Be mindful that some of us on Sky Sports will get a different order to the program than those on SyFy. Josh Matthews and JBL on commentary, so at least that's a change.
Last week we noticed in the live thread that certain segments appeared in different places depending on the broadcast people were watching. For example, for some people Bray Wyatt's promo was in the middle of the first hour, while for others it was before the main event in hour two.
Holy shit, a top 25 where everything is on one page. Yes, this is how the internet should work.
Anyway, #1 and 2 baffle me, but fuck it, if those are the matches the author liked the best then so be it. I mentioned yesterday that while Punk/Cena and Punk/Taker were better matches than the Michael Elign/Roddy Strong 2/3 falls match, I still voted for Elgin/Strong, just because I liked it the most. Yes, I'm an Elgin mark and an ROH guy, but to me "MOTY" means "match your most likely you'll watch again", and Elgin/Strong wins that hands down. Though I will say that the fact that I wasn't sure about the outcome of that match (even though I saw the results a week beforehand) helped too. I knew Elgin was winning, but I KNEW Cena and Taker were winning.
Hi, I just want to state I made this list by rewatching everything. On to Benoit-Angle. I missed it live at the time thanks to university and I can see how people in the moment would be excited by that match, however on rewatch it is a Michael Bay movie all flash and no substance. It has token matwork and then half the match is German suplexes. To be it was all go-go-go at the expense of story.
I think I defended the mini match in my article and I would love to hear an actual criticism of that match outside of their height.
Also, unless Bryan is #2, he's not gonna win. Because any time a smaller guy or underdog wins, they always have him start out to build up more sympathy for him to root for. Shawn, Benoit, Mysterio...always the same. They don't need it, but that's just one of the many, many, MANY tropes that are stuck in Vince's mind.
The problem I have with Cena fighting the Wyatts is that Cena is the company's biggest draw and he's fighting midcarders on the biggest show of the year/decade. Someone on the-w.com made the perfect comparison that Cena facing the Wyatts was akin to Austin facing Hall at WM18.
There's a very odd contrast between the WWE's chosen demographic and their new attitude towards characters ("there are no faces and heels anymore"). You can't market and target your show towards children, which they do to a large degree, whilst using complex storytelling derived from shows like Breaking Bad and The Sopranos. Kids won't pick up on the subtleties and, to be frank, the writers and creative leaders aren't David Chase or Vince Gilligan and know next to nothing about how to make complex characters work.
I'm convinced the HHH & Steph characters aren't faces, they're meant to come across as villains who are TRYING to look like faces for the corporate image. That's a neat idea but it just isn't working.
Shoulda built up that Shield/Wyatt's showdown more. They could have an epic 6-man streetfight brawl that the crowd would go nuts for. And Vince himself said there's no more faces or heels, so...
There absolutely was a story to Benoit v. Angle. You said it's all flash and no substance, yet you have Vince McMahon v. Ric Flair, Dudley Boyz v .Hardy Boyz and Rock v. Mankind on there.
Uhm, what? Vader should have definitely beaten HBK in '96. HBK wasn't drawing as champion because he didn't want anyone being booked too strongly and stealing his heat, but Vader beating him and HBK chasing the title would have drew, imo.
Taker - I want Bryan Vince - Nope you've got HHH. Imagine that "Quatro in a lifetime!" Taker - Vince - What are you doing? What is that? Taker - This saved your WM 14 main event. Vince - Well I'm the damn boss damn it!! "Quatro in a lifetime" is a once in a lifetime thing Mark!! Taker - Awwww come on Vince pleeeeaaase?
Well, makes sense. In kayfabe terms it's perfect storytelling, with a guy starting at the very bottom and working hard to get to the very top whilst proving all his detractors wrong. Wouldn't be much of a story, if Bryan draws a later number, easily wins the Rumble and wins every single match easily before winning the title. It'd go everything against his character.
I think the problem is that show like Breaking Bad have awesome scripts with interesting characters, memorable stories and great dialogue. on the other hand, the WWE almost has neither.
Ahhh yes, I forget how WWF had a magic 8-ball at the time to inform them that Austin was going to bail so had to devalue him as much as possible before that could happen.
