While I'm usually the graphic novel guy I came across this and thought it was just about the truest wrestling thing I've read in years and figured it needed to be shared.
The point Foley makes of the "people get tired of finding out . . ." perfectly sums up why I don't watch WWE anymore and haven't for two years.
Anyway here's the link
https://www.facebook.com/RealMickFoley/photos/a.150133228350157.28288.126269440736536/877930535570419/?type=1
The point Foley makes of the "people get tired of finding out . . ." perfectly sums up why I don't watch WWE anymore and haven't for two years.
Anyway here's the link
https://www.facebook.com/RealMickFoley/photos/a.150133228350157.28288.126269440736536/877930535570419/?type=1
Rider's burial was the final straw that broke my regular watching of Raw.
ReplyDeleteRaw 1000 was the last raw I watched in full
Who's the dude?
ReplyDeleteSo you were ok with everyone else that was booked like shit or buried but Ryder was the breaking point?
ReplyDeleteNot this shit again.
ReplyDeleteNo, thus FINAL straw.
ReplyDeleteI was sick to death of the product. Just indefensibly terrible TV. But I liked Ryder, liked his Youtube show and his midcard shtick.
His burial was so unnessessary and petty though. Felt like malice rather then the usual incompetence. When a show is actually making you angry, it's time to step away
It didn't bother me when Ryder got de pushed because although I enjoyed the character I wasn't all that interested in him. I don't usually get bothered by burials since every promotion ever has buried so many talented/over guys. But yeah Foley isn't saying anything that hasn't been said her thousands of times.
ReplyDeleteIf only more people were capable if that...
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty much a good summation of my apathy of the current product. Even if you don't like Ryder like I do, you can pretty much slot in any of your favorites that you've complained about being de-pushed/wasted/buried, and the point still works.
ReplyDeleteWell, even I couldn't just turn it off straight up.
ReplyDeleteI still watch the occasional ppv and stay up to date here on the blog
And this is exactly why I no longer care for the current product or invest in it like I did the older stuff.
ReplyDeleteRyder isn't a very good wrestler. But he did trailblaze the usage of social media in a way that WWE fully embraces now. However, it's blatantly obvious that the higher-ups thought Ryder was being too big for his britches and wanted to make an example out of him. He was one of several hot acts that WWE associated with Cena so Cena could get the heat (see also Lee, A.J.)
ReplyDeleteI said it before and I'll say it again: if Ryder ever gets released, he should take his 1.5 million social media followers and go right to TNA. He doesn't even have to wrestle for them, but he needs to take over the way they market the product. But he'd probably wrestle and TNA will slap the belt on him quicker than you can say "Eric Young." It wouldn't be as big of a deal as if he had jumped in 2011, but he would still make a stir.
Then again, it's probably why WWE won't release him.
I never cared for Ryder's gimmick or his work, but his burial was different because the message was so clear. Where I can't feel too bad for him... 2.5 years later, he's still churning away at WWE.
ReplyDeleteSo...(although I'm getting the drift from some comments) I was out of wrestling during the Ryder run. What exactly happened?
ReplyDeleteJohn cena and the rock could main event impact and it wouldn't draw a 2.0 there is no such thing as a stir with TNA. Having twitter followers does not equate to the jumping with you over to tna. He could make more money in pwg selling merchandise and being silly than in TNA.
ReplyDeleteAt least on BoD RAW there's the opportunity to reach that brass ring...although those Top 5 guys really do crowd the main event scene...
ReplyDeleteA guy with a goofy gimmick but very limited talent made a youtube show, a ton of bandwagon fans starting jumping on, he got a "mercy" push and a cup of coffee with the US title, then he got rightfully depushed, people have been crying over it for the following 3+ years. You're welcome.
ReplyDeleteTriple H posts on BoD, who knew?
ReplyDeleteI wish!
ReplyDeleteWhy was he "rightfully de-pushed"? He got over with the crowd...isn't that the whole purpose of being a wrestler on the show?
ReplyDeleteGotta keep an ounce of realism. I mean, Ricardo got cheered too. I still wouldn't picture him beating upper midcarders. Zach just doesn't look like he could beat anyone, and finisher looks like a joke.
ReplyDeleteI get that. I'm not a big fan of Ryder's but I think he worked hard to earn a spot to the point the fans cheered for him. If a guy gets over, WWE should be trying to cultivate him into something, not punish him for it.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have vehemently protested a push of his, I just remember that my exact reaction when he beat Dolph for the US title was "Good for him, I guess". Just never was a fan.
