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Clash Countdown: #28

The SmarK Rant for Clash of the Champions XXVIII (August 1994)

There are apparently “technical difficulties”, which forces the deletion of the country singer singing the national anthem. OK then. I also had technical difficulties with the original rant, in that it sucked and had bad formatting, so here’s a fresh version. This was the highest rated Clash ever and one of the highest rated wrestling shows on cable until the Monday Night Wars started blowing all the old records away. I’m pretty sure that Hogan had nothing to do with that.

Live from Cedar Rapids, IA

Your hosts are Tony Schiavone & Bobby Heenan

Special Tag Team Feature: The Nasty Boys v. Pretty Wonderful

Roma and Orndorff are the champions, but this is non-title. Apparently the Nasties have turned babyface since losing the titles, although I remember very little of this. However, Knobs yells out “Nasty!” after his moves like a babyface now instead of a heel, so that’s clearly a turn. Knobs hammers on Orndorff and puts him down with an elbow, and the Nasties do some clobbering on Roma. Just not the same without Dusty to call it. Sags gets double-teamed on the floor, however, while Tony goes on a weird rant about how WCW lets fans decide stuff, unlike those other guys. Which is funny because I don’t recall WCW fans clamoring for Hogan on top. Sags hangs out on the floor taking the occasional shot, and back in for a flying elbow from Roma that’s roughly 100 times better than Sags’. See, there you go, I paid Roma a compliment. He does one move better than one of the worst wrestlers in the company. Hope it doesn’t go to his head. Roma drops knees while Barry Darsow debuts his new gimmick of “Obnoxious heel fan” while Roma goes to the chinlock. Dropkick from Roma gets two. Tony relates a quote from Pretty Wonderful: “Not only is it great to be champions, it’s great to be champions here in this new era of WCW where we are the defining standard of professional wrestling.” Now that’s a money promo! Kids around the schools were always talking about how WCW was the defining standard of pro wrestling. The champs hit a powerplex on Knobs, but Sags drops the Shitty Elbow on Orndorff and pins him at 9:00, despite neither guy being legal. This was a match that opened the show. *

HULK HOGAN HOTLINE, brother! I bet Linda got all that hotline money in the divorce.

Hulk Hogan comes out for an interview, but OH MY GOD, someone in a Black Scorpion Halloween costume pulls a Tonya Harding on him and hits his knee with a lead pipe. So why doesn’t he just hulk up and no-sell it? Pussy. Like seriously, guys get hit in the face with chairs and barbed wire and shit in the ring and this guy takes one shot to the knee and we get a 10 minute segment dedicated to putting him on a stretcher? Gene notes that this is the WORST NIGHTMARE OF ANY WRESTLING FAN. Don’t oversell it or anything there, Gene. As noted previously, this was intended to be Curt Hennig but was played here by Arn Anderson.

US title: Stunning Steve Austin v. Ricky Steamboat

They trade headlocks to start and Austin immediately accuses Steamboat of pulling his hair, which would become much less of an issue by the year after. They trade some vicious chops and Steamboat puts him down with dropkicks and gets a powerslam for two. Meanwhile, the ambulance drives Hogan to the hospital. For a boo-boo on his knee? Doesn’t anyone know how to say “put some ice on it”? Pinfall reversal and Steamboat goes to the armdrag, which is the point where the Clash DVD set picks it up so as to omit the Hogan stuff. Steamboat holds an armbar, which turns into a nice little mat segment. Austin tosses him out and they brawl outside, with Austin turning into a footrace before running into a chop. Back in, they trade sleeper attempts, but Austin escapes with KICK WHAM STUNNER...or just a jawbreaker, whatever. Austin throws chops in the corner, but gets hiptossed before missing a charge and hitting the post. Steamboat walks the ropes to hurt the arm, and follows with the flying chop for two. Austin comes back with a kneedrop for two and slugs away on the ropes. He goes to the chinlock and we take a break. Back with Austin getting a suplex for two. They fight on the top and Steamboat goes down, but crotches Austin. He fights for a superplex, but Austin hits it instead. Steamboat keeps coming and nails Austin coming off the top, however. Steamboat back up, but the flying bodypress misses and Austin sends him facefirst into the mat. He doesn't follow up, though, slapping him around instead of pinning him, which allows Steamboat to fight up again. Steamboat is PISSED and fires away, chopping Austin down for two. Spinebuster gets two. Electric chair gets two and Steamboat's back is killing him, you can see it. Small package gets two. Rollup gets two. Backslide gets two. Sunset flip gets two. Austin finally ends the rally with a clothesline and dumps him, but Steamboat pulls himself in and gets a rollup for two, then finishes with a small package at 15:30 to win the US title. That finishing sequence, with Steamboat's babyface comeback and the series of insane near-falls on a desperate Austin, was some of the best American pro wrestling you will ever see. ****1/4 And that was it for Steamboat’s career until the sort-of comeback against Jericho.

Meanwhile, at the hospital, Eric Bischoff reports on Hogan’s injury, although WCW has more money than they did when they ran the same angle in 1991, so this time they can at least do a remote shoot from a real hospital.

The Honky Tonk Man debuts his new music video, which sounds suspiciously like his old one. The backup singers literally look and sound like a bunch of girls they found on the street and dressed up in matching outfits. Because WCW.

Nick Bockwinkel lets us know that if Hogan is unable to fulfil his commitments and defend against Flair tonight, he’ll have to forfeit the title. Well, it’s looking pretty bleak, brother.

Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck v. Dustin Rhodes & Dusty Rhodes

Dusty’s promo to set up this tag match is everything that Hogan’s angle was lacking, featuring real emotions and passion and actual stakes. Dustin slugs it out with Buck and boots him down, and the heels have some miscommunication, allowing Dustin beat on them and clean house. Big Dust comes in and throws elbows, which gives Funk the opportunity do his crazy selling. I’m sure you didn’t have to ask him twice. Dustin powerslams Buck for two, but turns his back and gets hit in the head with a boot. When will that boy ever learn? So the Stud Stable takes over and cuts off the ring, but Buck hits Funk with the boot by mistake and it’s hot tag Dusty. They’re certainly keeping this one brisk. AA comes out and punks out Dustin and the heel beatdown of Dusty is on, just like old times. This also brings the Clash debut of the MONSTER MENG, back when he was wearing a suit and trying to be Big Bubba Rogers. The match breaks down into a donnybrook and Arn runs in for the DQ at 7:22. Clearly this was all a backdrop for the angle anyway. *1/2 Meng gets all up in Dusty’s area, so Dusty breaks a wooden chair over his head in their attempt to recreate the Dusty-Bubba angle of 1986. This was less effective, of course, but at least they were trying something that had some track record of success previously instead of whatever stupid shit they came up with in 95 while doing blow off hookers in strip clubs.

Meanwhile, at the hospital, Hogan’s cronies feel that he should just forfeit the title because doctors are concerned. And his lawyer is also concerned, so you know it’s serious. But Hogan wants to wrestle and defend his title, because if there’s one thing you can say about Hogan, it’s that he always works matches he doesn’t have to and makes sure fans don’t go home disappointed!

Ric Flair demands that Hogan walk down and hand him the belt. Sherri’s got some other weird thing going on. Flair and Sherri were just never a good match.

Antonio Inoki v. Lord Steven Regal

This was a weird one that I never got. They do some shooty-shoot stuff with Regal throwing forearms in the corner and the crowd not really caring. As well, the Network connection is pretty bad tonight, which isn’t helping the match. I actually had to switch from the Roku to the PS3 at this point. So there you go, proof this wasn’t written in 1998. Regal kicks Inoki down and works for a kimura as the connection finally calms the fuck down. Regal with a facelock, but more importantly than this wrestling shit, HULK HOGAN HAS ARRIVED. Apparently he walked, five blocks mind you, from the hospital on a bad knee in the 10 minutes since that last update. Anyway, Inoki keeps working for and finally gets a rear naked choke on Regal at 8:24. This was kind of MMA-ish in a half-hearted stupid way, but didn’t really work and was only there so Hogan could make his dramatic return. DUD

WCW World title: Hulk Hogan v. Ric Flair

Logic and wrestling history say that Hogan does the job here to make him look sympathetic in defeat and set up the cage match at Halloween Havoc, but you know, Hogan. Flair starts throwing chops right away and Hulk no-sells them and chokes him out in the corner, and we get a Flair Flip. They brawl on the floor and Flair gets the worst of that as Tony notes that Flair had the ULTIMATE surprise for Hogan and it turned out to be the PERFECT plan. Clearly the perpetrator only could have been “Macho Warrior” Ric Hogan given those clues. Clearly HHH and Flair go to the same school of master planning if the big payoff was hitting a dude with a big stick. So Flair finally goes to the knee and follows up with a suplex, but Hogan pops up and drops elbows, and we get another Flair Flip. Back to the floor, but Flair goes to the knee again and this time Hogan doesn’t no-sell it. Flair fights for the figure-four and Hogan fights him off and bails, so Flair attacks the knee on the floor. Back in, figure-four looks to end the legend of Hulkamania, but he fights out of it and Flair goes back to the knee again. Hulk mounts the comeback this time and hits the big boot, but the pressure on the knee makes it give way, and that should have been the finish. He still manages to drop the leg, but can’t stand up on it again, and Flair recovers first with the figure-four. So yeah, logically, there’s your finish. The hero gives it his all, can’t get the pin after hitting his big finisher, loses nobly in the end and comes back to fight another day. But no, instead he makes the ropes and falls out of the ring, giving Flair the lame countout win at 14:22. Michael Buffer fucks up the announcement, declaring Flair the new champion, before sort-of correcting himself. Flair carried Hogan to something really good, but the finish was ridiculously bad because they had every out to allow Hogan a clean job without looking the least bit bad or weak, and they still did the shitty TV screwjob instead. ***1/2 But hey, I’m sure Hogan would return the job to Flair sometime in the 20 years following, right? The mysterious masked man attacks again and this time Sting makes the save, which was setting up Hogan & Sting v. Flair & Hennig, but obviously plans fell through there.

The Pulse

I was so insulted as a fan that this was where I jumped off WCW for a long time, because it was so apparent that the company was going nowhere that I wanted to watch. Meltzer’s take on it (at least at the time) was that yeah, it was stupid and Hogan was basically going scorched earth on the promotion, but the company was dead in the water at the end of 1993 and was only saved by Turner due to loyalty and the promise of bringing in Hogan in the first place, so shitty is better than gone. I haven’t checked the December issues to see if he was still that positive when Hogan was fighting Beefcake in the main event of Starrcade.

Anyway, two good matches on this show, but the Hogan angle is some prime bullshit Hogan stuff. It’s worth a look, I suppose, but only for those two matches.

Comments

  1. PRIME BULLSHIT HOGAN STUFF = “It doesn't work for me, brother”

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  2. "THE BULLSHIT POLITICS IN THE BACK!"

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  3. I see where Meltzer's coming from. I mean, I'm with Scott, in that this was very much not a direction I wanted to see. But, as Meltzer noted, the company was only hanging on heading into 1993 because of Ted Turner, so the change was at least understandable. I mean, sure Steve Austin was there waiting in the wings, but do we really think Ric Flair was suddenly going to elevate him or something?



    And besides all that, bringing in Hogan worked. PPV revenue increased. Eventually, Bischoff was able to get Nitro on the air. Hogan became one of the top heels ever and helped lead their most successful time in history. That WCW couldn't capitalize and figure a way to elevate their midcard guys and stay on top is another matter altogether.

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  4. I can agree with some of this... but your last line is DIRECTLY on Hogan, Bischoff, and Friends. And that will forever be the question: Was "mortgaging" your future worth the short to medium term boost?

