Tonight's finish just seems like someone in the back making sure Daniel Bryan stops being over. He was their biggest face and they do THIS. And now your Doomers are saying I'm overreacting and just being a smark bitch. NO! How can you justify this? How can THEY?
I'm baffled, Scott. This is such an awful decision...
I think it's disappointing that they had this idea for Bryan and they're bullheadedly going with it no matter how much the crowd rejects it, but it's certainly not out of character or unexpected by them. The days of Vince giving a shit about his fanbase are long, long gone.
No, no, no! Wrestling is about delayed gratification. Hero needs to suffer setbacks, and he'll spend some time being a reluctant heel, but he'll rebel against the Wyatts come Rumble and triumph at Mania.
ReplyDeleteBecause if all that happened was Bryan won the title and then beat every challenger, where's the fun in that?
"but he'll rebel against the Wyatts come Rumble and triumph at Mania."
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that while this is logical, Vince and WWE creative have shown a tendency to exactly the opposite of logical, whether out of incompetence (creative) or spite (Vince, presumably).
I was thinking it could be the beginning of a face turn for the Wyatt's. They've been pretty well over since before they even set foot in the ring. Maybe they're the faction that brings down the authority figures, with Bryan's help. Then, Bryan gets made, new stars are born, and we get Cena, Orton, HHH, and everyone else finally out of the title logjam and elevate new people and fresh product going forward.
ReplyDeleteIf you'll excuse me for a second, I'm also waiting for AJ to be at my door wearing her championship belt and nothing else.
If you delay the gratification for too long, then the fans eventually stop giving a shit (see: Luger, Lex ca. 1989).
ReplyDelete'I was thinking it could be the beginning of a face turn for the Wyatt's.
ReplyDeleteThey've been pretty well over since before they even set foot in the
ring. Maybe they're the faction that brings down the authority figures,
with Bryan's help'
yeah, i posted the same thought in the pg review. having dry talking about the machine is what caused planted the idea for me
They gotta keep Bryan against a stable because there is only one main event heel, and it's Orton. Everyone else is a midcard heel treading water. Bryan's too popular to go up against a Damien or Fandango for an extended time. And there's no other face for the Wyatt's to target to any crowd interest. This is the result of blah booking. Four top guys, and only one of them is a heel.
ReplyDelete'Hero needs to suffer setbacks'
ReplyDeletehe got canned after being sent home for a while... dude has had enough setbacks
Looking like a total fool, being cast aside so Big Slow could face Orton, a lame feud with the Wyatts. What else has to happen to him?
ReplyDeleteThere's a great story here where Daniel Bryan finds his confidence again, defeats the Wyatt's, wins the Rumble and goes onto finally winning the belt at WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem is there isn't a shot in hell this will actually happen.
Nope, not with Cena, Punk, Lesnar, and Batista around
ReplyDeleteI think this is a bit too forward-thinking, but it would be a neat scenario, provided we all don't shit our pants in the meantime.
ReplyDelete"Nope, not with HHH around"
ReplyDeleteFTFY
Or, of course, Sting not winning at Starcade '97.
ReplyDeleteRelated Threadjack: Here is a reddit post describing what went down after RAW
ReplyDeletehttp://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/1u2lsu/so_i_just_left_raw/
im excited for jesse bakers long winded imminent email on the situation.
ReplyDeleteAh yes how could i forget?
ReplyDeleteThe Wyatts' final segment on NXT had Bray playing the face in a promo where he talks about 'bringing down the machine.' If that's where this is going (Bryan joining them because he needs backup against the Authority) then I'm at least convinced that Bray can play the role of creepy anti-hero face stable leader.
ReplyDeleteLink: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBIKed_9gfg
Seriously, if Kane is a plant by the Wyatt's, and this is all like, actually thought out, I will be VERY impressed with WWE's writing staff.
ReplyDeleteSeriously.
didnt Kane say the same thing as Bryan when he joined the authority "im yours", right? hmmm something may be fishy here.
ReplyDeleteThere have been enough hints that they have been dropping about things that this makes perfect sense, and it would make for some awesome mark-out moments in the next few weeks, if it happens, of course.
ReplyDeleteObviously they got someone new doing the writing...
Well, again, if this is truly the direction they're going, the hints were subtle enough that I missed them. Not that that is a huge accomplishment, by any means, but usually everything is fed to us with a sledgehammer's worth of subtlety.
ReplyDeleteI agree. There are a lot of signs pointing that way. And I think WWE remembers the huge crowd pop from that initial Wyatts/Shield confrontation. I'm as tentatively optimistic about this as always, but this could be a hell of a Road to Wrestlemania story if it does all end up tying together.
ReplyDeleteWrestling plot-lines are graded on a curve.
ReplyDeleteI think I would be OK with a crazy-ass Wyatts-Shield brawl at WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, yes, I wrote this. And yes, I didn't get it. I'm not sure I do *now*.
ReplyDeleteI think there's a few things going on..
ReplyDelete1) Some people want to at least get some feeling about how an angle will pay out before dumping all over it. I keep saying that, although I kind of feel like Charlie Brown thinking that this will be the time Lucy lets him kick the football. I keep hoping that they'll pay off an angle in a good way, but they never seem to. We keep hoping this will be that time.
2) The blog's attitude about Bryan is all over the place. A lot of people really want him to be the top guy (or a top guy) and they're convinced (or are desperately hoping) that the WWE sees things the same way and is building up to it. Or they think Bryan is about to be Zach Rydered into oblivion. I suspect the WWE views his place somewhere in between those extremes.
