Bash
at
the
Beach
1999
Date:
July
11, 1999
Location:
National
Car
Rental
Center,
Fort
Lauderdale,
Florida
Attendance:
13,624
Commentators:
Bobby
Heenan,
Tony
Schiavone
Reviewed by Tommy Hall
We're going in a new
direction at this point in WCW as the promotion has gone from really
boring to freaking insane in the course of a few weeks. A good chunk
of this show was booked within the last few weeks and knowing the
stories isn't likely going to help me get through it. Let's get to
it.
I've
actually seen this show far more often than I should as I found it at
a Blockbuster for $2 when I was about thirteen. It took many years
to suppress those memories but here we go again.
The
opening video is a wordless montage about the four men in the main
event. I mean, if there's one story that doesn't need a verbal
explanation, it's one about Savage and Sid trying to kill Nash and
then the heroic champion kidnapping and potentially raping Gorgeous
George, causing Savage to throw her out of their dressing room with a
side plot of Sting potentially driving the Hummer that nearly killed
Nash and then Nash changing the rules of the tag match so that
anyone, including his partner, can pin him for the title. Also for
some reason they air the video then show it about five more times as
a very fast speed.
Tony
says the tag match tonight started as a tag match. It was once going
to be Sting/Nash vs. Savage/Sid in a tag team match, but it's now
Sting/Nash vs. Savage/Sid in a tag team match. No that's not a
misprint.
After those words of
wisdom, Schiavone explains the junkyard match and the boxing match
before throwing it to Gene for a Hotline ad.
Mike
Tenay is at the junkyard, which he knows about because his sources
told him where to go. Apparently there's going to be a ring of cars
with a bunch of obstacles to get around and the first person to jump
over a fence and escape wins. This company is rapidly becoming more
of a parody of wrestling than an actual wrestling promotion.
Video on the Cat vs.
Disco Inferno. Cat had a kickboxing match with Jerry Flynn and lost
via DQ so Flynn took him down in a brawl after the match. He and
Disco had a dance off a week earlier, making the kickboxing stuff
completely pointless.
Disco Inferno vs.
The Cat
The
original stipulation was the loser could never dance again but that
has since been dropped. The lawyers must be working overtime as the
match was announced three days ago and the stipulation was never
mentioned on Thunder. Miller rants before the match and wants
another dance contest before we get going. He demands that the
people all vote for him or else he'll beat them all up. Tony
explains that he'll lose because he threatened the fans because WCW
thinks we're rather thick headed. Disco dances for about two seconds
before Cat goes after him and we're ready to go.
Inferno
starts like a kitchen of fire (not enough for a whole house) and
sends Miller sliding out to the floor. Back in and Cat nails a few
kicks, so Disco just tackles him to the mat and hammers away. Some
atomic drops from Disco set up some miscommunication on what looked
to be his swinging neckbreaker.
Cat comes back with a
kick to the head and walks around as Sonny gets in a few shots of his
own. Those are as effective as you would expect since Sonny, a
legitimately accomplished karate fighter, is a manager and therefore
incapable of hurting anyone. Back in and Disco grabs a quick sunset
flip for two but gets his head kicked off again.
Another kick misses
though and Disco legsweeps him down, setting up a middle rope elbow
for two. Cat rakes the eyes and puts on the shoe, only to have Disco
take it away and blast him in the face. Sonny's distraction makes it
only a two count though, allowing Cat to put the shoe back on and
kick Disco for about the fifth time for the pin.
Rating:
D.
This really was the best thing they could think of to start a show?
It's really hard to care about a match with no build, no value and
nothing beyond basic moves. The fact that it had Ernest Miller in
there made things even less interesting. It's not even a horrible
match or anything, but there's just no reason to care about something
like that.
Judge Mills Lane won't
put up with any garbage tonight and will chase Bagwell or Piper if
need be.
We
recap the TV Title match. The video starts with Van Hammer surviving
against Disco Inferno because the referee was down and a handful of
tights. Then Flair saved Hammer from getting put through a table by
banning hardcore matches, allowing Hammer to hit Hugh Morrus with a
table and drive him through it. Somehow that earned him a TV Title
shot here.
TV
Title: Rick Steiner vs. Van Hammer
Keep
in mind that there really isn't a face in this match as there's no
reason to like either guy. Steiner comes out first for no apparent
reason. They trade hard shots to the face to start and Steiner is
knocked out to the floor. Steiner goes into his new standard of just
driving someone down to the mat and ripping at their face a lot.
Back up and Rick hammers away before taking Hammer outside to send
him into the barricade.
Rick
hits a horrible looking DDT on the exposed concrete and covers on the
floor to continue getting on my nerves. Back in and Hammer hits him
low, only to have Rick punch him in the face to take over again.
They head outside one more time with Hammer nailing him in the head
with a chair before taking him back inside for the Alabama Slam for
two. Steiner bites him between the legs, punts him in the same spot
(referee just watches him) and hits the Steiner Bulldog to retain.
Rating:
F.
Rick Steiner has reached the point where he's an embarrassment.
Between never selling anything from a chair shot to a low blow,
there's just nothing Hammer (who isn't the guy you want carrying a
bag of groceries, let alone a PPV title match) can do. What WCW saw
in him other than name recognition I'll never know, but if someone
thinks he's skilled in the ring, they have no business being in
charge of a wrestling company.
We
get an overhead view of the junkyard, which really just looks like a
parking lot with a bunch of cars stacked up in a circle. The winner
gets a trophy but Tenay can't answer who is going to be in the match
because it's unsanctioned.
We recap David Flair
being named US Champion, meaning we just see the segment again.
Again, weren't the Flairs fighting months ago about David siding with
Torrie and having his father hold him down? Now David has ten women
around him (including Torrie) and his dad made him US Title. That's
a big jump in the span of five months.
