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QOTD 165: “Politics is the art of postponing decisions until they are no longer relevant.”

I saw the above quote today while browsing through quotes because I'm a geek, and couldn't help but think of Triple H and Daniel Bryan, and how while Bryan got his moment at Wrestlemania, the shenanigans surrounding it, before and after, made the whole shebang feel like a pyrrhic victory. 

Which in turn got me thinking about the thing we all care about here: How much Triple H is a political jerkface, or so we think. It's a strange situation where it's clear he cares about 'the business', wants it to succeed, and is willing to bleed, humiliate himself, hold down others, and generally say and do whatever it takes to ensure the company does what HE thinks is right.

Similarly, it seems most modern-day superstars are yes men. They're happy to have the gig and do whatever the bosses tell them because it's the best way to guarantee themselves a paycheck. However, it's also been made abundantly clear by folks that Paul Heyman that the WWE is actively looking for people who are willing to stick up for themselves in a direct way - instead of bitching on twitter or through passive aggressive means.

Therefore:

What's your arm-chair quarterback view of professional wrestling politics? How do you play (and win) WWE - and therefore Triple H's sports entertainment Game Of Thrones? 


The most important thing I ever learned about corporate politics is that a firm handshake, eye contact, and an assertive but friendly attitude will get you everywhere. So I wonder what the general attitude is by professional wrestlers, who are in a sense actors - they're in a creative business, and often times creative people are introverted and don't like to ruffle feathers.

I had an audition to be a XL clothing model today (shut up), WHILE thinking about this quote, WHILE thinking about this QOTD, and ended up putting on a very light, Triple H 'persona' where I answered questions in a such a way that made it seem like my responses were their ideas all along while subliminally campaigning for the gig by getting the folks measuring me / having me try on clothes / taking my pictures to agree that the models they currently use look absolutely nothing like the people that shop at the store - and even better, likely know about as much about clothing as I do - which is zip, so I'd be able to provide them feedback from a customer perspective that 'actual' models and clothing people probably wouldn't be able too.

THIS is where I think Triple H succeeds and others fail. If I had to guess, his genius isn't that he's a force of nature that tells folks how it's going to be, he instead gets people to believe what HE wants is the best idea for business. The most infamous story is the "We make him do business" quote from the Montreal screwjob. I doubt Triple H said "Hey lets just ring the bell and get Shawn out of there!" but instead planted the seeds for the plan Vince and Co. came up with.

See also: The Stone Cold Podcast with The Big Show where Stone Cold didn't want to job to the Big Show and following a five minute conversation with Vince, the result of the match was changed. It was a calm conversation that didn't result in shouting or bitching and moaning, and Stone Cold got what he wanted.

It seems the best way to get what you want in the WWE is to assert yourself in a way that doesn't seem selfish or outlandish. It's sort of like that scene in The Dark Knight where The Joker convinces Harvey Dent to turn into a bad guy by simply talking to him in a calm, understanding, compassionate manner. More flies with honey than with oil, ya know?

Comments

  1. The best way to talk to anyone about anything is to be calm and leveled. Shouting at the top of your lungs is a horrible way to go about getting what you want, particularly from your boss. I can't tell you how many times I've been able to get what I wanted at work just by bringing it up in a casual manner during a conversation.

    With Triple H specifically, as Paul noted, I think where he's so smart is how he goes about getting what he wants. "That's a good idea; I really like it. You know what we should also do?" That sorta thing.

    As it concerns doing jobs, I think sometimes it's all about what the wrestler's argument is. For example, Austin refused to lose the I-C title to Rock, because he said it didn't make sense for him to lose the I-C title, then go to the World title picture. Whether you think that logic is sound or not, it worked.

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  2. I think the politics in wrestling are fascinating. Especially how it seems like WWE has stamped it out. Very rarely will you ever hear a story of guys politicking.

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  3. I will go all Bill The Butcher on everyone at WWE HQ

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  4. Triple H.
    Hulk Hogan.
    Kevin Nash.
    Dusty Rhodes.
    Shawn Michaels.


    the end.

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  5. Speaking of politics, what is the deal with Drew McIntyre? It was alluded to in this week's RAW recap that he did something 3 years ago that he's still paying for.

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  6. I like wrestling politics when it works out for well for guys I'm a fan of like punk and Cena.