Have Orton and Cena had even a GOOD match, let alone an awesome one? Sometimes two guys just have bad chemistry together, no matter how many times you match them up.
There was actually something posted here a while back from a news group in late 97. Those in the discussion all shared the sentiment that Austin was stale and going nowhere.
Seriously, what a perfect place to elevate Reigns according to their masterplan. You know the Shield would be treated like massive babyfaces by the crowd.
Really dig the Place to be Pods and the reviews of individual PPVs. Both guys are really knowledgeable too which helps. I'm just afraid once they get past Wrestlemania 19 I'm going to stop caring.
There's nothing wrong with this thinking, Like yeah, if Great Khali v. Fandango on Raw is your MOTY, them you are an idiot. But if a match just clicks for you when watching it, all the power to you.
Bryan did a newspaper interview today basically saying how he's not sure if he's in the Rumble because "Triple H and the Authority don't want him anywhere near it". If that doesn't smell like a swerve to anyone else, I don't know what to tell you. I think WWE is being purposefully vague about Bryan's status in order to blow the roof of the place...all the red herrings about a Batista victory are in place, he is the painfully obvious favorite. Mark my words....Bryan is winning the Rumble. I don't post often but when I do, I make it count...he's winning.
It's Benoit and Angle giving it their all, with each one trying to show who the better man is, which they had been feuding over since Summerslam.
Both men go all out to prove it, as evidenced by the flipover German, Benoit's across the ring headbutt. They busts out moves and countermoves throughout the match as it turns into 20 minutes of one-upmanship.
Angle has Benoit beat but Benoit refuses to give in, so Angle immediately busts out another version of the ankle lock, the heel hook and the crowd instantly knows what that means, even if it's the first time it's been hooked in, Benoit knows he's fucked and realises he has to tap out.
I've seen Vince v. Flair a million times. Vince beats on Flair for a bit, Flair comes back, they hit each other a bit, Flair does his spots and then locks in the Figure Four.
Hardyz v. Dudleyz is a spotfest. A fun spotfest that I love to watch, but come on.
Rock v. Mankind is an uncomfortable snuff film at this point.
The mini-match at best is a sub-8 min match designed to fill time on a show and only exposes how thin the WWE roster at the time, while also showing how Vince continued to not get why the cruiserweight division was so successful. At worst it's your usual lucha midget spotfest that's been to death.
You think the midget match is better than the 1990 Royal Rumble, Angle v. Benoit, the 04 Rumble, the 05 Rumble, Edge v. HBK, Edge v. Hardy, Edge v. Ziggler? A lot of Edge
Hard to give it the #1 slot... but by January of that year, I was BEGGING for the Umaga/Cena program. Their match at NYR that year is one of my favorite shitkickings ever. I knew the matches would be good... but I never thought they would be THAT good.
I agree with whoever the blogger a few days ago was that mentioned Batista's upcoming movie effecting him going heel. I think they'll ride the "badass babyface that dresses like today's youth" til at least the summertime
They did have killer match after WM28, 2 out of 3 falls I believe, but now is just not the time. Save that shit for after Bryan gets the belt back whenever that is and have Sheamus as a monster-of-the-week ppv opponent (ie. Cena/Henry MITB 2013)
If Cena/Bryan vs the Wyatts happens at WM, it'll be the biggest misuse of talent I can remember. They can do whatever the fuck thet want but it's a dumb idea
They wanted Austin to job to Coachman, it'd be like going up to Cena and asking him to job to Josh Matthews. And then they intended to feed him to Brock with no build and no hype.
Call it how you want, that's bullshit and I don't blame Austin for what he did at all. You're where you are now because of him.
Be mindful that some of us on Sky Sports will get a different order to the program than those on SyFy. Josh Matthews and JBL on commentary, so at least that's a change.
ReplyDeleteBig Show-Rey being pulled out of mothballs. HAHA, "The Border Hopping Bullies."