US Title: Dean
Malenko vs. David Flair
David
is defending of course and comes out with Torrie, in a very pushed up
tied off top, shirt that might be nine inches long, and a black
cowboy hat. Ric, Arn and Asya are here too but Johnny Boone is
refereeing. Tony says David hasn't been impressive in all of his
title defenses. You know, all one of them.
Dean of course throws
him down with ease and stomps away in the corner before planting
David with a suplex. Ric comes in but gets decked as Dean puts on
the Cloverleaf. Anderson nails the referee with a spinebuster,
allowing Robinson to take over as referee. Dean Cloverleafs Asya but
Ric nails him with the US Title to give David the pin.
Rating:
F.
Dang it this was just long enough to grade. As I said in the Nitro
review, I get the idea they're going for here, but wasn't there
another scrub you could put in there instead of Malenko? I know Dean
isn't going to be headlining a PPV anytime soon, but he's the kind of
guy that should actually be the US Champion. This kind of story is
good in the right circumstances, but WCW isn't in a place where they
can turn yet another title into a joke and keep beating their midcard
guys into the ground, even in a match that doesn't end anywhere near
clean.
Long
recap of the Rednecks vs. the No Limit Soldiers, complete with the
full I Hate Rap video. Barry Windham is such a talented drummer that
he just scares the drums into playing themselves because he certainly
isn't hitting them. This includes a lot of shouting HOOTY HOO, which
amazingly enough didn't get the rappers over. Master P. is long
gone, apparently saying that there weren't enough of “his people”
in the audience for the night the angle took off. That would be in
P.'s hometown in New Orleans if you aren't big on guys who shout like
owls.
No Limit Solders vs.
West Texas Rednecks
Swoll, B.A., Rey
Mysterio Jr., Konnan
Curt Hennig, Barry
Windham, Kendall Windham, Bobby Duncum Jr.
Elimination
tag, which I believe is the first explanation of the rules for this
match. The best part of this: the camera comes back to the arena
early, showing ring announcer David Penzer counting the fans down on
when to cheer. Tony fails at covering for him by saying that he was
saying hi to his five family members in the audience. The levels
that this company falls to when trying to cover their mistakes is
astounding. Heenan redeems things a bit by saying that the Soldiers'
problem could be solved if they just put a light in their closets.
Rey and Konnan make sure to shout a lot before we're ready to go.
Mysterio
and Barry get things going with the Cruiserweight Champion getting
hammered down in the corner. Rey comes back by sending Barry into
the corner and getting two off a split legged moonsault. Off to
Hennig vs. B.A. with Armstrong nailing a dropkick before trying to
talk some trash. Thankfully that goes nowhere as it's off to Duncum
before the big Swoll comes in with a bad looking clothesline. Swoll
hammers on Duncum but Kendall comes in with a cheap shot to take
over.
Kendall
misses a charge into the post so Mysterio comes in without a tag.
Naturally the referee is fine with this. Kendall tries to beat the
rules into him but Rey nails him with a springboard seated senton to
knock both Kendall and Duncum out to the floor. Back in and it's
Konnan vs. Hennig before Rey hits another springboard seated senton
on Hennig. Duncum and Hennig both get hammered in the corner until
it's Swoll ducking Duncum's cross body for two in an awkward
sequence. Rey adds a springboard legdrop and Swoll pins Bobby.
The other Soldiers,
Chase and 4x4 (who makes Ezekiel Jackson look like David Flair) beat
up Duncum in the aisle because they're heroes. Barry and Konnan
hammer away on each other until Curt comes back in for a double
clothesline. Off to BA as the Rednecks keep control with Curt
nailing a quick HennigPlex to make it 3-3. Mysterio tried to dive in
for a save but came in too fast and basically started crawling in
slow motion for no logical reason.
So it's Konnan getting
beaten down now with Kendall hitting a bad looking lariat and a
slightly better looking slam. He misses a middle rope knee though
and Konnan hits a rolling lariat of his own (called a DDT by Tony),
followed by the facebuster for two. Rey dropkicks Kendall into a
horrible “rollup” for the pin on Kendall. Barry DDTs Konnan for
two as 4x4 and Chase beat up Kendall.
Everything
breaks down with Barry going to the floor.....and being carried off
by Chase with Konnan following. For some reason this isn't a DQ and
both guys are counted out. So it's Hennig vs. Swoll/Mysterio. Swoll
comes in for some incredibly sloppy offense as Barry comes back in.
Curt tries to bail but 4x4 stops him in his tracks. Back in and
Swoll hits his stupid palm strike to the chest before bringing in Rey
for the Jimmy Snuka/Andre the Giant big splash off the shoulders for
the pin.
Rating:
C-.
Swoll is horrible. Like he's really, really bad, to the point that
he can barely throw punches correctly. I understand that he was
really new at this, but as WCW should have learned over the years,
that's why he shouldn't be on a major show like this. The Soldiers
continue to act entirely like heels here, just like they have for
most of this feud.
The
announcers chat for a bit about the rest of the card.
We get Hak's challenge
for the junkyard match.
Junkyard
Invitational
Ciclope, Jerry Flynn,
Johnny Grunge, Hak, Horace Hogan, Brian Knobs, Hugh Morrus, La Parka,
Lord Steven Regal, Fit Finlay, Rocco Rock, Silver King, Squire David
Taylor, and Mikey Whipwreck
They're in a junkyard,
first person to climb over a fence wins. The place is huge so
there's almost no way to see more than four or five people at once
unless you go to a helicopter shots. Public Enemy (a surprise) flips
a car over as I'm only going to be able to call big spots. There are
barrels of fire everywhere. Jerry Flynn puts an electrical cord into
an engine to make sparks fly out. Knobbs dives off one car for an
elbow onto King on the roof of a van.