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  7. There is nowhere to go anymore because the WWE created a monopoly. Once you have enough saved, you can quit when you are fed up

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  8. I am the political master of The BoD and I will take over the blog. I can moderate comments and post at will. The era of Bayless is upon us

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  9. And if that fails , your Tony Garea-like mastery of the dreaded headlock will conquer all!

    KNEEL BEFORE BAYLESS!

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  10. Your_Favourite_Buck_NastyMay 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM

    b/c hhh

    /thread

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  11. Your_Favourite_Buck_NastyMay 27, 2014 at 4:03 PM

    "mastery of the dreaded headlock"


    what about the mastery of the headed dreadlock?

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  12. Your_Favourite_Buck_NastyMay 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

    "what is the deal with Drew McIntyre"

    the name of that seinfeld ep would be "the chosen one"

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  13. Mitch, The GodfatherMay 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

    He was going to have to lose it some time.

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  14. Stranger in the AlpsMay 27, 2014 at 4:08 PM

    Meh to politics. Just put some wrestling on my TV that i can enjoy. I don't care who is brown nosing and who is being buried. Good quality matches and I'm happy. If Roman Reigns didn't shake Kevin Nash's hand properly, that's just stupid shit to me.

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  15. You should flex those muscles and ban Scott from posting

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  16. The Joker isn't a great comparison given that he first used the oil to blow up Dent's girlfriend and half of Dent's own face and then used the honey by talking to him in the hospital; had he tried to convince Dent before the oil, Dent would have brushed him off.


    As for playing WWE politics, being friends with the people in power seems to help, as does having power and/or crowd popularity in the first place: the examples cited in the post and the first few comments are Austin, HHH, Punk, and Cena. I like Sheamus, but would he have gotten a chance had he not become workout buddies with HHH? Playing nice with the agents probably helps, too, so that your matches get good reports. The making the boss think he came up with the idea is effective, but you need to be able to get the boss to listen in the first place.


    How much access do the regular guys/gals have to Vince/HHH so they could "assert [themselves] in a way that doesn't seem selfish or outlandish?" Being married to the head of creative (and being generally viewed as having a keen mind for the business) provided HHH with access to the power structure that most talent will never have. It's possible the Zigglers and Ryders act as they do as their first option, but perhaps they are also frustrated when their less outlandish attempts (e.g. having fun to watch matches) are dismissed.


    Does WWE really want people with political power when their message generally seems to be: you are replaceable, the brand sells, not you (basically, Stephanie's "we built this" promo a few weeks back)?

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  17. Would it be the domestic disturbance incident McIntyre and then-wife Taryn Terrell had at a hotel that resulted in her termination?

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  18. If you think about it, Warrior never lost the IC title. He beat Hogan and gave it up. If Hogan won, he probably would have done the same thing, so either way, the IC title was up for grabs after WM 6.

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  19. This seems like a lot of thought put into a show where a midget dressed up as a bull acts hurt when his costume tail is ripped off.

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  20. HHH may do that, but he also can just present his own position by going against what another person suggested/what was already decided, but often couching it in an utterly selfish explanation that make some sense (even if it doesn't necessarily make more or even as much sense as the original plan): one of the ex-writers (Mates, I think) described how RVD was supposed to get the new Raw title in 2002 when Brock became Smackdown exclusive.


    According to Mates, RVD was supposed to get the new Raw belt right away. Then, HHH said (reasonably) "it is more of a heel move to be given a new title" (the plan may have been for RVD to win it in a match), so HHH got the title. "Let me work with him so I can really make him." Then, it was "well, it won't mean as much if I lose the title right away." Then it became "I'm not sure he's ready" (which, given RVD's past and what he did when he beat Cena a few years later, is also reasonable).


    You can be calm and levelheaded, but if you aren't in a position where the bosses will listen to you, it doesn't matter.

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  21. I think it was that she was beating him up in public, which made her look like a bitch and him look like a pussy or something.

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  22. Now that would be interesting.

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  23. Ah the "Chosen One".....

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  24. Unless you're Ryder....

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  25. Needs more poop Meekin, needs more poop...

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  26. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 27, 2014 at 4:40 PM

    What I have learned as a wrestling fan is: Never apply wrestling to any other aspect of life. It's pure escapism. Once you try applying it to real life, the success rate is very low. Even on the business side of things.

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  27. Then I would get banned

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  28. Mostly the same way that you win any political game. Make friends, build support, and associate with the right people even if you don't really like them all that much on a personal level.


