahon in the face.
Well, wrestlers talked, so he no doubt heard from people who has been there. In his book he mentions that Austin in particular warned him. He may have also heard stories from Foley, Vader and others. Plus he already had a not that great history Hogan, Nash, and Flair.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the reason given for the camera crew following him? If there was one, I don't remember what it was.
ReplyDeleteIt's been a while since I've seen Wrestling With Shadows, so I don't remember the reasoning for the documentary, other than, "We're Canadians and want to do a documentary on Bret"
ReplyDeleteYou make good points. Is there anyone that looks positively on their run with WCW? There has to be some guys that didn't hate every minute of being there.
ReplyDeleteFlair? Hogan? Sure they have bad things to say about it (some of which they caused themselves, no doubt) but you can't argue it was all bad for either of them.
ReplyDeleteSteve Austin and Vince Mcmahon was why it was so good IMO. Not sure it had to do with Bret leaving.
ReplyDeleteIt's fascinating all the Hart's were getting a huge push until like October.
ReplyDeleteI won't say all bad. Maybe say more positive than negative. Hogan definitely and then Nash. Flair spent most of his time there fighting with Bischoff and before him Jim Herd so I'm not sure about that one.
ReplyDeleteIt was just going to be a run of the mill doc of Bret, but then the events to Montreal happened and the story just fell into their laps.
ReplyDeleteAnd then 2 months later, Mike Tyson is here!
ReplyDeleteWCW's leadership changed quite a bit. So people's memory may in large part depend on who was in charge. One guy may have good memories working for Watts,then had a bad experience under Bischoff. But I think working in a place where the leadership changes so often tends to leave a sour memory, even if you have had a period where things were going well.
ReplyDeleteWhich is the dumber move; putting the title on aj styles at bound for glory especially with his unknown contract situation or keeping the title on Bret until survivor series instead of having him drop it at bad blood?
ReplyDeleteWell, Bret's departure (and Shawn's injury) did force (or allow them) them to make a lot of changes on the top of the card, which allowed Austin to flourish (and later the Rock).
ReplyDeleteMid 1997-November 1998 is my second favorite WWF run, behind January 2000-April 2001. 2000 is put over the top because the card was stronger overall and had better wrestling all over. 1997-1998 had great main events but the undercard was lacking sometimes. But Austin was so damn fun during this time that he carried the whole show.
ReplyDeleteThe Hart Foundation angle was hot and Bret was a despised heel - there's very few guys I actually hated as much as I hated Bret at that point. Him winning the title should have kicked the angle into the next gear but he was downplayed almost immediately afterwards. I think Vince just had enough of dealing with Bret - Bret was against the direction Vince wanted to go in, which would turn out to be the right call - and wanted to cut him lose, but it's too bad we didn't get to see where the Hart Foundation angle would have gone.
ReplyDeleteIf Bret and Shawn being friends means Bret's willing to step aside and let Shawn and the Attitude Era take center stage I'm sure they find a place for him. I think it came down to Vince having to deal with a guy who was accustomed to everything being about him and thinking that was the only way it really should be. I think Vince did respect Bret and respected his opinion and that's why he'd rather have just been rid of him than need to get his approval on how to run his own company.
ReplyDeleteThat's the idea I get. Everyone went for the paycheck but thought it was extreme torture the entire time. I just want to hear one guy say I loved it more than I didn't.
ReplyDeleteI loved 2000. I would say that January 2000-Austin returning is probably my favorite period in the WWF ever.
ReplyDeleteI also loved Mid 97-November 98. Hell, things were still great even into the beginning of 1999. It wasn't until right before WrestleMania XV that things started getting really Russo-riffic.
How many flags to the referees plan on throwing in this Pats/Ravens game?
ReplyDeleteThis was my point. Bret hart had done everything he could do in WWE. The Hart Foundation had totally run its course.
ReplyDeleteBret Hart is my favorite wrestler of all time and his work in 97 was flat out awesome, but I believe the combination of money and dealing with Bret's opposition to change was the reason Vince wanted to boot him out. The Hart foundation angle was hot and drew big houses, but the ratings didn't move much, OK. But a few more things happend before the WWE took the lead in ratings. Shawn's injury for one, and WCW just runing out of juice too. WCW's heat began to drop; many layers of cake were there before the Austin/Tyson icing put them over the top.