Finlay
hits la Parka in the ribs with a bumper as Dave Taylor hits Morrus in
the head with a trashcan lid. The annoyed look on Morrus' face as he
just keeps walking is rather amusing. The camera shots are only
lasting about ten seconds at most so it's hard to call much of
anything. Jimmy Hart is running around in a yellow shirt and a hard
hat. Rocco Rock is thrown into the window of a van. Morrus dives
off a car with an elbow onto Rock because they're already repeating
spots.
I
think Ciclope dives off a car onto about six guys before they start
throwing things at each other instead of doing anything coherent.
Finlay goes Captain America by blocking a punch with a trashcan lid
and hitting Horace in the face with it. Brian wraps Taylor in a tire
as we're waiting on someone to try and win. Rocco and Horace make
the first trip over with Horace making a last second save to keep
Rock from escaping.
Silver King is bleeding
from the arm as this just keeps going. Taylor has to dance out of a
tire before Knobs and Hak put Finlay in a car. A forklift pops up
and takes the car over to the crusher but Finlay gets out to prevent
death. Of course the forklift hasn't been seen all match until this
point. Then another car blows up and Finlay climbs over the fence to
win.
Rating:
N/A.
This wasn't wrestling, and quite frankly I'm really not sure what it
was. Why in the world WCW thought this was a good idea is beyond me
and I'm sure the live audience is going to be THRILLED after having
sat there for fifteen minutes waiting on this to end. On top of all
that, Finlay would hurt his leg soon after this at a house show (in a
hardcore match of course) and be out for months, making the whole
thing worthless. I can't imagine he's the only one to get injured in
this mess either.
We
recap the Triad vs. Saturn/Benoit. They fought each other, then they
fought each other some more, then they had some singles matches, now
they're having a title match. For some reason we get a bunch of
clips of the eight man tag from Nitro which doesn't seem to be going
anywhere, other than a boxing match. They're trying to tie this into
the old vs. new feud, which doesn't even seem to be a thing anymore.
Tag Team Titles:
Chris Benoit/Perry Saturn vs. Jersey Triad
The
Triad is defending. Kanyon starts on the floor as Saturn and Page
slug it out in the middle. It's Saturn taking over with a bunch of
right hands before knocking Bigelow and Kanyon off the apron for good
measure. Off to Bigelow vs. Benoit as the announcers call Benoit an
uncrowned champion. Hasn't he been a three time champion by this
point? Bam Bam gets dropped into the middle buckle and sent out to
the floor for a meeting with his partners.
Back
in and Kanyon fights out of a suplex from Saturn and knees him down
against the ropes. He grabs the referee to block a German attempt,
only to have Benoit chop him into a t-bone. Back to Benoit for the
decapitation clothesline followed by a Liontamer (which he used
before Jericho). A double clothesline drops Kanyon for two more as
the challengers stay in full control. Benoit stomps Kanyon down in
the corner and starts in on his leg.
Saturn
drops a top rope legdrop for two but Page comes in without a tag to
take over, sending Saturn to the floor for a triple team to take
over. Bigelow comes in for a big suplex and a falling headbutt for
two. Back to Kanyon after Bigelow uses Flair's “how much time is
left” trick. Kanyon drops a leg for one of the slowest two counts
I can remember in a long time. The fans get distracted by something
in the crowd so Bigelow puts Saturn in a chinlock.
Kanyon
comes back in but gets crotched on the top, setting up a belly to
belly superplex from Saturn. Benoit gets the hot tag and goes after
Bigelow, only to have Page take him down with a top rope clothesline.
Page is VERY pleased with this move, running out to the floor and
celebrating like a mad man, even climbing onto the barricade. Back
in and Page gets two off an elbow drop before it's off to Bigelow for
some fat man offense.
Page
comes in again and runs Benoit over for two with Saturn making the
save. We get a front chancery from Page but Benoit drives him into
the corner for the hot tag, which of course the referee doesn't see.
That wicked sitout powerbomb from Page is good for two. Benoit
finally suplexes Kanyon down but Bigelow breaks up a hot tag attempt.
Bam Bam misses the moonsault though and we FINALLY get the hot tag
to Saturn (which the camera doesn't catch).
Saturn
cleans house with suplexes and clotheslines Page and Kanyon out to
the floor. Everything breaks down again and Saturn hits a top rope
splash, followed by the Swan Dive from Benoit but Page comes in off
the top for the save. Saturn loads Page up with the Death Valley
Driver but Kanyon throws powder in his face, only to have it get in
Page's eyes too, causing him to Diamond Cut Kanyon. Bigelow makes
the save but Benoit Germans Page for a VERY close two. Page throws
in a metal trashcan as the referee gets bumped. He hits Kanyon by
mistake but Bigelow comes in for a 3D on Saturn to retain the titles.
Rating:
B+.
Give that match a less messy finish and it's a classic. There was a
lot of good stuff in here and the majority of it was due to how much
time they were given. Everyone was allowed to get in there for
awhile and the fans bought into the idea of two guys trying to fight
against the big cheating team. They gave it a great effort and the
whole thing just worked. Really good stuff here, though not enough
to save this disaster of the show.
Clip of Judge Mills
Lane agreeing to referee the boxing match. That's all of the recap
because there was no reason for this to be a boxing match other than
Piper barely being a wrestler anymore.
Roddy Piper vs. Buff
Bagwell
Big
time boxing referee Mills Lane is referee here to try to make people
care. In case you've never seen him, just picture Mr. Strickland
from Back to the Future. Piper has Flair in his corner. Buff's
gloves are actually labeled “Buff's Left” and “Buff's Right”.
Bagwell sees Flair in Piper's corner, so he has someone to have his
back: HIS MOM, “Judge Judy” Bagwell. And I give up. Seriously
it was bad enough when this was boxing instead of Piper just doing a
freaking job for Bagwell like he should be doing, but now BUFF'S MOM
IS HERE???