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  5. It was directly on Bischoff for giving everyone and their brother creative control. It was also on Bischoff for not being able to talk to people and convince them that doing the right thing for business would be best for them in the long run. I mean, I honestly have always felt- even back then- that WCW would have been far better off to just let Hogan go go at some point, and try to build around Goldberg, DDP (yeah, I know, but damn was he over), Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, and others.


    I totally get what you're saying, though.

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  6. How badly hurt was Ricky Steamboat? Obviously this was his last match for 15 years so it was pretty bad but was there ever talk of both him and Ravishing Rick Rude overselling their injuries in '94 due to handsome insurance payouts and the prospect of doing jobs to Brutus Beefcake and Hacksaw Jim Duggan?

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  7. I think Meltzer points out the overall wrestling quality going way down, and considering Starrcade '94, Superbrawl V and Uncensored, that was an easy conclusion to come to. attendance was up, but still below what WWF Did, and PPV buys were catching up to WWF, if not passing them on some cases. TV ratings stayed the same.

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  8. Nah, Steamboat was too much a pro to pull that. HIs DVD has him talking about it, really hurt to have to end his career, he was still amazing in the ring and loved wrestling so much. At the least, he wanted to stick around and get the belt back to Austin but no, he really had to give it up rather than risk further injury and mar his family life which he also adored.

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  9. Want to know some shit? Bischoff fired him before his contract expired. While he was hurt. I know, I'm surprised he would do that, too.

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  10. Perhaps the last gasp of "true" WCW as next month has Fall Brawl with Foley sent out, Austin given the US belt and then jobbing it in 10 seconds to Hacksaw Jim Duggan and one of the worst War Games bouts ever while Hogan only shows up via a TV interview where he's clearly booed hard by fans.

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  11. That WarGames (Rhodes/Nasties vs. Stud Stable) was surprisingly good. Nothing touches the shit from 1995 and 1998. Hell, 1993 might be up there, too.

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  12. Fall Brawl is definitely the transition show from old WCW to new. You have a good blend of both with the awesome Rhodes/Stud Stable being pretty much blown off to close the show.


    The next month, Hogan retires Flair and all hell breaks loose.

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  13. "Clearly HHH and Flair go to the same school of master planning if the big payoff was hitting a dude with a big stick"

    That quote made me think of the angle where HHH was manipulating Eugene into helping him win the title from Benoit. HHH is the cerebral assassin and has this gigantic jacked freak (Batista), one of the hottest young superstars ever (Orton) and arguably the greatest technician ever (Flair) in his corner and his big master plan is to get a mentally handicapped guy to try to hit his opponent with a chair.

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  14. Why didn't they just do Hogan & Sting vs Flair & Anderson at Havoc then do Hogan vs Flair in the cage at Starrcade?

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  15. I still don't know why they never ended up doing Macho/Hogan vs. Sting/Luger. The match might've stunk but would've gotten a pretty big buyrate.

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  16. Starrcade wasn't WCW's #1 PPV. It seemed to change on a whim every year. Havoc '94 was interesting enough that my family bought it. First WCW PPV since Wrestlewar '91.

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  17. LOL Becuz WCW LOL.

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  18. Yeah they seemed to change year to year... I honestly think they looked at SuperBrawl, BATB, Havoc and Starrcade as their big four... those always seemed to have the most loaded up build and matches or celebrity involvement.

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  19. We can easily classify Fall Brawl as "throwaway PPV". 1994 they went without Hogan, and original plans were to leave him off the 1995 card, too. That would've robbed us of The Hulkamaniacs vs. Dungeon of Doom Wargames, though... and why must EVERY TEAM HOGAN CAPTAINS BE NAMED HULKAMANIACS?! Selfish bastard.

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  20. Not a bad way to do things honestly. Certainly better than nowadays where it's Rumble to Mania than 9 months of who gives a shit interrupted only by Summerslam.

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  21. Totally agree

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  22. They seemed to look at Fall Brawl and Slamboree as throwaways most years... seemed like Hogan was never at those shows.

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  23. Kept him off Starrcade '95 too, I think. Weird show for casual fans, unless I'm confusing years. That was the WCW vs. New Japan stuff?

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  24. If WWE has a really shitty Mania season like that god awful 2013 run where The Rock ends the 435 days and Twice In A Lifetime and all that bullshit there's really no do over and the company just has a lame, lost year.

    Was there anything great in WWE 2013 besides Punk vs. Undertaker, Punk vs. Lesnar and Bryan vs. Cena? Literally everything else was completely non memorable.

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  25. So Starrcade '94 Hulk Hogan Vs Curt Hennig would have certainly been better than Brother Bruti the Barber Butcher With No Face.


    Throw in Ric Flair Vs Macho Man and you've got yourself a genuine card.

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  26. You have it right. WCW/NJPW and Flair/Luger/Sting to determine Savage's challenger for the World Title (Flair won both).

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  27. The Shield vs. Rhodes Brother was AWESOME and the only saving grace for Battleground.

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  28. Flair was "retired", and planned to keep him out of the ring until the Spring of '95. Still don't know the logic behind the retirement stipulation.

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  29. I've thought of going to the network for that PPV just to watch that match but every time I think "Eww, it's Battleground"

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  30. It's a 4 star+ match. The rest can go to hell.

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  31. In this scenario the Havoc match wouldn't be a retirement match. Keeping Ric & Curt together would have been integral to the whole angle.


    But who knows maybe Ric wanted the time off?

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  32. I would take anything over this "Triple Main Event": Hogan vs. Not Brutus Beefcake, Sting vs. Not Earthquake, and Mr. T vs. Anyone.

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  33. I LOVE how fucking Sting isn't allowed to go clean over Avalanche!


    Plus how did HHH get on that card?

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  34. From what I've seen, Hogan wanted Flair GONE ASAP because Flair's pops were eating into Hogan's "hero worship".