The story you're proposing would be a lot more interesting if it hadn't literally just happened with the Big Show a month or so ago.
ReplyDeleteLots and lots of faces on Twitter commenting on the D Bry turn. Yeah there's something up.
ReplyDeleteBy my count, this is the 24th time that WWE has buried and ruined Daniel Bryan beyond repair since WM 28. (Yet he's still as over as ever.) Maybe 25th time will be the charm.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy(ed) your recap/rant(s), including this one. I'd rather hear someone's opinion on what they like or didn't like instead of a bland retelling of what happened.
ReplyDeleteUnless they disagree with what I like or didn't like.
I don't see it. Not with Vince salivating over the already enrolling Reigns solo face turn.
ReplyDeleteI would be so shocked and amazed if that's where they were going. All sins forgiven.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, WWE cut D-Bry's speech against The Authority on the video of RAW's ending posted on the site.
ReplyDeleteWyatts as faces would be interesting, but they have a TON of layers to peel off from Bray's character to get there - not even close to it yet.
ReplyDeleteNot this again. People keep comparing this to the authority angle. It's not.
ReplyDeleteA) it doesn't have the semantics that come with a HHH centric angle.
B) the authority angles only objective was to get HHH and the authority over. It didn't matter what the fans wanted, WWE had their mind set on getting the authority over. I believe, and I admit I could be wrong, that the end game will be a Bryan "breaking the trance" and going over Bray. I believe this is the end game in WWES mind right now.
Agreed. And when Bryan finally goes over, it'll be in a downcard, afterthought type moment, so they can segue Bryan back into a forgettable midcard role with (as they hope) vacuumed face heat.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me a little bit of when Jake Roberts asked the Ultimate Warrior to join the darkside. I wonder if the internets as they are today were around back then, would everyone be freaking out about the Warrior turning heel when he was still popular?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, I think this definitely ends up with DB going over after some twists and turns.
It was by no means a clear cut heel turn. Do we really think Bryan is going to show up on Raw next week and just casually be the new Wyatt member? Let's play it out.... *crowd* AND SEE WHERE IT GOES! YEAAAAH!
ReplyDeleteApples to Oranges. Jake himself didn't fully turn heel until the Warrior was bitten by the snake and Taker and Bearer appeared.
ReplyDeleteI disagree in that he was heelish enough that you knew something bad was going to happen if he "joined up" with him. Two things happen with this, the rest of the Wyatts turn on DB and beat him down after being in the group for awhile, which really enrages DB and he goes on a crusade to destroy the Wyatt family, or he dispatches them quicker as a means to get back to the title chase. Either one is a good storyline for him.
ReplyDeleteAndy, let me just say that for the most part, I love your reviews and I make sure to read on pretty much everything you do here on the Blog. And I respect your opinion in opposition to what happened last night, I just don't happen to agree with it.
ReplyDeleteI know we've made a running gag out of "let it play out and see where it goes," but last night was the prime example of needing a little patience. It was the opening chapter to a new story (yes, we're telling stories, too!), and again, there are subtle signs that all is not as it seems right now.
This isn't going to be Breaking Bad-levels of television. It probably won't even be Law & Order-levels (Lost is most likely, I know!). But I think it's going to draw us in and lead to one hell of a mark out moment at some point soon.
Daniel Bryan went from dropping the WHC to Sheamus in 18 seconds two years ago to being placed in a main event storyline on the road to the Road to Wrestlemania. They haven't buried him yet, I don't think they're going to.
Can we just identify the people who think this is a legit heel turn so they can be mocked and ridiculed?
ReplyDeleteThis image was retweeted by Bray Wyatt: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bcv5RJkCcAEsqqc.jpg
ReplyDeleteAnd was later followed up by this: Kingdoms Will Fall #DownWithTheMachine
I disagree that it's a legit turn, but I think people who are concerned are most worried about this taking away from Bryan's "over-ness". I don't think a month or two of storyline - especially if they end up bludgeoning us with hints that something is off about this - is going to take away from a bit of his heat.
ReplyDeleteThen again, other than the seeming minority of fans who think and talk about this shit online, I'd venture to guess the majority of wrestling fans wouldn't understand this angle.
I really can't bring myself to buy this angle as a legit attempt to bury Bryan as if it was it wouldn't have been placed in the main event of the show. I mean they could have easily ended Raw with the Lesnar returns and splits Mark Henry's wig angle, but they instead they went with Bryan joining the Wyatts which I suspect means they have big plans for the feud.
ReplyDeletenah. Jake was a face in that situation. Jake's heel turn was a surprise to me!
ReplyDeleteHere's my problem with the whole, "DB is working the Wyatts". He got a Sister Abigail. I just HATE HATE HATE angles where a person intentionally gets himself beat up to achieve something. It's just plain illogical.
ReplyDeleteLike when Samoa Joe just handed Angle the belt in that KOTM match and reveal that he had joined MEM when not only did the build to the match include Joe violently taking out each MEM member but THE MATCH ITSELF included Angle and Joe putting each other through various ladder spots. Destroyed all suspension of disbelief.
this plus the video's throughout the night.
ReplyDeleteto be fair, if he can survive being pinned in 8 seconds at wrestlemania, he can survive this.
ReplyDeleteHell, he beat all three members of the Wyatts in the gauntlet!
It makes sense because Wyatt is a nutter...