Flair
gives Bagwell a chance to leave but Buff reminds him of the pin off
the Blockbuster a few weeks back. You know, when Flair put Bagwell
over in the middle of the ring in the whole point of this entire
story. The rounds are two minutes long here. Piper sticks his chin
out to start until Buff hammers him into the corner. The fans are
dead at this point if you couldn't guess. Bagwell tees off on Piper
(well, as much as he can BECAUSE HE ISN'T A BOXER) to end the first
round.
Flair
sprays something on Piper's gloves in between the rounds as this
continues to fall apart. Piper hits a few jabs to the face and
Bagwell's eyes are burning. He gets punched down in the corner as
Judy brings over a sponge to try and clean Buff's eyes out. Back up
and Piper wildly swings until Buff knocks Piper down in the corner in
an identical sequence from Piper vs. Mr. T. thirteen years ago,
because that's what this is supposed to be....a tribute to I suppose?
Piper gets up as round two ends.
I'm
going to pause for a second here and give you a bit of context to
what is about to happen. Fifteen months ago, WCW was still in
control of the Monday Night Wars and hadn't lost a night in the
ratings in nearly two years. Their last win was about nine months
before this. Yeah they were in trouble, but it's not like they were
so desperate for something good to happen that they had to go insane.
A few weeks back, Buff Bagwell hit his finishing move and pinned Ric
Flair in the middle of the ring on Nitro, which should have been the
start of a huge push for him. After all that, I give you the third
round of this boxing match.
Piper
jumps Bagwell in the corner and attacks Bagwell early, so his mother
Judy gets in the ring and bites Piper's ear. She then dumps the spit
bucket over Piper's head as Buff punches Flair off the apron. Buff
goes up and hits the Blockbuster on Piper as Judy holds Flair on the
apron, allowing Buff to pin Piper for the win. Judy chases the
President of WCW around the ring after the match.
Rating:
G.
As in below an F and for GOOD FREAKING GRIEF THEY REALLY COULDN'T
COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER THAN THIS??? Piper wasn't capable of
doing a five minute match and doing a job for Bagwell? Does WCW
really think that it's important enough to protect him from taking a
fall in a wrestling match that they'll let him take a fall in a
boxing match? Read that sentence back and see how insane it sounds.
Now throw in Judy Bagwell and more hijinks than an episode of Looney
Tunes and you see what happened to WCW in the summer of 1999.
We
recap Nash/Sting vs. Savage/Sid. Savage being a woman beater and
Nash potentially raping George is glossed over. On the other hand,
the Fake Sting attacking Nash, causing Nash to go after Sting, even
though the real Sting came out to beat up the Fake Sting, is left out
with only the Fake Sting beating Nash down being shown. For some
reason Nash wanted this to be a tag team match where anyone,
including his partner, could pin him for the title. Again, this
isn't mentioned in the video. We'll also ignore Nash saying he saw
Sting driving the Hummer before we see that happening in the package.
WCW World Title: Sid
Vicious/Randy Savage vs. Kevin Nash/Sting
Nash
is defending in what is more like a handicap fatal fourway than a tag
match if that makes sense. In theory Sting can only pin Nash for the
title, meaning it's basically one on one on two. Thankfully Tony
mentions the whole Sting can pin Nash and the real Sting coming out
during the entrances. Yes, we've reached the point where Tony
Schiavone is having to cover for the production team's goofs.
George
(living up to the gorgeous moniker tonight) comes out in sunglasses
but takes them off to reveal a black eye as she goes to stand in
Nash's corner. The reason for the black eye isn't explained because
that really wasn't something that should have happened, nor is it
even referenced by the announcers. Savage and Sting start but Randy
sees George changing corners and freaks out. Sting uses the chance
to deck Savage and the fight is slowly on.
Off
to Sid to face Sting as Tony explains the rules, making this match
even more confusing that it was in the first place. Sting quickly
knocks Sid out to the floor but Nash isn't interested in tagging. So
in theory, if Nash doesn't get pinned, he doesn't lose the title?
It's not like we've ever gotten a clear answer to that, though to be
fair I doubt WCW thought it that far through. Sid and Savage start
double teaming Sting with the big man putting on a bad looking camel
clutch.
Savage
comes in and spits at the champ, but thankfully doesn't hit his hair.
Sting finally rolls away and makes the tag to Nash for all the usual
offense. He has Savage in trouble but gives Sting a very hard tag to
get out. Sting takes it outside and splashes the barricade before
Savage takes him back inside for some choking. Tony points out that
almost no one has tries to pin Nash yet, making the whole stipulation
rather pointless.
Sid
hooks one of the lamest chinlocks I've ever seen on Sting, who is
nice enough to go down to the mat in a heap. Granted he might have
fainted after hearing some of the nonsense they actually aired on
this show. Sting fights up again and does the falling low blow spot,
allowing for the hot tag off to Nash.
Everything breaks down
and the girls come in, only to have Sting splash both of them plus
Sid. Savage and Nash get splashed at the same time, allowing Sid to
plant Sting with a chokeslam. George gets in and low blows Nash
(SHOCK AND AWE, SHOCK AND AWE), setting up the big elbow from Savage
for the pin and the title.
Rating:
D-.
I wonder if they bothered to tell everyone else in the match about
the whole Sting can pin Nash rule, because it was NEVER attempted and
was a complete non factor. George's face turn (can you even call it
that?) lasted all of twelve minutes, meaning she's picking the woman
beater over the kidnapper and potential rapist. I can't believe I
just had to type that, so I'll wrap it up by saying it's a horrible
match.
Overall
Rating: F.
The fact that a REALLY good twenty three minute Tag Team Title match
is needed to bring this show up to a failure tells you all you need
to know. This show had eight matches. One of them was a joke with
David Flair needing an army to beat Malenko, one wasn't wrestling
because it was a big fight in a junkyard, and one was a boxing match.