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  35. WCW had plans to pair him with Regal, but he went to WWF because they had a youth movement and more chances for advancing up the card. Bischoff buried him on commentary on his way out, of course.

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  36. I think Macho and Sting would pull Hulk and Lex into a good match by sheer will.

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  37. Respectfully, was Hogan that insecure that WCW was just using him? Because it would almost been cool with hindsight to see Hogan job here and win it back at Havoc. You don't even need Hogan to submit, you have a dumb ref stop due to injury spot. I got the idea of why Hogan didn't want to job due to his superhuman mistique in the 1980's -- but seriously there had to be a way to do some kind of finish other than Hogan rolling out of the ring. Then again it had to be something for Hogan to consider jobbing before calling the auidable.

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  38. I never understood why HHH is the cerebral assassin. All he does is punch, use his knee, hit dudes with sledge hammers and use his big finisher. Hardly the masterwork of an expert strategist.

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  39. Yeah i watched Trips latest documentary and he recounts most of this.


    Also included was HHH turing his nose up at only making like 60K a year in '94 which he described as being like a starving artist.

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  40. "Was Hogan that insecure"


    Yes! It really is still real to some of them dammit! Rowdy Roddy Piper was the same way.

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  41. They added the retirement stips because the cage stips weren't drawing because the stupid dq finish here killed any interest in the 3rd match.

    Scott says it a bunch of times here, but obviously Flair should win the belt. And if Hogan won't do the job, why injure him? Just do a non-conclusive finish with both guys at full strength; doing this just made Flair look like a pussy.

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  42. The third main event was Vader v Duggan.

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  43. Don't forget that's 60k less road expenses.

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  44. That opened the show didn't it?


    At least Vader went over strong to win the US Title. Shame his reign was so weak, i thought he was going to go on a LexLuger/Rick Rude level tear.

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  45. 60K 20 years ago for a no name indy geek's first run in the big time seems more than fair.

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  46. Didn't that match happen on a Nitro?

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  47. He used racism to beat Booker T.
    He used necrophilia to beat Kane.

    And he's managed to keep that sledgehammer hidden from the WWE officials for 15 YEARS.

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  48. Even minus road expenses, 20 years ago 60K was a good chunk of change for a guy who hadn't proved himself anywhere.

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  49. No Macho Man Randy Savage on the Starrcade card, i'm guessing no compete clause for 90 days was the culprit there right?

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  50. You're right. That is pretty impressive.

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  51. He didn't wrestle but he did the "shake your hand or slap your face" thing.

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  52. Whenever I hear/see Brother Bruti it makes me laugh.

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  53. They did an angle where he was gonna shake Hogan's hand or slap him. I do not think there was a no-compete. I think they just did that bit of intrigue instead of a match with him, and saved his debut match for the clash.

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  54. Bottom Line: Was it worth it overall for WCW to bring Hulk Hogan in?

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  55. I thought that was at his Saturday Night debut on Da Mothership?


    But i honestly can't remember, i haven't exactly been hankering for a re-watch of Starrcade '94.

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  56. It's not like WCW was in great shakes in business in early '94 but they still had better in-ring product and with Vince distracted by the steroid trial, time was ripe for them to hit back. Yeah, bringing in Hogan may have helped the immediate future with PPV rates and such but transforming WCW into the circus they'd always been the opposite of and making it all about Hogan and such drove away slews of their loyal fans that would end up biting them in the ass in the end.

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  57. Ah, not like he's the only ultra-rich athlete out there acting like 50K a year was a pauper's salary.

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  58. Now this i believe completely.

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  59. I agree that it drove away loyal fans, but in the end, they got some of those fans back as well as a shitload more a few years later. "Stealing" Hogan away from the WWE raised the profile of the company at a time when it was about to fold, so I would say it was worth it.

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  60. I think without Hogan & Friends going to WCW, there would have been no Stone Cold Steve Austin, no Mankind, no nWo, no Attitude, no Monday Night War and everything else. And so I would say it was worth it - even with the horrible things that were happening in 1995 in both companys.

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  61. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 1:27 PM

    Clearly bringing in Mr. T to referee the next Hogan/Flair match at Havoc would be the (wait for it) MOTHER of all celebrity appearances to put WCW at the top.

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  62. Well it eventually led to the NWO, so id say yea

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  63. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 1:30 PM

    Fall Brawl 94 to Fall Brawl 95 is exactly one year of unwatchable WCW. IMO, the worst year of the company besides late 99 to 2000.

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  64. Sure, just don't give him so much power. If he was brought in like say Macho Man was no one would have complained too loudly. By letting him book his own angles and bring in everyone who ever smoked a spliff with him backstage though he really set the product back at least quality wise.


    Besides WCW in 1995 was always going to look different with the career ending injuries to Ricky Steamboat,Rick Rude and in my opinion the departures of Steve Austin & Cactus Jack were inevitable.

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  65. Only the epic feud of Kevin and his retarded dyslexic brother Evad could truly bring WCW to the top.

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  66. I sadly admit that I called the Hulk Hogan hotline twice. It started with a minute long promo, and once it got to the options, I figured "i've been on too long already", so I hung up. I tried again the next day, hoping I could skip the opening promo by pressing "1"... Nope!! Not happening, so I hung up again.

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  67. Considering Steamboat came back to wrestle 15 years later and still look good, I suspect he could have come back at anytime, but I'm not sure if he could have handled a full time schedule. I think Steamboat did a radio interview in 2004 where he said he was willing to come back and wrestle Ric Flair at WM20.

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  68. I don't blame you. I recall the show being terrible.

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  69. Hi, you have reached the Hulk Hogan hotline, $4.95 a minute. Let us see today's headlines...Canada Stalls Trade Pact...

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  70. Exactly, sort of like the Shawn Michaels scenario of 98-2002. Hurt yes? Badly? Yes! But not THAT bad.


    Ricky's story probably has less Somas & Blow involved though.

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  71. See, that would have been a good angle, ala Regal's Power of the Punch once upon a time.


