http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10158206/why-randy-orton-now-champion-need
I'm sure this will engender some interesting discussion, if it hasn't already in a threadjack somewhere. Personally, I think he's 100 percent correct. I've admittedly never been as down on Orton as some of you- never a big fan, either- but he's killing it in this role. I wrote shortly after his heel turn that he was the perfect avatar for the Authority in that storyline, but it's pretty obvious he's a lot more than that now.
I'm sure this will engender some interesting discussion, if it hasn't already in a threadjack somewhere. Personally, I think he's 100 percent correct. I've admittedly never been as down on Orton as some of you- never a big fan, either- but he's killing it in this role. I wrote shortly after his heel turn that he was the perfect avatar for the Authority in that storyline, but it's pretty obvious he's a lot more than that now.
I wish the current Randy Orton was the one that DDT'd Stephanie. Instead this version is one that gets put in his place by her on nearly every Raw.
ReplyDeleteI like Orton OK enough to not completely hate his position in the company, but that's a bit too much for me to swallow. His character traits of being so awesome is really a one-dimensional character that had the shelf life of about 2-years back in the 80's. He's presently been working the same formula for roughly 8 years. Yes, a face run here and there, a PG tone to prevent murderous punts to the head, but it's the same thing every time. He's good at what he does, but that's it. He's not a guy I go "Wow, I need to buy this PPV to watch him slap the canvas setting up an RKO." He's a guy who happens to have good, unremarkable matches every show.
ReplyDeleteOrtons been on the best run of his career since summerslam. People talk about hhh and Daniel Bryan but hhh is also really hogging up ortons spotlight
ReplyDeleteEverything Shoemaker said about Orton was all well and good, but the problem isn't his performance specifically— it's the context he's in. Orton has been portrayed as a total puppet of HHH and Stephanie since the moment he turned, and his character does nothing to drive anything forward. Triple H and Stephanie are the champions, not Orton, so watching Orton speak or wrestle is always pointless. Every feud he's been in since the turn (vs Bryan, Big Show, Cena) the pay-off everyone has wanted has been THAT GUY vs HHH, not vs Orton.
ReplyDeleteAnd this would maybe make sense if the end game was Orton turning face against HHH, but it's not because A) He just turned heel B) Orton's a terrible face and teh fans aren't clamoring for it.
It's basically Orton goes out every week, says some stuff, Triple H and Stephanie put him down, the fans kinda cheer or kinda boo HHH and Stephanie when they make fun of Orton, and then people chant boring at Orton.
That's a terrible character, no matter how well Randy Orton the performer flexes at guys in the second row.
one thing mentioned that's getting underestimated by many people is how "crisp" Orton is in the ring.
ReplyDeleteSaid this before but Orton has been so maligned as "boring" the past few years he's become underrated. He throws up 3.5 star matches in his sleep, has good ring psychology, has a nice little character niche with the apex predator thing, and is decent on the mic (he's not Austin or Rock but he's passable as a main eventer).
ReplyDeleteIt's a well written article, but I can't get past the fact that Orton strikes me as bored about 70% of the time that he's on my screen, and that number is closer to 95% if promos are involved.
ReplyDeleteCan he go in the ring? Sure. We've seen it, particularly last Monday, and when it happens, I will enjoy every moment. I'm just not a fan of the guy as a face or heel, and at one point, I was. What's 'the difference? Why the change? I'm not entirely sure. I'm also not entirely sure why I instantly dug Daniel Bryan the first time I saw him work, but I did. Same with Jake Roberts, especially after seeing my first DDT, and his promo work just iced the cake. I always pretty much dug Mick as well.
I suppose if I was pressed, I'd say that at some point, I started to get the feeling that the man just doesn't really enjoy his work. Clearly, I could be wrong. But, is there any question that Bryan, Punk and Foley all loved what they did? Same with Jake, even if his own demons may have contributed greatly to what made his character great.
Is this my only criteria for enjoying a wrestler? Of course not. I'm now a Cena mark because it just became to hard to dislike the guy. He's too fucking good at what he does, especially when he's passionate.
Ultimately, we can't always quantify our tastes. I don't hate Orton, butI really dislike the way this angle has been done...largely because Trips seems to refuse to make anyone else look good, with the exception of taking Show's KO punch. But, since he took over creative, we've had two solid Raws. So...I guess I'll just see how it plays...out....
Fuck.