ReplyDeleteVince wanted Bret out: while Bret was champ in the fall of 97, Shawn main-evented two PPV's ahead of him--clearly, the writing was on the wall for the Hitman. I think Vince was trying to make everyone happy until he had simply had enough.
But, we all specualte.
I know it gave us an interesting moment in Montreal but the whole Bret/Shawn thing had 0 little long term significance. If Bret would have stayed he'd end up as a whiney second tier player to Austin, Shawn stayed and fucked up his back 3 months later. Austin was the heir apparent...nothing was gonna change that
ReplyDeleteI remember a Goldberg interview after his WWE run. He trashed Vince but had nothing but positives to say about his time in WCW. Pretty understandable.
ReplyDelete"Bret was against the direction Vince wanted to go in, which would turn out to be the right call "
ReplyDelete?? How so?
Nash?
ReplyDeleteWho would he lose to?
ReplyDeleteAlways sounded like a lovers triangle gone bad between Vince/Bret/Shawn.
ReplyDeleteIDK, on paper the screwjob was a perfect way to get the belt off Bret without Bret looking bad, JR even said on Raw Bret never tapped out. It turned Bret into a mega-face going into WCW.
ReplyDeleteAll the while getting huge heel heat on HBK & Vince McMahon.
Everybody benefitted.
I'm still not sure how severe Shawn's back injury truly was. Don't get me wrong it was obviously legit unlike his '97 Losing My Smile "injury" But i believe Shawn could have been back by the end of the year if his head was screwed on straight and he was clean.
ReplyDeleteThose 2 things took him about 3 more years to clear up though. The recent Mania documentary i believe showed Shawn throwing a hissy fit at the Mania XIV post show press conference as he was upset at Austin being crowned the new Man. If Vince had said fuck it and released Shawn i'd bet good money he'd be superkicking Goldberg outta the strap at Starrcade '98 with Kevin Nash's booking behind him.
This might be just me but I have 0 sympathy for those who slam their time in WCW as awful. They all chose to jump ship for the money and we're making ludicrous amounts of money for relatively little work. The only ones I have a little sympathy for are the ones who were pushed out of wcw, mainly Bret
ReplyDeleteThe AJ Styles thing still has the smell of work all over it, too bad for TNA nobody really gives 2 shits about the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteHe'll be back fighting Christopher Daniels for the 8,344,567th time by summer anyway...if there's still a TNA to return to that is.
He seems to be the outlier which makes his return rumors all the more strange.
ReplyDeleteAccording to his book Shawn was mad because they draped an Austin 3:16 shirt on him while he was laid out and he specifically told them not to.
ReplyDeleteThat has nothing to do with the atmosphere though. Plans changing every five minutes, the show going live with no actual plan for the show, not knowing who is actually in charge. That stuff would drive me crazy regardless of my salary.
ReplyDeleteI dunno man, money doesn't square to happiness but if you're making double or triple of what you're worth and supporting your family with more money then you'd ever expect, it'd be hard for me to be really pissed. Especially if I had chosen to be there.
ReplyDeleteFoley would be a good one because he has fought in main events before and could do a redo of mind games at survivor series.
ReplyDeleteBret fought vader in a tag match at bad blood so why not make it a 1 on 1 title match.
Now that is something I'd be interested in discussing. How would WCW play out with Michaels coming in? Bret would prob be jobbing to el dandy but still interesting none the less.
ReplyDeleteYea, I agree to an extent. Shawn was so banged up physically, that bump was just the one to put it over the top. In a vacuum, the casket bump fucked him up for awhile, but combined with everything he'd put his body thtough, as well as the drugs, he was gonna be out for awhile.
ReplyDeleteImpressive showing by NE
ReplyDeleteThat last part I agree with. If guys have a chance to leave and choose not to then shut up.
ReplyDeleteI respect guys like Foley that left six-figures on the table cause they really couldn't take it anymore.
Ray Rice sucks
ReplyDeleteEven if HBK came in, Hogan was pulling the strings. He wouldn't have gotten higher than a long run with the US title and MAYBE a short run with the big belt after the nWo run was over.