ReplyDeleteIt makes sense if it is Bryan pretending to go along with Bray. Because he can't get him one on one without Harper and Rowan interceding. By going along with them for a bit, it'll end with him being able to get him one and one and destroy him in revenge.
How is his face turn "unraveling"? Dont be a fucking moron, if anything, last night proved that turning him face is a good idea. The crowd was going nuts to see him fight CM Punk.
ReplyDelete"edit: also, let's call a spade a spade. Working under the premise that
ReplyDeletethe end game is Bryan going over the Wyatts say at elimination chamber
or mania, this is a really good story development and overall wrestling
angle."
I hope you are right, but I will remain pessimistic of even that unfolding. I'm more worried that he'll lose some heat in the process, but we'll see.
True, but he wasn't as monstrously over then as he is now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fan of this angle or The Wyatts in general. There is no way logical way to pay off the Wyatt Family angle. In this PG era the Wyatts will remain half pregnant (trademark Kevin Nash). Everyone thinks this may be part of some bigger master plan, I think Vince put D Bry with the Wyatts because of his beard and hair. I hope Daniel comes out next week dressed like Kidman circa The Flock.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I was a more jaded 12 year old than normal cause I knew it would be a bad idea for the Warrior to team up with Jake lol.
ReplyDeleteThe dude lost in 18 seconds at Wrestlemania of all places, and was still way over as a face, it's gonna take a whole lot effort to push him to meaningless status.
ReplyDeleteI know Kayfabe is long dead, but Bray Wyatt using a computer to tweet just kills his whole character. Unless of course I.R.S. is revealed as his father.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I mean honestly it just feels that in order to get Big Dave to sign a contract they promised him a World title match at Wrestlemania so now they are putting a red hot Daniel Bryan in an angle designed to last till Wrestlemania. For all we know the Orton/Batista match could completely blow forcing Vince to put Daniel Bryan or CM Punk in the World Title picture.after Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteProbably. i was a lot less cynical back then
ReplyDeleteI think the heel turn/face turn question sort of misses what's wrong with what we saw on Monday night. The story they're telling is entirely crazy and sad.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, they're not burying Bryan by having him turn on the fans...they're burying him by defeating him as a character or, you know, as a human being.
He won the belt as a nod the chants and then lost it seconds later. Then, he got buried on TV by HHH and...lost the feud, even having his own push usurped by a tired old act like the Big Show. The main events for Summerslam and TLC were Orton vs Big Show and Orton vs Cena, effectively transforming Bryan's archrival into the star of the show, who bested him and moved on. Lesson: the Authority wins, Bryan is not the guy.
When the WWE fans voted him Superstar of the Year, the term became a backhanded compliment by HHH. "Oh look...it's the Superstar of the Year." Bryan's comeback to this? Nothing. Lesson: Even if the fans love you, the company is all that matters.
Then he entered into a feud with the Wyatts, and after several months of beating them in matches, and in tag team matches, finally, he wound up on his hands and knees, begging to join them. Because he's no match for his enemies.
Lesson: he's just one guy, and one guy, with enough pressure and big enough bullies, will eventually give in and fail.
At that point, who cares if Bryan is a babyface? Or a heel? The fact that he's over at all is a testament to his natural talent and charisma and experience. But it's clear that if the fans stopped cheering Bryan tomorrow, the WWE would be entirely fine with that.
Bully Ray actually explained this when Devon joined Aces and Eights. He said some sacrifices did have to be made and Devon could take an ass-kicking.
ReplyDeleteThat's fair. That's my assumption because it's such a logical next step and payoff to the story. If that's not how it plays out I take back everything I said in this thread and my debate with worst in the world. I honestly don't think it's a burial b type feud. I've been comparing Bryan to Foley forever. Look at how often he was "buried" before his payoff. He was fine. Think it's the same type of bokong/thought process by wwe
ReplyDeleteBut I don't think he's been working the Wyatts.......until now. He gave up, he's tired of getting beat downs, and singled out by the authority to be in constant gauntlet matches and handicap matches, so for his self preservation, he's "joining" the enemy. Now as a thinking man's face, if he uses the cover of his enemies, who think they've got a prime new recruit, it's a brilliant move and he can turn on them later.
ReplyDelete...I have a great idea, but I don't think WWE would be doing it.
ReplyDeleteBryan turns the Wyatts to faces. Kingdoms Will Fall? That's obviously the Authority. Even more so, Triple H's last DVD was called Thy Kingdom Come.
So Bryan and the Wyatts battle the Authority and Kane and their lackeys. Bryan turns Kane back into the Big Red Machine at the Feb PPV (whatever it's called). At WM, Bryan vs. Triple H. Triple H taps to the Yes-Lock.
I can only speak for myself.
ReplyDeletebut I would GLADLY take back all the criticism if the WWE manages to turn this angle into something awesome.
Storyline-wise, it made sense, at least. Warrior was scared spitless after being locked in the casket, and Jake's handle of his "dark side" seemed like a natural to help train Warrior for dealing with Taker's.
ReplyDeleteI really hope this doesnt lead to another week filled with Bryan threads.
ReplyDeleteThe first of (many) questions I have is that if this is a scam by DBry to destroy them from within then why didn't he join them earlier and save himself the copious amounts of ass kickings he took?
ReplyDeleteI dunno, this to me seems more like a real story than having him "beat the odds" again. Get your ass beat constantly for months--get tired of it--"believe" a guy that says "they'll rule the world together", and join them after one final beat down...yes it could turn out to suck, but it's not the worst storyline in the world.