Two of the others were matches that belonged on Thunder at best,
another one was a boring elimination tag, and one MADE NO FREAKING
SENSE.
This show blew my mind
in ways that I honestly didn't think were possible. Just let some of
this stuff sink in for a few minutes. Roddy Piper apparently can't
be trusted in a five minute match, we can't have a DQ anymore because
Rick Steiner wouldn't be able to have a match break 10 seconds if we
did, and we have to drop stipulations that are made less than three
days before the match. WCW is dying before our eyes and it's kind of
amazing to see in a morbid way.
Remember to check out my website at kbwrestlingreviews.com and head over to my Amazon author page with wrestling books for under $4 at:
http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Hall/e/B00E6282W6
Awesome review man
ReplyDeleteThe Junkyard Invitational. With all the injuries the guys racked up, amazing none of them got a staph infection for the other company's doctors to ignore.
ReplyDeleteMuch appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI was watching KOTR 1997 a little bit ago, and it creeps me out how many parents in 95-97 let their young sons go to Raw dressed as Shawn.
ReplyDeleteA baby dressed up as a male stripper would be hilarious and adorable. An eight-year old? Creepy and awful.
Hopefully it's nothing like the outfits he wore in WWF and WCW early in his career.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I hate to, I have to side with Vince on this one point. After the Rumble, there was no way in hell they weren't going to call an audible and put Bryan in the main event. You just can't have fans hijacking shows like that, and that would have caught serious momentum if they'd kept up with the Daniel Wyatt nonsense.
ReplyDeleteWith money, I'd assume.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
ReplyDeleteYou'd have to watch the shows to remember the reaction to Pittsburgh was 1) Batista's still a face and 2) they were building toward Bryan vs. Kane until they finally threw up their hands post-EC. I understand the gimmick, but do you really have to come off so silly?
ReplyDeleteHow is this an "anti smark" perspective again?
ReplyDeleteAnother Truther who forgets what they were actually booking post-Pittsburgh.
ReplyDeleteYou are trying soooo hard right now. I don't even think you understood my original post. Re-read it.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm trying sooooo hard by pointing out what was actually booked and going on on the program.
ReplyDeleteIf someone doesn't agree with the general opinion, then it's a trolling anti-smark gimmick, cause it's simply INCONCEIVABLE that someone might have a valid opinion that differs from theirs.
ReplyDeleteRight, but I thought OUR perspective was the anti-smark.
ReplyDeleteI'm so confused.
What are you arguing here exactly? Pittsburgh? Bryan vs Kane? What?
ReplyDeleteWith how petty the wwe has been known to be, it'll be interesting to see what they have planned for AJ on monday. This story aint over yet!
ReplyDeleteHe says they had rejiggered the booking immediately upon the reaction in Pittsburgh to put Bryan in the main event. Highlighting that the actual booking was leading to a midcard Bryan vs. Kane match disproves that. They didn't finally quit until after EC.
ReplyDeleteUm... whoops?
ReplyDeleteYep, the year 2000, when 'Taker had been putting on mostly shitty matches for a decade.
ReplyDeleteShould've probably been titled "How the Anti-Smark Gimmick Posters Were Wrong (And Will Still Defend It Anyway)," but.
ReplyDeleteI honestly have no idea.
ReplyDeleteAh right, well they could hardly work Bryan into the main event immediately the next night on Raw. But I'd say the reaction at the Rumble definitely had them reconsidering Batista/Orton. I doubt they put Bryan into the main purely to spite Punk
ReplyDeletePunk didn't even say they did it to "spite him." His absence meant the card would've been a giant chant-a-thon bust if Bryan wasn't given the opportunity.
ReplyDeleteExactly. I'm saying it would have happened, whether Punk quit or not. It had little to nothing to do with him. The "Yes movement" had already started.
ReplyDeleteSo you think the main event would have been Batista/Orton if Punk had stuck around?
ReplyDeleteIt's one thing to white-knight punk, but this is getting close to hero worship. If world hunger gets solved, I'm sure it will be because of CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteTaker/Lesnar, Batista/Orton, Punk/HHH, as anyone can clearly see. So long as they're not working a gimmick.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I fail to see how Punk has ANYTHING to do with this.
ReplyDeleteYou'll only see how Punk has anything to do with this if they admit to it on a DVD, and maybe not then.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Batista/Orton happening under any circumstances - it would have been shat on at Goldberg/Lesnar proportions and no Stone Cold there to save the day. Nothing to do with Punk
ReplyDeleteYou give Vince too much credit, dude.
ReplyDeleteWell no, I don't because from my understanding he was the last one to realise it would have been an awful idea. But there was no denying the Rumble reaction and reactions after that. The old man came round in the end
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that AJ might be about done with the company?? 26th time's the charm??
ReplyDeleteVince McMahon and "denying reactions" goes together like peanut butter and jelly.
ReplyDeleteI fully admit that Mcmahon read the situation horribly wrong. But he ended up admitting it and gave us what we all wanted for WM 30. I guess that's not enough, cause he totally should have known sooner, so he still sucks?
ReplyDeleteNot gonna argue with that but on this occasion I think he came round when he realised it threatened to turn his biggest event into a flop
ReplyDeleteI'm done arguing with him. I think he's just trying to impress the board by going after me or something. I dont' even know what he's arguing about. Vince misjudged the crowd, he fixed it, it had nothing to do with Punk. I'm moving on. :)
ReplyDeleteLOL, and Punk's the one with the ego. "Impress the board" by arguing with you. Wow.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I was going to say. He would have been shoulder to shoulder with Warrior, but I think Warrior's maniacal charisma was a better fit for that position. His character was handled perfectly leading up to Wrestlemania VI, it was only in the aftermath that it fell apart. But Lex would have been a great opponent for Warrior after he won the belt. Luger could have been positioned as the Warrior's physical equal, but intellectual superior. Give him Heenan and make him the Brain's ultimate bid for the title.