ReplyDeleteYep, It would just, for the millionth time, make TNA look extremely bush league for pushing a guy who wasn't good enough for WWE. (So that's probably exactly what would happen)
ReplyDeleteTo quote a post from awhile back in regards to Ryder, "that guy looks like a frat boy douche. So fuck that guy."
ReplyDeleteYeah...pretty much.
ReplyDeleteAnybody who didn't mark for Ryder thinks the Ruthless Agression era was WWE's finest.
ReplyDeleteYes, isn't the goal is to make money? If a guy's social media activities can make mney in merchandising, wouldn't you promote that?
ReplyDeleteThat era did have a lot of quality matches.
ReplyDeleteyep, there was lots of bad, but definitely some good stuff too.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the argument for either lack of talent or realism regarding his look. I'm not the president of his fan club or anything but he's muscular, tanned, head full of hair...isn't that what they tend to look for?
ReplyDeleteAnd no, he didn't have any stand-out matches besides the couple with Ziggler but neither did Edge until Kurt Angle came along. The guy had been a jobber for years, had his bright spot, and then immediately got shunted into a storyline where he looked like Kane's, Cena's, and Eve's bitch all at the same time, and then went back to being a jobber. Not exactly a real chance to shine.
This times like a million. Ryder was selling merchandise and drawing interest in the mid-card, which seems to be pretty damn hard to do with general apathy towards it from most people on here. The guy was over, end of story, and WWE said "No, we don't want him there, who gives a fuck what people want."
ReplyDeleteA majority of success in wrestling, it seems, is throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. If something sticks, you cultivate it. If Ryder had kept his mid-card push and stayed over, maybe you give him a pass at the main event and if he bombs, so be it. Not everyone has to be a tippy top guy; UFC has shown that a good undercard is important to continued success.
I never got this very limited talent deal. Hes better than most of the low-end guise on the roster and yet I saw way fewer complaints about guise like the PTP and Curtis Axel getting elevated above their station.
ReplyDeleteI was saying the same thing about that goofy shit that was sniffing the main event scene a little while ago. The lovechild of a hobo and hobbit. Danielson or something like that? (ohthatsdifferenthecanwork)
ReplyDeleteI do wish that there was an Infinite Crises scenario where people can see the universe that they booked because it'd be Dynamite Kid with the WWF title in '87 and that shitty worker Hogan would've been unemployed or jerking the curtain.
Oh man, once you and DBSM are done with your show-stealing Best of 5 series, you'll be SO buried.
ReplyDeleteThat's unfair.
ReplyDeleteCena vs Rock as the main event of Impact? Easily 2.5 at least!
To me, his 2 main moves are a running corner kick that looks like it's begging to concuss his opponents, and a sort of flying head scissors that looks ridiculously easy to counter (powerbomb, or stungun). And... That's all I know about his move set.
ReplyDeleteI'm just expressing what everyone's thinkin'!!!
ReplyDeleteI didn't care for Ryder. I actually thought he may have been mildly retarded (not that I dislike the mildly retarded...that came out wrong). I think his base was Cena's base, that being the kids. I don't see why you can't have a midcard act underneath Cena for that base. His crowd reactions alone should've gotten him longer success, and would've gotten him that success had the WWE produced the crowd reactions and not Zack himself.
ReplyDeleteHe actually had decent matches in WWECW with Christian, Goldust and Yoshi Tatsu that were ignored by everyone because WWECW. And that included Vince and the agents, which led to his moveset being toned down a bit on Raw. Not to mention Hawkins and Ryder was a dese tag team. He also had 2 far less stupid finishers (Knee-aided neckbreaker and Vertical Reverse DDT).
ReplyDeleteAlso, Ryder didn't have any matches really below bad on Raw. Like, he didn't blow spots left or right and stand there like a slug doing nothing.
I didn't mark for Ryder and I thought 90% of Ruthless Aggression was the drizzling shits.
ReplyDeleteBut, but... "nobody" wants to see Cena vs Rock!!!
ReplyDeleteBy no means do I think Impact ratings would go to 2.0. But he obviously does have a rabid fanbase (less so than 2011, of course) and people would tune in to see what they're doing with him.