The biggest problem with Orton as champion is that he's just not that over, and, really, he never has been. Sure, he's been one of the company's "chosen ones" for ten years now, and has had a few decent runs (early 2009, specifically), but he was always a LOOONG way behind Cena, and relatively far behind Batista, as well. Even now, he's definitely behind Punk and Bryan, and over the last few years has been behind even Sheamus. Even over the last few months, Big Show has seemed like a much bigger star.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's not just one hater's opinion. How often has the guy gotten "boring" or other derogatory chants during his matches? The guy drew boos - as a face - when wrestling Ziggler. The fans pop for his music and his finisher, and THAT'S IT.
He's just never been that popular. Two good years out of, like, ten is not that good.
Is it wrong that I now want Sandow to feud with them because he's offended by their repeated spelling errors?
ReplyDeleteThen Brooke wouldn't have a career in wrestling! Oh wait...
ReplyDeleteRusso and Ferrara always got a kick outta him. He would have received the voiceover gimmick in WWF and found a huge mainstream audience in 98-99.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't think that article brought anything new to the debate... everyone KNOWS he is extremely attractive (from an aesthetic point of view), has the 'look' WWE aspire for and thus he gets preferential treatment, hell wasn't that the whole concept of the DB/Orton Authority feud based around this issue? He's in a position of power based on how he looks and natural ability rather than a concerted effort to stand out? I mean didn't Bryan say "Isn't he so pretty!". Just because he is naturally talented doesn't mean I actually care about him especially as the 'face' of the company, if the pay off of the storyline was for Daniel Bryan too beat Orton proving that it takes more than looks to get to the top/stay at the top then I'd of enjoyed it, but the fact that WWE seemed determined to derail DB at almost every chance they get despite the crowd reactions. This just makes me hate the whole glass ceiling aspect of the company even more, as it is completely illogical.
ReplyDeleteIf Orton quit tomorrow I wouldn't miss him, I'm sure others would but I believe there are many other people who could fit into his role and slot in nicely to not effect profits/future story-lines etc. It wouldn't be like Cena leaving whereby even his haters realise how much money he generates, and how vital he is to elevating others to his level.
For me he is now a placeholder until Wrestlemania when hopefully he loses to Punk or DB (wishful thinking?) The storylines surrounding who faces him at Wrestlemania are more likely to draw interest than anything Orton does between now and April.
Yup. He's a good writer but something about him has never clicked with me. He does come off like a wwe shill at times. His best articles was that shoot series he did.
ReplyDeleteI hate to be that guy, but we're going to have to agree to disagree here; Orton isn't killing anything right now, sans some average - good matches (depending on the opponent) over the last few months. His character motivation is the drizzling shits, one minute subservient to the authority as their avatar / bitch, the next as an independent thinker without the ability to breakout and be the superduper badass he tried to play during his run with Legacy. And it's not as if Orton is a magic ratings elixir; numbers have remained constant throughout his time as champion. To say that Bryan or Big Show are to blame for the falloff is a bit ridiculous considering JOHN CENA hasn't pushed the needle higher since their program began. Eventually, you have to start looking at the common denominator here: Orton. He's a victim of bad booking as much as Bryan was.
ReplyDeleteSorry, you're right, you're hilarious! :D
ReplyDeleteI've always enjoyed his work, to be honest; this is really the first article I remember disagreeing with wholeheartedly. To each their own, I guess.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very well written article... but has Orton REALLY come that far in six months? He seems pretty much like the same guy he's been since the turn. I've never found Orton boring and enjoy almost every one of his matches... it's just hard to break into that Cena level. Him being the only world champ does put him on a whole new level though... and it will to anyone who carries that belt (those belts).
ReplyDeleteBefore if someone lost a title match in a feud, they'd just go after the other title... with no real sense of "being shunted down the card." Now with only one title again, the chances to become world champion have lessened, thus making it more important.
Isn't in Cara the 2013 version of Max Moon by now?
ReplyDeleteThere's certainly a good deal of validity to these points, but I'd assign that blame to the booking, not to Orton's performance. HHH/Stephanie have made him a neutered character, but there's been enough resistance from Orton to keep it relatively fresh. I have no idea where the Authority/Orton arc is going, but I do find Orton more compelling than he's been in a number of years.
ReplyDeleteI think Shoemaker's overriding point is how easy it's become to resent Orton, both as a mark and as a "smart" fan, and that's the sign of a quality character. I agree with him completely. As much as I hate how they've treated the character, the character itself has more depth than before. Drawing from the legitimate feelings of both Orton (entitled) and the fans (resentful) is pretty damned smart.
Just a few comments from an Orton apologist...
ReplyDelete-How differently would we feel about this guy if he debuted in late 2008 and had the run he has been on since then? It feels like the residual stink from his first push/title reign to the Age of Orton stuff mars the way we define him to this day. I couldn't stand the guy for nearly the first 7 years of his career. But I'd be an idiot to say that runs in 2009, 2011, and even 2013 are not among the upper tier of career years for ANY wrestler.
