Flyers-Rangers, about to add Hawks-Blues to the rotation here.
I was just thinking... I do NOT like the NHL's regular season OT system. I never had a problem with ties in the old days... play one 10-minute OT 4-on-4, and if no one scores, then fuck it. The shootout can go back to the scrap pile, leave that shit for soccer.
I always just hated his stupid fucking catchphrases. Never liked Austin for the same reason, though his catchphrases weren't stupid, they were badass. But still, to me it just feels like the same promo over and over again. And Rock SUCKED on the stick in his last go-around.
The look on his face when he realized what he just said is fucking priceless, Sherri's reaction is pretty funny too. Did he ever get in trouble for that? I recall that someone asked Hogan about and he just laughed and said that he never even noticed until someone else brought it up, and could care less.
I think Cena is a good talker. I don't think he's the 12th best in the history of the business and there's a lot of guys ranked lower I'd easily put ahead of him.
Scott Steiner?! Bwahahaha... yeah right. And why include Steph, Vince, and Bobby but not JR? Does the talker have to step between the ropes and take a bump to qualify? Yeah, I'm nitpicky, but that's the fun of these things. (Some names that I'd have put on the list: Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie, King Kong Bundy, Jimmy Hart, Honky Tonk Man, Brother Love, Curt Hennig, Kevin Nash, Theodore Long, Bad News Barrett, and Hornswoggle.)
I liked Sherri, but she really was an mediocre promo.
This might have been the time to be a bit sexist and admit that there haven't been a lot of great woman talkers. Sunny is the closest I can think of, and I'm not sure she breaks the top 50.
"I've been in the danger zone — yeah! — I've been in the danger zone, east of the Pacific Ocean, west of London England, south of Mars, and north of Hell! Yeah!"
I disagree on Cena being a good talker. He's always so wooden and sounds like he's reciting remembered lines. And when he tries emotion, it's so forced. Otherwise, he's great.
Definitely subjective and I could easily pick nits, but I'll go positive instead. Like AA getting that high up on a list. Could easily see his subdued intensity getting passed over i these type lists
The important things to remember with these lists is that they are all subjective and that WWE has to get some current wrestlers on the list. Once you accept those two facts it isn't too bad
Agreed on both counts. Rock at his peak was a great heel promo -- but in general I'd say he's more charisma and funny with lots of catchphrases hung on it. He's good at playing intensity too, but it definitely felt VERY forced this last time around.
I mean, I guess that is a talent too -- the ability to be hilarious like that, but it's a singular one. Flair was a much better promo at his peak to me, because he could hit every side of the emotional compass -- he could be cool or funny as a great heel and sell the match, do crazy/intense to heighten a feud, and make you misty eyed too. I don't think there are many guys who could do that EVER. And he had the catchphrases too.
JBL's 15-minute-plus monologue with an inflatable Godzilla (during the Big Show feud) put him in elite company in my book. A lot of guys are great talkers, but JBL could actually ACT. In the ring? Awful, aside from his finish.
I guess it depends if they're judging based on prime or career-long work. In his prime, #3 is probably right. I agree with you on Cornette, not so much on Hogan. #9 is fine, but his interviews were SOOO one-dimensional. His charisma jumped off the screen, but the content was way formulaic.
Also Tag I mean I didn't watch ECW until 99 but I never saw him cut anything of a great promo. He had a great character that was maybe ahead of its time but great talker? No way
HHH was way too high. Just because you got the longest amount of time to speak dost make you great. Michaels was miles better. HBK was better than HHH at all aspects of pro wrestling.
Really? People are upset over Piper? Speaking was his whole thing! You really do need a great bad guy to make a great good guy, cliche or not. And Piper was fantastic. Even past 89 he was great, he was just an even worse worker. He pretty much convinced a crowd to buy MULTIPLE PPVs to watch him battle Hogan in the late 1990s, and it certainly was not solely through nostalgia.
It's hard to acknowledge when people say 'so and so should be higher/lower'... well, then who loses their spot? You think the list is otherwise fine? I just think the idea that every single person is well placed except so-and-so, who MUST be acknowledged, is crazy...
Not saying I don't have an opinion, but I'd have to think long and hard to determine specific numbers for anyone, who they should replace, who's been wronged, overrated, etc...
I'd definitely switch out Miz for DDP, for starters. And DDP may get higher. And yeah, I've been a DDP fan a looongg time - so what? :-p I can admit bias!
I know people were annoyed by those "Hollywood scum Hogan" promos but dude was insanely over in 98. I can't think of too many great promos he had I think it's more "I liked that guy and his character" and that makes it hard sometimes. I don't think Miz is a top 50 but from the time he won the US title until after his WM main event he cut some pretty good promos.