    Never mistake yourself for being so good at your job that you don't need to play nice, even with the people who may not be as good as you.


    Learn how to influence people without just bludgeoning them with your (clearly correct!) opinion.


    Play along with established customs.


    That'll get you at least half way.

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  29. To be fair, I had no interest in seeing him in that position. Outside of the cool entrance thing, I could give two fucks about him.

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  30. Whenever I don't think about the potential politics in wrestling, the more I enjoy the product.
    Except lately. These shows would have been awful if wrestling had its own utopia.

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  31. You must like it then when they pull ribs about shaking hands on the show then!

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  32. If that Seth Mates story is even 20% true it makes me hate hhh even more than I already did.

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  33. Honestly hhh was dull, paint by the numbers, solid hand. It's no suprise that as he's gained more power the WWF has become a duller more cookie cutter product. Honestly I hope this network thing is a catastrophic failure, just because an ex wrestler wouldn't survive a whole scale corporate restructuring.

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  34. Interesting! I thought it was just a straight up western. That sounds pretty cool. I'll pick it up on my next trip to the comic store (along with Sex Criminals, which I've heard nothing but good things about).


    Elephantmen is one of my favourite comics these days. To describe it is kind of tough, but I'll try:


    In the future, there was a huge war involving brainwashed mutant animal-human hybrids (aka: Elephantmen, which are made up of various Africa-based animals). After the war, they're rehabilitated and introduced into society. That's where most of the comic dwells, though there's a great prequel volume (Volume 0: Armed Forces) that depicts parts of the war.


    The comic deals heavily with racism and classicism through the elephantmen. Should they be allowed to hold power (like owning a large corporation)? What about sexual or marital relations with a human? Does anyone care if one of them dies? How many still suffer from PTSD or residual brain-washing?


    I always describe it as Ninja Turtles meets Blade Runner. Art duties cycle through different artists, which I would normally hate, but it's mostly consistent. When it's not, the art really suits the story. The art's also a bit cheesecake in its portrayal of women, but give that it's meant to be sci-fi pulp, it's a little understandable. Plus, the female characters themselves are written INCREDIBLY well.

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  35. "couldn't help but think of Triple H and Daniel Bryan, and how while Bryan got his moment at Wrestlemania, the shenanigans surrounding it, before and after, made the whole shebang feel like a pyrrhic victory."


    Jesus fucking Christ. The guy beat Triple H, Batista and Randy Orton in one night to win the unified WWE World Heavyweight International Big Gold Title on the biggest show of the year. It was a win.


    Did the shit that happened the last two months suck? Yes, but it was the start of new battles, not the result of the one at WrestleMania XXX. It wasn't a Pyrrhic anything. It was a win.


    Now, what was the fucking question?

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  36. LOL exactly! Bryan got the ultimate rub.

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  37. I think I may have finally snapped a little...

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  38. Meekin will make you do that.

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  39. It's a shame, too. I always try and defend Paul.

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  40. Sometimes it is impossible.

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  41. TJ - Sandow rapping on Main Event was more entertaining than 3 plus hours of Raw last night....

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  42. Looks like mini-Brodus Clay

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  43. He didn't get to defeat Flair in the same night, though - BURIAL.

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  44. I even think the Flash show looks okay, aside from the fact that the dude playing Wally looks to be in grade school.

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  45. ...


    ...


    ...


    Sigh.

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  46. It also took him near 50 minutes to beat all three guys combined. SHAME ON WWE FOR POLITICS!

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  47. Red-headed Wally? That dude is gone and may not be back for a while.


    Half Black Wally? Say hello to your new best friend!

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  48. I should just realize this is a losing battle and move on, shouldn't I?

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  49. You speak wisely. Good people get fired all the time cause they can't/won't play ball. That's the biggest lesson to be learned.

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  50. Yes, he's the BoD's TNA...

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  51. AND Bryan had to hit Triple H with the sledgehammer! AND HE BEAT UP A WOMAN by diving through the ropes and connecting with Triple H & Steph!

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  52. Monsoon: What are you looking at Brain?
    Heenan: Shut up Monsoon, I see some bird looking at me...
    < long silence >
    Heenan: Never mine, she's a pigeon

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  53. Hey, just like TNA though, he has his moments.