ReplyDeleteOf course, this is TNA and they'll probably piss it away like they did with their largest TV audience ever on the very first Monday Impact.
shut up, meg mick
ReplyDelete"(So that's probably exactly what would happen)"
ReplyDeleteTNA is perfectly fine with looking bush league. This is the company that slapped their world title on Eric Young because he has similar facial hair to Daniel Bryan.
Have you been drinking? Sounds like you've been drinking. Kind of jealous actually...I'm at work.
ReplyDeleteSorry, what exactly was the Ruthless Aggression Era? Are we talking about the time period right after Rock and Austin left with HHH ruling RAW and Taker owning Smackdown?
ReplyDeleteDon't see what the two have to do with each other.
ReplyDeleteMick Foley has become the Keith Olbermann of wrestling. Even when I agree with him, he still comes off sounding like a complete asshole.
ReplyDeletePffttt, most of the people complaining about Ryder getting "buried" would be complaining about him being over-pushed and a mediocre in-ring worker, if in fact he had been pushed.
ReplyDeleteAlways remember, when it comes to smarks/fanboys you CANNOT WIN.
And I have nothing against Ryder, personally. He's a perfectly serviceable JTTS. But that's about it.
ReplyDelete"The Dude"? Am I the only one that can't keep up with how many people are "writing" here anymore, and who writes what?
ReplyDeleteThrice in a lifetime, baby!
ReplyDeleteTHIS!
ReplyDeleteHe's apparently the resident graphic novel guy.
ReplyDeleteAh the "Waiting For The Trade" guy... is that still a thin on here?
ReplyDeleteEvolution, Batista, Orton, Cena.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping he meant bob Ryder
ReplyDeleteRyder might be the most polarizing jobber ever and it's a weird dynamic. I mean, I know why people like VJ dislike him, but the rest seem to hate him because in their minds a bunch of smarks used to call for him to be world champion.
ReplyDeleteUm, aren't we still in that era?
ReplyDeleteI remember people bitching about Axel every single week- ESPECIALLY when he was the IC Champ.
ReplyDeleteI find Ryder to be "Standard Jobber" in appearance and talent, though not bad or anything. I see him as on The Miz' level (which isn't a high level, mind you). The "Woo WOO Woo!" thing makes me want to hurt him more than any other wrestler in history, though. Like, it makes me actually physically angry just to hear it.
ReplyDeleteOn this, we totally agree!
ReplyDeleteAnd on top of that, I was always sort of a Jersey Shore fan... Yet I still can't stand Ryder. Go figure!
ReplyDeleteWell, I think most of your hate comes from smark love.
ReplyDelete2003-2008
ReplyDeleteI do believe that most of the anger is not really "Zach Ryder deserves a push", but there's a lot of "ME ME ME! Why won't WWE listen to ME?!?? I wanna make a difference!!!"
ReplyDeleteWe need an "About" page with a paragraph or two about the guys who post here, just so we can reference it from time to time.
ReplyDeleteAlso, his theme music... Dear god....
ReplyDeleteIt starts with his catch phrase, which is perfectly acceptable, and the crowd pops.... Then... Some sort of "slow rock ballad" crap, which INSTANTLY kills the pop. Basically, after the first 2 seconds, it's the most uneffective and counterproductive theme music EVER.
Yes, but points for Night's comment anyway. Well done.
ReplyDeleteDespite what you think, the Dude always abides.
ReplyDeleteYep, they just "conveniently" forgot the small detail that Daniel had received a very solid push for the previous 2 years, beating lots of big names, and being rather well protected when it came to clean losses. All TNA saw was "Small guy with a beard is their world champ, let's do it too!"
ReplyDeleteFoley is in the Olbermann zone? That's...that's just sad to hear about The Hardcore Legend.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Ricardo get cheered because he got beat up. Kind of like Screech did on the episode of Saved By the Bell where he won the Miss Bayside Pageant
ReplyDeleteWhat the fuck does Woo woo woo mean anyway?
ReplyDeleteIf it came out wrong, you could have just deleted it and rephrased it right? You're not live on the air or anything.
ReplyDeleteThe best trajectory for Ryder would have been riding out the midcard wave and making cash off of him for a year while having him as Cena's buddy. Once Ryder's act got stale (believe me, it would have) have Ryder turn on Cena and get a few main events out of him.
ReplyDeleteLOL, Zach Ryder in a main event...
ReplyDeleteHey, if Miz and R-Truth can do it, so can Ryder!
ReplyDeleteOr Winona Ryder.
ReplyDeleteThere was a joke in there somewhere, but it fell flat. Not my best work.