ReplyDeleteI think because he thought he could handle it and do it himself....which he did, for quite awhile, but every person has their breaking point when it feels like he's not making any progress....and he's continuing to take beat downs. That's why it makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows Rowan handles the tech stuff.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but maybe I was influenced by my dad and brother who kept saying "Jake's gonna turn on him, just watch it happen"....how can you really trust a guy who always says "trust me" with a creepy grin?
ReplyDeleteIts the optimist in me.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying it doesn't make sense (if they are truly doing what you are saying) but this raises questions that honestly go contrary to the angle.
ReplyDeleteI thought Punk and DBry had a team. Why did they stop having each others backs?
Ask Sting.
ReplyDeleteAwesomesauce!
ReplyDeleteYou could almost say that with any face that gets beat down, the other faces rarely come in to help.
ReplyDeleteI'm ok with the angle because DB being a loner/"I can defend the tag titles by myself/I'm not the weak link" etc so it would make sense for him to try and take them down himself. Even with Brad Maddox made gauntlet match #4,598 involving Daniel Bryan, he just went along with it because he thinks he can do it.
As far as Punk and DB goes, you have a point there for sure, I wonder if that's why they put Punk against the Shield so he's tied up with them at the moment.
Bryan joins the Wyatts. Wyatts target "the machine". Eventually, Wyatt is revealed as a tool of Triple H to conquer Bryan, and the rage against the machine was just a facade by Wyatt. Bryan, Harper and Rowan are disillusioned, turn on Wyatt. Harper and Rowan look to Bryan to lead them. Bryan vows to take down the machine, along with Wyatt the tool. All leading to Bryan vs. Triple H at some PPV down the line. That leaves Harper and Rowan as a tag team, Wyatt as a heel singles wrestler, and Bryan is back to being a face with a slightly different persona.
ReplyDeleteOR MAYBE I HAVE OVERTHOUGHT IT AND BRYAN HAS BEEN SABOTAGED!
Glass half full: Daniel Bryan is a legit made guy, and he's helping elevate the Wyatts to create new stars.
ReplyDeleteGlass half empty: Daniel Bryan is getting buried and getting dragged down to the low card levels of the Wyatts.
*month*
ReplyDeleteInteresting storyline arc, I approve!
ReplyDeleteI really don't understand how anyone can believe this is leading to a bigger push for Bryan. It's pretty obvious they don't want him getting these reactions. It's over guys.
ReplyDeleteLike I said in the other threads, "playing mind games" is just as cliche in wrestling as Vince sabotaging someone's push b/c he doesn't see the same thing in them the rest of us do. There is just as much chance this is Bryan "working" the Wyatts to beat them as there is this is his official heel turn. And I'm one of the most cynical Vince-hating fucks around! I don't think it's a bad storyline at all. If it leads to Bryan/Wyatt at Mania, yeah that would be a waste, but it's hard to tell at this point. They clearly don't even know what matches they want to make this year and yet.
ReplyDeleteThe directions to go in after Summerslam were pretty cut & dry, and yeah they went with the wrong one as usual. This one is a little less easy though, so I'm gonna wait a few weeks before I start calling for anyone's head...and believe me, I'm not deluded enough to think that I won't. It helps that I generally do like the Wyatts though.
While I'm remaining positive, I'm with you about the beard/hair. Vince is that simple, he probably thinks it's the most logical thing in the world to do.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the Wyatts. What exactly is their "cult" against?
ReplyDelete*2014*
ReplyDeleteThey've been mentioning 'the machine' for a long time. It was a vague reference to begin with but now it seems to be that the machine could be The Authority, and this storyline could be the one that reveals a bit more about Bray's motivation. If Kane's deal is explained too, even better.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing...it's not a bad storyline at all! We're all just butthurt that Bryan's not the champ and seemingly won't be near the main event at Mania this year. But all in all, this is a good wrestling angle. I'm enjoying it just fine. Far better than the previous storyline he was in, and he's situated quite firmly at the top of the card. To expect anyone other than Cena to be given more is just fucking foolish.
ReplyDeleteRemember the week in 2012 after Mania and Raw when everything was either about Lesnar's or Bryan's 18 second loss and sudden huge fan support? Then a Lesnar v Bryan speculation post went up and http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/excited3.gif
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which, a Lesnar vs Bryan speculation thread would be quite entertaining now too.
Zack Ryder main evented shows also. Just saying is all
ReplyDeleteIt seems like most of us see the glass half empty.
ReplyDeleteThis is just typical WCW booking - take a guy who is over (Bryan) and stick him with someone you want to get over (Wyatt). In most cases, the over guy just winds up losing heat. But Bryan can buck that trend as long as he isn't intentionally sabotaged.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why that would be.
ReplyDeleteInteresting take with the Wyatt splitting. It seems like too many twists piled up to get to essentially the same place, but I'd still dig it.
ReplyDeleteJudging by WWE's track record over the past few years, it's understandable.
ReplyDeleteThe Wyatts aren't low card, though. Kofi Kingston is low card. Big difference.
ReplyDeleteIt's already starting.
ReplyDeleteThe Wyatts are a step above Kofi. Right now they have glorified jobbers, midcard jobbers, upper mid card and John Cena. All are pretty much interchangeable except for the John Cena spot.
ReplyDeleteBy getting pushed off the stage in a wheelchair?
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to see what thy do when Cena can't wrestle anymore.
ReplyDeleteI predict it will be the "new generation" all over again. Push a guy until business completely bombs and then just start from scratch.