ReplyDeleteIs that a Sky Sports edit job? Seems weird WWE would take the time to edit multiple versions
ReplyDeleteLast week we noticed in the live thread that certain segments appeared in different places depending on the broadcast people were watching. For example, for some people Bray Wyatt's promo was in the middle of the first hour, while for others it was before the main event in hour two.
ReplyDeleteBatista is skinny jeans
ReplyDeleteCM Punk is skinny fat
Holy shit, a top 25 where everything is on one page. Yes, this is how the internet should work.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, #1 and 2 baffle me, but fuck it, if those are the matches the author liked the best then so be it. I mentioned yesterday that while Punk/Cena and Punk/Taker were better matches than the Michael Elign/Roddy Strong 2/3 falls match, I still voted for Elgin/Strong, just because I liked it the most. Yes, I'm an Elgin mark and an ROH guy, but to me "MOTY" means "match your most likely you'll watch again", and Elgin/Strong wins that hands down. Though I will say that the fact that I wasn't sure about the outcome of that match (even though I saw the results a week beforehand) helped too. I knew Elgin was winning, but I KNEW Cena and Taker were winning.
That is (sighhhh) how I see it playing out too.
ReplyDeleteHi, I just want to state I made this list by rewatching everything. On to Benoit-Angle. I missed it live at the time thanks to university and I can see how people in the moment would be excited by that match, however on rewatch it is a Michael Bay movie all flash and no substance. It has token matwork and then half the match is German suplexes. To be it was all go-go-go at the expense of story.
ReplyDeleteI think I defended the mini match in my article and I would love to hear an actual criticism of that match outside of their height.
Also, unless Bryan is #2, he's not gonna win. Because any time a smaller guy or underdog wins, they always have him start out to build up more sympathy for him to root for. Shawn, Benoit, Mysterio...always the same. They don't need it, but that's just one of the many, many, MANY tropes that are stuck in Vince's mind.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with Cena fighting the Wyatts is that Cena is the company's biggest draw and he's fighting midcarders on the biggest show of the year/decade. Someone on the-w.com made the perfect comparison that Cena facing the Wyatts was akin to Austin facing Hall at WM18.
ReplyDeleteThere's a very odd contrast between the WWE's chosen demographic and their new attitude towards characters ("there are no faces and heels anymore"). You can't market and target your show towards children, which they do to a large degree, whilst using complex storytelling derived from shows like Breaking Bad and The Sopranos. Kids won't pick up on the subtleties and, to be frank, the writers and creative leaders aren't David Chase or Vince Gilligan and know next to nothing about how to make complex characters work.
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced the HHH & Steph characters aren't faces, they're meant to come across as villains who are TRYING to look like faces for the corporate image. That's a neat idea but it just isn't working.
Does that mean Cena will leave for an extended period when he's asked to job to Roman Reigns in the lead-up to King of the Ring?
ReplyDeleteShoulda built up that Shield/Wyatt's showdown more. They could have an epic 6-man streetfight brawl that the crowd would go nuts for. And Vince himself said there's no more faces or heels, so...
ReplyDeleteNo, it was push-ups. Those orange sherbet things in the cardboard tubes.
ReplyDeletehey, remember that big rub eugene and hassan got from hogan?
ReplyDeleteYou don't. I am just laughing at you being an attempting to be an internet tough guy
ReplyDeleteYou forgot about the news coming out afterwards that Cena was an overprotective jerk that abused Nikki.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that good?
ReplyDeleteWhere is the 2004 Royal Rumble?
ReplyDeleteThere absolutely was a story to Benoit v. Angle. You said it's all flash and no substance, yet you have Vince McMahon v. Ric Flair, Dudley Boyz v .Hardy Boyz and Rock v. Mankind on there.
ReplyDeleteThat's true. Hogan's not good at giving rubs, only stealing the spotlight.
ReplyDeleteUhm, what? Vader should have definitely beaten HBK in '96. HBK wasn't drawing as champion because he didn't want anyone being booked too strongly and stealing his heat, but Vader beating him and HBK chasing the title would have drew, imo.
ReplyDeleteAngle vs. Triple H from 2001 is criminally underrated.
ReplyDeleteno you wouldn't.