    First match: Sledge used in the open for the "cheap" DQ.


    Next match, ref finds sledge, puts it out of the way... HHH has a second one on the opposite side.


    Next match, ref finds three of them (HHH tried to stay one step ahead, but nope), gets them sent backstage, but one of them comes back somehow.


    Next match, ref finds a damn hardware store's stock of hammers, sends the whole kit and kaboodle backstage... whoops, Falls Count Anywhere.


    And so on.... play with it.

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  72. I also called the WCW hotline the night after the Hogan/Flair career match at Havoc 1994. They of course spent 4 minutes talking about indy stuff and a Japan card where Dr Death won a match, before finally saying what happened.



    (Note: My parents were not happy with the extra $32 on the following month's phone bill)

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  73. Even worse was T's abortion of a match with Kevin Sullivan at Starrcade.

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  74. I love how for Hogan, beating Flair with a busted up knee was just not enough of a challenge, so he decided to WALK back on that bad knee. You know, just so he doesn't get bored out there.



    Also, that tag match had 2 legends (Dusty and Funk), a near legend (Arn), the son of a legend (Dustin), and............. Bunkhouse Buck... talk about the odd man out...

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  75. Damn, not even my Phone-a-Porno (back in the early days of dial-up internet) was that expensive... Hope it was worth it.

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  76. Dave Sullivan is what Eugene would have been like if Nick Dinsmore hadn't been as great as he was.

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  77. I think another factor was neither company wanted Steamboat badly enough to convince him to return to the ring. With Shawn, WWE badly wanted him to return as Shawn intitally wanted to work one match at Summerslam and that would be it, but WWE convinced him to do one more match until he was an active member on the roster again.

    Same thing with Rick Rude and Curt Hennig, I'm sure they would've happily retired away from the wrestling business, but WWF and WCW kept calling them because they really wanted them to come back.

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  78. Calling Jack Swagger's "father" not a legend? That's... quite correct, actually.

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  79. Hey, I found out that Brother Brutey betrayed his best friend, and Earthquake was back... So to quote Cartman at Casa Bonita...

    "TOTALLY........."

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  80. While Hulk is in the Figure Four for the final time, the ref asks Hulk if he quits and he says "yes." Hogan then grabs the ref and says "no."

    At the time, I was PISSED. I couldn 't believe the ref allowed Hogan to change his mind like that.

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  81. Oh right, sorry to over-post, but I 100% crystal clearly remember that on this show, Okerlund announced "I have great news, THE BASEBALL STRIKE IS OVER!!!"



    ....... it wasn't... The Expos still got screwed... FUCKING BALD LYING BASTARD. I was so f'n pissed when I found out it was BS. WHY WOULD HE SAY THAT?

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  82. Of course it was worth it. The end result was, to say the least, not good, but it isn't like bringing Hogan and friends in absolutely had to destroy WCW or anything.

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  83. Stranger in the AlpsMay 29, 2014 at 1:57 PM

    I have this theory that Hulk Hogan snubbed Scott at an autograph session when Scott was just 9 years old. He has never forgotten it.

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  84. Well, this is WCW we're talking about. He probably assumed they would give gim $250,000, just because.

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  85. Why would Hogan win the title in July and lose it in August?


    They signed Hogan to do his hokey Hulkamania stuff, they didn't sign him to be Flair's new Steamboat.

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  86. Both Hulk and Lex were very capable of having good matches in the right circumstances. Granted, by 1995 those circumstances may have no longer existed.

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  87. I don't think he would've come without the power. He was an outside in a company with a fanbase that always hated him. He'd have felt that Rude, Dusty, however many else would just be waiting to screw him over and make him look bad. He was always going to have to have control, I just wish he'd used it wisely.

    Wouldn't Hogan dropping the title to Flair at Havoc, Vader killing Flair at Starcade as revenge for the year before, and then Hogan avenging a face turned Flair at Superbrawl have been a much better booking sequence than what they did? But he just couldn't accept that even losing ONCE during this period would've been better for business. I mean really, a 17 month title reign, ending by a completely screwy DQ loss. Terrible.

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  88. He ADVERTISED his actions on Saturday night, but DELIVERED (ended up being a shake) at Starrcade. It wasn't that bad actually, if you ignore hogan/beefcake as a PPV main event.

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  89. Bash At The Beach '94 - 225,000
    King Of The Ring '94 - 185,000

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  90. Beat me to it... damn customers.


    But yeah, 1994 Hulk Hogan is content to try to be a Hollywood star if he doesn't get full control from WCW. No ifs, ands, buts, or promises would change that.

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  91. #LOLHOGANWINS

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  92. Exactly.
    I'd prefer watching the title switching, but when had Hogan done that before and why would he be expected to do it now?

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  93. I can't imagine expecting anything different at the time, lol.
    Can you imagine Kevin Sullivan being taken seriously in 2014?

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  94. 50/50 booking, baby!!

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  95. I didn't remember a storyline with Bunkhouse Buck playing Swagger's dad...damn, so that's a thing that happened.

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  96. Hey, he got away with a triple murder, so I would take him seriously... [/ExtremeDenial]

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  97. He couldn't job the title "clean" to The Giant even with a Jimmy Hart heel turn!


    I mean bam get hit with a megaphone, get chokeslammed by a 23 year old phenom, vow revenge.

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  98. Funny thing, I remember it happening in 1998, when Sting made his outdoor helicopter entrance. But yep, I know you meant 1995'ish.

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  99. I do remember Jack Swagger's dad coming in showing off all his son's trophys after Jack had won the World Heavyweight Title but i had no idea it was Bunkhouse Buck.

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  100. Art Donovan is not a PPV draw I guess...

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  101. No way he would job to a guy who fell off of a roof. The chokeslam would not have maximum effect.