ReplyDeleteHart did not like the 'edgier' less-children friendly direction the WWF was heading in, and didn't feel comfortable with DX's antics. All in all, he was not a fan of the Attitude era.
ReplyDeleteBret because you KNEW where he was going. The AJ situation was (and is) still up in the air.
ReplyDeleteWell, Hart obviously wasn't very popular with the Clique, and I think he felt the Clique undermined him. And certainly in '97 it wasn't really a secret that Nash and Shawn were good friends, he probably wasn't expecting Nash to give him a big hug on his first day of work at WCW.
ReplyDeleteIs this the thread where we all have tears in our eyes when we read what we thought of Bret's run in '97? Because I tell ya, I'm not feeling it. I got that out of my system back in December '97.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that. If it went down as Shawn claims, I'd be pissed off also. I always thought that whole press conference thing was a work until I read his book
ReplyDeleteIt's the obligatory 97 bret, Invasion or Cena heel turn question of the month.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot about the crying over Daniel Bryan's push.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, The die was cast on the Attitude Era as the way to combat WCW the minute Austin cut that promo at King of the Ring 96. Bret was adamant on not being part of that direction. Vince was getting desperate once the nWo took off and made a major tactical error in giving Bret the 20-year contract with "reasonable creative control", so the personalities were going to clash at some point.
ReplyDeleteOh well. Shawn got a taste of his own medicine.
ReplyDeleteI've even heard DDP make comments about how bad WCW. DDP!
ReplyDeleteActually, they had already finished filming for 'Shadows. I think it originally ended at Canadian
ReplyDeleteStampede. But Bret called the director and said something interesting
might happen during his last night in the WWF at Survivor Series. So
they came in to film that night.
And of course it became the center point of the whole documentary...
I don't think Bret had as big of a problem with the Attitude era as he sometimes lets on...
ReplyDeleteOne of his favorite feuds was with the foul-mouthed, middle-finger raising, beer-chugging "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.
And Bret was never one to shy away from swearing, remember that "shit" and "goddamn"-filled promo he cut after a cage match with Sid on RAW (I think it was the night after IYH: Final Four)?
Their best game of the year considering circumstances and personnel.
ReplyDeleteSo who's actually winning the AFC this year? Patriots don't have enough elite players in uniform, all other teams but the Broncos are deeply flawed themselves. Are we really trusting the Broncos to win 2 January games even if both of them are at home?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't take something as the gospel just because it was in HBK's book.
ReplyDeleteShawn's book was mostly a "work". He didn't actually write it, he had a ghostwriter. As have most WWE books, aside from Foley, Edge, and Bret Hart.
All of the Pats defensive tackles now are rookie free agents and the O-Line is patchwork.
ReplyDeleteJust depends on who gets hot. I'd take the field vs Denver in a second.
ReplyDeleteThat's the 1 thing about the nfl I really don't likem..its rare that the "best team" in the regular season ever wins the SB
ReplyDeleteWord is that Von Miller tore his ACL today
ReplyDeleteUgh. That's gonna hurt
ReplyDeleteAt the time I was really happy to see Shawn get into the top spot with that awesome heel run he was having.
ReplyDeleteThat is going to hurt them a lot.
ReplyDeleteVince met with Bret after the Sept. 22 Raw, when he told Bret he wanted to let him out of the contract and for Bret to go to WCW to get the big contract offer he had received a year earlier (when Bret was a free agent). After much back and forth, Bret faxed in his resignation at the end of October.
ReplyDeleteI didn't even know about that. That makes their already awful defense even worse. A lesser team like the Colts or Chargers (if they get in) could randomly go off for 35 points on them even in the snow.
ReplyDeleteStory just broke a little while ago:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24777516/von-miller-knee-injury-leads-fear-acl-tear
hahaha. Had to laugh at that one. Big Show used to complain all the time about that clause Hall and Nash had about all being the highest paid guys. I find that funny cause he walked in and was immediately handed the world title.
ReplyDeleteWelp, that is the only story I heard about it..
ReplyDeleteOh god the Packers are doing their best Cowboys impersonation. The past 3 minutes have been physically painful to watch and it's not even costing me money.