Jericho is great but in no *universe* is he a better talker than Jake. Nor are most of the top 10. I would have put Jake at 5 after Flair, Rock, Heyman, Rhodes.
What I like about Triple H is that his promos actually build the match as something serious, and they have that epic feel about them. He's the antithesis of someone like Cena who makes me not care an iota about his matches.
I'd go so far as to say that Michaels should barely be on the list, no higher than #40. He was never really *that* strong a promo guy in terms of actually talking but he more than made up for it with acting and body language (and, of course, in-ring storytelling that couldn't be topped).
Even in recent years, Piper has still been able to bust out the occasional epic promo to remind us all of his glory days. He had a great one with Jericho in the buildup to WM25, and then there was the incredible "don't let Wade Barrett disgrace the guys who never won this belt" segment with Cena leading up to Survivor Series 2010.
Scott Steiner being on this list is a joke, even at 50. Jake Roberts at 11 is too low.. should be in the top 5. Raven at 28 is a complete slap in the face to his promos. Should at least be top 10. DiBiase at 28 kind of seems low. Hogan at 9 seems pretty high. I love his heel promos but he does stumble over his words quite a bit.
BRAY WYATT AT 34? BUAHAHA. I love Bray but the guy has been cutting promos for WWE for about..hmmmm, almost 5 months? And he's already the 34th best talker in wrestling history? Fuckin' WWE always has to get new talent on these lists.
Flyers-Rangers, about to add Hawks-Blues to the rotation here.
ReplyDeleteI was just thinking... I do NOT like the NHL's regular season OT system. I never had a problem with ties in the old days... play one 10-minute OT 4-on-4, and if no one scores, then fuck it. The shootout can go back to the scrap pile, leave that shit for soccer.
I always just hated his stupid fucking catchphrases. Never liked Austin for the same reason, though his catchphrases weren't stupid, they were badass. But still, to me it just feels like the same promo over and over again. And Rock SUCKED on the stick in his last go-around.
ReplyDelete"Hulk Hogan! We comin' for YOU, nigga!"
ReplyDeleteThe look on his face when he realized what he just said is fucking priceless, Sherri's reaction is pretty funny too. Did he ever get in trouble for that? I recall that someone asked Hogan about and he just laughed and said that he never even noticed until someone else brought it up, and could care less.
ReplyDeleteLOVE that promo. He cut a pretty epic one in February '05 during the build-up to Wrestelmania 21, too.
ReplyDeleteI think Cena is a good talker. I don't think he's the 12th best in the history of the business and there's a lot of guys ranked lower I'd easily put ahead of him.
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner?! Bwahahaha... yeah right. And why include Steph, Vince, and Bobby but not JR? Does the talker have to step between the ropes and take a bump to qualify? Yeah, I'm nitpicky, but that's the fun of these things. (Some names that I'd have put on the list: Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie, King Kong Bundy, Jimmy Hart, Honky Tonk Man, Brother Love, Curt Hennig, Kevin Nash, Theodore Long, Bad News Barrett, and Hornswoggle.)
ReplyDeleteSavage and Jake are too low, Jericho's too high. Lalwler should probably be higher based on Memphis.
ReplyDeleteSteph at 37? Miz in the top 50? Uh, no. And Bray's working hard but it's way too soon for him to be on here.
I liked Sherri, but she really was an mediocre promo.
ReplyDeleteThis might have been the time to be a bit sexist and admit that there haven't been a lot of great woman talkers. Sunny is the closest I can think of, and I'm not sure she breaks the top 50.
"I've been in the danger zone — yeah! — I've been in the danger zone, east of the Pacific Ocean, west of London England, south of Mars, and north of Hell! Yeah!"
ReplyDeleteHeenan below #1 is crazy.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who thinks Hogan should be WAY lower?
ReplyDeleteHeenan Royal Rumble 1992 is #1 by itself.
ReplyDeleteEverything else Heenan is #2.
Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes made it. I guess that's...
ReplyDelete...Because some lisps *clap-clap* are on this list
Shawn Michaels should be MUCH higher. Higher than Triple H, since he's the only one who was able to make people care about face Triple H after 2009.
ReplyDeleteHeel Trish was able to handle the crowds that were heckling Lita after the news leaked that Lita slept with Edge.
ReplyDeleteI disagree on Cena being a good talker. He's always so wooden and sounds like he's reciting remembered lines. And when he tries emotion, it's so forced. Otherwise, he's great.