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  102. Starting in 1993 with The Boss,through 1995, WCW recreated almost the entire 1989 WWF Roster. You had Hogan, Savage, Earthquake, Rude, Barbarian, Beefcake, Honky Tonk Man, Duggan, Barry Darsow, Haku, Arn Anderson, Dusty, Kamala, One Man Gang, and probably others I'm forgetting.

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  103. The deal with Inoki was that he came in as a favor to Hogan. Hulk pretty much called in all his chips to try and make WCW a big deal.

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  104. Here's an interesting question I have about Hogan and WCW: Obviously Hogan increased WCW's business. It's hard to deny that. But the fact that he and the other high-priced talent stunk up the main event for the next six years made that success moot as the company lost buckets of money and eventually was bought by WWF for peanuts.

    So is the history of wrestling essentially tied to promoters unable to build new draws? Think of every major company that went under:

    1) AWA thrives from 1960-1980 with Verne Gagne on top, then until the late 80s with his top rival Bockwinkel on top. Unable to build a new star because WWF keeps raiding talent, the promotion folds in early 1991 after sticking the belt on Larry Z because he's the only guy who won't leave (he's married to Gagne's daughter).

    2) World Class thrives from 1966-1977 with Fritz Von Erich on top, then he cycles through his sons to diminishing returns until Kerry goes to WWF and the promotion folds in 1990.

    3) ECW thrives in the mid-to-late 1990s with the Extreme originals on top (Sandman, Raven, Sabu, RVD, Taz, etc.), but as WWF and WCW buys off talent (like Mike Awesome) the company is stuck putting the belt on untested midcarders like Justin Credible, Jerry Lynn, Steve Corino, and Rhyno and folds in 2001.

    4) WCW is unable to build their compelling midcard into credible draws because the old guard won't share the spotlight. WWF eventually buys the whole thing in 2001 when most of the old guard has already left (including Hogan) or sitting at home and collecting paychecks (Nash, Hall).

    5) While the NWA is still around, but it's never been anything since WCW split and took all of the major names with them. It's been 2 decades and the organization has yet to build a major star and since the TNA years has put its "world title" on international stars or WWE rejects like Gunner Scott, Scotty Goldman, and Rob Conway.

    I know there are other factors like drugs, behind-the-scenes feuds, and such, but it seems pretty apparent that every major wrestling organization besides the WWF eventually sunk because the big draws left (whether to WWF or another reason) and the promotion was stuck with nobody to lean on.

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  105. He wouldn't even job to the Giant in a monster truck match.

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  106. WCW didn't die because Benoit and Jericho left.

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  107. WCW & New Japan always had a strong relationship going back years pre-Hogan. I wouldn't say Inoki coming in was strictly due to him.

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  108. That was so unfair. Giant already has his monster truck, then Hogan states "I'm gonna build a bigger and stronger monster truck". Well daah, of course he's gonna win, since he knows exactly what he needs to build!! He won't build a weaker one, that's for sure!

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  109. That's how Meltzer reported it at the time. Inoki wanted one more match in the U.S. as part of his long retirement tour and Hogan was always loyal to him, and he facilitated it. Regal was rewarded with a Tokyo Dome IWGP title match with Hashimoto, so don't cry for him too much.

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  110. I'm trying to find footage of The Giant destroying the Hulksters motorcycle before their match and am coming up empty.


    Hulk's selling of his prized hog being crushed is absolutely classic.

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  111. Say what you want about him, Phil Luckett would have called for the bell then and there.

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  112. Of course not. But the acts of Hogan, Nash, Hall and even mainstays like Flair and Sting eventually got old, and the company never built new stars to replace them. The drawing power of the only real star WCW ever built, Goldberg, was squandered. The last year of WCW was essentially Booker T, Scott Steiner, and Jeff Jarrett wrestling in the main events along with other guys like DDP, Arquette, Russo, and Nash holding the title for like a week.

    That's not exactly a killer main event scene, but as the old stars either sat at home or left what choice did WCW have? The last few world title reigns in any failed promotion are always awful because the promotion has nobody credible to put the belt on. Maybe if they stuck with a guy like Benoit or Jericho or Raven they could've made something credible out of them.

    I mean, they did at least TRY to put the belt on Benoit, but he left the next day.

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  113. He took less money from WWF to work more dates because of the potential of a more substantial push.

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  114. Sting was a real star WCW built.

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  115. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:37 PM

    ^ I am so sick of hearing that excuse. You know damn well it was Braun, the Leprechaun.

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  116. Buck was awesome.

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  117. From the late 80's, and so damaged by then that his drawing power was questionable. See: Flair (WCW KILLED the old Mid-Atlantic area over the years...), Luger, etc...


    Bischoff was 110% full of shit when he made his "only three people in this room have drawn a dollar" remark, but by 2000 the number of people in WCW capable of "drawing a dollar" probably wasn't even three anymore.

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  118. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:38 PM

    You forgot The Genius, who was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to not work.

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  119. They could have signed The Rock in 1999, and they still die.

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  120. Its the fucking Expos, they would've lost down the stretch anyways.

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  121. He was ok for what he was (simple brawler gimmick), he just didn't seem to fit in with all those huge names. So it was a pretty big push for him.

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  122. It was the superplex that retired Steamboat, right? Scott didn't exactly clarify that

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  123. WCW was painted into a corner no matter what. The contracts were abhorrent, but had Vince been able to bring in any of Hogan, Hall, Nash, Flair, Sting, etc. it would've torpedoed WCW.
    They kept their biggest stars, looked at them as a sunk cost and fought on. That was the only thing they could do, short of Turner not merging and paying The Rock $25 million to head south.

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  124. That is true, I always tell myself "Atlanta was comfortably in the Wildcard, so their pitching/experience would have gotten the better of the Expos in 6 games in the NLCS.". Makes it easier to cope that way.

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  125. Twice, according to Wiki. Kane chokeslammed him once, and MVP beat the crap out of him once.