ReplyDeleteI would disagree a little bit on the long term impact just because it gave us the Mr. McMahon character and immediately gave him a ton of heat. I wonder how many people on the BoD were old enough to watch the show and understand how crazy that all was. I was watching it with a friend (I was 22) and couldn't believe what I was seeing.
ReplyDeleteI think the old Coliseum Video: Grudge Match may have the entire cage match.
ReplyDeleteAnd then it went and got worse. Keep Wisconsin-ites away from sharp objects tonight.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point on Vince. I'd like to think once Austin got the belt they'd be creative enough to get to the "Mr. McMahon" character on their own, but who know.
ReplyDeleteThat's a weekly topic, not a monthly one.
ReplyDeleteSteelers win. Now if they can beat the Browns they can be the 500 team the experts at ESPN expected they would be.
ReplyDeleteShawn talked about this on Austin's podcast. He admitted it was true and fessed up to being petty because he was frustrated that his career seemed to be winding down.
ReplyDeleteAnd they didn't try to force the Harts to be heels in Canada, that was the really unique part.
ReplyDeleteI've said this before but I'll NEVER understand why Bret didn't no sell the whole thing under the premise of "I never lost the belt, so I'm still the WWF champion. I'm going to the #1 promotion in the country and making 3 times as much money. You guys all saw the kind of guy who run that promotion up north, good riddance."
ReplyDeleteI know he was butt hurt about the whole thing, and I can't begrudge him for that but if he no dells it like above, he would have been better off.
If Bret stuck around and had a change of heart, I figure you can still do the title switch at SurSer and follow the timeline to WM, leading to:
ReplyDeletea) Bret attacks Austin during his first week or two as champ, revealing that he's "made a deal with the Devil" in becoming Vince's avatar, forming the Hart Corporation.
b) He and the Harts attack Helmsley and the new DX, promising to finish the job that Austin started for them.
Maybe a combination of legit hurt over how the whole thing broke down, and being egged on/mishandled by Bischoff after coming to WCW?
ReplyDeleteIf it's a work, it's not a bad idea. Just undermined by a) TNA's lack of presence and b) the alternative -- Magnus, EC3, Spud and Dixie aren't exactly a reign of terror in the making.
ReplyDeleteIf it's not, ROH should throw some cash at him to put Adam Cole over.
The Lions literally throw away the season yet again.
ReplyDeleteBecause THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!
Sorry, I wasn't clear...I knew that Bret didn't agree with it - I meant the "which would turn out to be the right call". That was the biggest period in the WWF/E's history. How was his being against that direction the right call?
ReplyDeleteI think it was mostly hurt feelings. I'd be surprised if Bischoff really egged him on only bc they never really talked about Montreal on Nitro outside of that starrcade 97 finish where they played off of it.
ReplyDeletePoint. That also ties in with the mishandling of the situation. They could've gotten more mileage out of Bret by adapting the "REAL World's Champ" angle Flair used in the WWF years earlier.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like alot of Shawns book but I'd trust Brets book as much as a national inquirer.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt. That, or any derivative storyline of that angle would have worked well. One of the biggest points of interest to me about the whole Montreal thing is how badly wcw mishandled Brets career, especially his first year. He could have drawn SO much money when he came in.
ReplyDeleteAs great as Kuechly is, there's not a defender in the NFL who gets away with more blatant fouls. He rarely gets flagged and when he does, they just pick it up and pretend it didn't happen.
ReplyDelete"Cool" is probably the last word I'd use regarding anyone in the Manning family.
ReplyDeleteConsidering all 32 teams don't play each other, being the best in the regular season doesn't necessarily mean you're the best team. A team can run a weak regular-season schedule and get HFA, but they still have to go through actual good teams come January.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's a better postseason than the NFL.
Why did he need Shawn? Shawn wasn't exactly moving the needle.
ReplyDeleteDid Bret say anything about Nash in his book? I've heard Nash talk about Bret several times and outside of quoting something Taker told Bret, I haven't heard anything negative from Kev.
ReplyDeleteEverything is set up, the only question in Bears fans' minds is how bad does LeSean hurt us? This is going to be a whoever-has-the-ball-last type game.