ReplyDeleteAfter the fans spent a entire additional month rejecting the post-Rumble booking, sure, Vince seized on the opening provided by HHH suddenly being free to do something else.
ReplyDeleteok, one last try. using capital letters.
ReplyDeleteWHAT. DOES. THIS. HAVE. TO. DO. WITH. CM. PUNK???
Why wouldn't Daniel be able to be added into the main event, even if Punk still wrestles HHH?? It made ZERO difference.
Again, one last try, the booking post-Rumble through EC is a BIG GIANT FLASHING ARROW to Bryan doing something entirely different at WM.
ReplyDeleteNo way buddy. Just saying it will be interesting, is all. (See folks? Thats how you handle getting jordanized!)
ReplyDeleteSo if HHH hadn't been freed up, Vince would have gone "oh well, guess we'll have to stick with Batista/Orton". Come on dude, think about it - there was NO CHANCE Orton/batista was happening post-Rumble. Having Punk watch Bryan win the big one might have been a 'bonus' in their eyes but it's definitely not the reason they booked it
ReplyDeleteAgain, you give Vince too much credit and the Jan-Feb booking shows it.
ReplyDeleteAs I explained before, I'm not. But you're definitely giving Punk too much credit by taking everything he says as gospel
ReplyDeleteThat's why i don't see him going back to wrestling, he have a lot of other opportunity in front of him
ReplyDeleteOr I'm looking at what was going on on the Raws following the Rumble, but either/or.
ReplyDeleteBooking plans change all the time - we know this. They still had a long time till Mania to go after the Rumble - did you want them to re-book the whole provisional card on Raw the next night? One last time - nothing to do with Punk
ReplyDeleteA long time to go until the Rumble, which they spent an entire month of building toward Bryan/Kane. They COULD have stuck Bryan in the WM main event as a three way on the go home show to WM with Punk still there, but any kind of historical perspective says they weren't.
ReplyDeleteWell let's just agree to disagree. I can't remember a lot from back then but I do remember after the Rumble thinking there's NO WAY Bryan won't be in the main event at Mania, and there's no way Batista/Orton is happening either. It makes really little sense to suggest it was because of CM Punk. Come on. Anyway, peace out!
ReplyDeletefair enough
ReplyDeleteThe people that listen to a Colt podcast is the exact audience that would listen to a CM Punk not shoot. Why was he not prepared for this? Suckas gots to know
ReplyDeleteTrust me, A LOT of us watched the Rumble and thought, "Oh, there's NO WAY they can stick with Orton/Batista now!" and then we got the next month of TV in response. It'd be interesting to look at the Raws/EC threads, actually, see how clearly the blog saw Bryan/Kane being built at the time and how it inspired eight billion Bryan threads. It makes all the sense in the world, again, just considering how they build feuds.
ReplyDeleteHow does any of this have to do with "Daniel Wyatt"? He turned within two weeks and it's seem pretty evident that Bryan was used to get Bray ready for Cena as Cena/Wyatt was rumored for months.
ReplyDeleteWell now surely it's you giving Vince too much credit by suggesting his booking makes sense. How many times have we seen matches/feuds forgotten about/scrapped at the last minute? All the time. It doesn't take CM Punk leaving for it to happen
ReplyDeleteOr they would have asked about his agent.
ReplyDeleteBryan was going to walk out of Mania as champ, Punk leaving or not. It may not have gone down exactly the same way (obviously no HHH match), but the crowd was going to force that decision no matter what.
ReplyDeletewhynotboth.jpg, seeing as how it was. And again, and I don't know how circular this conversation has begun, "the fans screamed YOU BETTER GIVE US WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE and got zero response the month following that event" is at least supported by what was going on at the time. "Booking changes sometimes" is nebulous at best, and I don't know when the main event of WrestleMania has had a new addition a month before the event before. As much as I recall, Shawn got added to the WM main event the week before No Way Out because they were afraid Hunter/Benoit wouldn't draw on its own, but that's it.
ReplyDeleteI think a ton more people listened to this than would normally listen to Colt. I'm definitely one of those people
ReplyDeleteI do recall how Cena/Wyatt was pissed on by certain members here as "MELTZER'S AN IDIOT!"
ReplyDeleteBooking plans change all the time, not sometimes. That's why my argument makes a ton of sense. Certainly more than "because of CM Punk" or "because CM Punk says it's because of CM Punk"
ReplyDeleteBooking plans for the main event of WM weeks away from the event do not change all the time. You have to ignore the booking at the time and Vince's history at being told what to do by the fans in order to arrive at your viewpoint, and that's a bridge too far when "the fans are revolting, WM is a super smark event besides, and now there's a clear path for the fans' choice to be put in the main event" is looking one right in the face.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I articulated my point too well. Let's try again. This is the kind of thing that people that are aware of Colt's podcast would listen to. X number of people listen to each one. X times X squared is the number of people that would listen to a Colt podcast featuring a CM Punk not shoot.
ReplyDeleteA bridge too far would've been Vince going with Orton/Batista (in terms of him never listening to fans, as you say). It's easy to ignore the booking at the time because as I say, things change and they they still had 2 months to go before Mania after the Rumble - they could slowly phase out the original plans instead of completely revamping them the following night. There was just no way Orton/Batista was happening and Vince conceeded that in the end, certainly not because of CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteLike you said though we're going round in circles so agree to disagree! Peace (for real this time)!
Vince ignores us all the time, man, especially when it comes to such important shit as the WM main event! lol Agree to disagree, though, okay.
ReplyDeleteThat is the answer to how NJPW pays, not how much they pay.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if making her life difficult would fly in today's corporate WWE since it'd be obvious why they're doing it, but it's gotta be tough for her to walk into work and face Vince or HHH after this.