ReplyDeleteGood thing they have Big E and Reigns for now.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with heel vs. heel feuds, so I would have been perfectly happy with a Wyatts/Shield program, even if it led to a 6-man tag at Mania. But noooo, SOME people have to be all horny for a Reigns push.
ReplyDeleteAll that is missing is some evil foreigners. I don't keep up with current events so I'm not sure what nations the U.S. is currently feuding with.
ReplyDeleteThey should do that six man tag match now that Vince says there are no longer heels or faces.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I was thinking. Plus I'm sorry, Reigns is just not ready yet. Keep them together, or break Ambrose off & keep Rollins & Reigns as a big man/little man tag team for a while.
ReplyDeleteI think that would be awesome. Do a wild NWA-style stable vs. stable war. Crazy ECW-brawls every time they meet, just so it feels a little different than the norm. Fans can just pick which stable they like the best, rather than there being a WWE-Endorsed face turn for either.
ReplyDeleteA Russian heel, and maybe someone from Iran, wait a minute...
ReplyDeleteNot to mention when they were getting in each other's face that RAW before Survivor Series, the crowd was INTO it. The place was buzzing like crazy.
ReplyDeleteI would have no problem with that.
ReplyDeletethe more things change...
ReplyDeleteOne show.
ReplyDeleteWhich did abysmal ratings.
Every show after that had him looking like a giant putz when it was in a main event segment.
I was excited that night for 30 seconds.
ReplyDeleteThe more they stay the same...
ReplyDeleteWell, give the WWE credit for this:
ReplyDelete1] They know whomever leaves the Shield will turn face;
2] They know Dean Ambrose should not be a face.
So I think splitting Reigns off isn't a bad choice. I just hope they keep all three equal in the long run.
WWE: If you can't change a tire, you're not a main event player.
ReplyDeleteThey probably won't.
ReplyDeleteI see the glass kicked over.
ReplyDeletethat's where I thought things were headed in the fall. Would have been sick!
ReplyDeleteSame as it ever was
ReplyDeleteSame as it ever was
It should have been at TLC.
ReplyDeleteWhy not just fire him or exile him to NXT?
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton/Shield vs. DBry/Wyatts would have made a nice Survivor Series match.
ReplyDeletePoint is all of the "let it play out" people were saying the same thing then. WWE has burned up all their let it play out tokens with me. At the point we know how it plays out. The same way it always does.
ReplyDeleteSomeone pissed in my drink so I'm just going to pour it out.
ReplyDeleteI hope they somehow tie Kane into this. He's got enough backstory with Bryan, wyatts, and the authority to make him a compelling figure in this
ReplyDeleteSometimes I think that HHH took the whole, "Get punished for the MSG incident" as reasoning for putting the wrestlers he doesn't like through hell and back. His logic being if he could get through hogpen matches for a year than these wrestlers can go through 1 day title reigns, stolen catch phrases, aborted pushes, etc.
ReplyDeleteLOL, if they were really punishing the guy or "didn't want" him to be over, they would have just stopped showing him on TV like they did with Ryder.
ReplyDeleteWWE.com has some short DB/Wyatt reaction videos with Punk and Big E. (Brodus Clay and Axel too, but those ones are mostly worthless).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/raw-december-30-2013-exclusives
Kane: "I sided with HHH and am wearing expensive suits. You didn't listen and are you're gonna be wearing wifebeaters that haven't been washed in 3 weeks."
ReplyDeleteHe is in a major storyline. He is not being punished. Some people here can only see it from their point of view.
ReplyDeleteHogpen matches came before MSG but your point is noted.
ReplyDeleteOne thing HHH forgets is that he wasn't over. He just thought it was his turn. That's the big difference. He though the spot belonged to him whereas the fans want these guys to have that spot.
If they ran with the Bryan/Punk/Cody/Goldust/Usos vs Shield/Wyatts at Survivor Series instead of Raw, had the heels implode, then do another wild 6man tlc with pins like last year that would have been a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteYeah true. Which is why I say keep them together for the time being. It's too soon for Reigns so pushing him now will make him falter. Ambrose is ready to go out there and cut 2010/2011 Punk heel promos of his life, but they have enough top heels already.
ReplyDeleteHe main evented a show where everyone of significance was working a house show elsewhere. If Cena or Orton had been there, do you really think this would've gone on last?
ReplyDeleteThat is not the argument. The argument is that his push and crowd reactions do not line up.
ReplyDeleteHe is in a major storyline. That is a push. As long as you are a major focus on TV, you are getting pushed
ReplyDeleteBy the way, do we know where this is angle is going yet? Because until we do, why waste time speculating how it is going to bury him?
Either way, some people here are overreacting to an insane degree. Hell, story-wise, he could still win the Rumble.
I don't see it lasting, and/or ending in a swerve. Think: the tease when the New Age Outlaws joined the corporation, or when (name your WCW face) pretended to join the nWo,
ReplyDeleteHe's been in major storylines the entire year, so he's been pushed. Again, the push he has received doesn't line up with the reactions he gets.
ReplyDeleteHe has been the most over person in the company most of the year so the thought is his push should reflect that.
Another possibility would be Harper aligning with Bryan against Wyatt and Rowan as a nod to Harper's indy background.
ReplyDeleteThe storyline isn't the problem; the problem is that they're shoehorning the wrong character into the storyline. Bryan is the most organically over face that they have, and really only one of three wrestlers on the active roster that really connect AT ALL with the fan base (Cena, Punk). The storyline would've worked twenty years ago when the fan base was more patient; now, though? When has this shitbrain company ever managed to not fuck up an angle in the last decade?