ReplyDeleteTotally psyched Bears fan over here.
Bears at least don't have to win. Even if they lose they can play for the division next week. Eagles don't have to win here either, win or lose they play for the division next week also.
ReplyDeleteOh, I know. But, I hate the Packers (of course) and with Rodgers probably back for next week I'd rather get it done tonight.
ReplyDeleteRecently face-turned Vader could have worked.
ReplyDeleteWell, that was a shit start in every phase.
ReplyDeleteAnd the casket bump, ironically, ended up saving his life, all things considered.
ReplyDeleteI think being one of the best ever, making butt loads of money and being generally respected by all your peers is pretty cool.
ReplyDeleteright call for vince, not bret.
ReplyDeleteI interpreted that as saying "He wasn't a big fan of the Attitude Era, which [the Attitude Era] would turn out to be the right call"
ReplyDeleteHe talked about Nash a little bit, but not much. IIRC, Nash approached Bret about joining the Clique but Bret wasn't interested. But yeah, perhaps I should walk that back a bit. But I do remember listening to the WCW web show after Montreal and before Bret actually showed up in WCW, where Nash took a couple shots at Bret.
ReplyDeleteWe just need to add a thread about Flair leaving WCW in '91 and we'll have hit the cycle (We did come close with one about his departure from WWF back to WCW).
ReplyDeleteGreat to watch, but I've never understood the overall "evil Canadian" gimmick we see time and time again in general. Where else are the USA and Canada supposed to hate each other this much outside of wrestling?
ReplyDeleteThanks. I want to track that down. Everytime I have seen this, it has been joined in progress
ReplyDeleteGO CAROLINA! DEFEAT YOUR OPPONENTS AT PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL IN TODAY'S AND ALL FUTURE CONTESTS!
ReplyDeleteIf he wasn't such a mark for himself and so caught up in his "hero" status, maybe he would have done just that. I'm with you. He totally should have shrugged it off and said "all my fans still know who the champ is and Vince McMahon can never take that away" or something
ReplyDeleteYou may be right, I think that was in Bret's book.
ReplyDeleteThe truly ridiculous part of it to me is that Bret could have come in to WCW as either the biggest babyface in the business OR as the biggest heel around....and they did neither. Bret coming in as the jaded fallen hero arriving in WCW and stealing away leadership of the nWo (after Hogan's failure at Starrcade) would have made for a compelling play on his whiny, paranoid heel persona. A "can't beat em, join 'em" and "fuck the business" sort of attitude following Montreal. Best part is it gives him a backdoor way back to being a babyface. He can give some heartfelt promo about how he was just really bitter after Montreal and how he let the fans down, blah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteOR he could have simply used the sympathy heat and the "real world champion" thing to be the biggest babyface around. Either way, WCW blew it on multiple fronts.
Not even a little bit. Mostly *because* of the fact that he wrote it himself
ReplyDeleteMakes me really sad how much WCW wasted Bret.
ReplyDeleteI think you leave Bret out of the ring until Starrcade is over, maybe just playing up the whole "whose side is he on?" thing. Maybe have Bret start appearing in WCW crowds because he's looking for his next job. Bischoff agrees to sign him, but only as an "nWo guy". Bret refuses, stays the hero, and gets himself a match for a contract (with some nWo guy?). Bret wins a contract and you go from there. Bret didn't need to be "special referee" of anything
ReplyDeleteCould you imagine Matt Flynn's stock if he got the Packers into the Playoffs, lol.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure when exactly the writing was on the wall, but if they knew by SummerSlam Bret was leaving, why not just have Undertaker retain? Shawn screws Bret over, Taker retains, but Shawn attacks Taker because he's desperate to be champion again. Bret can continue his heel/Canadian hero persona until his contract expires, while you never risk having the belt on him. Sure, Bret was the hottest heel in the company, but if he's *leaving* soon, there is no "cashing in" on that. Keep the belt on Taker for the Shawn feud, let Bret lead one last "Hart Foundation vs. Team USA" kind of deal at Survivor Series for a last hurrah. Bret & Owen survive, hug, and Bret gets a hero's farewell in Canada before leaving.