ReplyDeleteHold on, YOU liked Jersey Shore?!
ReplyDeleteThat would of been a steal.
ReplyDeleteUmmm... no. lol
ReplyDeleteCena vs. Ryder...hmm. The two most followed guys in the WWE on Twitter/FB. I'd wager it would get a decent buyrate. Ryder heel would be similar to Robbie E. though.
ReplyDeleteYou say a paragraph, Meekin ends up writing five.
ReplyDeleteYou (don't) know it!
ReplyDeleteI feel like Ryder doing the whole "like me on Facebook... Follow me on twitter" bit on Z!TLIS ushered in the whole "let's shove social media down the fan's throats" on Raw. And instead of rewarding him with at least a consistent spot on tv, it's like they decided to banish him so people forgot he got himself insanely over via YouTube, fb, and twitter.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point of disliking WWE, if you're not going to subtly insult those who still watch it? Geez..
ReplyDeleteJust finished watching wwe vengeance. 2002...holy shit the main event is a bat shit insane-forgotten classic. ****1/2 for sure and one of the hottest last 7 minutes or so I've ever seen. I have never seen it before and really didn't know much about it. If you have the network watch that match.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely. how did anyone think that maintaining that theme is a good idea (especially considering his onscreen character)?
ReplyDeleteThere was a time when a new bill Simmons article-would be exciting to me because it was an enjoyable way to eat up a chunk of my work/school day. This is like the first time ever I saw the topic and didn't even bother skimming the article. Just clicked off grantland. Sad to say I think I'm done with him and grantland. Bill Barnwell is basically a poor mans old sxhool Simmons and this Zack Lowe makes too many mistakes in his x's and o's breakdowns that stick out too much for anyone who played the game. That's not a huge deal but he so obviously promotes a narrative that all players are making too much money and tries to get over the new CBA as some kind of fun to do roto league thing, trashing guys for making money and setting public perception about player salaries in a BLATANTLY obvious way of trading favors with team management for inside access and news along with whatever tickets and swag he gets too. The rest of the site is a shitty rip off of vice and the New Yorker. I'm out on that place
ReplyDeletebtw: if nothing else, Zack Ryders depush played a role in the push of Daniel Bryan. without the obvious "fuck you, you're not the guy we want" that Ryder (and the fans) got the backlash against Batista etc. might have been not as big.
ReplyDeletebut because the situation with Ryder demonstrated more than ever before how "stubborn" the WWE could be regarding who to push all of us (= the fans) realized that just cheering for Daniel Bryan could still not be enough for him to get his deserved main event spot.
I agree with most of this. I can't stand the people who cover entertainment or are looking out for social injustices. For a while, I wanted to give all the writers there a break, and I would just click on the article based on my interest (and not the author). But I have been burned repeatedly by whoever Wesley Morris and Molly Lambert are. Their stuff reads like angry college kids who refuse to fact check or explore counterarguments.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, Simmons has gotten worse. The guy used to have like a 90:10 hit:miss ratio. Now, he's 50:50. I don't know what happened to him. Spread too thin, maybe.
Cover entertainment at Grantland.com, I meant, for clarification purposes.
ReplyDeleteRyder should not be main eventing, but he worked as the goofy face friend of the main eventers in the midcard.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about that. It did contribute to the fans' mentality. Fans knew they now had to be just as stubborn. Between Ryder and Bryan, the WWE now has a combative relationship with its fans. It's practically morphed into experimental art at this point with this dynamic.
ReplyDeletebtw: if Ricardo had gotten the same reactions as Ryder he should have been pushed.
ReplyDeleteThis is just unjustified. I could go into every post and talk about how anti-smarks or anti-Meltzer folks would react to every hypothetical situation, but I don't because: 1. I'm sane. 2. It's beating a dead horse and really has no place because I'm making up the argument of my opposition in order to win some perceived argument.
ReplyDeleteWhy attack other fans? We all love the same thing.
I just don't see why the WWE thinks that's good business. What other entertainment venture prides in giving the middle finger to its fans?
ReplyDeleteWell, that and CM Punk's departure. If WWE had CM Punk to fall back on after the Batista return was botched, Bryan might've still ended up wrestling Sheamus at Mania or something equally as boring.
ReplyDeleteI kinda remember the two things happening at the same time. LIke the company decided to embrace social media a bit more, and Zach went CRAZY with it to the point it got him super over.