ReplyDeleteI've gone back and fourth on all of this. From reading the recap first I thought he was being difficult at times for no real reason, but after listening to it a couple of times he doesn't come off that bad. He just sounds like a guy who put up with the shit most guys have to put up with only he doesn't have the need or the personality to take it. He really just seems like a guy who's done with wrestling so he'll shoot the shit about what working in WWE was actually like for him.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more with Scott. He had such a benefit in working with the Horsemen in NWA and learning the ropes from them. Had he gone straight to WWF he would have wandered around with no tutelage probably and just been another late-80's early 90's cartoon character
ReplyDeleteLove how people still throw the 'wins and losses don't matter' argument out there. How did that loss to Cena at Mania not kill him?
ReplyDeleteIt's funny, you can hear it in him that he REALLY wants to rip apart the wrestling business for what they put the guys through physically. But he holds back, not wanting to dishonour it's "noble" past (name dropping Harley Race).
ReplyDeleteI wonder if years down the road he'll call out how stupid it is. Cause it's a sad reflection on the industry that even the most outspoken guy doesn't want to completely unload on it.
If the WWE would allow themselves to pull the trigger on somebody when they start to get over (see Cesaro and Swagger and keep your fingers crossed with Ziggler) without pissing their pants, they would be able to have guys ready to take over top slots and let talent take time off to recuperate and to keep things from getting stale. Instead, somebody has to have a life-threatening injury to be taken off TV for any period of time unless someone decides to go off and make a movie like Batista or WWE themselves takes someone off TV to make some shitty straight-to-DVD movie like Orton and Ambrose. Look no further than what's happened with the roster the second half of 2014 as far as injuries to know how desperately WWE needs fresh talent to rise up.
ReplyDeleteWeren't the rumors building to a Daniel Wyatt vs Sheamus match and then, after they decided to abort the Wyatt angle, Bryan vs Kane?
ReplyDeleteCena can't make people look strong in defeat. Some guys can.
ReplyDeleteIt killed his momentum DEAD and not even Jericho could salvage it. It was WAY too soon to feud with Cena anyway and there were about a dozen other places Wyatt could have gone before running into Cena. It also didn't help that the promos were getting more redundant and non-sensical but they were crazy over up until that point.
ReplyDeleteWatching right now, nothing frustrates me more than hearing how thin the roster is and how there are no main eventers, and then seeing how they treat entertaining guys who the audience reacts to. Cesaro and Dolph Ziggler are the most obvious examples, but there are guys like Dean Ambrose (who isn't treated badly, but could be so much more), Kofi Kingston, Christian, and hell, even Zack Ryder a couple years ago. For that matter, why is somebody like Justin Gabriel -- who seemed like he could be the breakout star of the Nexus group -- floundering around doing nothing? Is he going to be the face of the company? No, probably not....but there's no reason why he can't be much bigger than he currently is.
ReplyDeleteNo knock on Gabriel but I like the idea of him and Kidd being the "veteran" presence on NXT to help guys get to the next level while still getting their own shots on the main roster shows. They're both capable of dynamite matches and I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of this week's NXT tonight with Kidd vs. Balor.
ReplyDeleteYep
ReplyDeleteah okay, I totally misunderstoof
ReplyDeleteShe told them to fuck off with regards to total divas. There's always been a little bit off CM Punk in her.
ReplyDeleteyeah it was a bit refreshing considering it came from a guy who has apparently said less than kind things about Miz in the past
ReplyDeleteAccording to Meltzer, WWE creative has no plans for Ziggler. He just got plugged into the hole created by Reigns & Orton being gone. Yeah, I know, what does Meltzer know. But really, he's not being pushed, just utilized. There are no long range plans to actually elevate him.
ReplyDeleteWell Bret sure took the Sunny Days comment hard despite it making it on TV. Vince probably doesn't care but its possible some of that stuff could rub guys the wrong way. HHH sure did his best to undercut a lot of those Punk promos in 2011 after summerslam.
ReplyDeletewoooooooooo
ReplyDeleteAt what point did the Internets go all bass-ackwards? Nowadays certain circles are all about the hosses and hating the Punks and Bryans of the world.
ReplyDelete'Not even Jericho.'
ReplyDeleteLOL
I guess the best to hope for at this point is that we Randy Orton vs Lesnar at wrestlemania. Maybe it will end up being a good match.
ReplyDeleteVince Jordan is like a 9/11 Truther.
ReplyDeleteI always loved the "wins or losses don't matter" spiel.
ReplyDeleteAsk Triple H if wins or losses don't matter, especially after WWE sends letters to gaming magazines prohibiting them from showing a video game RENDERING of Triple H being in a vulnerable position, or WWE editing video packages that don't show Triple H losing (Royal Rumble 2008 for example).
Good on Punk.
ReplyDeleteThe business needs him more than he needs the business, and if he's not feeling creatively fulfilled, then let him move on with his health and wealth intact.
Again, here's a guy who actually got one over on professional wrestling.
He's not broke, he's not busted to pieces, and he doesn't have to work shows at state fairs.
And yeah, it's nice of him to peel back the curtain on the way out the door.
Was anyone surprised by anything he said? Vince is out of touch, Trips still thinks he's a huge draw, the writers are assclowns, and the medical staff has no regard whatsoever for the performers.
So many of us have to eat shit every day at our jobs. He didn't, and that alone makes me a fan.
Even Chyna was more popular than Triple H.
ReplyDeleteHell, I'd say Triple H was the LEAST popular member of DX.
It also vindicates a lot of us who have been SAYING that Hunter is a fragile-ego possessing, delusional, insecure jerkwad who wants to get HIMSELF over at ALL costs to the business. He's Greg fucking Gagne with muscles.