ReplyDeleteToo many ACL injuries in the NFL this year. The human body isn't meant to hold 250+ lbs. Look at all those NFL guys that can't walk right when they are retired or the linemen with two knee braces ala Steve Austin.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but Bret was never going to prevent that stuff anyway just by staying under contract with WWF.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Bret left for HUGE guaranteed money.
ReplyDeleteI can't even put into words how much this sucks right now.
ReplyDeleteSomeone's bitter about Bryan...
ReplyDeleteShawn was never a draw as champion the year before though. It's not like HBK was ever the surefire go-to draw. Aside from the great matches, he was kind of a flop as top guy. A lot of Shawn's legacy is revisionist history in terms of super-stardom.
ReplyDeleteThere must have been legit legal concerns or something. Bischoff was always petty and underhanded when it came to giving away results and taking shots at the WWF. Yet he doesn't even make mention of Bret still being WWF champ OR any real direct mentions of Montreal when he's handed all that on a platter?
ReplyDeleteIt was pathetic, actually
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, him leaving for WCW did not negatively impact the WWF at all in terms of their product. Guess Vince did overpay for him after all
He mentioned somewhere, maybe his book, that he made it a point to tell Bret he couldn't bring the belt to Nitro if he was somehow the champ when his contract expired. Said he would open himself up to huge litigation.
ReplyDeleteThis came from Bischoff so take it for what it's worth
Went to the Lions game today, and had my heart ripped from my chest for the thousandth time in my 20+ years of watching this team. God dammit every single year...
ReplyDeleteUntil the fans care enough to lynch the entire Ford family, nothing's gonna change.
ReplyDeleteIt makes sense though. Carrying the belt out probably would have been more trouble than it's worth, by the time they settle in court. Although I'm a little surprised Bischoff didn't try to at least use mention of Bret being the 'real world champion', even just as a dig for the Flair stuff in '91. They didn't need the physical belt for Bret to be able to say he never lost the title and that everyone knew he was still the rightful champ regardless of who Vince tries to prop up in his place
ReplyDeleteI agree, nothing will change. A new coach will be brought in, they will start the next season 5-0, the "Roar will be restored" again, and they will probably finish 7-9
ReplyDeleteAbout as much as Time Tebow's stock when he got the Broncos got into the playoffs and eliminated the defending champ Steelers?
ReplyDeleteThe amount of money that man has made based off of just ONE game he had in his career against one of the worst secondaries of all time is sickening
ReplyDeleteThis game is rather interesting for a squash.
ReplyDeleteFUCK ELI MANNING!
ReplyDeleteJust another fuck up for wcw in booking Brets first year. I never even thought of doing a "real world cchampion " like Flairs until you guys mentioned it, but that would have been great. Or just transition to Hogan blaming Bret for starrcade and go Hogan vs Bret for a few months. The real champ vs wcw champ thing would have been pretty awesome
ReplyDeleteI'm a Raiders fan. You think YOU got problems?
ReplyDeleteIs this the beginning of an epic Chicago comeback for the ages?
ReplyDeleteDon't know who laid a bigger egg, the Bears or the Ravens. Incredibly both might get out of this unscathed. The NFL is such a weird league.
ReplyDeleteThe Packers have an excuse at least. The Lions' meltdown is horrible.
ReplyDeleteIn his defense, most of the pre-X-Pac and Outlaws DX stuff was really stupid anyways,
ReplyDeleteRodgers back next week. This could really suck.
ReplyDeleteI'm a thread jacking pro...Bret Hart --> starrcade 97->
ReplyDeleteHas anyone ever said in a book or dvd why Hogan agreed to drop the belt to sting at starrcade? Yea to us it was the most obvious move but Hulksters does nothing out of altruism. Was he promised a win down the road like when he jobber to Goldberg? Bigger payday? Did he just once do what was best for the company as a whole?
Flair was in tears when Bobby shook his hand goodbye before the match. Flair is one if those "you gave me no choice - personality"
ReplyDelete...fair enough.
ReplyDeleteThis seems a lot like a screw job question...
ReplyDeleteChicago was like "Imma try an onside kick here" and the football was like "Nope, homey don't play that."
ReplyDeleteThreadjack: They are doing 30 for 30 with Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard.