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  54. Geoff Johns' run on Flash when he was writing Wally was so fucking good, I don't know why he felt the need to single-handedly dismantle the DC Universe so it could be a "What If Image Made the Silver Age?"

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  55. He's nowhere near as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I'm just really sick of the "Daniel Bryan's WrestleMania win should have been better" conversation. I thought it went away.

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  56. I wish WWE had some "accidental" nudity every now and then. Stuff to make it seem realistic. You're telling me that since 2006, no one's pants have been pulled down? Gone are the days of Rude, Michaels, Flair giving the crowd what they paid to see in exposing their bare buttocks for a sheer moment. Maybe have Brie or Nikki flash some nip during an Irish whip. Perhaps a Sunset Flip goes affray and Natalya accidentally pulls down the trousers of her rival Tamina Snuka. It would bring more of a sense of realism to the action.

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  57. Because absolute power corrupts absolutely. "Forever Evil" wasn't a story about bad guys winning and taking over. It's a title detailing Geoff Johns taking control of the DC Universe.

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  58. My only argument is that it wouldn't have happened at all if Punk hadn't left.

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  59. The mostly awful tv from July on, as well as bringing back hhh as a major player is a big price to pay for a work rate dude to get the wwe strap IMO.

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  60. I beat Ansem-Riku!

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  61. How many times?

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  62. Alright. I'm down with that

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  63. He didn't think it was good enough?

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  64. I believe it took me 5 attempts. I am back at Transverse Town.

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  65. WWE TV always sucks in the summers, and Triple H would have made himself a major player no matter what.

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  66. I haven't read DC in years so I know nothing of the storyline behind Forever Evil, but if you were to tell me someone had written a webcomic about Geoff Johns with "absolute power corrupts absolutely" as the tagline I would be inclined to believe you.

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  67. I Didn't WWECW hold a game of strip poker once?

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  68. You mean authority figures don't go into comas from being lightly grazed by sweaty guys?

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  69. Yeah, led to nothing but thongs and hand covered boobs.

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  70. Yeah that's true.

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  71. How shocked were you when Sora basically killed himself?

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  72. I laughed. Definitely didn't expect that in a Disney game. How much longer do I have left in the game?

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  73. If you go back and watch the match you can see hhh taking liberties with the kids neck.

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  74. If nothing else, I miss the early Raw model where they swapped announce teams halfway through the show. Why not open the show with, say, Cole, Mathews, and Regal (or one of their newbies) and then at hour two (or the hour and a half point) bring in JBL and Lawler? it'll at least mix up the show a bit.

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  75. TOY COMPANY EXEC : "No."

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  76. You have to finish up Hollow Bastion, level up if you must, then have fun in the End of the World.

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  77. You know, I wasn't expecting anything to come of it going in, and I was still disappointed when the poker game ended.

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  78. Not to mention make sure you finish all the side missions. Or did you have to do that BEFORE Hollow Bastion? I took a break a while back and haven't gone back to the game, and it's been 11 years or so since I beat the game...

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  79. Sounds pretty fun. I just wish they'd release 2.5 soon.

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  80. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)May 27, 2014 at 6:36 PM

    He can't. As a boxer his hands are considered lethal weapons.


    We all know that Floyd would have beaten the brakes off TI. As Floyd said, "He needs to get his bitch." because Tiny is chasing after Floyd.

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  81. I still have to do some Trinity's as well as finish the 100 Acre Woods.

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  82. I need to find an artist and start writing now!

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  83. Oh, of course, your bosses have to be willing to listen to you; that's a given. But I think sometimes a calm, reasoned voice goes further than that of a screamer.

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  84. Fucking 100 Acre Woods.

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  85. I've heard something along those lines before, so it sounds right.

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  86. Well, you still have Chain of Memories to go though and 358 Days/2 to play, you should still be occupied for awhile.

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  87. Kinda feel weird playing a Winnie the Pooh level...

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  88. Yeah, that's true.

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  89. You no like Winnie the Pooh?

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  90. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)May 27, 2014 at 6:37 PM

    I agree the reverse dynamic of Batman having the jokes while Robin was the serious one was refreshing. But they killed Damien (who was the most interesting character to come along in a long time)


    Like I said I liked that SpOck had common fucking seng. Fuck getting up at 3AM. Call the cops.

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  91. I wasn't a fan of that part of the game.

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  92. Even though it's Disney, he does not fit the tone of the game.