ReplyDeleteTaker - I want Bryan
ReplyDeleteVince - Nope you've got HHH. Imagine that "Quatro in a lifetime!"
Taker -
Vince - What are you doing? What is that?
Taker - This saved your WM 14 main event.
Vince - Well I'm the damn boss damn it!! "Quatro in a lifetime" is a once in a lifetime thing Mark!!
Taker - Awwww come on Vince pleeeeaaase?
Well, makes sense. In kayfabe terms it's perfect storytelling, with a guy starting at the very bottom and working hard to get to the very top whilst proving all his detractors wrong. Wouldn't be much of a story, if Bryan draws a later number, easily wins the Rumble and wins every single match easily before winning the title. It'd go everything against his character.
ReplyDeleteAustin was gone from the company three months later....
ReplyDeleteThey really blew it there.
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is that show like Breaking Bad have awesome scripts with interesting characters, memorable stories and great dialogue. on the other hand, the WWE almost has neither.
ReplyDeleteI'm okay with Brock/Punk and HHH/Bryan (and obviously Cena/UT or GTFO).
ReplyDeleteYeah, Scott seems to be off his meds or starting taking drugs to think the Wyatts would be credible as WM main eventers.
ReplyDeleteBut Batista has more muscles.
ReplyDeleteAhhh yes, I forget how WWF had a magic 8-ball at the time to inform them that Austin was going to bail so had to devalue him as much as possible before that could happen.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you 100%. I actually thought the cage match from Raw was the best encounter between the 2 however.
ReplyDeleteHave Orton and Cena had even a GOOD match, let alone an awesome one? Sometimes two guys just have bad chemistry together, no matter how many times you match them up.
ReplyDeleteLesnar could throw Show into the fourth row, but **** is probably out of reach for this pairing.
ReplyDeleteBut, he has muscles.
ReplyDeleteThe belly button tattoo. Seriously what the fuck was he thinking?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the story? Whatever you can do, I can do another German suplex? Ok, it's a story, just not one I want to watch.
ReplyDeleteMcMahon and Flair had a story, as did those others. When was the last time you re-watched those?
to clarify, I wasn't even talking about this blog in particular but agreeing with what Steve Stennick wrote.
ReplyDelete"I want to like the guy but his fan base is annoying" is a pretty goddamn stupid reason to not like a guy.
ReplyDeleteThat's about all you would have for the rest of 96, but I agree it would have been okay.
ReplyDeleteBaby faces were really bad in 96 after Mania.After Shawn, the next guy is Ahmed Johnson and then....Marc Mero?
That list is a mess. But Ron Garvin and Greg Valentine is an awesome match.
ReplyDeleteThere was actually something posted here a while back from a news group in late 97. Those in the discussion all shared the sentiment that Austin was stale and going nowhere.
ReplyDeleteLol.
I see about 10 or 11 matches that go over #1 easily.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Jericho kept getting bested by Benoit and changed his own style to try and find a way to win.
ReplyDeletePlus Walls on the ladder.
It is terrible.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, what a perfect place to elevate Reigns according to their masterplan. You know the Shield would be treated like massive babyfaces by the crowd.
ReplyDeleteReally dig the Place to be Pods and the reviews of individual PPVs. Both guys are really knowledgeable too which helps. I'm just afraid once they get past Wrestlemania 19 I'm going to stop caring.
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with this thinking, Like yeah, if Great Khali v. Fandango on Raw is your MOTY, them you are an idiot. But if a match just clicks for you when watching it, all the power to you.
ReplyDeleteBryan did a newspaper interview today basically saying how he's not sure if he's in the Rumble because "Triple H and the Authority don't want him anywhere near it". If that doesn't smell like a swerve to anyone else, I don't know what to tell you. I think WWE is being purposefully vague about Bryan's status in order to blow the roof of the place...all the red herrings about a Batista victory are in place, he is the painfully obvious favorite. Mark my words....Bryan is winning the Rumble. I don't post often but when I do, I make it count...he's winning.
ReplyDeleteSid was getting huge main event pops in 1996, but then his heat kind of died when he became champion.