ReplyDeleteThe season is 17 weeks long.
ReplyDeleteWell, not any more, but it was for a while...
ReplyDeleteThis game is so bad. Why am I still watching.
ReplyDeleteLike most everything with the Kliq, Nash and the others get a guilty by association then when it comes to Shawn being a dick.
ReplyDeleteThis seems like it's no different. Nash and Bret seemed to have always been on good terms and what-not.
I like Bryan, doesn't mean the topic doesn't get old.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but think about is as if Vince is running a football team. He hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years and every team in the league is prepared for his predictable offence being lead by a veteran quarterback who still wants to be the starter and still wants to run his predictable offence....Vince decides he wants to change the offence with a new quarterback who can run a more modern offence. It wouldn't be easy to do that with the veteran quarterback bitching and complaining that they should still be doing things his way the whole time. I think it's just easier to let Bret be on his way rather than have him continually complaining when Raw closes with a bucket of shit being dumped on Vince's car and not him carrying someone to an all time classic.
ReplyDeleteIt also got two cancers out of the lockeroom, neither of them being really strong draws.
ReplyDeleteI think Nick Patrick said in a shoot interview he forgot the finish. Like, how do you forget the finish in the biggest show of the year?
ReplyDeleteAs for why Hogan agreed to do the job... I don't remember anything in his book about it. I mean, Hogan had to know as a heel he'd have to do the job eventually, right?
Why would they put him over if he was leaving, especially if someone like Austin was in this match? So it'd still be the same mess in a different scenario.
ReplyDeleteShawn has said as much in a couple of places.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely. Whoever put together the McMemphis series should be commended.
ReplyDeleteNew trivia: Eagles/Bears was the first game in NFL history to end in a score of 54-11.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if that quite works. I distinctly remember Bret and Patterson discussing the finish of the SummerSlam match and Bret asking Pat if Shawn was turning heel. Or was it supposed to end with Bret winning the title?
ReplyDeleteHow many "evil Canadians" have there really been?
ReplyDeleteThe All-American Boy Rougeaus weren't "evil." They were just being dicks. Bret wasn't "evil"--he was bitter and his frustrations with American wrestling crowds felt organic and real (don't care if they were real or not--they *felt* that way, which is what mattered). Edge was a Canadian who was evil, but not an "evil Canadian," if you follow me.
Dino Bravo and Frenchy Martin...okay, they sucked. But that's as far as it goes. (Earthquake was only "Canadian" for a few months before that aspect was essentially dropped, and he and Bravo just became partners in crime.) And the Un-Americans were really bad. But none of those were remotely similar to what Bret and the Hart Foundation were doing.
Also trying to remember which year it was when Canuck fans booed the playing of the Banner. And of course there was the righteous indignation over when a God-forbid Canadian team had the audacity the World Series in '92.
Hart's wasnt a WWE release
ReplyDeleteBret's book was pretty interesting but Bret comes off as such a mark for himself that its kind of sad...
ReplyDeleteI never liked Bret. His tights were pink.
ReplyDeleteSongs was oddly catchy.
ReplyDeleteGood. They play the Bengals next week and I hope they don't rest their starters.
ReplyDeleteChicago would win the division (8-7-1 vs 7-7-2) on a scoreless tie.
ReplyDeleteA+, and FUCK!
ReplyDeleteA little more than two months ago, the Saints were 5-0, Carolina was 1-3, Atlanta was 1-4, and the Bucs were 0-4.
Then New England (FUCK!), New York (FUCK!), Seattle (ouch), St. Louis (FUCK! ouch), and Carolina (FUCK!) happened.
This is a team good enough to be 13-2... and bad enough to be 6-9. So 10-5 is pretty damn balanced.
BLESS PEYTON MANNING! FUCK TOM (WHINY BITCH) BRADY!
ReplyDeleteTHEY ARE OF LESSER ABILITY THAN CAROLINA, MY LOCAL SPORTS FRANCHISE!
ReplyDeleteRazor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund had its purpose?
ReplyDeleteGood zinger. No idea what I thought when I wrote THAT line THAT way. I should´ve added "...at the Rumble" - WM9 had it´s matches that could be replaced for sure.
ReplyDelete