ReplyDeleteFor a B-level PPV, it would've been worth something. If fails, you discard it and move on. I don't think people would hype that as a SummerSlam main event or something.
ReplyDeleteI guess thats bothered so many of "us" - it didn't seem like the WWE was trying and just not succeeding (for example like their horrible attempt to do something with "Fandango-ing") but instead deliberately making Ryder look like an idiot (as you already wrote, it felt really mean-spirited).
ReplyDeleteWell, Miz and R-Truth couldn't really do it. I mean it was a thing that happened, but they were pretty terrible at it.
ReplyDeleteI thought Ryder was ahead of the curve (by a good 4-6 months) and really showed them the possibilities of it all... but I don't trust my memory at all on this.
ReplyDeleteBecause they're love is different and wrong, duh.
ReplyDeleteThe bible says a wrestling fan shalt lot lie in the same with with a superstar as it does with a jobber.
unfortunately I guess the number of companies doing that is growing instead of decreasing (for example: the whole deal with the Star Wars EU).
ReplyDeleteWas the last part of your post a criticism of Lowe or Simmons?
ReplyDeleteMy main problem with Simmons is that he just tries to take every fucking aspect of sports seems way to important. All the "Clubs" that he puts people into have gotten idiotic.
He's also really bad at covering any sport that isn't basketball. He's got no clue about baseball and there's too many other better options with football.
He would be way better than Robbie E
ReplyDeleteEh, while the story would have been boring, the match should have been fine.
ReplyDeleteI'd still smell a 5 minute squash.
ReplyDeleteBeat me to it.
ReplyDeleteThe team was cool though.
ReplyDelete:Ryder enters the 2010 Rumble match:
ReplyDeleteStriker:" And this is track 11 on WWE Music. This is a great song."
Plus links to WhatCulture.
ReplyDeleteSure, they have good chemistry. But I'd hate to think of the third "WrestleMania Trilogy" after Austin/Rock and Triple H/Undertaker would've been Bryan/Sheamus.
ReplyDeleteUnless you don't count the five minute Mania 27 match because it was on the pre-show or the Mania 28 match because it lasted 18 seconds.
Yeah, he's a decent guy.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the BoD!
ReplyDeleteMLB and NFL, which will have Sunday night games on the East Coast starting at 8PM so they can be broadcast in Prime Time for advertising even though it would be more fan-friendly to have games that are on a work night happen in the afternoon on the East Coast and do the 8PM starts in the earlier time zones.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of MLB, some of these games might be originally scheduled for 1PM on Sunday (the perfect time for baseball) and pushed back to 8PM for ESPN dollars.
Think about how many times the NFL has an 8PM game scheduled in the frigid, dead of winter in Boston, Buffalo or Green Bay (which isn't the eastern time zone, but would probably be warmer if scheduled for 1PM or even 4PM).
Of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how much pro sports screw over fans.
What's the problem with Star Wars EU? You can still read all the books and comics you want.
ReplyDeleteCome on, 8-11 isn't that bad.
ReplyDeleteThe goofy Jersey douchebag character would've run it's course, sure, but to just make him disappear after being over for a year was ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteNo you're right. WWE saw how many views Z!TLIS was getting and decided to hop on the bandwagon.
ReplyDeleteI'm willing to wager he's getting buried because the powers at be don't want to admit that goofball was ahead of the curve before the rest of the company was.
I was going to facetiously commend you on a strong counter-argument but it turns out that there's nothing I can say to that so...good job?
ReplyDeleteDid I Pay For It: No
ReplyDeleteHe's decent in the ring; he needs a new finish right stat now.
ReplyDeleteI never understood the appeal of Zack Ryder, because I wasn't into social media (and, for that matter, still aren't). So what I saw was this guy imitating Jersey Shore and every jackass you see in a nightclub being the most popular guy in the room, to the point where Madison Square Garden was preferring him to Dolph Ziggler and John Morrison. My reaction was: "Wha?"
ReplyDeleteBut most organizations have a soft spot for a career midcarder who gets a pop -- at the very least Ryder could've easily been in the Jim Duggan "You, first match, get the crowd going" role.
I have to ask: who is responsible for de-pushing him? Vince, Kevin Dunn, HHH? We all know they are at least in a position to kill pushes if they don't like/get it.
Um... I don't get it. Why post this video (it's of Rock v Hurricane 2003 for those not clicking on it)? I mean... how does it follow from what VJ said?
ReplyDeleteBut we did....
ReplyDelete