-I disagree with the Masked Man on how there's been this great change in Orton. He has been a bit more motivated with his promos in the last month, but that's about it. I honestly feel sorry for him with the way he's been castrated time and time again by HHH/Steph over the last four months.
-I disagree with those who say he isn't over or has no passion for wrestling. You could listen to the cheers/boos over the last five years or look at the way he carried Smackdown, but he was over--to the point that when has was pandering earlier this year (in what looked like to be foreshadowing of a heel turn), the fans ate it up. As far as passion goes... he's gone from mediocre to a pro's pro over the course of his career. Remember when chinlocks were half his offense? Now, he's one of the smoothest, safest guys. He's also someone who cares about things enough where he has to go through a lengthy "prehab" routine just to get into ring because of his bum shoulder.
I'm not so certain there's a big difference in the demeanor of Punk and Orton. Both are moody jerks (many reports indicate it, but I am generalizing just a bit) who spend more time on their buses than the locker room before and after show. They both seem to have some demons and can be surly, but Orton doesn't complain openly about the direction of his character/company like Mr. Punk. They're both capable of main eventing any card against anyone and pulling out a decent match. So... why do we love one so much and hate the other so much? 1. The stigma of 2003-2009. 2. Punk has a livelier and more relatable persona.
I don't get "WWE shill" at all, because he's criticized them plenty, even recently.
ReplyDeleteI don't fundamentally disagree with anything in this article, but Orton has not been BOOKED the way he is being presented in that article. Sure, I'm all-in with the "he plays an effective jerk because he IS a jerk" thing. I think the scumbag sense of entitlement should be his whole character. Unfortunately, he's been presented on-screen as a puppet of HHH & Stephanie. On the air, he's just the guy who's carrying the belts for as long as HHH allows it. I feel like they should have gone over-the-top with the "Orton as face of WWE" stuff this summer and fall. Make him seem like the most important thing in the world. If he was going to be the condescending jock who can back it up in the ring, that's perfect. But every bit of this current heel run has had him playing second fiddle to HHH rather than being the "WWE prototype champion" because of his looks, lineage, and willingness to play ball with corporate. They should have made him the focal point, at least for a while, just to make him the anti-Bryan/Punk. That's Orton's best role anyway. Instead, they made him just another ratfuck heel, rather than the Flair/HHH in their prime type guys who cheated like hell and thought they were the best...but could back it up on their own
ReplyDeletePersonally, one masked lucha type turd is one too many.
ReplyDeleteHe's everything a heel that should be dethroned needs to be. He's an asshole, but also an over-privileged lackey. He just has to make the guy who's finally gonna beat him look good and that's what's great about Randy Orton 2013.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem I have with Orton, and the reason why I don't think he's had the impact on the WWE that Cena, Punk or Bryan have, or that Batista had, is that he looks like a sociopath.
ReplyDeleteCena and Bryan have this happy-go-lucky thing going for them that people like; Punk may look like a dick, but I don't the feeling he's going to kill my pets if I look at him funny. I get that vibe off of Orton. Even when he's a face, I can't understand the appeal.
I'm not sure about "shill," but closer to "mark." He investigates and analyzes from a smark perspective, but the hypotheses he has and employs come from a very mark perspective. That's okay, I suppose, but I do find myself disagreeing with him a lot. His podcast around Survivor Series where he was basically stating how good or cool everything was (when it may have been the company's nadir this year) had me scrambling for the stop button.
ReplyDeleteYeah, my comment was sarcasm that I don't think translated very well.
ReplyDeleteI guess not.
ReplyDeleteWho knows, I don't think either òf them are officially under contract yet. Thought this was their try out.
ReplyDeletePitbulls does suck, but what was wrong with the American Wolves?
ReplyDeleteBuddy Murphy, one of the lumber jacks from the main event, is an Australian wrestler (Matt Silva). On a side note, he had his jaw broken during on of these tapings
ReplyDeleteNo mention of Davey Richards nearly getting dropped on his head and crippled during the match? That looked scary as shit.
ReplyDeleteYes, he played Tag on Friends, and was on CSI: NY
ReplyDeleteIt seemed like it was Davey's fault but I could be wrong. Maybe it was just nerves?
ReplyDeleteFirst thing I thought of when you mentioned Terriers:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/j5bIW882OR8
it'd be a good theme song.
ReplyDeletemaybe they gave him Dynamite's name as a backhanded warning.
ReplyDelete