ReplyDeleteI love his charisma. I'll agree with you though in his last run in 13 he was bad. For instance, cookie puss.
ReplyDeleteHaven't read the comments but Vince should be higher
ReplyDeleteDefinitely subjective and I could easily pick nits, but I'll go positive instead. Like AA getting that high up on a list. Could easily see his subdued intensity getting passed over i these type lists
ReplyDeleteJR doesn't cut promos.
ReplyDeletePiper is waaaaaaaay too high.
ReplyDeleteThe important things to remember with these lists is that they are all subjective and that WWE has to get some current wrestlers on the list. Once you accept those two facts it isn't too bad
ReplyDeleteAgreed on both counts. Rock at his peak was a great heel promo -- but in general I'd say he's more charisma and funny with lots of catchphrases hung on it. He's good at playing intensity too, but it definitely felt VERY forced this last time around.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I guess that is a talent too -- the ability to be hilarious like that, but it's a singular one. Flair was a much better promo at his peak to me, because he could hit every side of the emotional compass -- he could be cool or funny as a great heel and sell the match, do crazy/intense to heighten a feud, and make you misty eyed too. I don't think there are many guys who could do that EVER. And he had the catchphrases too.
Why do you think that? I personally think he's considered great because everyone has said he's great for so long.
ReplyDeleteHe has though. Many times.
ReplyDeletePeople have selective memories. They choose to remember 83-88 when he was great, and ignore 89-now when he's one of the worst ever.
ReplyDeleteMany? Many?
ReplyDeleteYES! YES!
ReplyDeleteFair enough. Who would you have as one?
ReplyDeleteBy that logic, Ric Flair is one of the worst ever now because he sounds like he just got done closing down the bar.
ReplyDeleteI think too many of the BoDers are too young to get the reference. Hell, I was born in 87 but I still love them.
ReplyDeleteI think Flair and Rock are the top 2. I'd have hogan, Cornette and raven higher.
ReplyDeletePut Ventura in this over-produced era and he'd be no better than JBL. (and that's a shame.)
ReplyDeleteJBL's 15-minute-plus monologue with an inflatable Godzilla (during the Big Show feud) put him in elite company in my book. A lot of guys are great talkers, but JBL could actually ACT. In the ring? Awful, aside from his finish.
ReplyDeleteNo Kevin Nash or Scott Hall? I thought Bret Hart Hart in 97 was really good maybe even 96 and 97.
ReplyDeleteI guess it depends if they're judging based on prime or career-long work. In his prime, #3 is probably right. I agree with you on Cornette, not so much on Hogan. #9 is fine, but his interviews were SOOO one-dimensional. His charisma jumped off the screen, but the content was way formulaic.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, he's one of the few modern WWE guys who could act really well and they never tried to shoehorn him in a WWE Studios movie.
ReplyDeleteI'd go Rock and Austin.
ReplyDeleteAlso Tag I mean I didn't watch ECW until 99 but I never saw him cut anything of a great promo. He had a great character that was maybe ahead of its time but great talker? No way
ReplyDeleteThis is the perfect description of what made Flair great. Nailed it.
ReplyDeleteHe was decent in 97 but miserable before and after.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'll give you that. It's just maddening watching JBL's stellar promo work and then flipping back to his "THIS IS GREAT!" commentary bullshit.
ReplyDeleteHHH was way too high. Just because you got the longest amount of time to speak dost make you great. Michaels was miles better. HBK was better than HHH at all aspects of pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteCalm down, Dunkin Donuts Guy.
ReplyDeleteMichaels was never a super amazing talker, which is what you need to be (theoretically) to be high on the list.
ReplyDeleteBy the way... cookie puss is now TRENDING WORLDWIDE!
ReplyDeleteIt's a testament to something that Rock stayed over in his latest run despite cutting some absolutely awful promos.
Really? People are upset over Piper? Speaking was his whole thing! You really do need a great bad guy to make a great good guy, cliche or not. And Piper was fantastic. Even past 89 he was great, he was just an even worse worker. He pretty much convinced a crowd to buy MULTIPLE PPVs to watch him battle Hogan in the late 1990s, and it certainly was not solely through nostalgia.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to acknowledge when people say 'so and so should be higher/lower'... well, then who loses their spot? You think the list is otherwise fine? I just think the idea that every single person is well placed except so-and-so, who MUST be acknowledged, is crazy...
ReplyDeleteNot saying I don't have an opinion, but I'd have to think long and hard to determine specific numbers for anyone, who they should replace, who's been wronged, overrated, etc...
I'd definitely switch out Miz for DDP, for starters. And DDP may get higher. And yeah, I've been a DDP fan a looongg time - so what? :-p I can admit bias!