ReplyDeleteIt's Benoit and Angle giving it their all, with each one trying to show who the better man is, which they had been feuding over since Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteBoth men go all out to prove it, as evidenced by the flipover German, Benoit's across the ring headbutt. They busts out moves and countermoves throughout the match as it turns into 20 minutes of one-upmanship.
Angle has Benoit beat but Benoit refuses to give in, so Angle immediately busts out another version of the ankle lock, the heel hook and the crowd instantly knows what that means, even if it's the first time it's been hooked in, Benoit knows he's fucked and realises he has to tap out.
I've seen Vince v. Flair a million times. Vince beats on Flair for a bit, Flair comes back, they hit each other a bit, Flair does his spots and then locks in the Figure Four.
ReplyDeleteHardyz v. Dudleyz is a spotfest. A fun spotfest that I love to watch, but come on.
Rock v. Mankind is an uncomfortable snuff film at this point.
He deserves better than Sheamus.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't like Sheamus whether he be a heel or face. If they need him to face a heel asskicker, I'd rather them have turn Mark Henry.
Ah I forgot Sid.
ReplyDeleteWhat if he goes over in 17.9 Seconds?
ReplyDeleteThe mini-match at best is a sub-8 min match designed to fill time on a show and only exposes how thin the WWE roster at the time, while also showing how Vince continued to not get why the cruiserweight division was so successful. At worst it's your usual lucha midget spotfest that's been to death.
ReplyDeleteYou think the midget match is better than the 1990 Royal Rumble, Angle v. Benoit, the 04 Rumble, the 05 Rumble, Edge v. HBK, Edge v. Hardy, Edge v. Ziggler? A lot of Edge
Yeah! Suck it, graham!
ReplyDeleteAgreed, I always thought it was very overrated.
ReplyDeleteSmark: I don't like a man with too many muscles
ReplyDeleteVince: Well, I didn't push him for you
/Obscure RHPS reference
Dat chairshot doe.
ReplyDeleteI always thought it was properly rated. This is the first time I've ever seen people say it was good.
ReplyDeleteHard to give it the #1 slot... but by January of that year, I was BEGGING for the Umaga/Cena program. Their match at NYR that year is one of my favorite shitkickings ever. I knew the matches would be good... but I never thought they would be THAT good.
ReplyDeleteHello, and welcome to the blog. I disagree wholeheartedly.
ReplyDeleteI agree with whoever the blogger a few days ago was that mentioned Batista's upcoming movie effecting him going heel. I think they'll ride the "badass babyface that dresses like today's youth" til at least the summertime
ReplyDeleteThey did have killer match after WM28, 2 out of 3 falls I believe, but now is just not the time. Save that shit for after Bryan gets the belt back whenever that is and have Sheamus as a monster-of-the-week ppv opponent (ie. Cena/Henry MITB 2013)
ReplyDeleteDownvoted for untruth
ReplyDeleteHey, he gave Bubba's wife a good rub.
ReplyDeleteShawn also won at a later number in 1996, and Bret came in at 27 in 1994 on a bad knee.
ReplyDeleteSo was I. I was just describing how even I fell into the trap and acted like a "fucking wanker", as they say across the pond.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how one comes up with Cena/Bryan w/Hogan vs. Wyatt Family w/ Piper, but holy shit, is that a dumb prediction.
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to dislike a guy to think that he's being treated fine.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena/Bryan vs the Wyatts happens at WM, it'll be the biggest misuse of talent I can remember. They can do whatever the fuck thet want but it's a dumb idea
ReplyDeleteThey wanted Austin to job to Coachman, it'd be like going up to Cena and asking him to job to Josh Matthews. And then they intended to feed him to Brock with no build and no hype.
ReplyDeleteCall it how you want, that's bullshit and I don't blame Austin for what he did at all. You're where you are now because of him.
Um, what? 5 million people tuned in for Batista. Bryan ain't putting up numbers like that. lol
ReplyDelete1995 was the same except there weren't any top heels.
ReplyDeleteHBK and Sid.
ReplyDeleteIs this the BOD's newest resident troll? Welcome...
ReplyDelete