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  126. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:42 PM

    Yeah, the brand-new face of WCW, the only draw in the company, and star of a fairly successful syndicated TV series putting over a heel on a free TV show was not happening. The DQ was a good call.

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  127. Not even a team now anyways

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  128. Actually according to Death of WCW they could've had everyone work for free at one point and it still would've lost money. The PPV revenues were brutal and they lost money due to a variety of other stupid decisions not even related to the talent.

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  129. Hey, they don't call him the Genius for nothing...

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  130. The tragedy was how fast that Expos team imploded... would have made the late 90's a VERY fun time to be an NL East fan if they'd stayed intact.

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  131. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:44 PM

    Favorite Hotline story was in like early 1995 (with Flair away in "retirement"). Mean Gene was all "Folks. The sad news in in, we are still in shock. A beloved, blonde haired former champion that we all came to know and love has passed away." It was of course Ray Stevens. The Hotline did record numbers that weekend.

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  132. One of the most forgotten moments of the '94 strike: Frank Thomas's shot at immortality cut short. That was a season for the ages.

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  133. I remember it being an "innocent-looking skin the cat" attempt that was off just enough, and it jarred something loose in Steamboat.

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  134. I count Sting as an NWA guy, but the distinction is hard to make sometimes.

    So yeah, Sting and Goldberg. Not enough to keep a major promotion afloat for 15 years.

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  135. Bunkhouse Buck was the shit as a apart of Col. Parker's Stud Stable.

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  136. Damn, that's low.


    But Ray actually passed away in 1996.

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  137. Best part is, they recovered and were in the playoff hunt until the final weekend in 1996... Which led to ANOTHER FIRESALE.



    Then they actually got good again around 2002-2003... and BYE BYE VASQUEZ AND VLADY. *sigh*

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  138. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:47 PM

    Yeah, I edited right after. Got Flair's sabatical confused with the date. But that was pretty low. There's tons of Scheme Gene stories but allegedly Hotline profits rose from $300,000 (pre-Gemne) to $3 Mil at WCW's peak.

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  139. WCW was already dying in 1999. By the end of 1997 the inmates were fully running the asylum. Sting's career was killed at Starrcade 1997 by Hogan and Goldberg's career was killed at Starrcade 1998 by Nash. You can't kill off your two top babyfaces at your biggest PPV of the year two years in a row and expect fans to stick with you.

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  140. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontMay 29, 2014 at 2:48 PM

    So what I think I'm getting from all this is you weren't a fan of Hogan in WCW at this point in time?

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  141. Damn, that is pretty low.

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  142. Kevin Nash has said the PPV revenues at one point were diverted into Turner Home Entertainments books instead of WCW's. Thus WCW never saw a dime of PPV revenue which is why the books were so absurdly in the red.

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  143. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:49 PM

    I liked when they'd tease "you've heard the rumors, a top international star and major champion" weas entering WCW who had "flown the coop" from "that other company" and it would be a guy that had been on WCW TV already for like 8 days and left the WWF many months prior.

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  144. It happened on 2/16/98, but according to the Slobberknocker Central recap on rspw.com it was more angle than match.

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  145. Yeah right in the small of the back, not as vicious looking as say Rick Rude's bump off the stage in Japan while catching Sting but it did the damage.

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  146. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:51 PM

    I loved it because my TERRIBLE 1994 Phillies team got to technically retain the National League Title by... count-out? "As we all know, a baseball team can only lose a title by a season actually finishing."

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  147. WCW didn't die because of something that happened in 1997.

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  148. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 2:52 PM

    That Expos team was dead nasty. Like the shit-to-amazing Phillies team the year before.

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  149. I just read that in Ventura's voice and ended it with "Gorilla."

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  150. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontMay 29, 2014 at 2:54 PM

    Honest question because as I've read into it I'm not an expert on the subject : if WCW did everything right and was making money and beating the WWF (let's say in this alternate universe Mystique shoots Austin) after the AOL merger would they have still sold WCW?

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  151. If you asked me to put odds on "Is that statement true or false?", I'd give you 50/50 either way.


    True: It's the kind of thing corporations do to either hide a "favored" division's troubles, or to discredit an "unwanted" division. Usually legal, always scummy.


    False: Kevin Nash, ladies and gents. He's not the worst liar by any stretch, but calling him "reliable" is... not wise.

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  152. That Cubs team that one year that could be any year they were successful was dead nasty.

    The Expos are cursed, this is a fact. And this ain't a Red Sox curse which is just waiting endlessly for the punchline, this is a Cubs and/or Cavaliers curse. It won't fucking die.

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  153. Why would Nash lie about that? In fact, I can't remember any lies of his from his various shoots.

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  154. Agreed. Simply because with no Ted Turner to cheerlead them, the suits at AOL/TW think they can find cheaper programming that can make more profit.


    It would be entertaining to see them proven wrong, but that wouldn't stop WCW's sale. The potential differences are:


    1: Would AOL/TW even give a fuck about getting "max value" out of the sale... and if so:


    2: Would someone make a "Godfather deal", one that Vince would not be willing to match?


    If both are YES, then WCW ends up on some other channel come 2001, but still in the game however. If EITHER is a NO, then nothing changes.

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  155. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontMay 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    Very true but if they kept going in that direction of building up new stars like Jericho, Benoit (sorry), Eddie, DDP, Booker, etc and maybe even snatched up the star of Ready to Rumble John Cena do they stand a better chance down the line? Or no matter how profitable they were WCW was always doomed by the aol merger?

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  156. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontMay 29, 2014 at 3:00 PM

    That's sad.

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  157. Even if WCW was hot, they would have never let it get on another channel and beat them. They would have just sold it Vince knowing he'd fold it.

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  158. Thomas, Williams, Griffey, Bagwell, Gwynn, Maddux... so many career years.

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  159. That would have been lawsuit central, if another company made a fair offer.


    ...And a PR DISASTER, something along the lines of Vince's desperation ads to the Turner stockholders... except this would have some real bite.