I know people were annoyed by those "Hollywood scum Hogan" promos but dude was insanely over in 98. I can't think of too many great promos he had I think it's more "I liked that guy and his character" and that makes it hard sometimes. I don't think Miz is a top 50 but from the time he won the US title until after his WM main event he cut some pretty good promos.
ReplyDeleteNope. Sucked.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, how have people not heard that one?
ReplyDeleteJericho is great but in no *universe* is he a better talker than Jake. Nor are most of the top 10. I would have put Jake at 5 after Flair, Rock, Heyman, Rhodes.
ReplyDeleteWhat I like about Triple H is that his promos actually build the match as something serious, and they have that epic feel about them. He's the antithesis of someone like Cena who makes me not care an iota about his matches.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who didn't get that reference is not worth a conversation with, regardless of their age.
ReplyDeleteI never thought Shawn had a decent promo until 3 months before he retired the first time.
ReplyDeleteFor me, it's Dusty. I could watch him cut promos for days.
ReplyDeleteThey had to forget Nash, right? There's some silly things on the list, but if Nash couldn't talk, he'd be that angry guy that was feuding with Punk.
ReplyDeleteI'd have rated Bockwinkel higher and added Ole.
ReplyDeleteI can't even think of two "must-see" historic promos from Piper, yet I can pull at least two or three from everyone else in the top ten.
ReplyDelete"HHH was way too high."
ReplyDeleteSo was I, but I handled my shit.
I'm giving you an upvote. Ladies and gentlemen, hell has officially frozen over, and pigs can now fly.
ReplyDeleteWhen you put it that way I agree. I said he should be higher, I meant higher than some of the people above him. #12 is too high for him.
ReplyDeleteJBL is 1/100th the commentator I am, forget about Jesse.
ReplyDeleteThey've mentioned cm punk on a WWE list???
ReplyDeleteZen colter???
Anyway, I always liked Kurt angle as a promo guy. He did comedy and intensity really well.
EXCUUUUSE ME!!!
ReplyDeleteAny pro wrestling / sports entertainment list that puts New Jack above Dutch Mantell in any capacity is absurd...
ReplyDeleteAlso, Heenan is WAY too low. You could make a legit case he's #1...
ReplyDeleteBoth Trips and HBK cut basically the same type of over-long promo for most of their careers. They're pretty interchangeable in my mind.
ReplyDelete"Best Black Wrestler"?
ReplyDeleteIt's WWE.com and they've placed HHH at 19? Someone's getting demoted on Monday.
ReplyDeleteGuy could rap after all.
ReplyDeleteDamnit, now not only am I watching the WrestleRock Rumble, but also Cornette's "critique" of it.
ReplyDeleteI'd go so far as to say that Michaels should barely be on the list, no higher than #40. He was never really *that* strong a promo guy in terms of actually talking but he more than made up for it with acting and body language (and, of course, in-ring storytelling that couldn't be topped).
ReplyDeleteEven in recent years, Piper has still been able to bust out the occasional epic promo to remind us all of his glory days. He had a great one with Jericho in the buildup to WM25, and then there was the incredible "don't let Wade Barrett disgrace the guys who never won this belt" segment with Cena leading up to Survivor Series 2010.
ReplyDeletePunk being above HHH is pretty funny. I think Hulk's a tad too high, and Vince too low. Heenan should be higher, also.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6vASwhleU4
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, this isn't super amazing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6vASwhleU4
ReplyDeleteThis is a promo from the guy that you think should "barely be on the list".
Dutch absolutely can cut a promo. His USWA stuff was really good
ReplyDeleteNope, Dutch is a better Black wrestler. Not as good as Michael Hayes of course.
ReplyDeleteWait, no Jimmy Hart?
ReplyDeleteThey have their 50, I have mine.
ReplyDeleteJust a few notables...
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner being on this list is a joke, even at 50. Jake Roberts at 11 is too low.. should be in the top 5. Raven at 28 is a complete slap in the face to his promos. Should at least be top 10. DiBiase at 28 kind of seems low. Hogan at 9 seems pretty high. I love his heel promos but he does stumble over his words quite a bit.
BRAY WYATT AT 34? BUAHAHA. I love Bray but the guy has been cutting promos for WWE for about..hmmmm, almost 5 months? And he's already the 34th best talker in wrestling history? Fuckin' WWE always has to get new talent on these lists.
I loved the Warrior always...but come on.
ReplyDeleteBret Hart was better than 25 of those guys.
Been confirmed Joey Styles compiled this list which explains a LOT of the choices.
ReplyDelete