ReplyDeleteI hate to be "that guy", but Bryan is pretty much a non-issue now. To anyone who has faith in the WWE not to utterly destroy his upward momentum once and for all, you're delusional.
Lets not pretend like he has been trading wins with midcarders all year.
ReplyDeleteFrom Aug-Oct, he was in the main events for all of the PPV's.
He was the major focus for the last half-hour of RAW last night.
My point is, he is being pushed and no one knows how this will all end up so why waste time getting angry and speculating on how it is going to bury Bryan
Man, I just don't get the discussion on this at all. I might get annoyed if Bryan becomes a Wyatt instead of turning on them, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, the whole thing could've been started better, but I'm fine with it right now because it legitimizes the Wyatts, it gives fans a reason to care about them and it makes for an interesting angle on Bryan.
ReplyDeleteI'm usually one of the first people to get riled up about a stupid story, but this is one thing I just don't get the outrage about.
Again, no one is saying he is being buried. The point is the most over guy should be THE focal point, not one of the focal points or a focal point sometimes.
ReplyDeleteThe fans are calling for Bryan to be the man and WWE has refused to listen for two years. That is the reason people are not overly optimistic.
Read these threads. A good portion of people are thinking he is being buried because of last night
ReplyDeleteNah, I disagree. I think they used Bryan *because* he's so over that they needed someone to give the Wyatts a jolt. Their feud with Kane didn't exactly get people talking, but now that they are involved with Bryan? Just look at Andy's Way Too Long Review.
ReplyDeleteI'll change my mind if the audience takes a crap on the angle and/or it starts going downhill, but I'm intrigued.
He's not winning the rumble! Scott posted Meltzer's report months ago that they don't see him as the guy. It's donezo. Vince was reportedly furious when the Seattle crowd ruined the unification thingy. This is probably a small cog in a story that leads to Cena vs Wyatt.
ReplyDeleteName 1 storyline from the past 3 years where you waited and saw it go somewhere halfway decent, let alone good?
ReplyDeleteWhether it lasts or not, what's the point? Who does it help in the long run? If Bryan turns on the Wyatts, it makes them look like fucking morons for trusting the guy they just spent months feuding with. If Bryan DOESN'T turn on them, then he's utterly wasted in a lackey's role when the fans clamor to get behind him as THEIR guy.
ReplyDeleteA major player has a chance in the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteRight now, he is not the favorite though.
Nothing is "donezo" either. He joined the Wyatt's a minute beforre RAW went off of the air. Sometimes, you really have to let it play out.
If it somehow leads to Cena & Bryan & Hogan vs. Wyatt's, then that would be great for Bryan.
My whole point in all of this is why sit around and figure out ways how this will fail and just watch, because no one has any idea what will happen next. That alone makes for interesting viewing.
Why do even bother watching if you have hated the past three years of booking?
ReplyDeleteBecause that makes too much sense.
ReplyDeleteBc I was very optimistic all the way up to HITC then I realized all that negative gossip I had been reading is probably accurate and this development accentuates that. I have a nautious feeling that it'll be Cena vs Bray at WM with Bryan's "soul hanging in the balance" or some bonkers shit where he's part of the main story but doesn't wrestle at mania
ReplyDeleteI doubt it turns out this way, but remember...the writers have background in TV/film and would chomp at the bit for an angle like this.
ReplyDeleteMania hasnt been booked yet and just one match (not including the Rumble match itself) has been booked for the Rumble. You really should just watch instead of worrying about your personal nightmare booking scenario coming true
ReplyDeleteI know you're right, but what we see on TV and the gossip on the net tell 2 completely different stories. And what years of watching has taught me is that generally things lead to the lamest booking scenario possible. Last year at this time Punk was WHITE HOT as champ and the story was Cena winning the rumble to take Punk down at mania. Not a Cena fan myself, but that's what the story on TV seemed to be leading to. But no, I had been reading for months it was gonna be Rock/Cena 2 and that's what we got. Point being it just doesn't seem fathomable that after all I've read about the upper brass' perception of Bryan backstage that this could lead to anything I would enjoy.
ReplyDeleteSome people just aren't in their comfort zone unless they are miserable about something I guess. And I can think of dozens of good storylines from the past 3 years, but that's just me I guess.
ReplyDeleteFor me, there is so much stuff going on, with Lesnar and Batista in play for the Rumble, that I am intrigued as to what is going to happen. There are so many ways they can do. Dont forget, at one point this Summer, Bryan was reportedly going to win the Rumble. A few weeks ago, Punk was rumored to win the Rumble. They seem to be taking the fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants approach to booking right now
ReplyDeleteThere are so many ways they can go for the Rumble and for Mania that the road to the show looks pretty intriguing to me.
Not trying to pick on you or single you out, but just letting you know that the star power for Mania this year seems to be heavy. That should make for a fun show, shouldn't it?
i can see some people showing passion in their arguments but most of this seems like people who channel the anger in life through wrestling angles.
ReplyDeleteThose people must have hated the Batman series. I mean, that 8 year old kid just let his parents get killed, and didn't even attack and beat up the killers! WHAT A LOSER! why would anyone root for that wimp!!
ReplyDeleteThey probably hated the ending of "Rudy," because he was booked to look weak at the end
ReplyDeleteHey man it's conversation!