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  93. I'm not sure any man should trust a person who uses Elmo as his avatar...


    Seriously, though, what kind of stuff do you do?

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  94. It's a funny little side level though. Nothing too bad.

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  95. Yeah, that was one part I didn't really get, either. I didn't understand how it was supposedly a Pyrrhic victory for Bryan, because, as noted, we were getting HHH on TV, no matter what happened at WM.

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  96. People say it made Pooh depressing.

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  97. I don't know how old you are (not a judgement or anything of that nature), but once I realized comics repeated itself, that one writer ignored another's take, the soap opera-ness of it all, I really had trouble "following" comics like I used to. I pretty much pick and choose what I buy nowadays. If something sounds cool, I'll grab it. But NOTHING is an auto-buy or on my pull list anymore.

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  98. Kingdom Hearts is the least Disney game Disney ever released.

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  99. elmomachete.tumblr.com, check the "cartoons" link. So yeah, mostly cartoons. Did a webcomic with my buddy for a while, but I do superheroes in a blatant ripoff DCAU style sometimes too.

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  100. Dolph Ziggler beat Sami Zayn in a dark match tonight. Would've been nice if they put it on TV.

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  101. I'm actually not so sure about Vince's producing being the issue. Take somebod like Tazz. He was regarded as one of the top announcers when he worked for WWE (under Vince's production), yet he completely flopped when he was left to his own devices in TNA. There are very few people who left WWE and did a better job announcing elsewhere.

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  102. It's like the troublesome nephew that Disney doesn't feel like talking about a lot.

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  103. Awesome. I'll check it out tonight.

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  104. 3 is coming out this year. I wish it was for PS3. I might have to buy a PS4 just to get it.

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  105. It does feel kind of depressing lol

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  106. Kingdom Hearts 3 and the new Batman game guarantee that I will buy a PS4 sometime this year.

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  107. Yes.
    "Who's Sami Zayn John?"

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  108. I have to finish up Asylum, City, and then Origins. PS4's library is getting stacked.

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  109. Every character in the Hundred Acre Wood is a depressing character at its root. The only one I don't find depressing? Eeyore. He's pretty realistic as a depressive person, but he has ridiculously supportive friends. Good for him.

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  110. They'd all be begging Dixie for a job or offer to pass out flyers for TV team.

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  111. http://www.deviantart.com/art/Kingdom-Broken-Hearts-124535159

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  112. He was the first one to come to mind when El Torito's tail was ripped off.

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  113. Wait...seriously?

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  114. TJ: Anyone know the story behind this show, NJPW Starrcade 92? http://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=3121

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  115. Upvote because I had laugh from your joke.

    But it did make me think of something. Disney is still able to get mickey mouse toys made even though miramax might show some titties or bush. Why couldn't wwe serve everyone? Stuff for kids. Stuff for teens. Stuff for adults. Stuff for old people. Stuff for blacks. Stuff for Hispanics. Stuff for gays. Stuff for the iwc? Really they could serve up any number of things.

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  116. I tried to avoid the negativity for a long time. He makes it hard.

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  117. NJPW always does there biggest show of the year on January 4th

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  118. I wish they'd serve up some tacos. Good ones, like.

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  119. NJPW and WCW ran a show together in 1991 and 1992. Jan 4th is New Japan's biggest show of the year.

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  120. I know all that, was wondering more about them using the Starrcade name.

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  121. I think it was just to American-ize the event.

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  122. Didn't they co-promote around that time?

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  123. I could go for some carnitas and chips and salsa too. Fucking starving too

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  124. Thanks, lemme know what you think. I just spammed a bunch of old shit a week or two ago, but you may have to go 5-6 pages deep to make sure you get some variety of style.

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  125. That's what I'm talkin' bout!

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  126. Looking up title histories and I see that Flair was doing 60 minute draws on house shows with Steamboat for the title IN 1994! Jesus Ric, get with the times dude.

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  127. Ah yes, the Irish Whip Nip Slip.

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  128. His 35 minute match with Steamboat at Spring Stampede 1994 was ****1/4.

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  129. Vader vs El Gigante and Ludwig Borga vs Scott Norton makes that show sound just fantastic

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  130. He could still work.

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  131. You need more than that?

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  132. Would WWE have footage of this show or was it strictly a NJPW joint? And did Scott ever rant on it?