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  160. That's why it's 50/50, and not straight into the Sleaze Bullshit bin. Because he is, for a wrestler, fairly reliable on most things.

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  161. I doubt any other cable channel would know about it until after it was done.

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  162. Off topic, but where's Farva been?

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  163. Dead in a ditch somewhere.

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  164. You don't think Bischoff would be SCREAMING to the high heavens? Because I'm thinking he'd use any and all contacts he had/has to make AOL/TW think long and hard before signing the company away to its "competition".

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  165. Planning the assassination of Punk and AJ?

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  166. What could he really do though?

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  167. God that was nasty

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  168. Important Doctor work?

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  169. If FOX (or anyone else) would come out and say "We have two/three hours for WCW on Monday Night", and Bischoff/Fusient is offering that "Godfather deal"... how does that look to the shareholders at AOL/TW if they say "Fuck you, we're selling to Vince at his price."?


    "Bad" WCW was still "worth" $60 million, with TV. If "Good" WCW is worth $90 million (or more), has a "secured" TV slot elsewhere, and Vince is saying "Nope, I'm not going past (much less than $90 million)"... I'd think the execs might not be so fast to sign Vince's deal.

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  170. 94 Hogan is one thing, but christ 95 Hogan is on another level. Just watch the WW3 match in 95 when Savage wins and Hogan throws such a pathetic cry baby hissy fit

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  171. Why would Eric have Fusient behind him if WCW isn't technically for sale is my point.

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  172. That's pretty much what did happen, here's an old Reddit thread that discusses the sale and many of the very shady shenanigans that went about around it.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/1jza61/the_virtually_unknown_story_about_how_the_wwf_may/

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  173. I wonder if Abey getting into the Top 5 was too painful.

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  174. AverageJoeEverymanMay 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM

    Fucking chickens

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  175. WCW falling apart in 1999-2000 was a combination of the bad contracts and the constant money loses. Whenever the show was switched back from 3 hours to 2, that really hurt the bottom line because all of a sudden sponsers that were not getting the exposure they paid for (both in terms of the falling ratings and there being 2/3 of the add spots as there were before) and so they had to run a ton of make goods for the advertisers (basically giving them free ads to make up for the losses).

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  176. It certainly didn't help. I'd say they were already dead by the time the Radicalz left, but if they had stuck around, a Benoit/Guerrero series for the World Title would have drawn interest from Hardcore fans. More than Luger/Hogan and Flair/Funk for the 100th time at Superbrawl.


    Of course, there's no guarantee that's what would have happened if they had stayed.

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  177. Maybe it led him to act like a petulant child, and quit.

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  178. Probably. But there might have been other buyers than the WWE.

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  179. I pointed this out below, the DQ is fine but the attack angle just to set up the dq is nuts. It just makes Flair look weak, and now Hogan can't draw with him.


    But Flair getting the belt back to lose it again to Hogan at Havoc and then finally, one more end-all-be-all Flair/Hogan match at Starrcade is a license to print money.

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  180. They even copied the 80s WWF stories with the Hogan/Andre title controversy and Macho winning the title at WMIV vs the Hogan vs Giant controversy with Savage winning World War 3 for the title.

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  181. Yes. He boosted ratings & buyrates and made shedloads of money.


    The problem with WCW was they had a vast gulf between main event & midcard that few people were ever allowed to cross, with the end result they were still running Hogan vs Flair main events in 2000.

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  182. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontMay 29, 2014 at 3:36 PM

    I would have assumed after Punk assassinated Punk he would just take AJ as his prize.

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  183. Bischoff would know "something" was up.


    Remember, we're nott changing that WCW would be for sale... but if WCW doesn't nosedive in 99-00, it's "desirability" would have been much stronger to any other company/network.


    Getting a GUARANTEED 4+ rating every Monday night, like clockwork? I don't know any cable company that would turn that down. And for AOL/TW to even try to sell to Vince, they'd have to file enough paperwork to give Eric, or anyone else, time to make a counteroffer.


    I use Bischoff because he had some sort of contacts to get funding for "BAD" WCW, up until the TV deal was yanked. A "Good" WCW would, as I mention above, have that "alternative" TV outlet available and willing to back any buyer.


    -----


    Here's another potential interesting player: USA. They're losing the WWF, sure... but if WCW is still battling them for #1, maybe USA sees it as a "win-win".


    USA keeps the (or a) "#1" promotion around (remember, they didn't want ECW because it WASN'T #1), and is willing to try to help WCW over the top, because any success WCW has will make USA look that much better in the long run.


    Yeah, it's all in the "fantasy" realm at best... but honestly, WCW's entire existence was "fantasy" from the start. (Turner being the "money mark", the losses up until the NWO, those two WILDLY profitable years, then the dramatic nosedive)

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  184. He's the cerebral assassin. He assassinates cerebrums with a sledgehammer.

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  185. How he finished the match and win the International Title no less is a mystery for the ages. I know Rude was tough but damn.

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  186. And for those looking at RAW's current numbers... WCW not dying might have kept a fair number of fans around, to where the two companies would still be splitting that much larger "pie"

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  187. Steamboat's match with Jericho at Backlash was pretty awesome.

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  188. CruelConnectionNumber2May 29, 2014 at 3:41 PM

    The only time Sting drew was in WCW (1997). His peak of popularity came as a totally new character WCW (or technically, Crow creator James O'Barr) created. I'd call him a WCW guy.

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  189. Flair as the Corporate champion against Austin would have been so huge until the eventual Flair face turn. Fun to think about.

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  190. Billy1961? What make one copy others handles and chade the real person around the net making comments that expose too much knowledge and evidences the obsession that drives you to do so so many times in so many places, What is this syndrome?
    You already are 15% of the posters on Craigslists forums lol
    Kenzz look up that name on craigslist and you will pretty much only see his posts over the last 6 yrs, the funniest/saddest part is every Xmas he is online ! on Craigslist non stop as if another day!

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