ReplyDeleteFINALLY got a chance to sit down and listen to the whole thing. I was on Punk's side before, but now I'm 100% on his side. What a clusterfuck of a company.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that Rumble 2008 package, but I don't recall seeing it online.
ReplyDeleteAlso, don't forget the history clips shows that push the Triple H-led DX as the most important faction in the history of the business and the DX "tank" invasion was the single most gamechanging segment during the Monday Night War.
I'm only slightly exaggerating.
Relax, I know it was a TV segment. I'm just saying I'd like to think Triple H's skin is that thin.
ReplyDeleteThough to be honest, there are plenty of examples of Triple H demonstrating that he can't take a joke.
I just wish guys like Punk, who don't drink the WWE kool-aid of how they should just be grateful for the job they have, could apply the same scrutiny to the "good 'ol days" when shit was actually WORSE than it was now. It takes serious cognitive dissonance to (rightly) call out WWE for treating it's workers like garbage, but glorify the "old school" mentality of a bunch of guys who are either dead or in terrible shape.
ReplyDeleteI still think defenses per days as champion would be a slightly better call.
ReplyDeleteDid she tell them to fuck off? I always figured they didn't want her on the show because she was dating Punk and he had no interest in being on the show, but I honestly don't know when she started dating Punk and when they wanted her to be on Total Divas.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't an anti-smark be... a mark?
ReplyDeleteI'm not great on terminology though. I should stop before Meekin appears to try and explain the difference between a botch and a shoot.
I truly enjoy your reviews. Seeing you break form a little bit and unleash on the boxing match is great stuff. I can't recall you going under an F before and it's on the same show as the infamous junkyard match.
ReplyDeleteI never understood the point of Ernest Miller wrestling. He could cut a great promo and was fantastic as a heel who needed to get beaten up, but the guy couldn't work an actual match.
Then why put him over so strong at Survivor Series? It makes zero sense not to keep him in the main event mix while the fans are into it. This idiotic mentality that there are only limited spots to go around at the top of the card while guys are dropping left and right with injuries makes me ill.
ReplyDelete"Wins and losses don't matter" spiel is bullshit part 2:
ReplyDeleteShawn Michaels insisting he go over British Bulldog for the European Title. Shawn Michaels "losing his smile". Actually, Shawn Michaels in most of 1997.
His only pinfall lose in that entire year was to Triple H, and it was that joke match.
Well...I think he was "being considered" but was never in any sort of serious contention. Mostly given that the story needed a young Thor as opposed to a more grizzled older version.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think I said anything absurdly wrong today, and I will say it again, Punk was 100% right to be angry with the WWE doctors (that guy should be fired as a PR move), and he was 100% right to put his health over everything else. It's the other stuff that makes me dislike him.
ReplyDeleteOr 9/11 was an inside job, and Punk orchestrated it all or something. Whatever.
I see some of the Daniel Bryan conversation below, and obviously Vince Jordan shit out a bunch of comments. The point is the contrarian point of view was that D Bry being in the main event of Mania was planned all along. CM Punk's comments clearly disproved that regardless of if he had anything to do with it or not. That was a nice revelation.
ReplyDeleteThat is nowhere near what I said.
ReplyDeleteI said that CM Punk quitting had zero to do with it. It was the crowd hijacking the show, and turning on Batista that changed it. Whether Punk quit or stayed to fight HHH at Mania, Bryan was getting "willed" into the main event by the fans no matter what.
On the subject on CM Punk, maybe someone can clarify for me. Punk kept stressing that he was fired and didn't quit and he seemed open to the possibility of coming back, like wanting to call HHH the moment he got back from his honeymoon but then he got fired on his wedding day and he decided to retire from the business.
ReplyDeletethe prob with a narcissist angle is that my natural reaction to one is apathy
ReplyDeleteI always laugh at guys at CM Punk who claim "I will never go back to WWE"..... THEY ALL GO BACK! No1 never stays retired.
ReplyDeleteThat's what you said today, that's not what you said and argued in the past.
ReplyDeleteEither way, you can't deny CM Punk's departure added fuel to those rabid crowds.
ReplyDelete"There's always been a little bit off CM Punk in her."
ReplyDelete...that's just to easy. Hopefully someone else will make he obvious joke here...
He played a chicken shit heel who ran away from fights unless it was a 3 on one beat down and needed help to save his title against Owen Hart and Vader. I sit get this myth that Shawn was putting himself over everyone all the time like 2002-2005 Triple H.
ReplyDeleteGreetings from Diamond Cutter
ReplyDeleteThat's because if Vince wants you back he'll do anything to make it happen. It's unclear what the future will be with HHH gaining more and more power and how he'll react and what he'll be willing to do when business is in a slump.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that Vader match was weird because Vader's credibility was shot at that time and no-one would have cared if Shawn beat the guy clean like a jobber. Also Shawn had a match with Brooklyn Brawler at a MSG houseshow and Shawn needed all his DX buddies help to beat Steve fucking Lombardi.
ReplyDeleteI don't do it as often on here as apparently I'm breaking some sort of reviewer's code and not doing it properly or something like that.
ReplyDeleteI don't get Miller either, but by this point he's far better than what he was.
I loved the recent "WCW OMG" set talking the Junkyard Invitational with "who the hell thought this up" less heat than "who the hell LIT this up?" and just discussing what a totally stupid idea it was and how you nearly had guys literally crushed to death on live TV.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about boxing (Which would put me on par with whoever booked that match. Hey-oh!), but I know Mills Lane from Celebrity Deathmatch.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely miserable show. Needs to seriously be considered in getting a spot up there with GAB 91
ReplyDeleteThis would've been an incredible angle. Conversely, if Luger comes in as a face, then you book him against Rick Rude in a battle of physiques. A program with Rude helps Luger improve as a worker, and the Vince commentary on Rude/Luger matches would've been HILARIOUSLY full of unintentional innuendo.
ReplyDelete