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  133. Better they keep it as a dark until Zayn debuts

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  134. Disney is run by people who are smarter than Vince, though.

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  135. Miramax doesn't really exist anymore

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  136. Youtube has them up. WCW sold VHS copies of them.

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  137. Ric Flair: "Now that I got the book back, I'm going to book the exact same angles I did back in 1989 that didn't draw shit."

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  138. Disney doesn't own Miramax anymore.

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  139. They had already done it back in 91

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  140. Stick with what fails!

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  141. Scott never ranted on it. I'm not sure who owns the footage but I've seen the sting and muta vs Steiners match and its from the Japanese broadcast

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  142. If you're interested in a review of the show I'm sure Kevin Wilson from puroresu central has done one. I hate his reviews because he uses a 1 to 10 scale for a rating though

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  143. Sooo.. Where how would a C+ translate onto that scale?

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  144. OK well my point is an entertainment company can sell stuff to different demographics.

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  145. Divide by two and it's a 5-star scale.

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  146. Yea, but WWE is different than other entertainment companies.

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  147. *dies from brain aneurysm trying to do conversion*

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  148. Thread totally derailed.

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  149. Divide by zero and ERROR

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  150. Obviously not a Scott Steiner fan.

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  151. Subtract one from 80086 and get BOOBS.

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  152. I'm disappointed in the lack of thread activity tonight.

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  153. Boobies = RATINGS

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  154. I'm not so sure that he's using the same scale/criteria though

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  155. Add 135 and you've got boobies!

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  156. Feels like a Monday because of the 3 day weekend

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  157. The best part is that politics in wrestling is one of the most enduring, top discussions in the history of talking about wrestling.


    But when Meekin invites us to talk about it, we talk about literally anything else.

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  158. I have no hate for Flair.

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  159. QOTD suggestion : Which wrestler's gymbag would YOU shit in, and why?

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  160. That's fair to Flair.

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  161. I said that here the night after that show and had many downvotes. A lot of people were quite sure he was over like rover.

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  162. They think they are the same. I agree that they aren't but they can still sell stuff to different groups. Obviously they can't have nudity but they could market a more sexualized or violent show while running kids shows too.

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  163. I think each and every QOTD should be subtly related to poop.

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  164. Steph because I think that she may actually be the physical representation of the abstract concept of evil.


    Sin Cara because I really cannot stand lucha.


    X-Pac as a tribute to the master.

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  165. NXT Takeover and Impact!

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  166. Zac Gowen because I'm a bully and would find it funny

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  167. http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/479625-reaction-to-the-authority-in-wwe

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  168. Big Show just to see what his retaliation would be.

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  169. I don't see how that would work logistically.

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  170. Under no circumstances would I open the door to Big Show poop retaliation.

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  171. Not enough talent.

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  172. Saturday am show for kids, raw for everyone as it is now, smackdown for more hardcore fans like us (longer matches, guys like ziggler/zayn/whoever get more focus), Saturday late night show with ECW stuff (cat fight thongs, suck my balls bitch promos, crowds chanting rude shit)

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  173. Well true, but that's the wwes fault

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  174. Hold that 10 for Johnny B. BadMay 27, 2014 at 7:39 PM

    Late 2010 on Raw. Punk got injured, so he joined the commentary booth for a couple of months. Punk was fantastic. A lot like Jesse - a heel announcer who took the product seriously while still managing to be funny.

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  175. Wow the Canadians should fire this coach and goalie at the intermission

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  176. "But they speak French!" - Quebecers

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  177. I know jack shit about hockey but the Canadians goalie is garbage

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  178. Not really, no. Just been that kinda game.

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  179. Well if you like action this game is off the hook

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  180. No they shouldn't.

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  181. Tokarski. A good French name if ever there was one.

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  182. His first goal and his most recent goal were terrible man. Im no expert but he had his dick in his hand during that shit

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  183. Hold that 10 for Johnny B. BadMay 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM

    That's fantastic. The first thing I always think of is their side argument during the Hart-Perfect match, where Heenan, realizing he's losing the argument, blurts out "I heard your parents ran away from home." Monsoon: " Will you stop?!" Heenan: "I just heard that rumor."

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  184. Two good games plus I gotta finish up summerslam 1999. Made through the hardcore match last night. Left off at Foley and Jesse shooting the shit backstage

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  185. Guy was in the AHL this year for the season.

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