ReplyDeleteMy thing is I don't find Batista entertaining at all in any way. I liked that heel promo where he told Cena he's in it for "winning title & making money," but hey I also think puppy dogs are adorable and love watching the sun set, but that was just one moment in like 6 or so years of being bored by that guy always. And I KNOW they're gonna put the stinkin' strap on him at Mania so he can go on Guardians of the Galaxy press junkets with the title.
My assumption is Lesnar enters the rumble, gets eliminated by surprise entrant Undertaker. Lesnar storms back in & beats the fuck outta Taker setting up the inevitable.
Yeah, you're right. My favorite episode was the one where Batman crawled to the Joker's feet on his hands and knees, said "you're right", Joker squirted acid in his face, and said come along now as Batman followed him. GREAT episode!
ReplyDeleteHonestly it's a good question. Most of the high profile stories they've tried for the past three years have stank either because of HHH circle jerking his way into the picture or the outright incompetency that emerges when you're forced to re-write everything you do multiple times at the whims of a roided up old man who, I honestly think, doesn't like wrestling, just the fame and money it brought him.
ReplyDeleteI do watch though for the rare times a storyline flies under the radar enough not to be tinkered with. And for the times two guys or teams click in the ring and you end up with a match much better than the writing around it.
It just sucks to see people time and time again make chickensalad out of the shit they're given and the crowd responses are ignored at best (Cesaro and Bryan) or outright sabotaged at worse as some kind of lesson or message (Woo woo woo)
WWE booking circa 2013: Making me prefer wasting my time watching TNA instead of Raw.
ReplyDeleteDidn't watch at all in 2012, then I moved to a new city and my friend from back home who lives here/is my neighbor is still into it and we used to watch it together & likes to have peeps over on Mondays. So friendship
ReplyDeleteAs a Saints fan, I know for a fact there are a TON of backwoods yokels who have Twitter accounts. People you'd be surprised could even spell Twitter.
ReplyDeleteAlso I'll backtrack and rephrase it to main-level stories, I liked the Rhodes bro story from this year. Everything in the uppercard leaves a sour taste in my mouth
ReplyDeletePunk/Brock, punk/cena, kane/bryan tag team, the shield...
ReplyDeleteThis guy gets it.
ReplyDeleteSlight thread jack, although I think my idea could work for Bryan down the line. I was watching some of the Breaking Bad marathon and I though a Walter White like character transformation could work really well in wrestling. This would be a long term storyline though. Take a wrestler who is somewhat goofy and little by little we see him become more and more evil. Justifying it of course as he goes along. I wonder if you stuck Bryan in that role how far would he have to go to get boos?
ReplyDeleteBy that logic, Steve Austin would've been getting just as big a push in 1998 if he never won the title and constantly came up short in the big matches, because he was featured in the main story. Not all pushes are created equal, and Bryan's is all over the place.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a dud of an ending.
ReplyDeleteThis x 100!!! Anyone who thinks Bryan is being "buried" needs to take a step back and look at the way he's been protected since pre-SummerSlam. WWE/Vince/HHH/Authority/Whoever don't give guys they're burying a 30-minute main event slot on RAW during which they win TWO matches and then get beaten down by THREE heels.
ReplyDeleteRemember, RAW is a TV show. Good characters on good TV shows have ups, downs, conflicts, and resolutions. Not everything was wine and roses for Tony Soprano, but we loved him because he was interesting, we wanted to see what happened to him next, and how he handled it. I feel the same way about Bryan. I root for his character to succeed and I'm interested in how he handles the obstacles impeding his success. If he was the champion and defended it successfully every week/PPV, that'd be awfully boring.
I know we joke about "tune in next week and find out!!!", but that really is the point...
As for the ending of RAW, I won't say it was great or anything and I think there are better ways to use Bryan. But I don't see this as the horrible nerd filled rage like you guys. I think it's going somewhere that has Bryan turn on the Wyatt's in the next month or so. I also don't think this is the END for Bryan either. I'm just going to see how this all plays out before I get a rage boner for this angle.
ReplyDeleteThe main issue is that they're taking a distinctive, popular character and assimilating him into a cult that already has a spokesman.
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, this is fair. Without knowing where it leads to, a lot of the "Bryan's getting screwed" folks come off as whiners (myself included at times)....on the other hand, the track record isn't great for it to play out with a nuanced story of betrayal and redemption leading to Bryan standing tall or at the least somewhat redeemed. If this leads to some type of Kane/Bryan plan to out think Wyatts/HHH, great, but there's no reason to believe it'll get there based on past behavior by those in charge
ReplyDeleteBut why do you assume it's an assimilation? It's all speculation at this point, both positive and negative POVs. The bottom line is that angle got everyone talking. It worked. Now let's see if what they've got for next week works too.
ReplyDeleteI'll even go a little further off the rails with this: I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out this is all a giant rib/mock on Bryan for keeping the hair and beard out. "we'll find people even hairier than you and make you team with them, that'll teach ya".
ReplyDeleteWith that touch of paranoia aside, sure, there are still a lot of interesting ways this can go, maybe even great ways, just no reason to think it'll get there. And by putting Bryan there as a cowering wimp(to lull the Wyatts or not) doesn't install confidence it will.
Ive thought about the hair thing and am conflicted. One one hand, I absolutely think its something Vince and HHH look at and say "wtf is this, this guy doesnt look like a topl level layer at all."
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, Im assuming if Vince didnt like his look, hed make or Bryan would voluntarily change it.
I thought they were all about putting smiles on people's faces?
ReplyDeleteThe crowd can scowl if they want. The only ones that have to smile are people that lose matches.
ReplyDeleteYes, equate Stockholm Syndrome with waiting a few weeks before making judgement about a wrestling angle. that just began. That makes a lot of sense
ReplyDeleteThat was good.
ReplyDeleteHey are you doing a New Years Eve/ Day thread or something?
ReplyDeleteThread jack.
I agree about Bryan's push going all over the place but its not 1998 anymore. They are not booking that way anymore. They have TV and movies writers, not wrestling guys. The mindset here is if you are involved in the top angles, you are a main eventer, no matter what.
ReplyDeleteI could if people want that.
ReplyDeleteSteve Austin was a badass redneck that drank, beat people up, and never gave a damn what anybody did about it. He even got himself arrested several times just for the hell of it. However, even he had his challenges in 1998 that he couldn't beat(Kane in the First Blood Match, Taker/Kane in The Triple Threat, The Deadly Games Tournament, the 1999 Royal Rumble).
ReplyDeleteAlso, comparing Bryan to Austin is not a good one. In terms of drawing power, Austin is ahead of Bryan by leaps and bounds
ReplyDeleteTrue as that is, I just can't see Austin even pretending to join the Ministry. The bigger issue is that this one is at the end of Raw and into the next; the closer something is to the show's end, the more the fans believe it'll stick.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'd be much more confident there was more afoot if this ended the second hour instead of the third. Switch this with Lesnar/Henry and you get time for the announcers to talk about it, people to react to it, etc. Brock Lesnar's return is big enough to end the show as it is.
Bear in mind, I have no idea why this would make me feel better.
I'm not gonna bitch yet, because I'm not so sure this is an actual heel turn and not a "swerve" where Bryan turns on them next week or at the Rumble. If it turns out he really is turning heel, I think it's stupid because you took a guy getting the loudest face reactions in the business right now and turned him despite nobody wanting it. And you made him a heel subservient to another actual wrestling heel (not unlike Orton and HHH, but at least HHH is sometimes pretending he isn't a wrestler anymore and is just an authority figure). And because he's not tall, they'll probably make Bryan a chickenshit heel again who sucks at wrestling and can't beat anyone except via flukes or crazy amounts of cheating, like he was when he won the World Title up until the Punk feud started turning that around.
ReplyDeleteI'm a big fan of Bryan and a fan of the Wyatts, but I'm not a fan of making him Generic Chickenshit Heel #7822, like they do every single heel they have that isn't huge. If that's not what they're doing, then I'll at least see where it's going.
Have the "wait until it fully plays out" ever been right? This shit is written by morons and aimed at morons. Anyone who uses there brain can predict where there shit bag angles are going the second they book them and the wwe hasn't done a good swerve in years.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with this. COULD they do something good with this? Yeah. WILL they? All evidence points to "NO".
ReplyDeleteWas listening to Austin's podcast with one of the Tough Enough kids and they made this great point about wrestling not putting smiles on faces, that sometimes it should piss you off.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking only for myself here: I agree that people are overreacting, and I'm personally taking a wait and see approach. My issue on a personal level if this turns out to not be a swerve: I think they will still be pushing him, but rather than push him as they have been, they'll go back to pushing him as a chickenshit heel like they did back when he won the World Title. Again speaking only for myself...I hate chickenshit heels, and not in a "I want to watch this" way. I think when you have one or two in the company, they can be a lot of fun to watch; when most of the company is made up on chickenshit heels (and they have been getting better lately, but we're not far removed from pretty much every single heel cowering against midcarders and needing to cheat like crazy to beat random midcard faces...remember WHY people got so into heel Mark Henry when he beat Orton for the title?), it sucks. If this is a swerve, great. If it's a legit heel turn but they're still going to book Bryan as a heel who can legit make you tap at any time and kick your ass (ala Angle), great. If they're going to push him as a chickenshit heel who can't beat anyone without cheating or fluke wins, then not only do I not really want to see that, but I don't expect his push to continue because those types of guys rarely stay at that level for extended periods of time. It's difficult to stay at a top level when you can't even beat random midcarders cleanly. I'm taking a wait and see approach, but THAT is my concern, not the whole "oh, he's being buried completely" thing. That's simply not true.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't get upset about people who keep failing a Pavlov test and then when they're proven wrong they just kinda walk away and forget they ever were involved in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAlways thought they should have done this with Zack Ryder. And while we are on the subject, why not throw some damn money at some GOOD writers. From what I read, WWE likes to get soap opera writers, sitcom writers, and comedians. Find an up and coming Vince Gilligan who has a soft spot for wrestling and see what he can do.
ReplyDeleteSo then he will fail?
ReplyDeleteWay this could turn out good:
ReplyDeleteBryan becomes a Wyatt. Royal Rumble time and the Wyatt's eliminate everyone until it is Bray, Bryan, Harper and Rowen left. The two goons eliminate themselves so Bray can win, and Bryan is about to, but the fans start chanting "NO!" like crazy. Bryan dumps Bray and then gets a shot at Brock who wins the belt at EC. Then you have the ultimate underdog vs the beast incarnate.
What makes no sense is that those who go to arenas are going to be more pissed off than us lot on here, and as they're the ones who might think "I'm not interested in buying a ticket to see Bryan as part of a heel group", it's costing the company money. By all accounts Bryan is used as a major face in many house shows, who is he going to wrestle there that a) makes sense and b) people want to see him against? The storyline might be interesting, and it better be because the average fan isn't thinking about that now; they're just looking at Bryan with some zany weird guys who don't do much. Well, apart from being zany and weird.
ReplyDelete